Keyboard - Nail in the Coffin

[csurfr]

I'd just prefer Apple got it right in the first place. Is simply a joke that a company with such capability and resources is incapable of designing a reliable keyboard. Seemingly "thinner" is all that counts with the MBP, let's discount reliability & usability...

Q-6

Oh, don't get it twisted. You and me both. I was losing my mind over sleep/wake, keyboard, and external display issues on multiple machines.

I now have a 2017 15" and it works pretty much flawlessly. The ONLY complaint that I have is that sometimes after a long sleep period it is VERY slow to wake. Something that I hope gets ironed out in the near future.
[doublepost=1510167575][/doublepost]

Bigger issue for many will be the cost, once Apple's basic warrantee expires. $1K to replace the poorly designed keyboard on the 15" MBP...

Q-6

Normally I only throw AppleCare on my iOS devices as they get more use, but this MbP will certainly be getting AppleCare prior to the one year warranty expiring.

 

[enrincon89]

I bought a 2017 MBP with TB about a month ago and I regret it. The M key failed and had to replace the keyboard case. When I got it back the MBP had a scratch on the hinge of computer I called Apple care and complain about the scratch the rep I talked to contacted the Apple Store where I took the computer and of course they said they didn’t do it. So the rep called me back and said since it was just cosmetic and he couldn’t prove that they did in the store so he gave me a coupon for $100 dollars that I can use on my next purchase of $300 dollars or more. I’m going to sell this machine and get an iMac 5K I don’t want to deal with this keyboard anymore. If it broke with only one month of use I don’t want to imagine what’s going to happen when the warranty expires.

 

[parajba]

Such a pity as it's a very nice machine. I am 50/50 as I really like it.

I am based in the U.K., can you just return it no quibbles within 14 days too? Even if it has been used? I bought it from the refurb store (online).

 

[rillrill]

So the genius said every time a key sticks to bring it back to have them fix it. If they can’t they send it out to replace the bottom half. This is the most asinine way to deal with this issue. My time is worth more than this laptop. I’m not risking going back and forth. Next failure I want a refund or full credit. Anybody have a number of times they had their keyboard fixed before they were got a refund?

 

[KGB7]

@catrb Thanks for the info.
I’m going to wait for 2018 MBP, it will give me more time to save up for new MBP. In the mean time, I’ll continue to use my trusty 6 year old Dell for a little longer. Might even get a newer and faster SSD to replace old and slower SSD I have installed years ago.

 

[mcpryon2]

So far my requests for a refund of my 2016 15" have been them telling me to pound sand. I guess I'll just wait until I have to get the keyboard replaced again.

What is maddening is I feel obligated to buy AppleCare for it, which I normally don't do. So it's either sink more money into an extended warranty for a computer I can't use like I need to, since I can't have it fail again on the road, or sell it for a $1,000 loss (after seller fees) since the price took a hit with the release of the 2017 version.

I even got petty with my Apple rep and told him I had a $30,000 budget for updating our office and computer lab at work and I'm probably moving at least the laptops to Windows machines. "Oh, sorry to hear that....anything else?"

I get extra salty when I hear of these people getting free stuff for their troubles. I'm admittedly bitter, but I've wasted a lot of time on this MacBook Pro.

 

[parajba]

Quick question, I am based in the U.K., can you just return it no quibbles within 14 days too? Even if it has been used? I bought it from the refurb store (online).

 

[Queen6]

So far my requests for a refund of my 2016 15" have been them telling me to pound sand. I guess I'll just wait until I have to get the keyboard replaced again.

What is maddening is I feel obligated to buy AppleCare for it, which I normally don't do. So it's either sink more money into an extended warranty for a computer I can't use like I need to, since I can't have it fail again on the road, or sell it for a $1,000 loss (after seller fees) since the price took a hit with the release of the 2017 version.

I even got petty with my Apple rep and told him I had a $30,000 budget for updating our office and computer lab at work and I'm probably moving at least the laptops to Windows machines. "Oh, sorry to hear that....anything else?"

I get extra salty when I hear of these people getting free stuff for their troubles. I'm admittedly bitter, but I've wasted a lot of time on this MacBook Pro.

Only time Apple will care is if the revenue takes a nosedive. Given Apple is now predominately a phone company, few if any hopes. My expectations get lower by the year, nor does Apple disappoint with pointlessly thinner toy's designed to Impress, rather than deliver...

Q-6

 

[mcpryon2]

Only time Apple will care is if the revenue takes a nosedive. Given Apple is now predominately a phone company, few if any hope. My expectations get lower by the year, nor does Apple disappoint with pointlessly thinner toy's designed to Impress, rather than deliver...

Q-6

Maybe I'll outsmart them and replace all of our work Macs with iPhones...

 

[newellj]

Quick question, I am based in the U.K., can you just return it no quibbles within 14 days too? Even if it has been used? I bought it from the refurb store (online).

You would have to check their policies in the UK, but in the US refurbs have the same return policy as new computers - 14 days, no questions asked, used or not.

 

[project_2501]

Oh, don't get it twisted. You and me both. I was losing my mind over sleep/wake, keyboard, and external display issues on multiple machines.

