Just ordered an Apple Watch (Series 8): Mental health uses?

[RagingHamster]

Whoa OP, Tommy, you've opened up one heck of a thread here and a beautiful can of worms. I hope you take pride in this, it's justified.

Reading all the stories here brings back a lot of memories and almost forgotten emotions. I struggled with BPD/Anxiety/Depression well into my 20s. Not to say that if anyone here is older and struggling now, that there's anything wrong with that. Everyone's road detours at different points.

Great idea getting an AW to monitor sleep and stimulate staying active. I've been looking into getting my first one too lately, which is how I stumbled upon your post.

Good on you for finding a walking group. Definitely worth considering doing something you're into with likeminded people. As you may have noticed on here, it can be more fulfilling/valuable than doing it on your own.
Might even sell some of them on getting an Apple Watch too and hanging out here, while you're at it.

As I read about your meds I immediately empathized, having taking almost all of the ones available on the doc's "roadmap". It was definitely a final test for me, to be able to reduce them and finally quit them altogether. It took me several attempts though and wasn't easy by any means.

A few tips from a non-professional-professional. If there's any chance of instability; stick with being medicated for now.
Yes, the side effects suck, some med's more so than others. So be willing to try many menu-options. This again, sucks, but once you find ones that alleviate things, yet have bearable side effects, you've struck gold.
I always tried to compare it to heart medication that helps prevent a cardiac event. Would I quit those if my life depended on them, despite their side effects?
Once you're ready to try quitting, do it under guidance. I convinced my doc to prescribe me the liquid forms, in order to taper down per milligram. Cold turkey is hell (SSRI withdrawal is such a horror show).
It's not worth trying unless you are stable. Quitting to avoid side effects doesn't give you that same "oomph" to quit, switching types will yield better results. Also important: no upcoming big, exciting life-changes (moving, new relationship/job) and *only* do it in early spring. Seasonal depression is real, even if it's not your main diagnosis, tapering off or recently being off-meds can trigger it in anyone.

Hang tough. From experience, it's absolutely possible to rise above this. The experience of having done so will shape and fuel you forever after.

Can't wait to hear how things go from here. You owe us your AW experience update now .

(Daaamn this got longer than I planned, sorry!)

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

Whoa OP, Tommy, you've opened up one heck of a thread here and a beautiful can of worms. I hope you take pride in this, it's justified.

Reading all the stories here brings back a lot of memories and almost forgotten emotions. I struggled with BPD/Anxiety/Depression well into my 20s. Not to say that if anyone here is older and struggling now, that there's anything wrong with that. Everyone's road detours at different points.

Great idea getting an AW to monitor sleep and stimulate staying active. I've been looking into getting my first one too lately, which is how I stumbled upon your post.

Good on you for finding a walking group. Definitely worth considering doing something you're into with likeminded people. As you may have noticed on here, it can be more fulfilling/valuable than doing it on your own.
Might even sell some of them on getting an Apple Watch too and hanging out here, while you're at it.

As I read about your meds I immediately empathized, having taking almost all of the ones available on the doc's "roadmap". It was definitely a final test for me, to be able to reduce them and finally quit them altogether. It took me several attempts though and wasn't easy by any means.

A few tips from a non-professional-professional. If there's any chance of instability; stick with being medicated for now.
Yes, the side effects suck, some med's more so than others. So be willing to try many menu-options. This again, sucks, but once you find ones that alleviate things, yet have bearable side effects, you've struck gold.
I always tried to compare it to heart medication that helps prevent a cardiac event. Would I quit those if my life depended on them, despite their side effects?
Once you're ready to try quitting, do it under guidance. I convinced my doc to prescribe me the liquid forms, in order to taper down per milligram. Cold turkey is hell (SSRI withdrawal is such a horror show).
It's not worth trying unless you are stable. Quitting to avoid side effects doesn't give you that same "oomph" to quit, switching types will yield better results. Also important: no upcoming big, exciting life-changes (moving, new relationship/job) and *only* do it in early spring. Seasonal depression is real, even if it's not your main diagnosis, tapering off or recently being off-meds can trigger it in anyone.

