Kuo: Apple Mixed-Reality Headset May Not Appear at WWDC as Mass Production Pushed Back Yet Again

[citysnaps]

The few times Apple it Timmy have commented on the matter it’s been about how VR is too isolating from the real world.

“Cook also expressed skepticism that people will want to spend extended periods of time in VR in the future. “[VR is] something you can really immerse yourself in. And that can be used in a good way. But I don’t think you want to live your whole life that way,” he told Bright. “VR is for set periods, but not a way to communicate well.”

Why people don’t take that philosophy to heart when discussing whatever this product will be is beyond me.

“There's virtual reality and there's augmented reality -- both of these are incredibly interesting," Cook said in the interview. "But my own view is that augmented reality is the larger of the two, probably by far."

These aren’t sly marketing comments about upcoming products, these are straight from the horses mouth *philosophical* stances on VR.

It's mind boggling people willfully insist on ignoring that.

I suspect it has to do with many people wanting it to be about VR with bulky goggles so that it can be easily dismissed a'priori as just another Apple flop (like iPod, iPhone, Tablet, Watch, etc).

 

[NT1440]

Your question is spot on. (IMO wisely) Apple is betting on the come with this new technology: a new interface between humans and their evolving electronic world. Apple is large enough and wealthy enough to invest in such endeavors.

The U-tube idiots and other wags will of course be vociferously critical of the invariable imperfections of the v1 device; that is who they are, what they do. In particular many will analogize to VR as it is known today, because that is unfortunately all their minds can foresee. Long term, however, the potential is huge and Apple must go there.

Folks with imagination can study up on AR, and should be able to envision many potential future usages. Only our own imaginations limit us.

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. Apple has been working on a wholistic AR UI with Stanford research as a partner for 10 years now.

I said it before, and I’ll say it again, Apples vision of the future *starts* with whatever AR device gets announced (unlikely at WWDC), but the real exciting stuff comes a few years down the road when all of their various sensors across their platforms are working together and actual AR glasses are viable.

I saw AirTags as a convenient way to map out the world and build out the distributed sensor network protocols behind the scenes. Sneaky, but clever.

 

[citysnaps]

A lot of lack of imagination here.

Amen to that. And it appears to be a badge of honor, of sorts.

 

[NT1440]

It's mind boggling people willfully insist on ignoring that.

I suspect it has to do with many people wanting it to be about VR with bulky goggles so that it can be easily dismissed a'priori as another Apple flop (like iPod, iPhone, Tablet, Watch, etc).

That and gamers (whom the world apparently revolves around in their eyes) aren’t exactly the most imaginative bunch outside their narrow area of interest (gaming).

I do have to laugh at the people who say the ski goggles concept (which isn’t real) is hideous, only to talk up the Oculus or PSVr monstrosities.

Side note: I think one of the things that is going to eventually blow others out of the water is Apple’s input schemes. The VR controllers of today are ridiculous, but good for gaming and not much else. We’ll all see what I mean whenever this gen 1 comes out.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

The few times Apple it Timmy have commented on the matter it’s been about how VR is too isolating from the real world.

It's mind boggling people willfully insist on ignoring that.

Yes the waist mounted battery pack screams real world convenience !

 

[citysnaps]

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. Apple has been working on a wholistic AR UI with Stanford research as a partner for 10 years now.

I said it before, and I’ll say it again, Apples vision of the future *starts* with whatever AR device gets announced (unlikely at WWDC), but the real exciting stuff comes a few years down the road when all of their various sensors across their platforms are working together and actual AR glasses are viable.

I saw AirTags as a convenient way to map out the world and build out the distributed sensor network protocols behind the scenes. Sneaky, but clever.

I think glasses will be released sooner than expected. A prototype developed at Stanford's AR/VR lab was presented at last years SIGGRAPH conference.

I believe Apple is really close, and all that's needed is a suite of AR apps that solve useful problems, available on release date.

 

[citysnaps]

Yes the waist mounted battery pack screams real world convenience !

A battery pack ins't needed

My money, something I've been saying for more than a year, is on a set of glasses *wirelessly tethered* via UWB to a user's iPhone, which will do the heavy lift AR processing, and provide a link to the internet for data, etc. UWB is low power and could handle multiple high rate video streams and data, in both directions.

Glasses will have a much smaller battery, just big enough to power glasses display and cameras.

 

[257Loner]

I've already got my Reality Pro. It's called "reality", and it's second-to-none!

 

[citysnaps]

Side note: I think one of the things that is going to eventually blow others out of the water is Apple’s input schemes. The VR controllers of today are ridiculous, but good for gaming and not much else. We’ll all see what I mean whenever this gen 1 comes out.

