Keyboard - Nail in the Coffin

[Naimfan]

I don't know how people are getting refunds past the first two weeks, let alone free stuff and comps. I just got off the phone with Apple again and they basically told me to go f myself.

. . .

A possession shouldn't be bothering me this much, but it's like I'm taking crazy pills.

I let them try to clean mine (a 2016 15"), replace the top case, replace the top case again, and then go through "Capture Data". When none of those worked, I requested a replacement through the advisor, and when I went to the store, funnily enough, they had a 2017 model waiting for me. It is now sold; I sincerely hope the new user does not have any issues.

 

[parajba]

I would definitely try walking into the store with the computer and firmly but politely (and publicly) explaining and escalating (in seniority, not volume or hostility) until I'd run out of options.
[doublepost=1510273896][/doublepost]

I have only three things to say to you, and you're not going to like them, for several good reasons.

2015

2015

and 2015

Had it for only 5 days but the 2017 laptop has been impeccable. The fan does not even turn on. Screen is awesome. Keyboard is fine. Super fast overall.

It would be interesting to see the % of the users who do have problems with the 2017 keyboard. I counted 5-6 on here...and I know for a fact that people that experience problems are more likely to go on forums and complain about it...I mean they must have sold millions of these laptops worldwide...I am trying as hard as I can to rationalise this because:

1) if I return it I will have to go back to my 2010 MBP until the new iteration of MBP comes out (June 2018?)

2) did I say how much I like this new form factor?

I really appreciate your comments. 9 days to decide :-/

 

[polbit]

I've had my '17 for 3 months, use it heavily but indoors only, and not one issue with the keyboard. I do have to say though, while I do enjoy typing on it for shorter periods, long typing sessions definitely are harder on my fingertips. If I didn't have a desk setup for it with external monitor and keyboard for longer sessions, I'd probably be complaining more.

 

[doitdada]

I've had my '17 for 3 months, use it heavily but indoors only, and not one issue with the keyboard. I do have to say though, while I do enjoy typing on it for shorter periods, long typing sessions definitely are harder on my fingertips. If I didn't have a desk setup for it with external monitor and keyboard for longer sessions, I'd probably be complaining more.

How do you like your Note 8? Did you switch from iPhone?

 

[newellj]

Had it for only 5 days but the 2017 laptop has been impeccable. The fan does not even turn on. Screen is awesome. Keyboard is fine. Super fast overall.

It would be interesting to see the % of the users who do have problems with the 2017 keyboard. I counted 5-6 on here...and I know for a fact that people that experience problems are more likely to go on forums and complain about it...I mean they must have sold millions of these laptops worldwide...I am trying as hard as I can to rationalise this because:

1) if I return it I will have to go back to my 2010 MBP until the new iteration of MBP comes out (June 2018?)

2) did I say how much I like this new form factor?

I really appreciate your comments. 9 days to decide :-/

I really, really like the new form factor, too. The 15" has gotten to the point where it's almost the size of the 2015 and earlier 13", which is amazing. And if I needed higher video support than the 2015 supports, the 2017 models might be a must - but I don't. And the tradeoffs are the new keyboard with little travel and questionable durability, smaller batteries and lower runtime in some models, and cooling issues in some models. That's why when I needed a replacement for my 2.9/512/8 13" rMBP early 2015 I wound up replacing it with a 3.1/1tb/16 13" early 2015 refurb.

 

[polbit]

How do you like your Note 8? Did you switch from iPhone?

You want to ask me about the Note on MacRumors?

Really enjoying it. I've switched back and forth before, but had 6 Plus, 6S Plus, and 7 Plus last few years. iPhone X is too small for me (not a competitor to the Plus, more like the regular phone), and 8 Plus is just more of the same. Hopefully there will a Plus-sized iPhone next year, but right now, the Note is easily the best phone I've had.

 

[rillrill]

So, no refund. I really would prefer one. Anyway, they are replacing the entire bottom - costs $575 if you are out of warranty- big FU to Apple for that. At least it’s under warranty, but I’m going to sell it as soon as I get it back and not look twice at a new MacBook ever again. Might be my last Apple laptop too. Trust is broken.

