Kuo: Apple to Launch 'iPhone SE 2' in Early 2020 With Similar Design as iPhone 8, A13 Chip, and 3GB RAM

[Baymowe335]

Not enough people want macbooks with working keyboards...or they’d exist, period.

If Apple could make more money by offering macbooks with good keyboards, they would do it. They are smarter and have more than your anecdotal data and have elected not to make it for very data driven reasons.

That could change and we will see if it does next year.

Until then, the market has spoken. Get over it.

The keyboard wasn’t a major issue, or it would have been redesigned completely long ago.
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In this particular case there would be a solid reason to complain, the size. Remember, most SE buyers prefer a smaller form factor. I had a Plus sized model for about 6 months before I traded it in to get the SE, simply because I hated carrying a big phone in my pocket.

Without bezels, the 4.7” screen easily fits in the old SE chassis.

 

[decisions]

Ive had macs for over 20 years, and i got the iPhone 3g when it was released and have upgraded regularly over the years.
i had an SE for years but it broke after it got wet. so I "upgraded" to a XS last year. I hated it.
sure it was a great device to use instead of the computer, but as a phone to carry it was terrible.. too heavy, too big.
i realized i only liked using it when i really would have been even happier just using my actual computer.

a few months ago Costco had a bunch of brand new SE so i snagged a 128gb one and I couldn't be happier.
if apple don't make another phone that is the same size this will be my last iPhone. id rather use a flip phone and take a laptop when i need more functionality than carry a giant phone every day.
an iPhone 8 sized device is not a SE replacement.

clearly there is a market for SE phones. costco sold thousands of them in every store and they were all gone in a few days. the 6 and 6s they sell are still there clogging up the shelves.

give me a waterproof SE and id be happy. even better keep the 4" screen and chop off the bezels to make it even smaller. id pay premium price for a device like that.
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why would someone fell the need to be mad that apple choose to make another SE? if they don't like it they can simply not buy it. its not like they would get rid of the other phones.

Agree with this post.

I feel like Apple created a line with the SE that they didn't really intend to; it is for people who want their phone to function well as a phone, and may have pointed out some of the issues/superfluousness with their "innovations" as of late. Don't care about FaceID? Don't care about losing your headphone jack in the name of minimalism? Don't care about having a phone too big to use comfortably with one hand? Don't want your expensive device to look less professional and be more slippery in the hand with its rounded edges? Don't want the power/lock button to be exactly where your hand is going to rest?

In other words, don't want to spend more money for features you don't want? Buy an SE, and Apple just got half the money they would have from you otherwise.

There's a reason there are die-hard fans of the SE. But it is also to see why these reasons are ones that Apple may dislike.

I believe that Apple knows the design of the SE is better than what they have released since. Currently the best piece of evidence that us SE fans have in getting a successor is the 2018 iPad Pro.

 

[manu chao]

Without bezels, the 4.7” screen easily fits in the old SE chassis.

Really?
5: case width: 58.6 mm, screen width: 49.1 mm (x 87.1 mm) -> bezel width: 4.75 mm
X: case width: 70.9 mm, screen width: 62.9 mm (x 136.2 mm) -> bezel width: 4 mm

Thus, you'd get a 1.5 mm wider screen on that iPhone 5/5s/SE chassis width with the iPhone X bezels.

The iPhone 8 4.7" screen width: 58.8 mm (x 104.6 mm). Adding that 1.5 mm to 49.1 mm doesn't get you anywhere near 58.8 mm.

 

[Baymowe335]

Really?
5: case width: 58.6 mm, screen width: 49.1 mm (x 87.1 mm) -> bezel width: 4.75 mm
X: case width: 70.9 mm, screen width: 62.9 mm (x 136.2 mm) -> bezel width: 4 mm

Thus, you'd get a 1.5 mm wider screen on that iPhone 5/5s/SE chassis width with the iPhone X bezels.

The iPhone 8 4.7" screen width: 58.8 mm (x 104.6 mm). Adding that 1.5 mm to 49.1 mm doesn't get you anywhere near 58.8 mm.

It would be close enough. The SE was 4.9" tall and 2.3" wide. The height would definitely work and it might be slightly wider, but we are talking very small amounts.

 

[pawxpaw]

the other issue is look at the rising popularity of minimalist phones. people don't need a full computer 24/7 everywhere they go. a regular phone with some basic functionality for convenience, like looking up a business phone number or directions, are all many need.
in fact many are realizing they are wasting their lives staring at screens everywhere they go.

when i switched from my XS back to a SE my data needs dropped off massively, because i wasn't wasting my time looking at stuff i really didn't need to.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

why would someone fell the need to be mad that apple choose to make another SE? if they don't like it they can simply not buy it. its not like they would get rid of the other phones.

They take it as a personal insult? I don't know, man.

 

[cocky jeremy]

I love the SE for the small size and I got a chuckle off the picture you posted. However, if you're going to post borderline obnoxious posts in the name of humor it would be best to add some note that you are just kidding around. And if you're not, you shouldn't take it personally when people are offended and respond in the same manner.

