Kuo: Apple AR Headset Coming in Late 2022 With Mac-Level Computing Power

[topdrawer]

1. Traditional computer gaming: obvious
2. Fitness/aerobics: this overlaps with gaming. It's a lot easier to be motivated within a VR environment where you're boxing or slashing to a beat. You'll want a light and comfortable headset for this.
3. Virtual movie theater screen to watch any of your video files on. I think the hardest issue here is optics. Screens can already be higher quality than movie theater projections, but I think optics/lenses will be a one of the most difficult problems to overcome for VR.
4. Use a virtual multi-monitor setup anywhere. (or really, just place individual app windows anywhere at any size)

This isn't an exhaustive list, there are also a lot of possibilities in creative and social apps.
I went to a couple of Reggie Watts comedy/music shows in VR. I've watched movies in a virtual theater with friends. I've played poker and other card games in VR.

Those sound great but they altready exist on pc with lots of pc developers and non of yhem are gonna support an apple only device.

Apples big issue in these kinds of market is that the developer tools are heavily monopolized by windows users to the point that even mac developers will create AR experiences on unity using microsofts C# instead of ARKit with Swift.

Apple will never compete in this arena unless they fully support crossplatform development like microsoft has. Microsoft even has better documentation of apple frameworks than apple does. Most of the apps in the app store arent developed in xcode, just compiled, and thats pretty pathetic.

 

[skitidetdu]

And before iPhone the majority of apple’s revenue came from other things.

Well yes that is pretty obvious...

 

[cmaier]

Well yes that is pretty obvious...

There was a point that follows from that, which apparently was not too obvious to the person I was replying to.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

but how many people want to spend $1000 for such limited use? How many can?

I think the better question would be, how many people would NEED to spend $1000 in order to support the business? The initial sales of the iPod weren’t so great, but they were good enough for Apple to continue to iterate on the idea. The Apple TV hasn’t taken over the world, but it’s doing well enough at it’s price for Apple to toss it an upgrade every now and then. As long as Apple can do it profitably for a large enough number of people, that’s all that’s needed.

Of EVERYONE in the world, if there’s ONLY 15 million that don’t currently own any VR/AR hardware that would be willing to spend $1000 on “whatever Apple makes” (which isn’t really a stretch), that’s a 15 billion dollar untapped market. Even taking into account the R&D, hardware and support, that’d be a nice business to have.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

I’d imagine that there’d be two glasses sitting in a row: Corrective glasses and then AR screen. An iPhone screen is already multilayered, so shouldn’t be rocket-science. Guess Apple could collaborate with opticians for non-standard correctives (e.g. deviating cylinder etc.).

AR simple. It just has a projector that shoots an image directly into the eye. Google Glasses did it that way.

But making AR glasses that don't look goofy is the hard part.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

1. Traditional computer gaming: obvious
2. Fitness/aerobics: this overlaps with gaming. It's a lot easier to be motivated within a VR environment where you're boxing or slashing to a beat. You'll want a light and comfortable headset for this.
3. Virtual movie theater screen to watch any of your video files on. I think the hardest issue here is optics. Screens can already be higher quality than movie theater projections, but I think optics/lenses will be a one of the most difficult problems to overcome for VR.
4. Use a virtual multi-monitor setup anywhere. (or really, just place individual app windows anywhere at any size)

Everything above has existed on Oculus for 6 years on the PC, which is the most widest used operating system in the world. Sales have been pretty poor despite the headset being very light and the graphics pretty good.

It's just too damn uncomfortable to use VR. It feels horrible at the end of a session and it really messed up with your hair. You literally have to shower and blow dry after using VR just to fix the dent that goes all the way around your head and into your hair.

 

[Jensend]

Everything above has existed on Oculus for 6 years on the PC, which is the most widest used operating system in the world. Sales have been pretty poor despite the headset being very light and the graphics pretty good.

It's just too damn uncomfortable to use VR. It feels horrible at the end of a session and it really messed up with your hair. You literally have to shower and blow dry after using VR just to fix the dent that goes all the way around your head and into your hair.

I don't consider any of the major headsets to be very light, which you don't seem to either because your next paragraph is about how uncomfortable VR is. There's a dent in your hair because of the pressure needed to hold the heavy front of the headset.

Sales for the Quest 2 are approaching 10 million, which I believe is more than the first iPhone.
The Quest

Everything above has existed on Oculus for 6 years on the PC

Point four didn't, because you were still tethered to a hefty PC. Resolution still isn't good enough. And the question isn't if these applications have existed, but it's more about how well they are implemented thus far.
Most phones could do most of what the iPhone did, but how well?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

It’s definitely the fitness aspect. The watch does a lot but it’s a great workout tracking and audio companion. The rings system is also a surprisingly good motivator.

