Keyboard - Nail in the Coffin

[doitdada]

Now that a

I’d probably agree with you on USB A purely because by the time this design cycle is over there will probably be sufficient momentum behind C that it will be a lot less of an issue. On MagSafe, I wouldn’t be surprised to see something similar replace it, even if it’s more of a magnetic puck that does inductive or something.

Now that my household is getting more USB C devices and cables I can charge my MacBook Pro all over my house and it is starting to become decent. I would love to have it on my iPhone as well, but I may switch to a Note 8, it has a USB-C charging port, if the price goes down now that it competes with the iPhone X, and then all my devices will be able to charge from the same cables. Even the Nintendo Switch use USB C. I feel 2018 may be the year that makes USB C something you can live with and depend on for the first since Apple launched the MacBook 12" with USB C in 2015. Even my desktop Windows 10 PC has a USB C port, but then again it also has 10+ USB ports, so yeah, not really hurting. The only thing that I need an adapter for now is my external CD/DVD writer. HDs are NAS, for traveling I use clouds and my USB A HDs are connected to my Time Capsule USB 2.0 port.

 

[Falhófnir]

Now that my household is getting more USB C devices and cables I can charge my MacBook Pro all over my house and it is starting to become decent. I would love to have it on my iPhone as well, but I may switch to a Note 8, it has a USB-C charging port, if the price goes down now that it competes with the iPhone X, and then all my devices will be able to charge from the same cables. Even the Nintendo Switch use USB C. I feel 2018 may be the year that makes USB C something you can live with and depend on for the first since Apple launched the MacBook 12" with USB C in 2015. Even my desktop Windows 10 PC has a USB C port, but then again it also has 10+ USB ports, so yeah, not really hurting. The only thing that I need an adapter for now is my external CD/DVD writer. HDs are NAS, for traveling I use clouds and my USB A HDs are connected to my Time Capsule USB 2.0 port.

As I posted in another thread I’d quite like to see the option of using a renewed MagSafe charging solution or USB C so you get the benefits of both as you see fit, there’s still times when you have to trail the cable and it’s a bit sketchy if it’s not a quickly detachable solution like MagSafe. And of course there’s times when it’s good to be able to use a usb c charger you have to hand, and not have to necessarily fork out for the first party charger if you need a replacement and there’s a cheaper option available using usb c. Doubt we’ll get that kind of thing from Apple but who knows. Yes most windows computers are beginning to offer at least one C port, but most accessories are still shipping with A (Versions with C are becoming more readily available now though) and it’s going to take time for people to transition their cables and devices over so this might be the year that C starts gaining significant traction, but I’d still guess probably at least 2020 before A and C reach parity and A starts to trail off and actually become a ‘legacy’ port...

 

[KhunJay]

Im actually stunned that OP says someone at Apple acknowledged something wasn't right.

Huge development.

 

[project_2501]

Can you buy a cover to keep the dust out? Just wondering ... some cover makers should be making a fortune.

Apple told me covers risk overheating the already overheating prone laptops.

 

[doitdada]

Nothing worse than a cover. It makes the computer look cheap, and it makes you look cheap as well. Like you can't afford Mac, and are forced have to sell it second hand down the road. Use it like a road warrior, and smash : ) I have lost my MacBook Pro skidding over tarmac, and it made a little scratch on the screen, but no errors. Sold it after two years for a good enough price.

.... it’s going to take time for people to transition their cables and devices over so this might be the year that C starts gaining significant traction, but I’d still guess probably at least 2020 before A and C reach parity and A starts to trail off and actually become a ‘legacy’ port...

Depends on the household and your income. I now have more USB C devices than USB A. It's really the iPhone that I can't understand. Since the USB C to lightning isn't even included in the iPhone X, you still have to buy the adapter for $25 to get fast charging and you need a stronger power supply to plug into your wall that sells for $49. Wireless charging is the least adapted option, and may stay that way for a while since it is slow. I prefer fast charging as it doesn't require much time, and usually I can sit in an airport lounge and still use my phone while charging instead of having it idle on a tabletop.

