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I made the mistake of peeking at this thread because I thought people would be happy for a change. Maybe a guarded happy, but definitely not doubling down on their gripes.

Now I've got to find my way out of this rabbit hole so I can get back to work.


I am very happy with this hardware release as its on the money from a build perspective - i9, 6 core with hyper threading, 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD would be the order of the day. Sure the price is high, however all my software investment moves over for free so the total cost of ownership is reduced significantly vs moving to Windows.

My problem is they (Apple) took so long to release it by stubbornly refusing to plop 32GB RAM in a previous version I built a hackintosh and its is rather surprisingly good. Coupled with an iPad Pro for mobile use I actually find myself questioning if I still need a laptop... I didn't think I would ever be saying (typing) that...

Sure I have lost the ability to move my machine anywhere and carry on working but continuity and bit of cloud file sharing is all thats needed to overcome the shortfalls for most of my working situations as the laptop was typically desk bound most of the time. Its not as slick a solution overall but then I now have an additional £3700 in the bank to spend on other stuff.

I still like the look of that new laptop however... <must not get wallet out... Hee hee>
 
So basically this thing is just a slightly souped-up version of the previous MacBook "Pro", which was a joke, which means this thing is also a joke. NO THANKS.

My tolerance for Apple's navel gazing has about reached its limit.
Tolerance for your hyperbole has also reached a limit. Blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. At least use some facts. The 8th Gen, 6 core Intel i9 chip was just introduced April 3. Apple is one of the very first manufacturers to feature the newest chip. The specs of the leaked benchmarks already show this computer is not just a marginal gain in performance. Find another similarly “slightly souped-up” computer with the Apple’s specs. And post it here so we can see what kind of a “joke” it is by comparison.

For comparison Microsoft’s Top of the line “Powerhouse” - (their word) :

15” Intel® Core™ i7 processor with quad-core power**
1TB

16GB
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 discrete GPU w/6GB GDDR5 graphics memory

$3,299


Below are the ONLY other i9 laptops I can even find, correct me if I missed one:




    • Alienware 17: Core i9, GTX 1080, 16GB RAM, 512GB PCIe M.2 SSD with a 1TB 7200RPM HDD, 1440p 120Hz G-Sync display - $3,699 on Dell.com
    • Asus ROG G703: Core i9, GTX 1080, 32GB RAM, 512GB PCIe SSD with a 2TB hybrid drive, 1080p 144Hz G-Sync display - $3,699 on Amazon.com
    • Gigabyte Aorus X9: Core i9, GTX 1080, 32GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD with a 1TB HDD, 1080p 144Hz G-Sync display - $3,899 on Amazon.com
If people would stop posting hyperbolic rubish on here and try to base opinions at least somewhat in fact, we may actually learn something about the value of the new updates and if they are worthwhile. Yes, worth - that is a personal opion. We are all entitled. Many miss the MagSafe - that’s valid, and it is a fact that it is missing. Others don’t want to deal with dongles because of the 4 USB-C, good opinion based on facts of the hardware. But the false statements regarding price versus last year’s line - read from the Verge - the pricing is the same per step of upgrade -fact. Or to say that these are not real upgrades is just patently wrong (and shows technical ignorance) They may not be worth it for you, but these are significant changes to the CPU and GPU, as well as RAM among other updates. I guess some people have nothing better to do than troll.
 
Perspective:

Intel's first 10nm 'Cannon Lake' processor with 32GB LPDDR4 RAM support ships
Thursday, May 17, 2018, 06:53 am PT (09:53 am ET)


Apple Still lagging behind. PC industry moves to new chips fast, you’ll see new intel architectures in a matter of months.

Dude. You don't know what you're talking about. The only Cannon Lake chip available yet is a 15 Watt Core i3 without integrated graphics. You don't want that in your MacBook Pro.

Apple isn't ****ing lagging behind anywhere...
[doublepost=1531498891][/doublepost]
So you'd be ok with anything less than that for a performance machine?

"Expected minimum" implies there'd be something better available.. Which there isn't.
[doublepost=1531498963][/doublepost]
I bought a new, top of the line 15” on June 10... what are the chances I can return it for one of these new models.
14 day return period, so unfortunately low chances. You can sell it though...
[doublepost=1531499254][/doublepost]
How many generations did the previous “non-butterfly” mechanisms keyboard on the Mac laptop lineup have? Serious question.