I am not a psychologist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn

I'm not taking anything personally at all. I just pointed out that it's a stupid assumption to make based on nothing.

 

[dewski]

Thanks for speaking for everyone, but you don’t.

You are incorrect. No one wants the iPhone SE because its cheap. People want it because it is small. If you want it because its cheap, you don't really want it, you are just accepting it. Anyone who actually wanted to buy the SE bought it because if its size.

 

[bluespark]

I haven't done any market research, but as others have already stated, no one is manufacturing these smaller SE-sized phones.

Assuming they've done their market research, it must be showing them that there isn't enough demand for an SE-sized flagship phone to make it worth their time, so it must be too niche.

But on the other hand, Samsung makes all sorts of stuff, so I wonder why big Samsung doesn't just stake a claim to that niche? Unless most of those people are Apple fans?

I love my iPhone SE, but will likely go for this upgraded iPhone 8 eventually, as I want to stick with my Apple ecosystem.

Steve Jobs used to talk about the fallacies of market research. It can be useful, but it very easily can lead to incorrect conclusions. For example, most people base their answers on products they already know. If you ask random people whether they would buy a small phone over a large phone, they are likely to have two particular, existing phones in mind when they respond. They aren't thinking about a hypothetical better small phone.

This is why technological leadership requires strength of conviction. If you just give people what they think they want, you'll never push the envelope very far. To really innovate, you sometimes have to say, "here's something I think I can make, and it will be [insanely] great." And then you explain it to people and you give them time to get comfortable with it. And sometimes, it won't work. But when it does, that's when the magic happens.

 

[Unami]

After waiting for a SE2 without success, I reluctantly replaced my 5s with an iPhone 8 last year. I was concerned about the size being to big using it with one hand and fitting it in my pockets. Turns out, those fears were unwarranted. Sure the top of the 5s‘ screen was easier to reach, but in daily use, that‘s not something that bothers me, ever. on the other hand, the bigger display lends to more usage besides my primary phone functions, e.g. more internet surfing & gaming, which is something i‘m not too happy about. it also drains the battery faster...

apart from that the 5s/SE design had a few advantages, imho:
-prettier
-no camera bump
-non glass back (sturdier, otoh no wireless charging
-i still miss the headphone jack from time to time, even as i got airpods. but i like to listen to audiobooks when going to bed, but don‘t want to wear out the battery and search for them in the morning, so that‘s standard earpods and no charging overnight. same with making live music and charging at the same time without going to dongle-heaven.

 

[pawxpaw]

Steve Jobs used to talk about the fallacies of market research. It can be useful, but it very easily can lead to incorrect conclusions. For example, most people base their answers on products they already know. If you ask random people whether they would buy a small phone over a large phone, they are likely to have two particular, existing phones in mind when they respond. They aren't thinking about a hypothetical better small phone.

This is why technological leadership requires strength of conviction. If you just give people what they think they want, you'll never push the envelope very far. To really innovate, you sometimes have to say, "here's something I think I can make, and it will be [insanely] great." And then you explain it to people and you give them time to get comfortable with it. And sometimes, it won't work. But when it does, that's when the magic happens.

there are small phones. look at the unihertz atom. even though it's got many flaws it's been a big seller for a small company.

and every time costco or apple have stock of SE they sell out in no time. costco had thousands in the stores this summer and all sold in a day or two.

 

[manu chao]

It would be close enough. The SE was 4.9" tall and 2.3" wide. The height would definitely work and it might be slightly wider, but we are talking very small amounts.

Ok, let's spell it out completely:

• iPhone 5 screen: 49.1 x 87.1 mm, 100 mm diagonal (aka 4"), 16:9
• iPhone 5 with X bezels: 50.6 x 115.8 mm, 126.4 mm diagonal (aka 5" minus rounded corners), 21:9
• iPhone 8 screen: 58.8 x 104.6 mm, 120 mm diagonal (aka 4.7"), 16:9
• iPhone X screen: 62.9 x 136.2 mm, 150 mm diagonal (aka 5.9" minus rounded corners), 19.5:9

 

[Baymowe335]

You are incorrect. No one wants the iPhone SE because its cheap. People want it because it is small. If you want it because its cheap, you don't really want it, you are just accepting it. Anyone who actually wanted to buy the SE bought it because if its size.

You have no idea if that's true. You are relying on anecdotal experience.

Apple knows better than you what their customers want, period.

 

[pawxpaw]

You have no idea if that's true. You are relying on anecdotal experience.

Apple knows better than you what their customers want, period.

wow you really are the definition of a rabid fan boy. every time this topic comes up people have the same arguments. and people like you try and tell others what they want. but everyone is saying they want a small phone, only people like you try and tell them its because they want a cheap phone.

as a mac user since the 90s I'd say these days apple doesn't have a clue what their users want. unfortunately with limited options we are forced to buy what they have, not because it's what we want.

apple knows what they can get away with selling to maximize their profits. it's little to do with what we want.

i had an XS, paid cash for it, hated it. went and bought a SE when i saw new ones for sale and couldn't be happier. so i guess I'm another person who doesn't exist in your tim cook worship utopia???

