Kuo: Apple to Use New Scissor Switch Keyboard in Future MacBooks, Starting With 2019 MacBook Air Refresh

[aimson911]

Good news! I've been holding onto the 2011 MBP for years even though I have needed/wanted an upgrade. Apple missed out on my money by keeping such stupid decisions on the design. I'm considering waiting for an entirely new re-design in the next couple years, as simply fixing the keyboard issue is not really enough for me.

 

[Velin]

Please let this be true. I need to upgrade the 2013 Macbook Pro.

 

[ignatius345]

Am I the only one that doesn’t care all that much about the reliability issues, since Apple is going to fix them if they crop up, but the keyboard just feels like crap to type on? I assume it’s the nonexistent key travel, but it just feels terrible. The old MBP keyboards were the best in the business.

I bought and promptly got rid of my rMB because typing on it felt like jamming my fingers onto a tabletop. It was the first and only Mac in 20+ years of buying Mac laptops that I had regretted buying — because the keyboard was so unpleasant to use.

THEN all the failures started being publicized and I was even more relieved to have gotten that thing out of my life.

 

[x-evil-x]

But why the change ?

Apple promised us that they fixed the butterfly keyboard this time . /S

We still don’t know if the 2019’s are fixed but most reports on here are they don’t have issues. I read something that previous keyboard failures(2015 and previous) was 6% while the 2016 was 11.8% and 8.1% of the 2017 models. Time will tell it the 2019’s are back in that 5% range.

 

[x-evil-x]

I think its at the point now where we have to quit worrying if someone is telling the truth or not and just assume, that probably actually happened to somebody somewhere on this earth...Some people just have an actual streak of bad luck...

Yea I’m just a skeptical person. If a close friend of mine told me that same story I’d look at them like uhhh sure.

 

[rafark]

Yes I’m sure he decided to leave Apple and form his own company over a keyboard. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

If you've read recent reports, you'd know he wasn't comfortable working at apple anymore. So yes, him leaving over a -faulty- keyboard is totally possible as I never said this was the only reason why he decided to leave. The butterfly keyboard might have been the last straw. Ive is leaving and the Mac is definitely changing, it's very obvious to me.

Ives departure wasn't decided overnight, neither were the changes to the Mac.

 

[LeonardXW]

When would this be available? I need a macbook for school by the end of August

 

[rafark]

It’s not. If it really is shipping next year it will have been something that engineering and procurement has been working on for at least a year and a half already.

Ive had been planning to leave since 2015, so it is indeed possible.
[doublepost=1562392327][/doublepost]

When would this be available? I need a macbook for school by the end of August

Me too

 

[Meus Me]

I think it's clear to everyone that the Butterfly keyboard was a result of a demand to create a thinner notebook. The mechanism itself failed from an engineering perspective, but the lack of travel alienated a whole subset of users who could not adapt to the new keys.

The entire decision making when it comes to the design of these laptops in recent years has been laughable and I hope this signals a return to common sense thinking.

Mac users already pay a premium in price. The very least Apple can do is ensure you can actually use the laptops.

 

[SweWriter]

...

I’m pretty sure these guys don’t want the function row for that purpose but to use the alternate brightness, volume, playback. They do not want to get used to anything new.

People embrace new when new is better. It is that simple.

When something has not managed to get traction in a couple of years it is not due to the stubborness of the people, it is because of a **** product.

 

[Santabean2000]

They'll fix the keyboard and break something else no doubt.

They'll fix the keyboard and break something else no doubt.

I think they’ve got their eye back on the prize.

The new MacBook Pro 16” will have a new keyboard and SD card slot too. Thin bezels, higher res. Will be

 

[LeonardXW]

I don’t need a fancy laptop, what I need is a powerful and affordable laptop for my Uni that is starting in August.

Here are the specs I am satisfy with
1. 13” or 15”
2. At least 512GB SSD
3. 16GB RAM
4. Fast integrated graphic is fine, as long as I can play Sims4 and overcooked 2. Dedicated graphic is a bonus
5. USD $ 2200

I am aware that DDR4 RAM has dropped its prices to $52. Please advise if I should wait for the next release.

 

[Rogifan]

If you've read recent reports, you'd know he wasn't comfortable working at apple anymore. So yes, him leaving over a -faulty- keyboard is totally possible as I never said this was the only reason why he decided to leave. The butterfly keyboard might have been the last straw. Ive is leaving and the Mac is definitely changing, it's very obvious to me.

Ives departure wasn't decided overnight, neither were the changes to the Mac.