I now have a 2017 15" and it works pretty much flawlessly. The ONLY complaint that I have is that sometimes after a long sleep period it is VERY slow to wake. Something that I hope gets ironed out in the near future.
[doublepost=1510167575][/doublepost]

Normally I only throw AppleCare on my iOS devices as they get more use, but this MbP will certainly be getting AppleCare prior to the one year warranty expiring.

The 2017 laptops are a warranty time bomb.
[doublepost=1510231178][/doublepost]

Only time Apple will care is if the revenue takes a nosedive. Given Apple is now predominately a phone company, few if any hope. My expectations get lower by the year, nor does Apple disappoint with pointlessly thinner toy's designed to Impress, rather than deliver...

Q-6

Apple is a fashion company I fear.

 

[Naimfan]

So the genius said every time a key sticks to bring it back to have them fix it. If they can’t they send it out to replace the bottom half. This is the most asinine way to deal with this issue. My time is worth more than this laptop. I’m not risking going back and forth. Next failure I want a refund or full credit. Anybody have a number of times they had their keyboard fixed before they were got a refund?

I had the top case replaced on a 2016 twice before Apple exchanged it for a 2017, which I promptly sold.

 

[project_2501]

my replacement keyboard on the 2017 MBP13 nTB is starting to fail.. my own observations correlate it to overheating and poor thermal design causing the keyboards to fail (and the display panel adhesive in clamshell mode)

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2017-macbook-pro-13-non-tb-review.2056971/

 

[Hater]

It'd be nice if they had removable keyboard modules like the iBooks used to have, give users the choice of boards with different weighted keys, and sell a premium metal keyboard insert like old PowerBooks had. Would make a fortune.

 

[Fishrrman]

project 2501 wrote:
"The 2017 laptops are a warranty time bomb."

Might be the most cogent post in the thread.

If these units are having problems now -- right "out of production" -- what rate of failure will they be experiencing two, three, four years "down the line"?

Each time a key fails, does Apple have to replace the -entire- top case?
I wonder what this is costing them, "per repair"?

I wouldn't be surprised if two "successive" repairs wipes out the profit on a particular unit.

This design has the potential to be the most costly for Apple -- in terms of failures and goodwill -- than were the "RadeonGate" 2011 MBPro 15/17" models.

 

[Naimfan]

The charge listed on both top case replacements was $795 for the top case and $100 for labor; obviously I didn't pay either one as it was covered under warranty.

Apple then replaced a 2.6/1 TB/460 model with a 3.1/1 TB/560 2017. I have to believe that nets out negatively on the financial side; my wife, who is a CPA and Controller for a utility, agreed and is incredulous that a company would sell a product that seems so likely to fail.

I think the next revision of the MBP could be telling - whether it's in 2018 or 2019.

 

[rillrill]

So, my command key (a key I use ALL THE TIME) failed again. It's stuck. I'm going to the apple store tomorrow to get a refund. This is ridiculous.

 

[project_2501]

project 2501 wrote:
"The 2017 laptops are a warranty time bomb."

Might be the most cogent post in the thread.

If these units are having problems now -- right "out of production" -- what rate of failure will they be experiencing two, three, four years "down the line"?

Each time a key fails, does Apple have to replace the -entire- top case?
I wonder what this is costing them, "per repair"?

I wouldn't be surprised if two "successive" repairs wipes out the profit on a particular unit.

This design has the potential to be the most costly for Apple -- in terms of failures and goodwill -- than were the "RadeonGate" 2011 MBPro 15/17" models.

and if you're out of warranty.... which for many of us is just 1 year...

 

[mcpryon2]

I don't know how people are getting refunds past the first two weeks, let alone free stuff and comps. I just got off the phone with Apple again and they basically told me to go f myself.

Is the secret yelling at them instead of being nice?

Who are you all emailing, anyway?

Who are you calling?

What gives, yo?

I talked with the person on the phone about the old video card time bombs and said this keyboard reminds me of that. The rep then did say that there are for sure more problems with this keyboard than any other model before and that it was unsure if Apple will acknowledge it (I think we all know the answer to that).

I then expressed my displeasure about feeling forced into buying an extended warranty for a computer I don't want. My dilemma is that or sell it for a big loss. "Yes, I understand...so, would you like to complete this transaction now?"

My refund suggestions and/or requests to return for an iMac are universally rejected.

I guess maybe next I just walk into the Apple Store, slap down my box and just start ranting or walk out, leaving it behind.

A possession shouldn't be bothering me this much, but it's like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

[project_2501]

I don't know how people are getting refunds past the first two weeks, let alone free stuff and comps. I just got off the phone with Apple again and they basically told me to go f myself.

Is the secret yelling at them instead of being nice?

Who are you all emailing, anyway?

Who are you calling?

What gives, yo?

I talked with the person on the phone about the old video card time bombs and said this keyboard reminds me of that. The rep then did say that there are for sure more problems with this keyboard than any other model before and that it was unsure if Apple will acknowledge it (I think we all know the answer to that).