Hang tough. From experience, it's absolutely possible to rise above this. The experience of having done so will shape and fuel you forever after.

Can't wait to hear how things go from here. You owe us your AW experience update now .

(Daaamn this got longer than I planned, sorry!)

Hello, Hampster … you certainly owned your Raging title, in your post .

Thank you, for taking the time to share your own experience.

I have come to accept the I *need* the medication. The combination I am on, works for me. I’ve tried switching, but have come to learn that my current setup works. I’ll just have to watch my calorie intake (and/or get more active) to avoid weight gain.

Mirtazapine and Olanzapine; tried them?

I quit them cold turkey before and yes, withdrawal is .

Thank you, again, for your contribution. I hope other people in the thread have also gained from it.

Look after you .

 

[RagingHamster]

Hello, Hampster … you certainly owned your Raging title, in your post .

Thank you, for taking the time to share your own experience.

I have come to accept the I *need* the medication. The combination I am on, works for me. I’ve tried switching, but have come to learn that my current setup works. I’ll just have to watch my calorie intake (and/or get more active) to avoid weight gain.

Mirtazapine and Olanzapine; tried them?

I quit them cold turkey before and yes, withdrawal is .

Thank you, again, for your contribution. I hope other people in the thread have also gained from it.

Look after you .

Thanks for your kind words.

Re-reading my post now, I can see the tonality reflected of a "self" help book I got drawn into reading last night about being better able to support my partner in dealing with their bipolar. They're currently full on manic, so I guess that's my current detour. It'll even out and for now I'm mostly on damage control duty.

Tried both of those meds for a brief period before swapping them out. Almost all antipsychotics caused me extreme restlessness and I had more luck with SSRIs for depression. My final med was Lexapro, which I oddly sometimes miss taking, before realising it's just the effects of "life" that I'm feeling and that, like everything, it'll pass.

Weight gain is a bastard side effect. Mostly because it's threefold; your body holding onto more water, your metabolism being affected *and* increased appetite. The last 2 can be combatted. Like others mentioned, intermittent fasting is a good option (for me still). The medicated brain is hard of hearing in this sense, but can eventually be convinced to only be hungry within a certain time-window. The metabolism issue can be offset by activity (walking or running) and increasing muscle mass will up your capacity for dealing with the excess calories, both directly and by increasing resting metabolic rate overall. A gym is nice if you can, but with a small bench, 2 dumbbells and youtube a lot can be accomplished.

For surges of panic or OCD(zeal), have a look at vagus nerve stimulation. Mostly done through breathing techniques, but also by applying pressure on your closed eyes, using the palms of your hands. I find it fascinating that most ways to stimulate that nerve are things many of us do already when we're in high stress (sighing, humming, pressing on the eyes).
Pharmaceutical companies hate this trick .

There's amazing results being achieved by using psychedelic drug treatment for (completely resolving) OCD, but being medicated and/or psychosis prone would exclude one from the target demographic. The key however, is that these people describe the end result as no longer needing their OCD behavior. I'm convinced the brain can be taught this, with or without psychedelics.

I promise, this was my last lengthy post.. for today.

 

[Night Spring]

I promise, this was my last lengthy post.. for today.

No need to hold back on our account, that was quite informative! One post like this a day and I might end up being more informed than my partner, who's currently studying for a social work degree. ;p

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

Thanks for your kind words.

Re-reading my post now, I can see the tonality reflected of a "self" help book I got drawn into reading last night about being better able to support my partner in dealing with their bipolar. They're currently full on manic, so I guess that's my current detour. It'll even out and for now I'm mostly on damage control duty.

Tried both of those meds for a brief period before swapping them out. Almost all antipsychotics caused me extreme restlessness and I had more luck with SSRIs for depression. My final med was Lexapro, which I oddly sometimes miss taking, before realising it's just the effects of "life" that I'm feeling and that, like everything, it'll pass.

Weight gain is a bastard side effect. Mostly because it's threefold; your body holding onto more water, your metabolism being affected *and* increased appetite. The last 2 can be combatted. Like others mentioned, intermittent fasting is a good option (for me still). The medicated brain is hard of hearing in this sense, but can eventually be convinced to only be hungry within a certain time-window. The metabolism issue can be offset by activity (walking or running) and increasing muscle mass will up your capacity for dealing with the excess calories, both directly and by increasing resting metabolic rate overall. A gym is nice if you can, but with a small bench, 2 dumbbells and youtube a lot can be accomplished.