 

[project_2501]

So, no refund. I really would prefer one. Anyway, they are replacing the entire bottom - costs $575 if you are out of warranty- big FU to Apple for that. At least it’s under warranty, but I’m going to sell it as soon as I get it back and not look twice at a new MacBook ever again. Might be my last Apple laptop too. Trust is broken.

same here... no refund. Despite their tech staff agreeing there was a problem. I've attached the report that the tech team wrote .. yet Customer Support decided to ignore ..
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2017-macbook-pro-13-non-tb-review.2056971/page-9#post-25441860

That's ho bad Apple are - they will ignore facts.

And same here .. ticking warranty time bomb. Apple have broken serious trust and I will go back to Dell/Lenovo machines .. they may never be as good as MacBook Pros once were .. but at least they'll be 4 times cheaper.

I will still try a small claims court against Apple as I now have lots of supporting evidence...

 

[parajba]

And same here .. ticking warranty time bomb. Apple have broken serious trust and I will go back to Dell/Lenovo machines .. they may never be as good as MacBook Pros once were .. but at least they'll be 4 times cheaper.

I checked before purchasing the 2017 MBP and unfortunately a similarly spec'ed Lenovo or Dell cost nearly as much as a MBP.

Yes. I saw many entry levels 'plasticky' laptop PCs for around £500 but they are very entry-level...

 

[ghanwani]

I had a bunch of problems with the 2016's but the 2017 has been pretty solid so far.

Did they make any changes to the keyboard on the 2017 machines?

 

[Queen6]

same here... no refund. Despite their tech staff agreeing there was a problem. I've attached the report that the tech team wrote .. yet Customer Support decided to ignore ..
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2017-macbook-pro-13-non-tb-review.2056971/page-9#post-25441860

That's ho bad Apple are - they will ignore facts.

And same here .. ticking warranty time bomb. Apple have broken serious trust and I will go back to Dell/Lenovo machines .. they may never be as good as MacBook Pros once were .. but at least they'll be 4 times cheaper.

I will still try a small claims court against Apple as I now have lots of supporting evidence...

Give it a couple of years and Apple's customers are faced with paying for the keyboard's to be replaced themselves, then the temperature will rise.

As for Apple they will absolutely avoid any public acknowledgement until faced with certain loss of legal action. Most likely replacing the failed items with the same poorly designed components exactly as Apple has done with multiple dGPU debacles.

Q-6

 

[project_2501]

Give it a couple of years and Apple's customers are faced with paying for the keyboard's to be replaced themselves, then the temperature will rise.

As for Apple they will absolutely avoid any public acknowledgement until faced with certain loss of legal action. Most likely replacing the failed items with the same poorly designed components exactly as Apple has done with multiple dGPU debacles.

Q-6

So much for the cuddly wholesome image they project....

 

[Queen6]

So much for the cuddly wholesome image they project....

Just business same as many others, Apple's simply better than it's competition at manipulating the crowd. I've said for some years now, Apple's best selling product is Apple, the rest is secondary...

Q-6

 

[rillrill]

By the way, i looked into 2015 MacBook Pros; this design flaw is pushing up the price on those. Not worth it... it really is a terrible time to need a computer. i should have never sold my iPad Air 2. i loved that thing and it did enough for my uses...

 

[mcpryon2]

Today I got a call from Apple Customer Relations, but I missed it since I was doing a live broadcast at work. I returned the call within the time frame they set, but the person was gone...and is on vacation most of the week after today. I'm guessing they want to stop my email onslaught, so I should probably make an outline of my complaints and ideal outcome for when I get on the phone with them.

My ultimate goal is still to return the MBP for an iMac, but I wonder how likely that is. At the bare minimum I'll be asking for free AppleCare because I have no confidence in the keyboard and the repair (again) likelihood and cost scares me. Hopefully the fact that they called me is a step in the right direction.