But yeah, the headset thing has me a bit confused.

Riiight, so all these people wearing Apple Watches are doing so for the fitness aspect?! How bizarre!

I do a lot of intense exercise, and it would never occur to me to want some sort of fitness monitor. But hey, each to their own. I guess I simply enjoy the exercise I do, so don't need the external motivation.

 

[boss.king]

Riiight, so all these people wearing Apple Watches are doing so for the fitness aspect?! How bizarre!

I do a lot of intense exercise, and it would never occur to me to want some sort of fitness monitor. But hey, each to their own. I guess I simply enjoy the exercise I do, so don't need the external motivation.

I'm not saying everyone who owns a watch uses it for that, but it's certainly one of its bigger features. Exercise tracking isn't exactly a new thing, people have been doing it on their phones for years now and with pen and paper before that, a watch just makes it more convenient.

 

[Jensend]

The control system would also be a big question (both for this and gaming).

Yes, this is what I'm most worried/curious about. There haven't been many rumors about possible controllers.

I think rather than a virtual multi-monitor setup, it would be an awesome tool for 3D artists (VFX work, game artists, etc). I just have to wonder how big of an audience that really is. But then again, they do sell a stupidly expensive monitor, so maybe I'm underestimating how niche they're willing to go.

Sure. A multi-monitor setup isn't very exciting, but I think it is something that Apple could do and a lot of their customers could benefit from. There are more exciting possibilities for 3D artists, but I don't know that Apple has much to contribute to the software. For a while Oculus was promoting a hybrid approach, where you'd basically have your traditional 3D modeling/animation application in a floating 2D window interface, augmented with a 3D view.

I'm really curious to know more about the virtual theatre experience. Is there a website or something that you could link me to? Or was it something more hacked together?

Bigscreen VR is the one I've used. Steam also has a built in virtual screen that I've used to play a couple of desktop computer games.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I genuinely wonder what they believe the killer feature or use is for this.

killer feature: Fully immersive and discreet content displayed.

. No more people in public able to overlook your shoulder to see content.
(sure you can use specific 3M screen covers, not everyone knows or likes this as it blurs head-on content being displayed)
. use with Airpods/AirPodsPro/BeatsStudio/BeatsFitStudio's for audible content (audible/etc).
. Maps are not fully heads up, while phone or watch stays where it's concealed and discrete.

Think of it when the very first Bluetooth headphones came on the market by Ericsson or the 2nd generation which were much smaller when walking in public. Many would think someone was talking to themselves going crazy. Now it's normal.

You're walking looking for a club, retail store in a new city/country you've never been before, meeting a date, an UberEats/Skip/DoorDash delivery person ... driving speed, traffic alerts/road-cautions/etc are heads up! no more distracting driving yet VERY discreet and personal information is displayed or audibly/visually relayed. now when you take off the AppleAR glasses the content is OFF like when lowering your wrist on Apple Watch or pressing the Sleep/Wake button on your phone.

As the ol expression goes ... AppleAR is 'For Your Eyes, Only!"

Savvy?!

PS: I've said it before several times the last 2yrs ... Apple's AR will pair directly with a larger screen more advanced battery technology in the Apple Watch (Without iPhone) AND/OR with iPhone. it'll use voice commands (if Siri gets better advanced! tired if invoking 'hey Siri' to carry out a task that is obvious) or hand gestures or even ASL!

 

[DeepIn2U]

Adult entertainment will never be the same again. So I have heard.

" Oh Hank are you resting? He looks so cute!" ROFLMAO - The 6TH Day.

 

[DeepIn2U]

How is everyone here not seeing how huge this is?

Read carefully. “4K each eye” “see through”

It’s going to be pass through. Meaning you’ll wear it outside and it will completely cover your eyes.

It’s not an overlay, your essentially watching two 4K screens from cameras on the outside.

like the movie on Netflix featured in my signature that has shown us a brief preview of how police inforcement would implement AR in a real future - seeing crimes of those fully immersed or from a victims view (homocide) or using internet and dark web to find sources, leaks info etc.

Microsoft has made HUGE strides with Holo and both Nike and Dell (have no idea what dell has really improved to be honest) in using Holo Glasses. I'm sure hospitals and doctors on the cutting edge have used them. Having laser and other robots to have non-inversive surgeries is cutting down costs and improving safety ... still niche but eventually will be the norm.

 

[boss.king]

killer feature: Fully immersive and discreet content displayed.

. No more people in public able to overlook your shoulder to see content.
(sure you can use specific 3M screen covers, not everyone knows or likes this as it blurs head-on content being displayed)
. use with Airpods/AirPodsPro/BeatsStudio/BeatsFitStudio's for audible content (audible/etc).
. Maps are not fully heads up, while phone or watch stays where it's concealed and discrete.