There is a reason why we are at the third generation of this version of the keyboard, it does not work and something is off. The same butterfly mechanism is used on the iPad Pro Smark Keyboard Cover, and the fabric is what makes the difference I suspect.

Put the same fabric on the MBP, and maybe we would not be on generation 3, just a thought I am not sure if it will improve things or not.

No one is really looking for a high redesign, people are just requesting for some I/O used on a daily basis without having to purchase and carry around dongle. I feel Apple is being stubborn in this area and not wanting to admit their made a mistake. I get it USB-C is the future connector, however there is a thing called a transitional phase, where a product has the majority of the present ports used, some future ports and drop some unused ports. Replacing the previous Thunderbolt 2 ports with the USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports would have been the best of both worlds and a happy median for many pro-users. However Apple said, screw those pro-users and capitalize on dongles and inconvenience users to carry these around. It is not a clean, minimal solution. It is anything but elegant and is very un-Apple like of a product. Poorly designed and executed to claim, “Hey we have a product!”

TouchBar is also in the wrong plane on the device. An overworked and underperforming Apple intern must have designed this MBP. I smh as to how this product even got the green light.

If you don't understand this product, you don't seem to understand Apple.

You can complain all you want, but I'm pretty sure people who like these devices, and think the 2016+ design is the best MBP design yet, are in the majority.

Apple wouldn't just have made the third iteration of a laptop design that doesn't sell.
 
Dude. You don't know what you're talking about. The only Cannon Lake chip available yet is a 15 Watt Core i3 without integrated graphics. You don't want that in your MacBook Pro.

Apple isn't ****ing lagging behind anywhere...
[doublepost=1531498891][/doublepost]

"Expected minimum" implies there'd be something better available.. Which there isn't.
[doublepost=1531498963][/doublepost]
14 day return period, so unfortunately low chances. You can sell it though...

or you didn't read my general suggestion that apple takes too long to do a CPU update when the PC market jumps on new CPU revision/arch. Whatever the problems with 10mm, evidence points that apples upgrade cycle will miss it or it come significantly later than the PC market.. You are aware that many of the machines have lagged a generation or two, if not more behind.

and don't be so blind to think Apple is always ahead. Fan boy myth and illusion.
 
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This is not true. People were asking for USB-A ports, magsafe, SD cards to return and they are not happy with the new keyboard plus they bumped the prices. People were also hoping for more capable computers not something that will melt running 4-year old games.

Then those people were deluding themselves. Apple is moving to USB-C in all its product lines, at least for itself, as fast as it can and is not going to add back USB-A, SDXC, HDMI or MagSafe - EVER. Given how important the MAcBook Pro is to Apple's overall Mac sales, I am confident that they thought about it long and hard before they did it, and now it is done. They aren't going to backtrack, because changing the CNC milling machines to mill out extra ports is non-trivial, as is redesigning the motherboard, reworking the chassis to strengthen/stress test the places that are now carved out, which would be a TON of work. Then Apple would have to go through the FCC approval process because you changed emissions, et al. It was never going to happen no matter how many users howled in protest about it.

Apple did not bump the prices, they simply gave additional BTO options with RAM and/or SSD that raise the price significantly if you opt to purchase them. The base configurations that they sell in the Apple Store and Best Buy are all the same cost as is the CPU upgrade options, RAM options and Flash Storage options that you can opt for in the online store.

These new MacBook Pros are immensely capable computers, but I think what you really mean is, "These computers suck because they don't have NVIDIA GPUs in them and until Apple puts NVIDIA GPUs in its Macs they all suck!" Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
> Apple says the 15-inch model is up to 70 percent faster, and the 13-inch model is up to two times faster, than
> the equivalent 2017 models

But can they make a keyboard that doesn't break down after 12 months?
[doublepost=1531487756][/doublepost]

I hate the touchbar. I have accidentally sent away half-written emails because of it. I now have all functionality disabled. I wish their new keyboard was never invented.

Give me a MBP 2015 with a better processor.

You're aware you can customize the Touch Bar to your needs in almost every app and certainly in Mail?

Just throw out the "send" button if it's dangerous for you and put in the controls you like instead
[doublepost=1531500337][/doublepost]
PC options that are faster and far more advanced.
Are they? No.
[doublepost=1531501253][/doublepost]
or you didn't read my general suggestion that apple takes too long to do a CPU update when the PC market jumps on new CPU revision/arch. Whatever the problems with 10mm, evidence points that apples upgrade cycle will miss it or it come significantly later than the PC market.. You are aware that many of the machines have lagged a generation or two, if not more behind.

and don't be so blind to think Apple is always ahead. Fan boy myth and illusion.

