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Justice Department Wants Apple to Extract Data From 12 Other iPhones

lkrupp said:
Back to Android. There are only two reasons we aren’t seeing anything about Android phones...

1. Google is cooperating with the government contrary to their expressed support for Apple.

2. Android phones are trivial to break into and no court order is needed.
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Since this story is about an Apple product.....:rolleyes:
 
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It will be interesting to see if the facts about other cases of the FBI wanting data extraction on iPhones hits the press. People are making judgement calls on half of the story and like so many things related to the government, things are not always as they appear. I'm all for protection of society, but if doing so places more power in the hands of the government (or the few), then it's not a society worth protecting.
 
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Slick Billy Bill Gates is just another rich guy who now is viewing, the governments writing on his bathrooms door. He is just another government lacky, plain and simple a guy who is looking out for himself and sweet Microsoft.
 
lchlch said:
Note: the backdoor the fbi wants is without the mandatory 80ms delay.

Assuming a 8 character password it would be 218 trillion combinations. With a super computer it wouldn't take that long to try all combinations.
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The 80 ms delay cannot be overcome. That is a hardware minimation. They want the delay that increases up to 1 hour between attempts removed.
 
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Aldaris said:
I believe Apple requested a seal on this legal request/government coercion. It was the government agencies that did not honor that request and Apple/Tim responded publically before everyone started going nuts. As we can obviously see here in this thread.
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Rigby said:
It's the DoJ that first made it public. Initially I thought it was a well intentioned if misguided move. But now it's looking more and more like a well prepared, deliberate strategy. Since congress wasn't willing to give them their backdoors, they are now trying to use public opinion against Apple in order to make an example of them.
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Thanks for correcting this. I was definitely under a different impression with Tim starting this discussion with the posting on Apples site.
 
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vertsix said:
May as well unlock all iPhones.

Stay strong, Apple.
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HEADLINE FOR APPLE MARCH EVENT!!!
Apple announces new endless backup storage solution! In a new partnership with anonymous tech startup agency, all Apple devices will automatically backup all your data to what is being balled the freaking big iCloud or FBiCloud. Apple and Freaking Big is giving Google a run for their money! There will never be any storage limits and all iPhones, iPads, iPods, Macs, and connected PC's with iCloud will be backed up every minute! So you never have to worry about your data being lost! Oh and it's also encrypted for you! And you can trust that the good folks at Freaking Big will honor your trust and not ever look at any of your personal data. This is going to be huge!

(Seriously would you like this idea?)
[doublepost=1456244585][/doublepost]
JGRE said:
These people are really short sited and stupid. What if the justice department of another country, let’s say Russia, would request Apple to unlock iPhone, from say a captured US spy.....
Point is that Apple is a multinational organisation who will one's it starts unlocking iPhones might get court orders like this from everywhere. From US perspective, it might look like a good idea, but what from other perspectives? The US is not the world.
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Absolutely! We really live in an age where this is the reality, that companies pretty seamlessly have world wide clients, an increasingly governments meddle for an upper hand in economics or other more nefarious dealings. It's not good business to be in the hacking/cracking/anti-security business here. No one wins. The US government its citizens or any other governments or people's.
 
JGRE said:
These people are really short sited and stupid. What if the justice department of another country, let’s say Russia, would request Apple to unlock iPhone, from say a captured US spy.....
Point is that Apple is a multinational organisation who will one's it starts unlocking iPhones might get court orders like this from everywhere. From US perspective, it might look like a good idea, but what from other perspectives? The US is not the world.
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Explain how how foreign country is going to have their court or the US court, force this on an American company?
 
So much for this being about a single phone.......of course we all knew that already, right?
 
doelcm82 said:
The iPhone in question is already open for the FBI to search through it. The only thing in the way is the passcode. They are free to guess at the passcode, but the after a few wrong guesses, the phone will not accept any new passcode for a period of time. More wrong guesses and the delay keeps getting longer. The FBI is just wanting Apple to make it easy.

If you have a safe for your valuables and sensitive documents and the police have a warrant, they need to be able to get past your lock. The precedent being set here is that the safe manufacturer has to design in a way that the police get into it. No matter how "secure" they tell you the safe is (or the door to your house), it has to have a way for authorities to get through it relatively easily.