Think of it when the very first Bluetooth headphones came on the market by Ericsson or the 2nd generation which were much smaller when walking in public. Many would think someone was talking to themselves going crazy. Now it's normal.

You're walking looking for a club, retail store in a new city/country you've never been before, meeting a date, an UberEats/Skip/DoorDash delivery person ... driving speed, traffic alerts/road-cautions/etc are heads up! no more distracting driving yet VERY discreet and personal information is displayed or audibly/visually relayed. now when you take off the AppleAR glasses the content is OFF like when lowering your wrist on Apple Watch or pressing the Sleep/Wake button on your phone.

As the ol expression goes ... AppleAR is 'For Your Eyes, Only!"

Savvy?!

PS: I've said it before several times the last 2yrs ... Apple's AR will pair directly with a larger screen more advanced battery technology in the Apple Watch (Without iPhone) AND/OR with iPhone. it'll use voice commands (if Siri gets better advanced! tired if invoking 'hey Siri' to carry out a task that is obvious) or hand gestures or even ASL!

Those all sound like things that would be great on a glasses-style device, but that’s not what’s being rumoured here. The rumours are for an Oculus Quest style device with pass-through cameras, and while you could probably still do those things, you’d look like the worlds biggest nerd and a great target for muggers. Like I’ve said before, I don’t think the issue here is going to be the technology, it’s going to be convincing people to strap a computer to their face and then go out in public.

 

[mazz0]

So we’re looking at what, $2,000 - $3,000 I’d guess, based on those specs and all the other tech to be included. I wonder what market they’re targeting, and (as others have said) what they think the killer app is.

 

[Neonblue]

I really enjoyed my Oculus but as a previous poster has said in its current form it‘s limited with many features needing to be refined.

I can really see the Apple headset as product I take with me when travelling, for example I loved watching movies on the Oculus on an IMAX sized screen at home. Im also sure Fitness+ and Apple Arcade will be deeply integrated. This is going to be a really exciting new product category for Apple, I can‘t wait.

 

[Harvey Zoltan]

I’m not sure I see the problem. “The cloud” is mostly marketing lingo for servers that store data. Any device that can connect to the internet can access “the cloud.”

The component that phones have that most other devices don’t have is a modem, which allows our phones to connect to the internet from any location where we can receive the signal.

Remember, Apple bought Intel’s 5G modem division in 2019. Within the next 2-3 years, Apple will have their modem designed in-house and probably fabricated by TSMC. Those will obviously go into future iPhones, but more importantly, they will go into AR/VR glasses as well. You will not need to be tethered to your phone in order to access your personal iCloud account. The Glasses will have everything they need to do that on their own.

Yeah I didn't word that very well what I was really thinking the phone would be used for was it's processing power.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Those all sound like things that would be great on a glasses-style device, but that’s not what’s being rumoured here. The rumours are for an Oculus Quest style device with pass-through cameras, and while you could probably still do those things, you’d look like the worlds biggest nerd and a great target for muggers. Like I’ve said before, I don’t think the issue here is going to be the technology, it’s going to be convincing people to strap a computer to their face and then go out in public.

Ahh.

I agree then. If Apple does what this rumor lists then it’s a HUGE opportunity lost!

Just about every company in the AR field has tried to convince ppl to strap a computer to their face and I highly doubt Apple with great UI will change that.

 

[ponzicoinbro]

I think the better question would be, how many people would NEED to spend $1000 in order to support the business? The initial sales of the iPod weren’t so great, but they were good enough for Apple to continue to iterate on the idea. The Apple TV hasn’t taken over the world, but it’s doing well enough at it’s price for Apple to toss it an upgrade every now and then. As long as Apple can do it profitably for a large enough number of people, that’s all that’s needed.

Of EVERYONE in the world, if there’s ONLY 15 million that don’t currently own any VR/AR hardware that would be willing to spend $1000 on “whatever Apple makes” (which isn’t really a stretch), that’s a 15 billion dollar untapped market. Even taking into account the R&D, hardware and support, that’d be a nice business to have.

How many people already got bored with Oculus and PlayStation VR?

It doesn’t look like an untapped market. It looks like one that has had many chances but just isn’t practical after so many attempts. It makes kids feel nausea. Most adults hate it. You can’t ask people over 50 to use it, they suffer from enough neck and back pain already. So it appeals only to one small section of the public, mostly in the early 20s and many of them grow out of it after a few years.

It’s not good to compare VR to the iPod. That was the nature successor to the Walkman. Everyone was waiting for the MP3 player to come in smaller and simpler. The iPdo doesn’t get in the way of anything. VR does get in the way. If you have used it enough you’ll understand it’s not better than the alternatives.

Playing games with a keyboard and mouse is faster and more precise than gaming in VR.