So you're suggesting the only thing Apple should orientate their Mac refresh cycles by is Intels erratic CPU releases?

Do you know whether Cannonlake chips appropriate for the MBP will be available in 5 months or more than a year? No, neither do I.
Intel's postponed 10nm for so long now, and I'm sure Apple is closely in touch with them, just like they are with any supplier they have to rely on.

Many Coffee Lake notebooks by other manufacturers have been released this month, did you complain they were "lagging behind" as well?

Nobody said Apple was always ahead. But they certainly are all but "lagging behind" with the Mac right now..
 
You can choose from a vast array of pc options.
Precisely. And a vast array of what's becoming SUPERIOR options.
[doublepost=1531503161][/doublepost]
Tolerance for your hyperbole has also reached a limit. Blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. At least use some facts.
Talk about Blah blah blah. How about using some facts that are pertinent...

Apparently Magsafe -- one of their best laptop innovations -- is gone forever.
I don't want a touchbar at the expense of actual function keys.
I don't want the obnoxiously huge trackpad.
I don't want the annoying short travel keyboard.
I don't want it .000001 mm thinner.
I don't want it even more expensive.
I want PORTS that I actually use.
I want the option of a blu-ray drive.
I want a "Pro" machine that's actually pro. This ain't it, and neither was the previous one.
 
You're aware you can customize the Touch Bar to your needs in almost every app and certainly in Mail?

Just throw out the "send" button if it's dangerous for you and put in the controls you like instead
[doublepost=1531500337][/doublepost]
Are they? No.
[doublepost=1531501253][/doublepost]

So you're suggesting the only thing Apple should orientate their Mac refresh cycles by is Intels erratic CPU releases?

Do you know whether Cannonlake chips appropriate for the MBP will be available in 5 months or more than a year? No, neither do I.
Intel's postponed 10nm for so long now, and I'm sure Apple is closely in touch with them, just like they are with any supplier they have to rely on.

Many Coffee Lake notebooks by other manufacturers have been released this month, did you complain they were "lagging behind" as well?

Nobody said Apple was always ahead. But they certainly are all but "lagging behind" with the Mac right now..

So apple has updated its Mac products fast enough for people to not complain? you are obviously new to watching Apple news.

I remember Apple keeping up to date pretty much at the same speed at the PC market for new CPU arch/rev and other changes and at times being far ahead. The product refresh, not just in the MBP, has taken too long and you know that.
 
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...
Apparently Magsafe -- one of their best laptop innovations -- is gone forever.
I don't want a touchbar at the expense of actual function keys.
I don't want the obnoxiously huge trackpad.
I don't want the annoying short travel keyboard.
I don't want it .000001 mm thinner.
I don't want it even more expensive.
I want PORTS that I actually use.
I want the option of a blu-ray drive.
I want a "Pro" machine that's actually pro. This ain't it, and neither was the previous one.
You forgot to add: one pacifier
 
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Precisely. And a vast array of what's becoming SUPERIOR options.
[doublepost=1531503161][/doublepost]
Talk about Blah blah blah. How about using some facts that are pertinent...

Apparently Magsafe -- one of their best laptop innovations -- is gone forever.
I don't want a touchbar at the expense of actual function keys.
I don't want the obnoxiously huge trackpad.
I don't want the annoying short travel keyboard.
I don't want it .000001 mm thinner.
I don't want it even more expensive.
I want PORTS that I actually use.
I want the option of a blu-ray drive.
I want a "Pro" machine that's actually pro. This ain't it, and neither was the previous one.

These are pro machines for most pros using them, we have literally dozens of them in my office, almost every dev here is using a 15" macbook pro with a couple exceptions on dell xps 13/15s. I'm a software dev, and the machine is pretty damn pro for me, and they just addressed my major complaints (16GB RAM ceiling, quad core ceiling).

And personally on features? I don't even miss magsafe. I'll happily trade its convenience for cheap replacement power cables and common charging standard across my devices. I'm more annoyed that my iphone doesnt have usbc than the fact that magsafe is missing.

The huge trackpad I find useful, and still miles ahead of *any* other manufacturers trackpad, and though when at my desk it's docked I use an external kb/trackpad I don't even mind the keyboard when I use it at home/out of the office.