The last straw for what? I read the WSJ story. It never said he was leaving Apple because of the Mac or any specific product decision. And it’s been over a week and nothing else has dropped to corroborate the WSJ reporting.

With respect to the Mac I’ve said it before and will say it again, one person alone wasn’t making product roadmap decisions for the Mac. Remember when the new Mac Pro was announced at WWDC, Phil Schiller used the phrase “can’t innovate any more my a—“. Schiller is not going to get up on stage and say that about a product designed at the whims of one person. Clearly the company as a whole thought they were thinking differently here, being innovative. Schiller was also on stage talking up the butterfly keyboard. Even if it was something Ive pushed for does Ive have the final say on what ships? Does John Gruber really think the company would ship a product they knew could be defective because Ive said so (meaning Ive was perfectly fine with shipping a defective keyboard)?

From everything I’ve read it seems there’s only one product that existed solely because Ive wanted it to and that’s the gold Apple Watch. Which, incidentally, was never shown off on stage at an Apple event.
[doublepost=1562415015][/doublepost]

Don't need to take things so serious. Steve made mistakes, but nowhere near the disaster that has been the butterfly keyboard.

You'll notice that the mistakes you point out were rectified quickly, meanwhile we're still shipping butterfly keyboards that were known to have design flaws since 2016. Meanwhile, I'm posting from a 2019 MacBook Pro hoping that I don't run into the same issues with it because I needed a portable 8-core machine with macOS.

You must forget the times Steve had to take leave of absences for medical treatment where he wasn't around all the time and things slipped through the cracks.

You still haven’t provided examples of where Steve edited Jony.
[doublepost=1562415163][/doublepost]

I am blaming Tim for not editing Jony.

When did Steve edit Jony? You have yet to provide a source for this claim.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I don’t need a fancy laptop, what I need is a powerful and affordable laptop for my Uni that is starting in August.

Here are the specs I am satisfy with
1. 13” or 15”
2. At least 512GB SSD
3. 16GB RAM
4. Fast integrated graphic is fine, as long as I can play Sims4 and overcooked 2. Dedicated graphic is a bonus
5. USD $ 2200

I am aware that DDR4 RAM has dropped its prices to $52. Please advise if I should wait for the next release.

Not sure if the iGPU is sufficient for your games, but the current 13” MBP Touch Bar 16GB RAM/512GB SSD is $2,199. I don’t think the new model will be released within the next month so that may be your only option if you’re looking for a new Mac.

If I were you, I’d go ahead and buy one now and test drive it for a week or two and see if it meets your needs. If not, return it and come up with a plan B.

 

[theluggage]

Am I the only one that doesn’t care all that much about the reliability issues, since Apple is going to fix them if they crop up, but the keyboard just feels like crap to type on?

Well, the feel is subjective, some people do say they like the new keyboard (hey, some people didn't see the problem with the hockey-puck mouse) - reliability is a more objective basis for criticism. More fundamentally, it's a moving part subject to wear and tear that Apple have glued in place. That was true with the previous gen (2009-2015) but they got away with it by being reliable. I saw lots of problems with MacBook/PowerBook keyboards before that, but, personally, the only failed 2009-2015 keyboards I saw were down to the good old 'drinking problem' (some of those got better after rehab) and I don't recall seeing many complaints online.

Still, at best the butterfly keyboard is marmite, and if you're going to roll out a single keyboard design across all of your laptops, that's not what you want.

FWIW: my initial thoughts after trying it in a shop was that I'd be prepared to give the new keyboard a go, but the reliability warnings were too widespread to ignore. However, then I got an iMac with a new Magic Keyboard, which is a sort of half-way-house between the old and new styles (still scissor, but about half the travel, slightly larger keys and 'flatter' than the old design) and gave that a good, solid, extended try before going back to my old wired keyboard. Its OK but I find the old design noticeably more comfortable and more accurate.

People embrace new when new is better. It is that simple.

Exactly. When the 'island style' keyboard appeared in the first unibody MacBooks, everybody was skeptical, lots of jokes about 'chiclets', 'Scrabble tiles' and references to the IBM PC-Junior fiasco - but, mostly, only up until the point when they actually tried one and found it night-and-day better than anything else on a laptop at that time (the previous-gen MacBook keyboards were actually pretty awful). Likewise with the removal of optical drives, Firewire, spinning hard drives - initial shock horror that pretty much melted away over the first year.

There are good reasons why people are still griping about the 2016 MBP design in 2019. They got it wrong - one part of which was throwing away the best laptop keyboard design in the business.

