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Just purchased an Envy to compare
- Thread starter Opstech
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I did not say all Apple customers, I just pointed out most of them.
I merely suggest that most Apple customers don't spec compare with other computers. If they did, they wouldn't be posting record computer sales at this point. If Apple was truly overpriced, they would not sell.
Comparisons are usually done on a user experience level, something a list of specifications would fail to provide a hint of.
I would agree with you. Most Mac users I know don't compare specs with other PCs. They really like the experience and the looks of the computers.
However, I find that people on this forum, who are computer savvy, pay attention to specs and new technology. Which is cool. I fall between both groups.
I like new technology, but I won't wait for it too long. I get the urge to buy a new computer every time Apple puts one out. However, I don't. I have a March 2008 Blackbook and a July 2009 15" MBP. I am beginning to use the Blackbook less and less. It's still a good laptop, and in great shape. However, it just feels old.
I definitely don't base my life on specs as Vant declared.
However, as you state, I expect to get my money's worth, and I would expect CURRENT MBP buyers to not feel they're getting their money's worth... big difference!
My comparison point was EXACTLY as you stated. The MBP isn't a very good value. If one considers only OS X and customer service as the game changers, one is paying one heck of a gigantic "APPLE TAX!" Think about what the money will buy on the PC side, and Windows 7 is incredible on solid hardware components. I still agree Apple provides a better total experience, but the component makeup differences are currently ridiculous especially for a computer stamped "PRO."
Now going back to my MBA comparison, the MBA provides the entire "experience" I want and is still within reason of spec levels and performance within the ultraportable market. However, if the MBA doesn't get more RAM, it will fall out of relevance within the ultraportable market... OS X isn't a big enough game changer to allow Apple to not update it to at least mid-range of component makeup. In time, the MBA will fall out of relevance if it's not updated... just as I feel the MBP has currently experienced.
I agree OS X is great, but I don't want to buy a high-priced product filled with low-end components... and currently the MBP is exactly that. I love Apple computers, but Apple really needs to do something about its current MBP lineup as they're grossly inferior to competitive computers.
I guess you'll never consider a Wii then? Please tell me how Nintendo is surviving in this current market.
I have never owned or seen a Wii, but I think they're simply targetting a very different audience than the other consoles - the casual (and often female) gamer.
Apple, however, is targetting much the same audience as its competitors with almost identical hardware - and if Apple's hardware lags behind as severely as it does right now, people are going to get a little uncomfortable.
Grossly inferior? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Most reviews I look at, still rank the MBP as one of the best laptops available. The MBs and MBPs continue to sell because the vast majority of consumers don't care about some of these specs people on this board are craving. In the last week 4 people from my job got Macs..Even after I told them an upgrade was coming.
Their reply.... They couldn't care about the upgrade. They liked the computer, and decided to buy it. None of them have regrets. They absolutely love the experience.
not every company has updated all their computer lineups, so I do not really see your point. Sony Z series not until march. Lenovo updated the T410, T510, and W510, but nothing else and dropped their W700 series. HP has not updated all their Elitebooks, nor has Dell updated all their Precisions, Studio XPSs or Latitudes.
The craptatsic Envy and a bunch of cheap plastic laptops are your argument which IMO are not comparable products to the MBPs.
I just want to know if you are going to feel the same after the update, cause currently it seems you are upset they are not discounting the older hardware.
Scottsdale - I agree with most about what you are saying. Apple is obviously attempting to serve a much larger audience than just their hardcore users. Unfortunately that means the Pro name doesn't equate to what it used to be. I do disagree with the whole Apple tax issue. If you truly want to make a realistic comparison then go pick a top of the line Windows machine and build it out to match the current MBP line. You will see the prices are very similar if not more expensive for the PC. Sure you could grab a hunk of junk that is spec'd to all hell but that really wouldn't be a good comparison.
I think Apple's options are still good now even though the C2D is almost obsolete. That doesn't mean there won't be updated models from other manufacturers that still use the same chip. The difference between Arrandale and a C2D won't be as noticeable but it will be nice when they finally hit the MBP. From what I am reading here, Sandy Bridge is where it's at come later this year.
the Wii was doing OK until the PS3 slim came out. now sales have dropped. Only reason it was doing OK was the cheaper price and the fact that you can exercise with it.
I wouldn't have bought my MBP if the specs sucked. The only reason why I bought it back then is because it is the lightest, slimmest, and one of the smallest notebooks with a 8600M GT. I understand that I'm a minority, but just because I'm part of the minority doesn't mean that I don't exist. The money I paid for my MBP is worth every bit as much the money you paid for yours.
how is HP better at returns than Apple? looking at my first Mac later this year, but reading the 27" iMac stories it seems like Apple is very good with returns.
i have an HP laptop and work with HP servers at work. HP Server support is good. Laptop and desktop support is horrible for a major problem like LCD
do you like it?
i priced it out and read a thread at notebookreviews.com and it doesn't make me want to buy one even if it's cheaper. probably wait for a MBP refresh no matter how long it takes
I can't speak about HP corporate laptops, but I can about Dell's. The Dell business laptops suck. I have been working on one for the last 10 years. I bought my wife one about 5-6 years ago. They are heavy, bulky, slow, and have a tendency to crash. I bought my wife the 13" MBP last July, and she loves it. Her first Mac. She is not computer savvy. However, she said she will never use another Windows-based pc again.