I agree. Don't know what it will be, but I'm betting on it being pretty slick.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

A battery pack ins't needed

My money, something I've been saying for more than a year, is on a set of glasses *wirelessly tethered* via UWB to a user's iPhone, which will do the heavy lift AR processing, and provide a link to the internet for data, etc. UWB is low power and could handle multiple high rate video streams and data, in both directions.

Glasses will have a much smaller battery, just big enough to power glasses display and cameras.

Yeah what you are talking about is not the product that has been mooted.

The New York Times reaffirmed previous reports that the headset will feature a carbon fiber frame, a hip-mounted battery, outward-facing cameras, two 4K displays, prescription lenses for wearers of glasses, and a "reality dial" to increase or decrease real-time video pass-through from the surrounding environment.

 

[NT1440]

Yeah what you are talking about is not the product that has been mooted.

Ah, supply chain analysts rumors being printed by another publication means “this story is verified” now. Good to know!

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Ah, supply chain analysts rumors being printed by another publication means “this story is verified” now. Good to know!

I'll save your posts for when this comes out and they are right and you aren't

 

[Allen_Wentz]

A lot of lack of imagination here.

Agreed. And imagination is how things like Macintoshes and iPhones come into existence; then the world evolves. Even if the v1 glasses turn out to be more Newton-like than iPhone-like, Apple's pursuit of the device category is a very good thing.

 

[Bodhitree]

I think what Steve Jobs understood like no-one else at Apple is the concept of offering value to the customer. The iPod and the iPhone both offered a lot of value and convenience, and that is why they were successful. The mixed-reality headset is capable of being a transformative device, but so far attempts at VR and AR both have failed to deliver customer value, and it looks like being a failure on the convenience front.

Nevertheless I think there are motivational apps capable of moving the market in this space, we just haven’t seen them yet. If it launches at the right price point and with decent software, the headset could be a success.

 

[NT1440]

I'll save your posts for when this comes out and they are right and you aren't

That’s fine. I suspect if there is for some reason a battery pack it will be an optional *accessory* for extended runtime.

I don’t foresee it being required as the core product itself, but time will tell.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Yes the waist mounted battery pack screams real world convenience !

Dismissal of a waist mounted battery pack as real-world inconvenient simply identifies the commenter as grossly unimaginative and negative just for the sake of being negative. Wedding photogs, for instance, used waist mounted battery packs for many decades because the value add exceeded the inconvenience. My guess is that a scientist, for instance, looking at real-time drone data while inspecting a failed nuclear power plant would also opine that the value add exceeded the inconvenience.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I've already got my Reality Pro. It's called "reality", and it's second-to-none!

Unfortunately your "reality" has both input and output that is grossly limited relative to where tech is and even moreso to where tech is going.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Dismissal of a waist mounted battery pack as real-world inconvenient simply identifies the commenter as grossly unimaginative and negative just for the sake of being negative. Wedding photogs, for instance, used waist mounted battery packs for many decades because the value add exceeded the inconvenience. My guess is that a scientist, for instance, looking at real-time drone data while inspecting a failed nuclear power plant would also opine that the value add exceeded the inconvenience.

Your imagination is the only place that people are paying three grand for this.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I think what Steve Jobs understood like no-one else at Apple is the concept of offering value to the customer. The iPod and the iPhone both offered a lot of value and convenience, and that is why they were successful. The mixed-reality headset is capable of being a transformative device, but so far attempts at VR and AR both have failed to deliver customer value, and it looks like being a failure on the convenience front.

Nevertheless I think there are motivational apps capable of moving the market in this space, we just haven’t seen them yet. If it launches at the right price point and with decent software, the headset could be a success.

IMO prompt (simplistic) commercial success at v1 is not necessary. This is an important new category and stepwise progress is what is needed. Note Newton was a commercial failure but helped lead to other, world-changing devices that made Apple the healthiest tech firm in the world.

 

[NT1440]

Unfortunately your "reality" has both input and output that is grossly limited relative to where tech is and even moreso to where tech is going.

I don’t use it often, but the AR feature for looking at Ubiquiti network switches is a godsend. Point the phone at the switch, see what’s connected to any given port. Amazingly useful.

 

[Jensend]

For everyone on focusing so much on the AR vs VR distinction:
The "AR" on iPhones and iPads consists of computer generated graphics over a video feed.

I think the first *R device that Apple releases will show computer generated graphics over a video feed*.
Does that not count as AR for some reason?