 

[Falhófnir]

Im actually stunned that OP says someone at Apple acknowledged something wasn't right.

Huge development.

Yeah I’ve seen a couple of people on here claiming the geniuses told them the keyboard is faulty, which [and I will point out straight away I’m not questioning the validity of what they say] is incredibly surprising as it opens up Apple to lawsuits from people who haven’t even had an issue but have bought a computer where there is a design flaw. I just can’t see Apple officially allowing any such thing to happen so it must be the genius’ own hearsay.

 

[doitdada]

....so it must be the genius’ own hearsay.

There is no official statement, but you may meet an honest man in the service stand that admits that the issue is normal. Here in Norway he told me this happens all the time and it shouldn't be an issue with the warranty. It has been done to two of my MacBooks without charge.

 

[newellj]

Can you buy a cover to keep the dust out? Just wondering ... some cover makers should be making a fortune.

I don't think dust is the problem, and you can vacuum that out. Plus, a cover would be guaranteed to scratch the display panel.

 

[Ovedius]

I have th 2016 13" TB and while it has not broken I am ready to sell it. I am worried about what I will do when my current MBPr dies - I don't want the new keyboard but I don't think they will ever offer it again. The new keyboard is here to stay. rats rats

Hopefully they'll iron out the kinks eventually.
I was really hoping they'd fixed it with revision 2 of the Butterfly mechaninsm, but it seems there still are issues to be mindfull of.

 

[parajba]

This is VERY annoying. Just purchased a refurb 2017 13 nTB (i7/16GB/512GB) as I usually keep them for 5-6 years. Haven't opened the box yet and I am almost inclined to return it as it looks like the v2 (2017) of the keyboard still has durability issues?

 

[newellj]

This is VERY annoying. Just purchased a refurb 2017 13 nTB (i7/16GB/512GB) as I usually keep them for 5-6 years. Haven't opened the box yet and I am almost inclined to return it as it looks like the v2 (2017) of the keyboard still has durability issues?

I have run into several of these in Apple Stores in the past month that had broken/defective keyboards *in the display units.* That totally put me off buying a 2017. I just bought a maxed-out early 2015 refurb instead. Not necessarily the perfect solution but I am not much of a power user on my laptop.

 

[Fishrrman]

The "keyboard issue" with the 2016-2017 MBPro's is going to become a BIG problem for Apple in the months and years to come.

Look at how many keyboards are experiencing failures now, while the machines are still relatively new.

How are the rest of them going to "hold up" as the machines age -- two, three years or more from now?

This must be costing Apple -a bundle of money- for returns, repairs, replacements, refunds.

Will they admit they made a design error (more like disaster)?

Even "RadeonGate", which affects a huge number of 2011 MBPro's, didn't manifest itself until the computers had been "in the field" for a few years. But the butterfly keyboards are already failing in large numbers pretty much "right off the shelf"...

 

[Falhófnir]

There is no official statement, but you may meet an honest man in the service stand that admits that the issue is normal. Here in Norway he told me this happens all the time and it shouldn't be an issue with the warranty. It has been done to two of my MacBooks without charge.

Yes, I'm not questioning that there is an issue, I think at this point there's enough evidence that there is a problem. Even if it's not happening to absolutely everyone then it's something that can spring up with use and isn't especially unusual. My point is that Apple won't officially recognise that unless they have absolutely no option but to, and that the geniuses are sticking their necks on the line by saying that to customers - if one has another problem and says what they were told to the wrong person then disciplinary action would be very likely.

 

[parajba]

This potential issue is very annoying as I am about to go home from work, and there is a parcel waiting for me (with my refurb 13 nTB i7/16GB/512GB inside). I was really looking forward to the new design and mighty screen/speed after 7 years of a non retina 15 MBP.