 

[MacGizmo]

I've had my 15" MBP for about a year now and haven't had a single issue with the keyboard. In fact, so far I consider it the best keyboard Apple has ever made (laptop or desktop).

Now the silly-@ssed LCD Control Strip, that's another story. I don't think Apple has made anything as useless as that thing since the original iMac hockey puck mouse. If I could take the control strip out and toss it in the bin, I would. If they would just make the stupid thing fully customizable it would go a long way.

That being said, I'm in the market for another laptop, and I would love to spend the money on the rumored 16" MBP.

 

[Rob_2811]

Better late than never I suppose, seems to be a reoccurring theme with the Mac. How long overdue was the MacBook Air update and the new Mac Pro fully six years after the last one.

I'll still use the iPad and phone because Apple seems to care about them but ,for me, they can't be trusted with computer hardware

 

[LeonardXW]

I am thinking, is the scissors keyboard only going back to MacBook Air but not MacBook Pro? MacBook Pro have received their upgrade recently, will it be upgraded again?

 

[elmaco]

"Kuo believes a new scissor switch keyboard will also be used in the MacBook Pro, but not until 2020."

So I will buy my next MBP in 2021, one year after the new keyboard has been battle tested.

Now I have to use my MBP from 2012 if I want a functional keyboard, since the one I bought in 2016 has been broken three times.

 

[Rob_2811]

"Kuo believes a new scissor switch keyboard will also be used in the MacBook Pro, but not until 2020."

So I will buy my next MBP in 2021, one year after the new keyboard has been battle tested.

Now I have to use my MBP from 2012 if I want a functional keyboard, since the one I bought in 2016 has been broken three times.

The bold bit is the problem.

They can take that long because you'll still buy it when they finally get around to releasing one that works. Sure you'll complain but hey they'll take your money anyway.

 

[applebro]

I'll actually upgrade my 2012 rMBP if they get rid of that ridiculous butterfly keyboard

 

[bluecoast]

I suspect that Ive blamed the material scientists & the keyboard team which is why they kept on iterating the design
until eventually, they concluded that the design couldn’t be made to work with the reliability that Apple needed, the number of returns, having to give extended warranties on laptops as soon as they were launched, plus the reputational damage all added up to a new laptop keyboard having to be designed.

 

[nouveau_redneck]

We still don’t know if the 2019’s are fixed but most reports on here are they don’t have issues. I read something that previous keyboard failures(2015 and previous) was 6% while the 2016 was 11.8% and 8.1% of the 2017 models. Time will tell it the 2019’s are back in that 5% range.

Do you recall where you saw that? Those numbers don't sound right. I can't imagine any of those models would be that high, even the failure prone 2016.

If the previous generation MBP's were anywhere near 6%, we would have had a mass of people complaining back then, as they are now. Even the 11.8% for the 2016 is just too high. Over 1 in 10, Apple would have halted production.

 

[fishmongerer]

The Mac is back baby, the Mac is back!

Don't hold your breath...
[doublepost=1562433656][/doublepost]

When would this be available? I need a macbook for school by the end of August

Apple NEVER comes out with computers in August. Look to late fall, after you bought one, then have to sell it to get the new one. Been like this for DECADES.

 

[Acidsplat]

The last straw for what? I read the WSJ story. It never said he was leaving Apple because of the Mac or any specific product decision. And it’s been over a week and nothing else has dropped to corroborate the WSJ reporting.

With respect to the Mac I’ve said it before and will say it again, one person alone wasn’t making product roadmap decisions for the Mac. Remember when the new Mac Pro was announced at WWDC, Phil Schiller used the phrase “can’t innovate any more my a—“. Schiller is not going to get up on stage and say that about a product designed at the whims of one person. Clearly the company as a whole thought they were thinking differently here, being innovative. Schiller was also on stage talking up the butterfly keyboard. Even if it was something Ive pushed for does Ive have the final say on what ships? Does John Gruber really think the company would ship a product they knew could be defective because Ive said so (meaning Ive was perfectly fine with shipping a defective keyboard)?

From everything I’ve read it seems there’s only one product that existed solely because Ive wanted it to and that’s the gold Apple Watch. Which, incidentally, was never shown off on stage at an Apple event.
[doublepost=1562415015][/doublepost]
You still haven’t provided examples of where Steve edited Jony.
[doublepost=1562415163][/doublepost]
When did Steve edit Jony? You have yet to provide a source for this claim.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...m-to-say-no-especially-when-it-hurts-to-do-it

Next time all you need is Google.
Ive says the Steve was hard on him and his ideas, and making him say no to ideas that he was passionate about. Ive says he still struggles with it to this day.