Video conferencing and white board sharing is more efficient than doing it in 3D - costs nothing, no discomfort and doesn’t need to use 200 watts of GPU.

 

[topdrawer]

How many people already got bored with Oculus and PlayStation VR?

It doesn’t look like an untapped market. It looks like one that has had many chances but just isn’t practical after so many attempts. It makes kids feel nausea. Most adults hate it. You can’t ask people over 50 to use it, they suffer from enough neck and back pain already. So it appeals only to one small section of the public, mostly in the early 20s and many of them grow out of it after a few years.

It’s not good to compare VR to the iPod. That was the nature successor to the Walkman. Everyone was waiting for the MP3 player to come in smaller and simpler. The iPdo doesn’t get in the way of anything. VR does get in the way. If you have used it enough you’ll understand it’s not better than the alternatives.

Playing games with a keyboard and mouse is faster and more precise than gaming in VR.

Video conferencing and white board sharing is more efficient than doing it in 3D - costs nothing, no discomfort and doesn’t need to use 200 watts of GPU.

I keep saying content. 3d interactive content (not to say games) is expensive and oversaturated. niche products are very high risk and unlike movies/shows/music, they aren't experiences that can be distributed indefinitely over lots of products. when a VR game looses it's luster, it is done for good, unlike tv shows that get relicensed and rewatched over different services and media over and over. it just doesn't compare.

and like I've mentioned before, the content makers aren't using apple frameworks and nothing high budget would every be. if a unity game fails on the Nintendo switch, it can easily be ported to other consoles, pc or even mobile. if a SpriteKit/scenekit game fails on apple hardware, it ain't gonna get ported to other platforms, it'd be starting over from scratch and this is the kind of risk no one is going to bother with.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

I don't consider any of the major headsets to be very light, which you don't seem to either because your next paragraph is about how uncomfortable VR is. There's a dent in your hair because of the pressure needed to hold the heavy front of the headset.

Neither is true. The Oculus was very light at only 470 grams and I didn't strap it tighter than the minimum needed. What I highlighted is a permanent unresolvable problem of using headsets.

 

[happygodavid]

I genuinely wonder what they believe the killer feature or use is for this.

It's the first step toward getting rid of the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Macs, the Apple TV, and TVs in general. In 50 years, we'll all be sitting in "movie theaters" and "stadiums" in our living rooms. No screens. Just glasses.

 

[boss.king]

It's the first step toward getting rid of the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Macs, the Apple TV, and TVs in general. In 50 years, we'll all be sitting in "movie theaters" and "stadiums" in our living rooms. No screens. Just glasses.

Yeah, but you can’t sell a device now on a promise for 2072.

 

[sgodsell]

Anyone who has worn an Oculus knows this is the next thing, its like when Steve saw the GUI for the first time. Now I think you can see Oculus a bit as Xerox. They got a lot of stuff right, but navigation is terrible, UI is terrible, mainstream reach is terrible, weight of the set is terrible. This is where Apple comes in, refines the technology so it becomes usable, makes the main stream adopt it by Appstore. As for usage, who wouldn't like infinite extra screens setup while working, having blueprints show up as an overlay while working on the car, having notifications and phone integration. I can think of a zillion thing that this could be used for and problems it would solve.

Clearly you never used the any Oculus Quest, especially since you can use your hands and fingers now to navigate around the UI. They keep on improving the Quest 2 software, it even supports AR as well now. The Quest 3, or next version is suppose to have better AR capabilities, and it will be a MR (Mixed Reality) headset. From the sounds of Apples first headset, it looks to be an MR headset as well. NOT just AR, it looks to be both AR and VR, so its really a MR headset, which makes more sense, because AR alone will never take off. VR brings a lot to the table that AR can never bring to the table.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

It's the first step toward getting rid of the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Macs, the Apple TV, and TVs in general. In 50 years, we'll all be sitting in "movie theaters" and "stadiums" in our living rooms. No screens. Just glasses.

No chance.

Just read hundreds of stories online of gamers and streamers getting burned out in front of their screen and imagine how it will feel the way you put it.

‘I am not gonna die on the internet for you!’: how game streaming went from dream job to a burnout nightmare

Gamers are making millions by playing on livestream platforms such as Twitch. But when fame and money counts on you always being on, can you ever switch off?

www.theguardian.com

As pointed out by others above.

Kids can't do this.

Aging people can't do this.

Old people can't do this.

People with real lives can't do this.

People who like to socialize in person can't do this.

Many will be shouting Death to Allegra Geller at this space.

VR will always be a very limited use case because it's uncomfortable to use for any long amount of time.

We are going to be multi-device users for as long as you can think of.

AR will succeed better but there will be many visual bugs for a long time.

We can't even get desktop operating systems without visual bugs after 50 years of development.

Time for an Expectations vs Reality Meme