For surges of panic or OCD(zeal), have a look at vagus nerve stimulation. Mostly done through breathing techniques, but also by applying pressure on your closed eyes, using the palms of your hands. I find it fascinating that most ways to stimulate that nerve are things many of us do already when we're in high stress (sighing, humming, pressing on the eyes).
Pharmaceutical companies hate this trick .

There's amazing results being achieved by using psychedelic drug treatment for (completely resolving) OCD, but being medicated and/or psychosis prone would exclude one from the target demographic. The key however, is that these people describe the end result as no longer needing their OCD behavior. I'm convinced the brain can be taught this, with or without psychedelics.

I promise, this was my last lengthy post.. for today.

I like you.

I can tell you’ve “been there” from your words. Only one who has experienced, can express so convincingly. I can’t stand these so called “professionals” because all they’ve done is read a book, and attended lectures.

No life experience? Don’t try to advise me, then. I can run rings around all of them, with their self sense of superiority.

You’re right about retention. That’s the bloating. I dislike that the most, but I don’t want to go on about that, as I may talk myself out of taking the medication again.

Talking of taking the medication, I was thinking earlier how it’s starting to work, now. Almost three weeks, and I feel a sense of calm. The intrusive thoughts have calmed down, and I don’t feel so “sad.”

But I have EUPD, so that can change at the slightest trigger.

Better stop talking about this now: Onward, to positivity .

Thank you again, for taking the time to offer help.

 

[RagingHamster]

You're right about psychiatry. It's one of the youngest branches of medicine and I wish they could tone down their hubris to their level of knowledge. But their autograph gets us what we need, so a certain level of tolerance is in order.
Most of them respond to your willingness to improve, not your obedience to do exactly as they say. Though from our end, they're easily confused. I tried to remember that they didn't get into this profession just to be a dick, so I had some lenience when they seemingly were.

Like I mentioned, I sometimes miss being medicated. So "enjoy" while you need them and enjoy when you don't.

Wishing you all the best from "the other side".

 

[RagingHamster]

No need to hold back on our account, that was quite informative! One post like this a day and I might end up being more informed than my partner, who's currently studying for a social work degree. ;p

That's great to hear. In my opinion, social workers are the true heroes of mental health care. Personified safety nets and rope ladders. Not all patients will be in a place to say thanks, so I'd like to do so here on their behalf. And remind them that their own mental health should always take precedence. No point in having a spare tire, if it's also flat.

As a teacher, I think it's a waste to sit on and hoard experience. Its true value comes from sharing it.

To any health care professional reading this, please don't shy away from saying "I don't know". In German, "misery loves company" can also mean that shared misery is half the misery. Often, being heard is more helpful than a solution.

 

[joeyslaptop]

IMO, mental-health is more about practicing restraint and good habits. Everyone has inappropriate thoughts and urges that need to be restrained. We also have varying weaknesses and susceptibility at varying times and circumstances. If buying a watch helps fill that or strengthen that mental and emotional bank account, then something as simple as setting an alarm to trigger you to look at your watch and appreciate it and feel a sense of fulfillment and empowerment to be the best you, then awesome!

I bought mine because of concerns for my health. I know the value of pushing myself physically to accomplish something good, and the awesome effect that has on my mental and emotional health. I’m glad I have a watch that can help me track that stuff.

 

[Night Spring]

That's great to hear. In my opinion, social workers are the true heroes of mental health care. Personified safety nets and rope ladders. Not all patients will be in a place to say thanks, so I'd like to do so here on their behalf. And remind them that their own mental health should always take precedence. No point in having a spare tire, if it's also flat.

As a teacher, I think it's a waste to sit on and hoard experience. Its true value comes from sharing it.

To any health care professional reading this, please don't shy away from saying "I don't know". In German, "misery loves company" can also mean that shared misery is half the misery. Often, being heard is more helpful than a solution.

