Justice Department Wants Apple to Extract Data From 12 Other iPhones

[dk001]

U know what we should do! We should publish the Terrorist Watch list and stop people on the list from buying cellphones...why not? the right to use an airplane no not guaranteed by the US Constitution, either is buying a Cellphone.

NO MORE CELL PHONES FOR TERRORISTS!*I'm joking, this will never work.

Do you have any idea how people get on that list? What it takes get a name off if incorrect?
btw - it's actually a "watch list" and contains far more than "terrorism" suspects.

 

[Jsameds]

This whole thing is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

 

[carrrrrlos]

The FBI pursuing Apple to find something, anything, on the iPhone, leads me to believe they have nothing so far.

Their lack of knowledge prior to the terrorist incident will only be amplified during the trials ahead. Apple will somehow be responsible for their incompetence.

 

[ColdShadow]

I didn't know Bill Gates also backed FBI on this,I've lost any respect I had for him (due to his past and his charity works) now.
I will ditch my One Drive account and already got rid of my Xbox One.I don't want anything associated with his name and his (former) company.

This bullying authority nonsense culture must end.
it's clear the whole terrorist/criminal phone thing is just an excuse to force Apple let them breach peoples privacy and access their personal data.

 

[mr.steevo]

Then Apple should do just that. Engage its lawyers and fight the court order. But they decided to drag that out into the public. Now we are discussing their opinion.

I seem to remember reading about this story before Apple and Tim Cook responded to the court order.

Anyway, I find it interesting that the 12 iApostles story has come out now. Is court law in the U.S. based on a public opinion poll? Bring on the Holy War? And BTW too bad for the rest of the planet?

Will other countries get their appeal in court too?

 

[dk001]

Precedent. The most over used word this month and most people seem to not know what it means.

If the police get a search warrant to search a criminal's house, how does that lead to everyone's house being open for the police to look through? Cause Timmy said it would lead to a precedent?

precedent
n
1. (Law) law a judicial decision that serves as an authority for deciding a later case
2. an example or instance used to justify later similar occurrences
adj
preceding

As this would be a new version of the writ powers that forces a company to build something new (something that the writ has never done before) and would be used to for other similar cases as a point, I think the definition as used fits well.

 

[Rigby]

Reading a LOT of comments on here and I think the vast majority of you have no clue what you are talking about. If you are that worried about the FBI getting access to your phone in the event that they do create their "special version" of iOS for the San Bernadino case, just use a strong password on the phone. It's easy to brute force a numeric 4 or 6-digit pin unlock. But iOS supports alphanumeric passwords now...use a strong one and there is zero chance anybody ever gets into your phone (at least for the forseeable future). Nobody is creating a backdoor into your phone.

This is a bit naive. What they are asking Apple to do is deliberately weakening the phone's security. If this goes through, who is to say that they won't demand more modifications that will weaken it in case of stronger passcodes too? For example, they could demand that Apple use a weak random number generator that would drastically reduce the search space and make stronger passcodes brute-forcable as well (google "Dual_EC_DRBG" if you think that's outlandish).

 

[budselectjr]

Across the country there are around 150 or so similar cases so 12 is low.

 

[digitalcuriosity]

Why does slick billy old Microsoft bill Gates wants Apple to comply with the FBIs demands? could it be he is now a government lacky? Or does he feel it's just the right thing to do? give us a break Gumboy Gates just sit down and go save other countries also SHUTUP.....

 

[macfacts]

If I was a defense attorney representing a person accused of wrongdoing, and this type of "back door" iPhone data was being used by the prosecutor, I would ask in discovery for a detailed, exacting description of how The information was obtained by Apple. I would probably want to do a discovery deposition of each of the technicians that were involved in crafting the software that unlocked the phone. I would probably also want them to produce the code to have my own forensic experts examine it. The cat is out of the bag then

And one of those steps in the description you would get is that the backdoor software is 1) hard coded to your client's iPhone ID and 2) digitally signed by Apple with a signing key only Apple has.

So even if the description of how the backdoor is made, no one can do anything with it because they can't sign it. If it can't be signed, it can't be installed on a stock iPhone (one that is not jailbroken).

These digital signiture are also what Apple uses for apps in the app store. You can't install an app your friend bought.