The new models aren't any more expensive than the old ones, the price ceiling is just higher because there's more SSD BTO options, and that silicon costs $$$. No one's forcing you to buy it with a 4TB SSD though (and most people getting anything as expensive as a the *fully* tricked out version, 4TB SSD and all, aren't paying for it themselves, like me their employer is paying for it as a cost of equipping their employee).

I've found the ports to be less and less of an issue, I don't really need ports the way I used to most of the time and the single multi-adapter in my bag is fine for the occasional times I do.

Optical media is dead for most computers, it's not coming back, and that's not just apple, deal with it. That complaint made sense a few years ago, it doesnt now.

I'll give you the touchbar though, that thing's implementation is a mistake that I hope apple will rectify somehow eventually. It's not that it's terrible in and of itself, I just miss the physical keys, if they could slot it in *above* the f row I'd be fine with it. But, as annoying as it is, it isnt really a dealbreaker either, and I've *occasionally* found it useful. I do like the fingerprint reader, I wish they made an external kb with the reader and a secure enclave chip
 
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You forgot to add: one pacifier
Fanboi alert.
[doublepost=1531506717][/doublepost]
These are pro machines for most pros using them, we have literally dozens of them in my office, almost every dev here is using a 15" macbook pro with a couple exceptions on dell xps 13/15s. I'm a software dev, and the machine is pretty damn pro for me, and they just addressed my major complaints (16GB RAM ceiling, quad core ceiling).

And personally on features? I don't even miss magsafe. I'll happily trade its convenience for cheap replacement power cables and common charging standard across my devices. I'm more annoyed that my iphone doesnt have usbc than the fact that magsafe is missing.

The huge trackpad I find useful, and still miles ahead of *any* other manufacturers trackpad, and though when at my desk it's docked I use an external I don't even mind the keyboard when I use it at home/out of the office.

The new models aren't any more expensive than the old ones, the price ceiling is just higher because there's more SSD BTO options, and that silicon costs $$$. No one's forcing you to buy it with a 4TB SSD though (and most people getting anything as expensive as a the *fully* tricked out version, 4TB SSD and all, aren't paying for it themselves, like me their employer is paying for it as a cost of equipping their employee).

I've found the ports to be less and less of an issue, I don't really need ports the way I used to most of the time and the single multi-adapter in my bag is fine for the occasional times I do.

Optical media is dead for most computers, it's not coming back, and that's not just apple, deal with it. That complaint made sense a few years ago, it doesnt now.

I'll give you the touchbar though, that thing's implementation is a mistake that I hope apple will rectify somehow eventually. It's not that it's terrible in and of itself, I just miss the physical keys, if they could slot it in *above* the f row I'd be fine with it. But, as annoying as it is, it isnt really a dealbreaker either, and I've *occasionally* found it useful. I do like the fingerprint reader, I wish they made an external kb with the reader and a secure enclave chip
If you're in software dev, then you need little else than the machine and some onboard storage.

However, for others, convenient connectivity is a must. Good keyboard feel is a must. A trackpad that doesn't presume everyone does graphics with it is a must. And despite decrees to the contrary, optical media is hardly dead -- burned several discs yesterday, just bought Blu-ray movies, etc. In short, OPTIONS is what proper computing philosophy is about -- doing what YOU want to do, HOW you want to do it is what machines are supposed to be about. The Jobs era Apple (Computers) got it; now they don't.
 
I don't even miss magsafe. I'll happily trade its convenience for cheap replacement power cables and common charging standard across my devices.

The USB-C cable on my 2017 MBP dislodges from the port on a regular basis - just enough to break the connection. It is terrible. The MagSafe was awesome, and now it's replaced with this awful connector.
 
The other way round, if Apple reverted to the old keyboard design, what you apparently want; If someone doesn't like that one anymore, because he's experienced how precise and easy the new design is, what option would they have? None, not even the Bluetooth keyboard!



Make it a BTO option.

You tried the new KB at a Best Buy, or at a coworkers desk, and HATE it? Here's the old KB you like in a slightly thicker case.

You value the laptop being thin over typing comfort, here's the new KB in the manila envelope thin case that you have to look at twice to see once.

You'd think Apple could figure out a way to do that without hurting the bottom line? It's not like they destroyed the past designs when the new one went into production. They have the technology...
 
Would like to see some GPU benchmarks. Looking online it seems the Radeon Pro 560X are 2.6 TFLOP* GPUs in the 2018 15" models. How does this compare to previous 2017 models?

* source: https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-560x

This isn’t the right part. That’s the RX560X. Not exactly the same. The previous 555 and 560 were 1.3 and 1.8 TFLOPS with 80 GB/s bandwidth which is poor to be honest. The 2017 was exactly the same as the 2016.