*For an HMD, it will be a bit more complicated than that, because you have to warp the video a bit to account for the offset of the cameras from your eyes, and/or generate a 3D model of the environment from the video feed.

 

[pacalis]

The main use of these devices isn't adult content - it's the virtual meetings (with friends) part. That's what millions of active VR users are doing.

Fortni

The Apple Watch, while not being “game changing” is a bigger business on its own than the entire iPod lineup (a “game changer” if there ever was one prior to the iPhone) ever was.

In 2019 the Apple Watch sold more units than the entire Swiss watch industry, and sales have only increased since. They’re absolutely dominant *in that category*.

People lose perspective.

It's not a game changer because there is no mixed-reality game to change.

 

[NT1440]

Fortni

It's not a game changer because there is no mixed-reality game to change

Agreed, there’s really no “there” there today. That said, given how this upcoming product is viewed by VR users and the tech press as being in this space, you’ll see heavy adoption from the current VR hardware makers to pivot in whatever direction Apple is heading. So we’re kind of talking about semantics on this point.

I think Meta has already projected that it knows this direction of AR is where things will be going, I read recently about one of their headsets now offer some sort of black and white pass through so you can see around you?

Obviously it’s not baked at all yet but I think it’s *Apple who will set the standard industry wide for what an AR UX is like*. That goes beyond just visual UI elements, AR is going to require context aware elements and interactions, gesture navigation that actually makes ergonomic sense and is natural (no Hollywood nonsense), audio cues, etc. I’ll eat my hat if that’s not the case.

 

[Sweeney196788]

Your question is spot on. (IMO wisely) Apple is betting on the come with this new technology: a new interface between humans and their evolving electronic world. Apple is large enough and wealthy enough to invest in such endeavors.

The U-tube idiots and other wags will of course be vociferously critical of the invariable imperfections of the v1 device; that is who they are, what they do. In particular many will analogize to VR as it is known today, because that is unfortunately all their unimaginative minds can foresee. Long term, however, the potential is huge and Apple must go there.

Folks with imagination can study up on AR, and should be able to envision many potential future usages. Only our own imaginations limit us.

And that’s the problem your own imagination has over taken what you are expecting now. Reality is the tech is not there and you over complicate its use. AR is intresting for sure but let’s be real how will it change your every day life .. the answer is none, you going to wear glasses walk into a shop explore clothing .. when you can use your own eyes ? are Shops going to stop selling clothes and start using mirrors that require AR glasses .. sure it will work with things like video editing and movies and photos but you would need a massive set up with laptops and computers and limiting yourself to an audience who do that. Look at AR on the iPhone already it’s pretty much dead a gimmick that failed , apps were touted to use it and hardly any app uses it , why because people just look at stuff they don’t want to manipulate it. IKEA furniture the old fashion way works fine go into shops get tape measures and see what you like, AR using iPhone with ikea furniture doesn’t work and give people that normal feel for the product. Your going to need to sell the glasses or Goggles to an audience that like things simple.

Google glasses failed , Samsung VR and AR glasses failed , 3D movies failed , home TVs with 3D failed .. meta AR failing , MS mixed reality failed .. the pattern is the same and it’s not because the tech is not there it’s because you can’t sell the concept of wearing glasses to people.

AR could be used in cars on your windscreen but reality kicks in when you have to start changing laws etc. same as self driving cars why you think they are still not mainstream or no where near coming out because reality sets in

HTR we call this , human technology revolution, in which the human mind has now super passed the technology available that ideas are just that ideas and things are taken longer to come out because the human mind is ahead of what the tech can do or how to implement it. If the glasses and AR was that simple and easy for apple to do then why since 2015 has it not come out ? .. because there is a massive issue which they can’t fix

 

[groove-agent]

So past rumours said that Apple pulled staff from other departments to work on AR and now they figure there isn't a significant market for it? If this is true ... WTF Apple?

I don't think WWDC 2023 is going to be a big deal. I hope I'm wrong.

Haha 😂 if you actually believed that then you’re more gullible than first thought. wWDC 2023 will be the same as the last 5 years , it will focus on software, with the iOS , OS Mac and iPad OS shown a better connection between them and updates to music and health.

That's why I said "if this is true". Did you not read that? I don't actually believe a lot of what I read here.

Of course WWDC is software focused. Previous rumours have said that iOS (for example) will focus on bug fixes and optimization. The last few OSes have been pretty minor, not game changing. Not much of what Apple has done (aside from maybe Apple Silicon) has been game changing or significant. This is why I say WWDC is going to be a big deal.