Not sure how much social workers can do here in the US, given all the problems in the system, but you are right about the need to take care of their own mental health, thanks for the reminder.

I've also heard expressions meaning shared sorrow is lessened, usually coupled with the sentiment that shared joy is multiplied. And I once had a professor who was famous for saying "I don't know" -- he was, of course, one of the best in his field.

 

[Night Spring]

The key however, is that these people describe the end result as no longer needing their OCD behavior. I'm convinced the brain can be taught this, with or without psychedelics.

I wonder if OCD is caused by some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain. I know when I'm tired I find it harder to let go of one of my semi-OCD hangups. Like I want to fold my clothes just so, and the more tired I am, the more I'll keep folding and re-folding and getting more tired until I'm yelling and screaming in frustration, but if I'm not tired, I can just say, oh it's a bit wrinkled, so what.

 

[KennyJr]

Make a list of the suggestions mentioned here. For instance"
. Mindfulness
. Medication tracking
. Sleep mode
. etc.
It looks like it will be a long list. Be good to yourself by selecting one item, master it, then go quietly on to the next. Otherwise, addressing all these ideas without a plan could become overwhelming, a situation that would likely have a negative effect on your mental health.

 

[RagingHamster]

I wonder if OCD is caused by some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain. I know when I'm tired I find it harder to let go of one of my semi-OCD hangups. Like I want to fold my clothes just so, and the more tired I am, the more I'll keep folding and re-folding and getting more tired until I'm yelling and screaming in frustration, but if I'm not tired, I can just say, oh it's a bit wrinkled, so what.

Sadly I'm not medically qualified, but even if I were, I'd say I don't know how OCD works exactly. Tiredness affects serotonin levels and serotonin plays a role in OCD. Your observation of fatigue exacerbating your symptoms is important despite not knowing exactly how it works, as you have a certain influence on tiredness and more so on your decision not to do certain things when tired. I know that if I were to attempt a task that might frustrate me, while being tired, there's a high probability of inciting a panic reaction. So I leave it for tomorrow, or deep breathe my way through it.

OCD apparently shows on brain scans. While interesting, it's not much of an explanation (yet). Many unknowns on this topic. Are you currently doing anything or medicating to help with the symptoms?
The brain gets set in its ways by re-using the same routes/shortcuts to process information. With more frequent use, little shortcuts and paths turn into highways and are chosen to be used again the next time by default. That's why, once a habit (or "disorder") has set, they become hard to break.
This is where psychedelics become interesting, as they seem to stimulate alternate routes being taken. Anyone who's enjoyed cannabis can tell you that experiences become more vivid to the point of feeling like it's the first time. I suspect the principle might be the same.

A more accessible way of circumventing or expanding the default pathways, is EMDR therapy. It's being used for OCD and might be worth a try. I have great experiences with it for, what used to be, my panic attacks. EMDR played a big part in resolving those.

Sorry for veering so far off-topic.

On-topic: This thread has convinced me I should really try out owning an Apple Watch. The S7 isn't that much cheaper here since the launch of the S8, so I'll probably go for the latter since I prefer buying directly at Apple. Off to the Apple Store to try out some case/band combinations!

 

[Violet_Antelope]

I wonder if OCD is caused by some kind of chemical imbalance in the brain. I know when I'm tired I find it harder to let go of one of my semi-OCD hangups. Like I want to fold my clothes just so, and the more tired I am, the more I'll keep folding and re-folding and getting more tired until I'm yelling and screaming in frustration, but if I'm not tired, I can just say, oh it's a bit wrinkled, so what.

I definitely know that for me being tired makes things much worse. And also OCD affects my sleep. It’s a vicious cycle that’s downright nasty sometimes

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

I definitely know that for me being tired makes things much worse. And also OCD affects my sleep. It’s a vicious cycle that’s downright nasty sometimes

I hate it when people say this, but I really do know how you feel.

 

[Night Spring]

Are you currently doing anything or medicating to help with the symptoms?

Oh, my tendency to OCD is nowhere serious, no need for medical intervention. It just took me a few episodes of yelling and crying to figure out how to avoid it, like you said, not doing things when tired, take deep breaths, have some tea and cake, etc. Learning zazen also helped greatly.