To be a capable GPU anywhere from 5-6 TFLOPS and over 200 GB/s bandwidth is necessary. Of course this isn’t top of the line anymore since desktop cards are much stronger, but it would be more the good enough for a notebook. More along the lines of what nVidia is offering.

As for the iGPU, the UHD630, it is the same as Kaby Lake. They call it UHD since we’re now in the 4K era. Clock speeds are just 50 MHz faster which may as well be nothing.
 
Fanboi alert.
[doublepost=1531506717][/doublepost]
If you're in software dev, then you need little else than the machine and some onboard storage.

However, for others, convenient connectivity is a must. Good keyboard feel is a must. A trackpad that doesn't presume everyone does graphics with it is a must. And despite decrees to the contrary, optical media is hardly dead -- burned several discs yesterday, just bought Blu-ray movies, etc. In short, OPTIONS is what proper computing philosophy is about -- doing what YOU want to do, HOW you want to do it is what machines are supposed to be about. The Jobs era Apple (Computers) got it; now they don't.

Yes, because a keyboard is irrelevant when you type out code all day ::eyeroll::. and half my personal workflow is gesture based, a good trackpad may be the single most important thing after useable keyboard for me.

I *destroy* keyboards, and I don't really mind the current Apple one. I actually like typing on it, I just don't like its reliability, which it sounds like they fixed (anecdotally my coworkers with the 2017 version seem to have more reliable keyboards than me too, so I would assume the 2018 fixes the kb problems even better).

And most laptops sold today don't have optical drives, if you're the niche that needs a built in drive good for you, but it really is a small niche. Most Apple customers, including the pro ones, don't need a built in bluray drive, and don't want one. Hell, it's relatively hard to find *external* bluray drives since there's just not enough demand (there are plenty of decent and cheap external dvd drives for those that need legacy support every so often though).

tl;dr Most people havent missed optical discs in a long time.

And last, Apple's never been about options btw, dunno where you got that. They've been, at least since next acquired apple and brought steve jobs back, about single unified product line. You buy what they have if it fits you, or you look elsewhere. They're actually offering *more* options, and fragmentation sadly, today than they've been in a while. Can you imagine steve jobs allowing the lineup fragmentation we have right now, or the competing port standards?
 
I am very happy with this hardware release as its on the money from a build perspective - i9, 6 core with hyper threading, 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD would be the order of the day. Sure the price is high, however all my software investment moves over for free so the total cost of ownership is reduced significantly vs moving to Windows.

My problem is they (Apple) took so long to release it by stubbornly refusing to plop 32GB RAM in a previous version I built a hackintosh and its is rather surprisingly good. Coupled with an iPad Pro for mobile use I actually find myself questioning if I still need a laptop... I didn't think I would ever be saying (typing) that...

I agree. I wish they had just offered 32GB back at the end of 2016. Nothing has changed here. Intel unfortunately has not been able to deliver LPDDR4 support and who knows if they ever will! They really could not keep limiting them to 16 anymore and were forced to go with regular DDR4.

Honestly they should’ve increased the battery capacity as much as possible like they’ve done now to support the extra consumption of DDR4. They probably wouldn’t have had to remove the battery remaining indicator from the Sierra menu bar after the initial complaints when the 2016 machines were released! It still hasn’t come back!
 
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If you don't understand this product, you don't seem to understand Apple.

You can complain all you want, but I'm pretty sure people who like these devices, and think the 2016+ design is the best MBP design yet, are in the majority.

Apple wouldn't just have made the third iteration of a laptop design that doesn't sell.


People either don’t know what to compare it to, as the rMB has the same keyboard as the MBP. Only other official macOS laptop is the MBAir and that has a processor that is over 2+ generations old with a TN panel screen and low resolution.

It is by design that Apple has crippled the MBAir and MB (single USB-C halfspeed port) compared to the MBP line.

Put the Kool-Aid down, step back and take a good hard look at what Apple is purposely and forcefully doing by providing no real choice for laptop owner. Was there any reason to omit a number of standard I/O ports and phase USB-C in slowly, or include a dongle or two with an overpriced purchase and a defective keyboard (Gen 1 and 2 possibly 3).

I don’t have Apple blinders to praise it’s product releases till the chickens come home to roost, the product is half-baked and the executives are testing the water to see what the lemming customers will accept and what Apple can get away with. Be informed and make wise purchase decisions.
 