 

[street.cory]

MS has been dead quiet over this, but it's been guessed that MS are already in the NSA's back pocket.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/23/bill-gates-apple-sides-fbi/

 

[lchlch]

And one of those steps in the description you would get is that the backdoor software is 1) hard coded to your client's iPhone ID and 2) digitally signed by Apple with a signing key only Apple has.

So even if the description of how the backdoor is made, no one can do anything with it because they can't sign it. If it can't be signed, it can't be installed on a stock iPhone (one that is not jailbroken).

These digital signiture are also what Apple uses for apps in the app store. You can't install an app your friend bought.

Just theoretical question. Is it possible to transplant the iPhone ID to another phone?

 

[bingeciren]

For fascist governments, terrorism is such a handy excuse to exert more power and restrict freedom.

Next they will try to make any encryption illegal because it is possible to further encrypt any information within a phone, a computer or any electronic storage device. While they are at it, they would also wish to make it illegal to protect the contents of any document in a way that the document self destructs within a set number of failed attempts to open it.

Unfortunately, the net loser in this game will always be the innocent.

 

[Merode]

America

Apple devices are owned not only by Americans. Why should US Government have backdoor to my phone?

If Apple does what FBI requires of them, it's going to be PR cataclysm that is going to hurt Apple a lot (of money).

 

[naeS1Sean]

Please Apple. Please be strong and stand up for us all.

 

[jmoore5196]

Imagine that.

And to the Mods, who will no doubt cite me for a two-word post: Under certain circumstances, "Imagine that" is a remark of great import. This is one such circumstance.

 

[Rigby]

Note: the backdoor the fbi wants is without the mandatory 80ms delay.

The often mentioned 80ms is not the "mandatory delay" that they want to have removed. It's just how long it takes a phone with a certain CPU to compute a key from a passcode due to the algorithm that Apple uses (which is deliberately designed to make the hash function hard to compute). So this delay cannot be removed.

Assuming a 8 character password it would be 218 trillion combinations. With a super computer it wouldn't take that long to try all combinations.

With a well designed hash function with many rounds it takes many years to brute-force a good 8-character password even with the fastest super computer.

 

[npmacuser5]

New iPhone "Mission Impossible Case", your phone will self destruct in 12 seconds, Pre-Order today. Point, close one door bad folks will just open another.

 

[Aldaris]

So no precedent is trying to be established. Right. Got it. This is just gonna have to move through the courts. It's an important debate, just glad there is a D in the WH b/c if this was happening with an R it would have a completely different texture and many people would become completely unhinged over politics, not policy.

Doesn't matter whether it's a D or an R they are both at fault here, supporting the NSA and mass surveillance, both calling for "security over privacy". The politics and optics from both are disgraceful here.

 

[digitalcuriosity]

Bill Gates thinks Apple should comply with the FBIs demands. I wonder why?

 

[Aldaris]

Then Apple should do just that. Engage its lawyers and fight the court order. But they decided to drag that out into the public. Now we are discussing their opinion.
:

I believe Apple requested a seal on this legal request/government coercion. It was the government agencies that did not honor that request and Apple/Tim responded publically before everyone started going nuts. As we can obviously see here in this thread.

 

[furi0usbee]

Hey, now Apple finally has something productive for their employees in Ireland.... help the US government crack iPhone encryption! See, I knew Apple could find something useful for the folks in Ireland to work on!!!!

Seriously though, Apple needs to fight this until the end. The light at the end of the tunnel is banning all encryption from devices sold in the USA. That's where this thing could end up. So Apple must fight this for all of us.
[doublepost=1456243376][/doublepost]

Bill Gates thinks Apple should comply with the FBIs demands. I wonder why?

Didn't Bill already give the FBI access to Skype's "encryption?"

 

[jonnysods]

"we don't want to set a precedent" my foot!

 

[Rigby]

Then Apple should do just that. Engage its lawyers and fight the court order. But they decided to drag that out into the public. Now we are discussing their opinion.

It's the DoJ that first made it public. Initially I thought it was a well intentioned if misguided move. But now it's looking more and more like a well prepared, deliberate strategy. Since congress wasn't willing to give them their backdoors, they are now trying to use public opinion against Apple in order to make an example of them.

 

[cableguy84]

Give them an inch , and they will take a mile.