And I feel like the main topic of this thread is mental health, with a focus on using Apple watch as an aid. I first bought an Apple watch when it first came out, and it's helped me -- not in any dramatic way, but having it remind me to be more physically active does help. I do sometimes get OCD about filling up the stand bars, though, and get upset if I miss an hour, so I've taken to getting up and do steps in place at the start of every hour just to ensure I don't ever miss an hour.

 

[RagingHamster]

Just occurred to me that (mental) healthcare might not be equally accessible depending on where you are (this sucks big time). EMDR can be done at home too, though it's probably more effective with a therapist. They have more experience and we have a different kind of relationship with them.
There are even apps for doing it yourself, but it would work if you ask your partner or a friend so you can follow their fingers from left to right with your eyes. For OCD, I'd attempt this while fatigued and try to relive a situation when your symptoms peaked. Maybe start with less intense examples and work your way up.

Ok super on-topic now. The reason this thread's title drew me in is that I've been thinking of another way the Apple Watch could play a big (huge?) role in mental health.
As mentioned, my partner and I are currently going through their 3rd manic episode. Recently, I stumbled upon a study concluding that during mania there is a significant change in HRV(1) values. Since the Apple Watch can track this, I started wondering whether it has ever been tested for this purpose. It has! (2)
There's currently no app however that uses this information for giving mental health warnings and I don't think the AW does this natively either?
It would be a huge help to my partner, if they got an alert when their HRV values change (maybe combined with reduced average sleep). That way we could be on alert that a manic episode might unfold in the near future and recommend us to act.

It seems that body temperate can also be included to "detect" states of mania or depression(3). There's definitely potential here..

(1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2822123/
(2) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9494213/
(3) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7234481/

 

[Night Spring]

It would be a huge help to my partner, if they got an alert when their HRV values change (maybe combined with reduced average sleep). That way we could be on alert that a manic episode might unfold in the near future

I can see how that could be very helpful, and the technological elements that could enable this are there, or almost there. But I imagine it'd take a lot of research to roll out something like this, especially since it concerns health. Plus lots of red tape to get through, I'd think. Apple does encourage research into using its devices for health applications, see:

iOS - Research App

Introducing the Apple Research app. Now you can contribute to groundbreaking research studies simply by using your Apple Watch and iPhone.

www.apple.com

 

[TommyBG86]

Hi,
I have skimmed some of the responses here and would like to give you a few tips. First, I would encourage you to seek out a psychotherapist to actively support you. You wrote that you think they don't understand you because they haven't been through it themselves, but they don't need to because they are study-based. This means that over the years they have conducted many studies and analyzed why different people react differently to difficult fates and experiences.
What is very positive about you is that you have decided that you should do well. That is great.

What you can and should do for yourself is to get enough quality sleep. This has the highest priority.
Just think in terms of energy. What gives me energy and what takes it away?
You do that in relation to food, people and events.
You can not influence everything, but what you can, should be positive for you and to your advantage.

There has been a lot of talk here about meditation and mindfulness. Meditation and mindfulness is also super important and essential but unfortunately that doesn't always apply for everyone and the outcome is not always positive.
For example, if you have a high stress level, then it is very unproductive to meditate immediately. It would be appropriate to lower your stress level and then meditate.
But for this you have to recognize when I am very stressed and how do I recognize it myself despite so many thoughts in my head and then how do I bring myself down again?
There are some coping strategies like cold (chewing an ice cube), listening to loud music and everything that draws your attention and helps calming.
Especially if you have had to endure a lot of stress over many years, you must first learn where a healthy tolerance is that can be endured.

A professional psychotherapist can be a great help in all of this and I want to encourage you again at this point to seek help. It is certainly not easy to find someone who makes you feel comfortable right away, but there are many who really do a great job and can help you.

I wish you all the best

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

Hi,
I have skimmed some of the responses here and would like to give you a few tips. First, I would encourage you to seek out a psychotherapist to actively support you. You wrote that you think they don't understand you because they haven't been through it themselves, but they don't need to because they are study-based. This means that over the years they have conducted many studies and analyzed why different people react differently to difficult fates and experiences.
What is very positive about you is that you have decided that you should do well. That is great.