Fanboi alert.

optical media is hardly dead -- burned several discs yesterday, just bought Blu-ray movies, etc. . . . . The Jobs era Apple (Computers) got it; now they don't.
First: Ooooh Nooooo, you called me a Fanboi ! So whitty! Ok, give the Keyboard back to your dad please.

Jobs Apple era got it, all right. The Jun 2012 MBP was first to be released without the optical. It was in development under Jobs, who stepped down in August of 2011. Apple had been phasing out CD/DVD drives since the introduction of the MacBook Air in January 2008. And Jobs famously referred to blu-ray as “a bag of hurt”. And remember, in 1998, Apple moved similarly as a leader in deleting floppy drives from its computers.

Yes, blu-ray media is certainly still out there. But in laptops, it is dead. The limited users that still want to burn optical have many better external options to do so than inside a laptop. Wasting laptop internal real estate on an energy-consuming optical drive is just dumb today. Any more 80 and 90’s tech you want to keep on the ideal MacBook Pro
 
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And if the client had a DVI connection, you would have needed a 2008 MBP... or a dongle. You can't ever count on your computer to have the ports you need in every situation.

Of course, and I do in fact carry the DVI dongle along with the VGA dongle - even though I have *never* needed it. I know that the day I don't will be the day I have to travel to someone who only has DVI available.

My comment was directed at those few in this thread who have proclaimed that there is no need to use or support legacy hardware (probably because they're only using their machines in environments they control - like their own offices or homes). People who have to travel and work remotely (those "mobile professionals" for whom these machines are supposedly designed) already know better.

The "big bag o' dongles" is, however, really annoying - there's not much advantage to a 4 lb laptop that requires 3 lbs of dongles to function. I suppose it's not as bad if you're mainly traveling by car, but all my customers except one require air travel to reach. Sometimes I feel as though I'm operating a mobile Apple store. My "go bag" basically has every dongle Apple made for the old Retina MBP, plus all the international plug adapters (based on a "hey, can you fly to Singapore tomorrow" call I once got from my boss while I was on the road somewhere else - he was lucky I had my passport with me). I actually carry two VGA dongles (after a colleague "borrowed" mine once and never returned it).

Airplanes and hotel rooms tend to eat dongles for some reason. Dongles are like socks in that respect ;-)

It was just chance that they had an HDMI projector and you had something that could connect to it. I've always had a lot of dongles because I always want to show up prepared for anything. At worst, I have one more dongle now.

HDMI projectors seem to be pretty much ubiquitous now. I think I've been to one customer who didn't have an HDMI projector in the last couple of years (and it was VGA). What's really great are the customers who have Apple TVs running their big displays. Airplay is a wonderful thing if you have a Mac. ;-)
 
I guess this is the first time where it doesn't make sense to just buy a previous gen model from B&H for much cheaper? It used to make sense considering you got a small bump in speed and architecture but now we have actual core jumps (dual to quad, and quad to six).
 
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The irony of the people who refuse to touch an adapter is that a world in which USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 become the standards actually means fewer dongles and adapters because that one port does everything.

Of course it's a good thing - the big issue is that we're in the transition period now so things are maximally inconvenient for everyone. I'm planning on doing this upgrade - mainly because I *really* need the 32GB of RAM. I would prefer if I could retain the HDMI port and the SD card slot, but that's the price I have to pay to get the upgrade I actually need.

However, I don't think USB-C/TB3 will be universal even when this machine is retired in four years. It'll happen eventually, because it obviously is a superior solution.


I don't think that's true. Someone here explained to me a while back that adding MagSafe to the MBP that is already using USB-C charging is not as easy as people think it is. Even if there was space available, you can't just casually add electricity into a computer and expect it to charge the battery or not damage the computer.

So you're saying I shouldn't try to hook up the jumper cables to my MBP???? ;-) I'll make a note of that.
 
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Still double the price compared to a similar spec'd PC laptop, still needs a half dozen dongles to get the same I/O as a PC laptop.

I'll stick with my Lenovo.

Just for fun, heres a similar PC laptop:

Dell XPS 15:
2.2Ghz 6 core CPU (same as the base MacBook Pro 15)
16GB DDR4 (same)
256GB M.2 SSD (same)
GeForce 1050TI 4GB (better)
4K IGZO LCD (better)
2 USB 3.1 type A (better)
HDMI (better)
Thunderbolt 3 (same)
SD slot (better)
2499$ CAD vs 3199$ CAD for the MacBook Pro
 
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