I then expressed my displeasure about feeling forced into buying an extended warranty for a computer I don't want. My dilemma is that or sell it for a big loss. "Yes, I understand...so, would you like to complete this transaction now?"

My refund suggestions and/or requests to return for an iMac are universally rejected.

I guess maybe next I just walk into the Apple Store, slap down my box and just start ranting or walk out, leaving it behind.

A possession shouldn't be bothering me this much, but it's like I'm taking crazy pills.

Here is my very very painful journey towards a refund. I haven't got one yet. [link]

The key is to collect actual indisputable evidence and post it publicly .. on forums and social media.
Apple's strategy is to make every complainant feel like only they have an issue and that these issues are rare isolated cases. The more we raise the issue the harder it is for them to divide and conquer.
And yes they will ignore your evidence, but in a court of law, and in the court of public opinion, evidence is evidence is evidence.

My strategy has been to be firm and persistent. Initially I was nice with them, soft, letting them get away with things like not updating me, letting them get away with untruths and lies. Not any more.

Raise a formal complaint against the customer service rep that is assigned to your case if you feel he/she is not understand your issue, or is failing to act in a perfectly efficient and professional manner.

Good luck and keep us posted. It's the only way to make Apple aware they can't isolate you and squash you with the bulk of their bureaucracy.

Oh - I also raised a Subject Access request for all information records (eg internal emails) they hold about me or my case .. because I want to understand why they have not fixed my issue after weeks and weeks. A SAR is a legal right under the UK/EU Data Protection Act .. sure there is something similar in the USA.

I don't recommend being a nuisance in a Store as they'll just set security on you and have an excuse to ignore you.

Whatever you do don't let them every accuse you of "avuse" for the same reason. if they do challenge it immediately, and use a SAR to get copies of the emails / voice call recordings so you have proof.

 

[mcpryon2]

Here is my very very painful journey towards a refund. I haven't got one yet. [link]

The key is to collect actual indisputable evidence and post it publicly .. on forums and social media.
Apple's strategy is to make every complainant feel like only they have an issue and that these issues are rare isolated cases. The more we raise the issue the harder it is for them to divide and conquer.
And yes they will ignore your evidence, but in a court of law, and in the court of public opinion, evidence is evidence is evidence.

My strategy has been to be firm and persistent. Initially I was nice with them, soft, letting them get away with things like not updating me, letting them get away with untruths and lies. Not any more.

Raise a formal complaint against the customer service rep that is assigned to your case if you feel he/she is not understand your issue, or is failing to act in a perfectly efficient and professional manner.

Good luck and keep us posted. It's the only way to make Apple aware they can't isolate you and squash you with the bulk of their bureaucracy.

Oh - I also raised a Subject Access request for all information records (eg internal emails) they hold about me or my case .. because I want to understand why they have not fixed my issue after weeks and weeks. A SAR is a legal right under the UK/EU Data Protection Act .. sure there is something similar in the USA.

I don't recommend being a nuisance in a Store as they'll just set security on you and have an excuse to ignore you.

Whatever you do don't let them every accuse you of "avuse" for the same reason. if they do challenge it immediately, and use a SAR to get copies of the emails / voice call recordings so you have proof.

Thanks for the input. I very well could abuse my position in a media/news organization, but I haven’t stooped to that yet.

It’s getting so aggravating that it will soon turn into a crusade for me.

Now, off to carefully plot out my course of action...

 

[seadragon]

Seriously...What a disgrace these machines are. So disappointed with Apple.

 

[parajba]

I am still within my 14 days...I think I am going to return my MBP nTB 13 (i7/16/512) because of all these complaints
It will be an agony as I LOVE this laptop :-/

 

[doitdada]

Touch bar feels like some tech from a sci-fi movie that would never work out in real life.

 

[newellj]

I don't know how people are getting refunds past the first two weeks, let alone free stuff and comps. I just got off the phone with Apple again and they basically told me to go f myself.

Is the secret yelling at them instead of being nice?

Who are you all emailing, anyway?

Who are you calling?

What gives, yo?

I talked with the person on the phone about the old video card time bombs and said this keyboard reminds me of that. The rep then did say that there are for sure more problems with this keyboard than any other model before and that it was unsure if Apple will acknowledge it (I think we all know the answer to that).

I then expressed my displeasure about feeling forced into buying an extended warranty for a computer I don't want. My dilemma is that or sell it for a big loss. "Yes, I understand...so, would you like to complete this transaction now?"

My refund suggestions and/or requests to return for an iMac are universally rejected.

I guess maybe next I just walk into the Apple Store, slap down my box and just start ranting or walk out, leaving it behind.

A possession shouldn't be bothering me this much, but it's like I'm taking crazy pills.

I would definitely try walking into the store with the computer and firmly but politely (and publicly) explaining and escalating (in seniority, not volume or hostility) until I'd run out of options.
[doublepost=1510273896][/doublepost]

I am still within my 14 days...I think I am going to return my MBP nTB 13 (i7/16/512) because of all these complaints
It will be an agony as I LOVE this laptop :-/

I have only three things to say to you, and you're not going to like them, for several good reasons.

2015

2015

and 2015