There is nothing "pro" about the Dell laptops.
The Gizmodo review (link below) basically describes the overall feel/quality of the Envy as Cheap. When I use a MBP, I don't get the feeling of cheap.
http://gizmodo.com/5413076/hp-envy-15+inch-review
http://gizmodo.com/5413076/hp-envy-15+inch-review
i have a dell inspiron 6000 from 6 years ago as well and it's also bulky. the new ones are as small as MBP's and as light.
We are sorry to hear you are the one who uses macbooks for youtube videos and college papers, but when it is about Macbook high end laptops, and this is what the quoted guy talked about, we want to have the high end.
You can get a 1990s laptop to watch youtube videos, but professionals want 1gb dedicated momery, a quad core cpu.
I really dont care about mac having a battery at all! Who are those people who use battery constanty? Anywhere I go, there is an outlet. In Wendy's, Subway, College, Home, Jack in a Box.
Not here yet. Can not wait for it to get here. I'm excited to see the difference. It says Friday delivery on UPS tracking.
And what exactly is "more than hardware?"
The nice design, the battery, the display, the surface, whatever the thing it is, it is all hardware.
Now, if you say it is because of Software, you will only defeat yourself in this conversation.
Software never runs great on bad hardware. And currently, the updated software demands far more than what the current line.
update
so after using my parents macbook pro and my envy i got it price matched at 1799 canadian and the pro was 2199(2.66) here are the specs of the envy
Intel Core i7-720QM 1.6
6gb ddr3 ram
500gb 7200rpm
ati 5830
15 cells of battery 6 cell plus 9 cell slice
build quality is excellent on par with the mac, mine doesnt feel cheap at all but id still give the edge to apple because its the original
screen WOW, the envy at 1080p destroys the macbook pro, at its lowest brightness its equivelent to the pro at 3-4 notches, best laptop screen ive ever used and i really hope apple goes 16:9 the form factor is so much sleeker
performance well in everything the hp feels much faster, the i7 is an amazing processor
heating- some review units have been getting hot, note that this were rev 1, mines a rev 2 and it has no cooling issues, it does get mildly hot tho but hp has done a good job on cooling
keyboard- its great no backlight but they both feel identical no flex at all.
battery. heres where the pro shines but this is due to the i7 and the gpu, on the 6 cell i get 3 hours and with 15 cells i get around 6 hours, the pro gets 7 hours, here brightness is at half and office with web browsing.
Speakers- hp destroys although not as loud as the pro the sound is so much richer and has less distortion
Im glad i went with the envy, its the best laptop ive ever had and i strongly reccomend it those willing to use windows 7. Also i find it rather odd that my laptop has better specs than the 27 inch imac
so after using my parents macbook pro and my envy i got it price matched at 1799 canadian and the pro was 2199(2.66) here are the specs of the envy
Intel Core i7-720QM 1.6
6gb ddr3 ram
500gb 7200rpm
ati 5830
15 cells of battery 6 cell plus 9 cell slice
build quality is excellent on par with the mac, mine doesnt feel cheap at all but id still give the edge to apple because its the original
screen WOW, the envy at 1080p destroys the macbook pro, at its lowest brightness its equivelent to the pro at 3-4 notches, best laptop screen ive ever used and i really hope apple goes 16:9 the form factor is so much sleeker
performance well in everything the hp feels much faster, the i7 is an amazing processor
heating- some review units have been getting hot, note that this were rev 1, mines a rev 2 and it has no cooling issues, it does get mildly hot tho but hp has done a good job on cooling
keyboard- its great no backlight but they both feel identical no flex at all.
battery. heres where the pro shines but this is due to the i7 and the gpu, on the 6 cell i get 3 hours and with 15 cells i get around 6 hours, the pro gets 7 hours, here brightness is at half and office with web browsing.
Speakers- hp destroys although not as loud as the pro the sound is so much richer and has less distortion
Im glad i went with the envy, its the best laptop ive ever had and i strongly reccomend it those willing to use windows 7. Also i find it rather odd that my laptop has better specs than the 27 inch imac
Have you listened to them? They're good for laptop speakers but not anything amazing.
Are they better than MacBook Pro speakers? Hmm... hard to say. If they are, it's not by much and not anything to be envious about.
I have heard them. What do you expect out of laptop speakers? They have a richer fuller sound than the macbook pros.