 

[Maxx Power]

I have run into several of these in Apple Stores in the past month that had broken/defective keyboards *in the display units.* That totally put me off buying a 2017. I just bought a maxed-out early 2015 refurb instead. Not necessarily the perfect solution but I am not much of a power user on my laptop.

I do remember a display unit at a BestBuy with a broken keyboard. If I assume that it didn't ship broken, then it must have been from all that dust or dirt from customers trying out the keyboard. On a different note, I remember being curious of the Surface tablets a long time ago. Of the 3 units I saw at various outlets, 2 were unable to boot properly due to some kind of fault. I never looked at them again.
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The "keyboard issue" with the 2016-2017 MBPro's is going to become a BIG problem for Apple in the months and years to come.

Look at how many keyboards are experiencing failures now, while the machines are still relatively new.

How are the rest of them going to "hold up" as the machines age -- two, three years or more from now?

This must be costing Apple -a bundle of money- for returns, repairs, replacements, refunds.

Will they admit they made a design error (more like disaster)?

Even "RadeonGate", which affects a huge number of 2011 MBPro's, didn't manifest itself until the computers had been "in the field" for a few years. But the butterfly keyboards are already failing in large numbers pretty much "right off the shelf"...

I do also believe that these keyboards are not user-replaceable or serviceable. You would either replace the entire top assembly (which is a chore) or replace the laptop.

 

[Melbourne Park]

I have run into several of these in Apple Stores in the past month that had broken/defective keyboards *in the display units.* That totally put me off buying a 2017. I just bought a maxed-out early 2015 refurb instead. Not necessarily the perfect solution but I am not much of a power user on my laptop.

I went to a large AppleStore closest to me, and they were all OK. The place is packed too and they have lots of 15" units, with people hammering away ...

I went to JB HiFi too, and Harvey Norman, both large retailers - and I didn't find a broken keyboard or anything sticking. Checked the PCs though and found lots of errors, but I presumed it was the OS and not the mechanics.

I am resigned to cleaning my keyboard though, I'll wipe it out and suck it out. I've read a report on this sight from a power user who develops and uses his 13 hours a day. He had sticking issues and found if he wiped out the sides of the keyboard once a week - all problems stopped. Perhaps this issue is exacerbated by having larger keys with smaller gaps between the keys. The larger keys means anything underneath the edge will have a great effect perhaps. And also the larger perimeter of each key will increase the chance of something fouling the key throw. But clean it regularly I've read, and the issues go. I didn't have to do that before, but I will now. Well actually ... I am always surprised by how filthy my MacPro tower gets inside. Now that thing is a lot different to the new 15". Not much difference in performance so that figures say ... I find that hard to believe. Wow.

I had a 15" Titanium MacBook, and that thing was a piece of **** IMO. The titanium was too thin. The CD underneath where I rested my wrists flexed, and that caused the titanium to split on the sides. The monitor was crap too, and the battery life a joke. The keyboard wasn't great either .

I'm sorry for the 2016 users though ... but there is always risk in new tech IMO. For those fearful, there's still the 2015 models. I was keen on a 105 refurb but couldn't get the spec I wanted. I'm relieved I got the 2017 though.

 

[newellj]

I just bought a 2015 refurb. The 2016 keyboard was not the Gen 1 version of this keyboard. It debuted in the 2015 retina MacBook. I believe that 2016 was supposed to be an improved version, and 2017 yet another iteration, but I may be mistaken about that. Whatever the case may be, these keyboards should be a lot better. We know Apple can make superb and very durable keyboards. The problem is making them razor thin.

 

[DougFNJ]

The more I have been using this keyboard on my 2017, the more I have been appreciating the less travel vs the 2015. I find that once I have gotten used to it, I am typing a little faster than before....not ridiculously significantly, but enough to where I am finding I prefer this keyboard over previous ones.