That's the precedent being set.
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If it was "open", they wouldn't be asking for this :rolleyes:
 
nunes013 said:
Okay so everyone who said this would be a one time deal...it's your turn. I'm grabbing popcorn because this got a whole lot more interesting.
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Oh you know it was never going to be a one time thing otherwise there wouldn't have been public.

Here's where I'd draw the line. Every phone that a law enforcement person wishes to unlock, must be sent to Apple in the exact same way you would handle evidence or an organ transplant. So that means the LEO has to physically transport the phone to California, by car (since airplane and train's would take the phone out of the LEO's chain of custody) that LEO must enter the secret room at Apple where they upload "special firmware" to the device that does what the FBI wants, that version of the firmware never leaves the room, and never pushed to phones, it only exists in that room. Once unlocked by Apple, the device's password is disabled to allow LEO access to it, and the firmware is downgraded back to the version that was on the device before.

This is overly convoluted, but any such tool has to not only be kept secret, but must never leave Apple with any backdoor in it. This solution is considered more acceptable because even if Apple has the means to do this, it's not being installed on all devices, and isn't remaining on the device to discover how to compromise the security of the device.

That said, it's still better for Apple to refuse to even make such a tool/firmware, because what will happen is that people will just refuse to update the firmware past the current version, and LEO's could force an upgrade to this "backdoor" version... and so could any badguys.
 
jmgregory1 said:
It will be interesting to see if the facts about other cases of the FBI wanting data extraction on iPhones hits the press. People are making judgement calls on half of the story and like so many things related to the government, things are not always as they appear. I'm all for protection of society, but if doing so places more power in the hands of the government (or the few), then it's not a society worth protecting.
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I haven't seen much in the way of the press reporting more then half the story. I haven't seen any mainstream news (tv, newspaper) report mention that the personal phones were destroyed and the hard drive from the computer was removed. Many seem to believe that Apple can simply give the FBI the passcode and that would be the end of it. I also haven't seen anything about how at least one of the victims parents are backing Apple.

Most have no clue what this is really about and are making assumptions based on the tiny amount they're given. I've even seen people think that the whole thing about the icloud password being changed was the passcode on the phone being changed and that apple should just turn over the new passcode.

Of course there's still a lot we aren't told so none of us really have the full story (and probably never will), but there's still a lot more information out there then I've seen mainstream reporting.
 
Aldaris said:
Doesn't matter whether it's a D or an R they are both at fault here, supporting the NSA and mass surveillance, both calling for "security over privacy". The politics and optics from both are disgraceful here.
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Not my point. On it's face it's not a partisan issue. And the debate here has largely stayed that way because there is a D in the WH. There are people in both parties for and against, even presidential candidates.

My point is that if there was a R in the WH right now the focus here would be that the R's WH via the FBI is trying to diminish civil liberties by forcing a company to build a backdoor. Instead the debate is on a lower level and simply Apple vs FBI. The Administration hasn't really be injected into the debate so its remained a policy debate vs a partisan one.

Compare that to the NSA controversies under Bush though it continues under Obama. Right or wrong, it was never ending political fodder used to bludgeon Bush. That debate quieted though even as the NSA built a huge data center in UT in the Obama years. You don't see too many headlines proclaiming Obama is "spying" on U.S. citizens like you did w/ Bush. But that doesn't mean the NSA is still doing now what was doing in the early & mid 00's.
 
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tkatz said:
I haven't seen much in the way of the press reporting more then half the story. I haven't seen any mainstream news (tv, newspaper) report mention that the personal phones were destroyed and the hard drive from the computer was removed. Many seem to believe that Apple can simply give the FBI the passcode and that would be the end of it. I also haven't seen anything about how at least one of the victims parents are backing Apple.

Most have no clue what this is really about and are making assumptions based on the tiny amount they're given. I've even seen people think that the whole thing about the icloud password being changed was the passcode on the phone being changed and that apple should just turn over the new passcode.

Of course there's still a lot we aren't told so none of us really have the full story (and probably never will), but there's still a lot more information out there then I've seen mainstream reporting.
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This morning CBS was talking to the Attorney who is defending Apple, the CBS bunch just attacked him and Apple. Just kept driving the need to hack the Apple iPhone for national security.
No matter what he said they just kept saying he was wrong.
 
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