 

[DougFNJ]

I’ll say this for Apple, I have found them to be more flexible on their policies than most other organizations for the most part. And like other organizations, they have their shortcomings as well, that flexibility is not consistent from one case to the next, and one rep to the next.

I find when I call Apple Support and get someone from an external call center outside the country. They are better than most of these call centers, but many times I am frustrated after the call. When talking to support in Texas, I tend to get farther and am usually more satisfied after the call.

In store is typically dependent on the tech I’m working with, but usually have great experiences with them as well.

When you get that superior service experience with resolution, Apple is the greatest company in the world. But when you get that maddening experience with no resolution on site......read through this thread to get the message.

At least AppleCare plus they sell now covers accidental damage, so it’s much better than just an extended warranty now. That at least sweetens the pain a little more.

My observations are that the 2017 keyboard has been dramatically improved over the 2016. In this thread and others, the 2016 keyboard has been the primary discussion of failure. The 2017 seems to be the exception. I am curious if moving forward Apple will keep this keyboard or give some sort of option of another.

 

[newellj]

In the past couple of months, I've spent a fair bit of time in Apple Stores and because I've been looking for a 16GB laptop upgrade I've been looking at the 15" and 13" rMBPs while I've been dealing with repairs on my Mini, replacing a Gen 5 iPT that died and buying and then exchanging an AW. I have run into several 2017 display computers that have had keyboard defects. Honestly, if Apple can't even keep the display models in the stores working, I am not going to take a bet on the 2017 rMPB models. This is too bad, because there is a lot of nice stuff going on with the 2017 models. But I don't want to buy a series of repair "experiences."

 

[prism]

After using my 2016 nTB MBP everyday for almost a year I have to say that the butterfly keyboard is IMHO the absolute worst, and one of the cheapest feeling keyboards I have ever used. Just shows the wonders that marketing can do, especially when the source is a reality distortion field.

I really miss the old keyboards and it seems that each iteration is a step backwards. Sacrificing comfort for design, all thanks to Jonny boy.

 

[Poki]

Do we really need one more thread for this? There are already like a million threads here about this topic. As always, that's a very subjective feeling, as some, myself included, think that this is the best keyboard on the market. And talking about something so subjective for the millionth time won't get us anywhere.

 

[Naimfan]

Do we really need one more thread for this? There are already like a million threads here about this topic. As always, that's a very subjective feeling, as some, myself included, think that this is the best keyboard on the market. And talking about something so subjective for the millionth time won't get us anywhere.

Would you prefer if they wrote it is the least reliable keyboard ever?

 

[green86]

Would you prefer if they wrote it is the least reliable keyboard ever?

Here you go again. You can't backup these claims, so don't make them.

 

[prism]

Do we really need one more thread for this? There are already like a million threads here about this topic. As always, that's a very subjective feeling, as some, myself included, think that this is the best keyboard on the market. And talking about something so subjective for the millionth time won't get us anywhere.

Who are you to tell me that I should not express myself because many others before me have done so already? This is entirely my POV and just because you clearly don’t share it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be pointed out. The keyboard redesign was a radical departure from what it should be, enough said.

 

[Falhófnir]

Here you go again. You can't backup these claims, so don't make them.

Considering the frequency that its commented on, and the fact Apple themselves have a page on using compressed air to free stuck keys, I'd say there's a decent body of evidence that the keyboard has an issue that can manifest under certain circumstances and isn't particularly uncommon. On that basis I don't think talking about there being a reliability issue is unreasonable.

 

[green86]

Considering the frequency that its commented on, and the fact Apple themselves have a page on using compressed air to free stuck keys, I'd say there's a decent body of evidence that the keyboard has an issue that can manifest under certain circumstances and isn't particularly uncommon. On that basis I don't think talking about there being a reliability issue is unreasonable.

The frequency of the vocal few in a forum does not correlation make.

 

[Falhófnir]

The frequency of the vocal few in a forum does not correlation make.

And apple themselves issuing a support page for stuck keys?