I am guessing the rate of failure on the 2016 models were higher than normal, where the 2017 fixed it to be a normal rate of failure? I see those threads with the 2016 and I was pretty nervous getting this one. I see occasional threads on the 2017....they are nothing like the amount of complaints on the 2016.

I also did regular Google searches for other sites, and that trend was the same.

 

[Chancha]

I believe that 2016 was supposed to be an improved version, and 2017 yet another iteration, but I may be mistaken about that. Whatever the case may be, these keyboards should be a lot better. We know Apple can make superb and very durable keyboards. The problem is making them razor thin.

Apple dubbed the one on 2015 MacBook being "Butterfly", then on 2016 MBP "Butterfly gen 2". They kept silent about the 2017 change but al 2017 units proven to have updated switches, which you can say are sort of a "gen 2.1".

Regardless, even the 2017 v2.1 exhibits much higher failure rate than the good old 2015 MBP or before.

 

[nnoble]

Can you buy a cover to keep the dust out? Just wondering ... some cover makers should be making a fortune.

I rarely use a built-in keyboard on a laptop. So a keyboard cover and my existing bluetooth keyboard would solve the problem for me. All I need now is £3,000.

PS. One BT keyboard has so far lasted me several years; is used in conjunction with mbp 2010, iPad Pro and occasionally with iPhone SE. For me, prolonged use of built-in and virtual keyboards places a strain on arms and back.

 

[newellj]

Apple dubbed the one on 2015 MacBook being "Butterfly", then on 2016 MBP "Butterfly gen 2". They kept silent about the 2017 change but al 2017 units proven to have updated switches, which you can say are sort of a "gen 2.1".

Regardless, even the 2017 v2.1 exhibits much higher failure rate than the good old 2015 MBP or before.

Yes. My point was we've had three model years with this design, and it simply isn't "there."

 

[rillrill]

So, I have my second visit to the Genius Bar for this issue with my MacBook - same key too. I kind of feel like I want my money back on this laptop - or at least a credit. If this is going to be an on going problem, this laptop is not going to work for me. I, and I am sure many of you, cannot keep bring my MacBook to the apple store every time a piece of dust gets into the keyboard. We will see, I guess....

 

[Queen6]

So, I have my second visit to the Genius Bar for this issue with my MacBook - same key too. I kind of feel like I want my money back on this laptop - or at least a credit. If this is going to be an on going problem, this laptop is not going to work for me. I, and I am sure many of you, cannot keep bring my MacBook to the apple store every time a piece of dust gets into the keyboard. We will see, I guess....

Bigger issue for many will be the cost, once Apple's basic warrantee expires. $1K to replace the poorly designed keyboard on the 15" MBP...

Q-6

 

[csurfr]

Exactly what happened.

The issue was the 3 trips to the Apple Store. Then I took a 5K i7 iMac and MacBook Air as part of an exchange and it had bad memory slots. So I then got a free upgrade to the 512 SSD.

At that point they gave me the Apple TV off the shelf and 150 dollars. So I think I did pretty well in spite of the serious amount of hassle and running around.

I would have been happier if the MPB had worked out because I really liked it.


R.

The man isn't lying. Apple did the exact same thing for me when I went through all of the failures with my 2016 MacBook Pro. . . $300.00 in credit to anything Apple sells online (no iPads, etc). Picked up an AppleTV and a Saddle Brown band for my AW. $300.00 is the max amount they can offer you to make up for your experience due to repeated issues.

 

[Queen6]

The man isn't lying. Apple did the exact same thing for me when I went through all of the failures with my 2016 MacBook Pro. . . $300.00 in credit to anything Apple sells online (no iPads, etc). Picked up an AppleTV and a Saddle Brown band for my AW. $300.00 is the max amount they can offer you to make up for your experience due to repeated issues.

I'd just prefer Apple got it right in the first place. Is simply a joke that a company with such capability and resources is incapable of designing a reliable keyboard. Seemingly "thinner" is all that counts with the MBP, let's discount reliability & usability...

Q-6