 

[dcpmark]

Ok, let's spell it out completely:

• iPhone 5 screen: 49.1 x 87.1 mm, 100 mm diagonal (aka 4"), 16:9
• iPhone 5 with X bezels: 50.6 x 115.8 mm, 126.4 mm diagonal (aka 5" minus rounded corners), 21:9
• iPhone 8 screen: 58.8 x 104.6 mm, 120 mm diagonal (aka 4.7"), 16:9
• iPhone X screen: 62.9 x 136.2 mm, 150 mm diagonal (aka 5.9" minus rounded corners), 19.5:9

Thanks for confirming that a 4.7” screen in this hypothetical bezel-less SE 2 would not be the same as the iP8, but would have an aspect ratio similar to the X or 11 and only be slightly larger overall than the SE of today.....shut up and take my money, Apple!

 

[bklement]

If you hold your phone like this, I think almost everybody should be able to reach the upper corners:

I would not dare to hold it this way on a subway or an escalator.

 

[dewski]

You have no idea if that's true. You are relying on anecdotal experience.

Apple knows better than you what their customers want, period.

I disagree. There is nothing the SE has that the 6s or 7 do not have. If you purchase the SE, it is either because you want the smaller screen, or you have no choice and need the cheapest phone.

 

[arkitect]

Apple knows better than you what their customers want, period.

But do they?


Related to the SE and its appeal.

I often wonder if Apple either do not care or have perhaps lost sight of a certain demographic.
Now, I realise that most Apple users are age 0 — 39 years old, and they are the market.

But: What about people like me? 40s, 50s and upwards. (Curiously, the same age as many of Apple's top executives!)

We are not all of us concerned with the latest and best processors, storage spaces etc.
We're not all busy watching movies on our iPhones or playing mind blowing games. Nor are we avidly busy editing block buster films shot on the beach… (Though some, no doubt are.)

A nice fast, handy device that delivers decent and clear communications (By which I mean it works as a phone, first and foremost), banking, ApplePay, maps and directions, email, music and takes decent photographs.

The bells and whistles don't matter that much.

For all the above the SE was (still is!) a perfect fit and why it appealed to a number of my acquaintances of similar age.

I am very happy to watch Apple release really excellent hardware and the like, but the days of salivating with envy at the latest greatest must have device are long gone.

Different priorities.

Oh, and cost is not the factor here… there is quite a bit of expendable income.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[FelicityW]

Well, I guess Apple missed the fact that were/are a significant number of us who treasured the look and feel of the old form factor. I love the edges. And I don't recall the 8 being particularly small. Certainly not like the 5/5S/SE. It may be smaller than the current lineup, but it is not small. If it doesn't fit in the back pocket of my jeans, I will never want it.

 

[jimbo1mcm]

It will be interesting to see a real world comparison of speed between the new V8 supercharged Iphone 8 and the old iphone 8. I bet it opens up everyday stuff like email and messages just as fast and you might pick up a microsecond loading a complicated game. Not enough for me to upgrade from my SE.

 

[EssModelsRule]

The 7’s aluminum chassis seems like a better choice to me. Keep it as light and durable as possible.

Go ahead and make a 5.5” plus version too. Replace the 8, 8+ and XR.

 

[JPack]

It is a bit difficult to buy what isn't made.

Market research. Can you imagine if Apple made everything in order to find out if it sells?

 

[Expos of 1969]

You have no idea if that's true. You are relying on anecdotal experience.

Apple knows better than you what their customers want, period.

Nonsense.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

Market research. Can you imagine if Apple made everything in order to find out if it sells?

As mentioned by someone earlier, market research only takes you so far, though. As Henry Ford is alleged to have said, if he asked people what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse." Or, as Wayne Gretzky said, you have to skate to where the puck will be. Apple has done this in the past. They killed their most popular iPod, the iPod mini, in order to deliver something no one was asking for, for instance.


EDIT: That is not to say that I don't believe there is a market for smaller phones. I absolutely do.

 

[Baymowe335]

wow you really are the definition of a rabid fan boy. every time this topic comes up people have the same arguments. and people like you try and tell others what they want. but everyone is saying they want a small phone, only people like you try and tell them its because they want a cheap phone.

as a mac user since the 90s I'd say these days apple doesn't have a clue what their users want. unfortunately with limited options we are forced to buy what they have, not because it's what we want.

apple knows what they can get away with selling to maximize their profits. it's little to do with what we want.

i had an XS, paid cash for it, hated it. went and bought a SE when i saw new ones for sale and couldn't be happier. so i guess I'm another person who doesn't exist in your tim cook worship utopia???

Apple knows what their customers want, better than you do, period. That’s the point. Apple has unlimited data and people looking at what the market wants. By the way, Apple has been pretty damn good at figuring out what people will buy. Results speak loudly.