What you can and should do for yourself is to get enough quality sleep. This has the highest priority.
Just think in terms of energy. What gives me energy and what takes it away?
You do that in relation to food, people and events.
You can not influence everything, but what you can, should be positive for you and to your advantage.

There has been a lot of talk here about meditation and mindfulness. Meditation and mindfulness is also super important and essential but unfortunately that doesn't always apply for everyone and the outcome is not always positive.
For example, if you have a high stress level, then it is very unproductive to meditate immediately. It would be appropriate to lower your stress level and then meditate.
But for this you have to recognize when I am very stressed and how do I recognize it myself despite so many thoughts in my head and then how do I bring myself down again?
There are some coping strategies like cold (chewing an ice cube), listening to loud music and everything that draws your attention and helps calming.
Especially if you have had to endure a lot of stress over many years, you must first learn where a healthy tolerance is that can be endured.

A professional psychotherapist can be a great help in all of this and I want to encourage you again at this point to seek help. It is certainly not easy to find someone who makes you feel comfortable right away, but there are many who really do a great job and can help you.

I wish you all the best

Thank you for your advice.

Re counselling, I have been refused it because I am deemed too high risk.

I’m sure I would benefit from DBT, for my personality disorder (EUPD) and ERP for my anxiety disorder (OCD.)

However, the mental health “service” has done literally nothing to help me, apart from locking me up on a psych ward, following an overdose.

However, I have restarted the medication and I do feel a bit calmer. Having the that, the dark thoughts have returned again. I don’t have any plans or intention, but it’s “there” again, any the slightest thing could trigger me and push me over the edge.

Thank you again for your advice; it’s appreciated.

Look after yourself.

 

[spiderman0616]

As per the title.

Just came out of hospital, due to something I did because of my mental health.

Need to turn my life around, and thought the AW would help me to do so.

Apart from Apple Fitness, what other steps (no pun intended) do you think I could benefit from, re the Apple Watch?

Wishing you all well, and thanks in advance for any responses.

1. I have severe anxiety and find that the breathe reminders work really well to get me centered again.
2. I love the medication reminders for treating the above.
3. I like to leave my iPhone behind sometimes just to get away from the internet, so I love having the cellular model in order to stay connected and catch the important communications without feeling tempted to pull that phone back out.
4. By the time my first year wearing it was over, I had lost about 70 lbs.

Apple Watch is probably the most important thing I use every day other than maybe my glasses. I have worn one just about every day since they first launched.

EDIT: I almost forgot #5:

A few years ago, my dad had a "widowmaker" heart attack. He had a 99% blockage that had gone undetected and was in a coma for 2 or 3 days before he woke up. Because he's a healthy guy and still runs almost every day, he survived the heart attack with no damage to his brain or heart. But he did not own an Apple Watch at the time, and I kept thinking about how if he had not collapsed near a bunch of people, the Watch could have had the ambulance there.

Long story short: I am not a yearly watch upgrader, but the couple of times I've upgraded, I have enjoyed the peace of mind from having all the new sensors and features. I know a lot of that stuff doesn't add to the overall user experience, but what's important to me is all the stuff it's doing when I'm not thinking about it. When I'm just "wearing" it.

 

[Night Spring]

My SS Apple Watch arrives on Monday .

Is it here yet?

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

Is it here yet?

UPS has a delay, so should arrive today.

 

[The Cockney Rebel]

UPS is the worst courier I have ever known.

Not coming today.

 

[spiderman0616]

UPS is the worst courier I have ever known.

Not coming today.

It never fails when I'm anxiously awaiting something new--either the carrier has a flat out delay to the next day or they show up at like 7 pm after I've been on pins and needles all day long. This year it happened with my AirPods Pro due to a mechanical breakdown.

 

[Night Spring]

UPS is the worst courier I have ever known.

Not coming today.

Does this happen a lot in the UK? I can't remember ever having a package not get delivered on the delivery date, whether it's UPS, FedEx, or US Postal Service. I've missed deliveries and had problems setting up redeliveries, but the initial attempt was always made on the promised date.