Justice Department Wants Apple to Extract Data From 12 Other iPhones

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. MikhailT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    #101
    That's actually the reason Apple should show that it places an unreasonable burden on their part, they should show the courts the other 12 cases. That's specifically why companies and private citizens are not forced to do the work of the government and have the rights to reject such orders.

    Except that's not related to the case and other 12 cases as well. The FBI is not asking for Apple's encryption key or the passcode. The FBI is asking Apple for a firmware update signed by Apple that removes the delay per incorrect passcode and allows for the automated PIN/passcode submission, to let them brute force the phone at a rapid pace.

    The iPhone 5C does not have a Secure Enclave to verify the firmware update that does ask for the passcode first like in iPhone 5S and above.

    And yes, you can bet that Apple is working their ass off to encrypt more of their data and eventually, disable DFU as well.


    No, he didn't. The media twisted his words and reasoning into making it seem that he sides with the FBI. All of the more reasons why we can't trust both the government and the media, it's all misdirections.
     
  2. lchlch macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    #102
    Yes. But it's also an artificial delay.

    I remember for one of the iOS versions there was no 80ms delay. It was patched in much later. Forgive me but I can't name the OS version from the top of my head.
     
  3. APPLENEWBIE macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    The high desert, USA
    #103
    If I was a defense attorney representing a person accused of wrongdoing, and this type of "back door" iPhone data was being used by the prosecutor, I would ask in discovery for a detailed, exacting description of how The information was obtained by Apple. I would probably want to do a discovery deposition of each of the technicians that were involved in crafting the software that unlocked the phone. I would probably also want them to produce the code to have my own forensic experts examine it. The cat is out of the bag then
     
  4. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #104
    You haven't been paying attention. There is obviously the fact, just demonstrated, that if you give an FBI agent your hand, you better count your fingers afterwards. The problem is that if Apple breaks iPhone security then it is broken. It's like a locksmith selling a particularly strong door to millions of people who are afraid of burglars, and the FBI forces him to develop the tools to open the door because they have a search warrant, and suddenly burglars can open all these supposedly safe doors.

    And would you mind changing your username, because it is clearly not appropriate.
     
  5. Carlanga macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    #105
    The big corporations and billionaires of course.
     
  6. lchlch macrumors 6502a

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    Mar 12, 2015
    #106
    They are doing just that. The hearing related to the order is set for 26.02.2016.
     
  7. Serban Suspended

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    #107
    Batman v Superman DAWN OF JUSTICE
     
  8. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    sitting on a beach watching a DC simulation ...
    #108
    CbYhlCmWIAE_KD4.png
     
  9. thefredelement macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

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    New York
    #109
    I remember back in the good ole days when they solved crimes by going out and doing things.
     
  10. lchlch macrumors 6502a

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    #110
    So the easy for Apple is to make the 80ms delay hardware based on the next iPhone. Than there's nothing anyone can really do about it.
     
  11. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #111
    Unless of course he changed the settings after the last backup. ;)
     
  12. JGRE macrumors 65816

    JGRE

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    #112
    These people are really short sited and stupid. What if the justice department of another country, let’s say Russia, would request Apple to unlock iPhone, from say a captured US spy.....
    Point is that Apple is a multinational organisation who will one's it starts unlocking iPhones might get court orders like this from everywhere. From US perspective, it might look like a good idea, but what from other perspectives? The US is not the world.
     
  13. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #113
    Was this terrorism?
    How about using any one of the other "topics" the FBI and other agencies have tried as an excuse?
     
  14. DaveMcM76 macrumors regular

    DaveMcM76

    Joined:
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    Location:
    UK
    #114
    They've already complied with the original court order to hand over any iCloud backups for the phone in question but the latest one they had was about a month before the attack, hence the FBI now want access to the phone to see what information has changed since the last backup.

    However given that this is a work issued phone, and the reported thoroughness with which their personal phones and laptop hard drives were destroyed before the attack, the likelihood of this phone containing any pertinent information is probably somewhere around zero squared.
     
  15. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #115
    A delay like that is standard security practice. Some key gets encrypted, but not once, but often enough so it takes 80ms. On an iPhone 6s with a faster processor it will be encrypted more often. And trying to decrypt it takes exactly the same 80ms.
     
  16. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #116
    Not sure of all of them but one was for access to the iPhone of a drug dealer who accepted a plea bargain. Access to the device was not part of the deal.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 23, 2016 ---
    That is why they are asking for a customized OS version without the security features :eek:
     
  17. Popeye206 macrumors 68040

    Popeye206

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    NE PA USA
    #117
    FBI gets backdoor.
    Terrorist exploit backdoor.
    FBI wants backdoor closed.
     
  18. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

    Joined:
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    #118
    The FBI decided to "drag that out into the public." Apple asked for this request to be conducted under seal.
     
  19. MVallee macrumors 6502a

    MVallee

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    Ontario, Canada
    #119
    "Suspected" being the key word here. The government shouldn't have the power to search through all of your data to see if you have committed any crimes.
     
  20. sbailey4 macrumors 68040

    sbailey4

    Joined:
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    Location:
    USA
    #120
    I say just ban any non-touchID phones then chop off the criminals fingers to unlock the device if they don't comply with a request to enter their passcode when asked. Apple doesn't need to create anything then :)
     
  21. mytdave macrumors 6502a

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    #121
    And there's the other shoe. Does this not prove Tim's point? I'd say so, 100%.
     
  22. doelcm82 macrumors 68040

    doelcm82

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Florida, USA
    #122
    The iPhone in question is already open for the FBI to search through it. The only thing in the way is the passcode. They are free to guess at the passcode, but the after a few wrong guesses, the phone will not accept any new passcode for a period of time. More wrong guesses and the delay keeps getting longer. The FBI is just wanting Apple to make it easy.

    If you have a safe for your valuables and sensitive documents and the police have a warrant, they need to be able to get past your lock. The precedent being set here is that the safe manufacturer has to design in a way that the police get into it. No matter how "secure" they tell you the safe is (or the door to your house), it has to have a way for authorities to get through it relatively easily.

    That's the precedent being set.
     
  23. Rhonindk, Feb 23, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016

    Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #123
    Suspect poll.
    • Do you listen to CNN news? If yes continue....
    • Is CNN News your primary news source? If yes continue....
    • Would you be willing to take our quick little poll? If yes continue....
    • Fill out your demographic info please ....
    Now use this to complete, filter and publish your poll results....

    Not saying this is how this poll was done. Polls are easily manipulated and can have predetermined / influenced outcomes.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 23, 2016 ---
    I think they know what they are trying to achieve; all access shopping on any smart device, encrypted or not. ;)
     
  24. CmdrLaForge macrumors 601

    CmdrLaForge

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    around the world
    #124
    Alright. Misconception on my side. I thought it startet with Apples posting on their site.
     
  25. lchlch macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2015
    #125
    I think it's reasonable to assume that the key only get encrypted a few times. Because it's waste of cpu cycles and it's not scalable. As CPUs get faster they would do even more encryption which waste power.

    The smarter way to go about it is just to put in an artificial delay.
     

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