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I use CF and Cfast, SD does not belong on a professional product. All my devices have usb-c cables or have had their existing cable replaced with usb-c, and the butterfly keyboard has a lower error rate than the old keyboards when hammering in lines of code.

Yes, probably you do.....when it works. Maybe you are a lucky one without any issues, but I can see the others aren't that lucky.

I also do a lot of codes every day and cannot imagine the nightmare to type whole day on that hard touching and extremely noisy keyboard ( when it works ), so no thanks. Everyone has an opinion, but I haven't read that lot of complains from people here for the old one..actually i haven't read a single complain from Apple keyboards before 2016.
Don't get me wrong - I love my Mac Books Pro 2013 and 2017 Air and that's why I'll be the very happy to see the macs wonderful again...
 
If you could buy the same mac sans the touch bar for two or three hundred dollars less, which one would you choose?
Why do you think a touchbar-less 15” MBP would sell for $200-300 less? Pricing of the 2015 vs. 2016 imply more like a $100 difference. Of course, some don’t think it’s even worth $100, and a few would even pay extra not to have it!
 
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You keep coming back to 'everything can break' ... while seemingly ignoring the idea that there's a big difference between something that breaks say, 1% of the time and something that breaks maybe 5% of the time. That's a HUGE difference in reliability.
If you have the facts of % it cases for The keyboards please leave it here. The widespread issue with the keyboards I don’t think is as big as it seems on forums. What’s the total amount over years of the butterfly keyboard compared to other years?
 
If you have the facts of % it cases for The keyboards please leave it here. The widespread issue with the keyboards I don’t think is as big as it seems on forums. What’s the total amount over years of the butterfly keyboard compared to other years?

Here’s the thing. It doesn’t matter for those who’ve experienced issues. My keyboard broke in 5 months. I know multiple people who’ve had them break, some more than once. I NEVER had my past MacBooks have a single keyboard issue. I have NEVER spoken in person to anyone who had issues with the older keyboards. That’s all that matters to me. That’s all that matters to most people. Maybe it’s anecdotal, but that’s only because Apple won’t tell us the overall numbers.

I won’t be burned again, even if the numbers are not as high as they seem. You can’t use a butterfly keyboard, after you’ve had it break, without fearing more problems.
 
Why do you think a touchbar-less 15” MBP would sell for $200-300 less? Pricing of the 2015 vs. 2016 imply more like a $100 difference. Of course, some don’t think it’s even worth $100, and a few would even pay extra not to have it!
Was it? I remembered wrong, then. Also I live in Europe, maybe the price hike was higher here?

Nevertheless, as you say may people won’t pay another hundred for the touchbar, saving the money or investing the difference in, say, more ram.
 
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I would pay $150.00 more for a MacBook ??? with scissor keyboard, no TouchBar, thicker chassis so it can have M.2 nvme SSD Apple fast, two SODIMM slots, larger screwed in battery, and a lifeboat connector that powers up the T3 chip so data can be rescued with passcode. And Louis has to approve it.

Then I would add some bronze cladding because I'm Miesian.
 
Here’s the thing. It doesn’t matter for those who’ve experienced issues. My keyboard broke in 5 months. I know multiple people who’ve had them break, some more than once. I NEVER had my past MacBooks have a single keyboard issue. I have NEVER spoken in person to anyone who had issues with the older keyboards. That’s all that matters to me. That’s all that matters to most people. Maybe it’s anecdotal, but that’s only because Apple won’t tell us the overall numbers.

I won’t be burned again, even if the numbers are not as high as they seem. You can’t use a butterfly keyboard, after you’ve had it break, without fearing more problems.
Okay? I’ve had my 2016 replaced and eventually got a 2019. Why can’t you use them after you’ve had it break? Don’t be scared to use something because it broke and it was covered under warranty. I like the 2019 keyboard it feels different than the 2016/2017 keyboard.
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I would pay $150.00 more for a MacBook ??? with scissor keyboard, no TouchBar, thicker chassis so it can have M.2 nvme SSD Apple fast, two SODIMM slots, larger screwed in battery, and a lifeboat connector that powers up the T3 chip so data can be rescued with passcode. And Louis has to approve it.

Then I would add some bronze cladding because I'm Miesian.
This is Apple you’re talking about... hey we all can have dreams
 
If you have the facts of % it cases for The keyboards please leave it here. The widespread issue with the keyboards I don’t think is as big as it seems on forums. What’s the total amount over years of the butterfly keyboard compared to other years?
My brothers 2016 MBP broke the first day. His replacement broke within a week. His second replacement also broke within a week. Now he uses a Surface laptop.

I also have multiple people in my friend sphere who have abandoned their 2016-2017 Mac laptops.

I’m not saying that pre 2016 laptops didn’t have problems, but I’ve never met anyone pre 2016 where a breadcrumb turned their Mac unusable.
 
Yes, probably you do.....when it works. Maybe you are a lucky one without any issues, but I can see the others aren't that lucky.

I also do a lot of codes every day and cannot imagine the nightmare to type whole day on that hard touching and extremely noisy keyboard ( when it works ), so no thanks. Everyone has an opinion, but I haven't read that lot of complains from people here for the old one..actually i haven't read a single complain from Apple keyboards before 2016.
Don't get me wrong - I love my Mac Books Pro 2013 and 2017 Air and that's why I'll be the very happy to see the macs wonderful again...

They keyboard produces a lot less noise and requires less force in the 2018 than the 2013 and prior(right down to the Ti Powerbook which had an awful keyboard compared to what we have now). I have yet to encounter a single issue with this keyboard and would remind you that the numbers of these machines out there with happy customers far out shines the few that have experienced issues or just plainly don't like it for whatever individual personal reason or due to reading forums like this and therefor having the expectation of issues occurring.
 
Jony Ive’s arrogance and obsession with thinness has cost Apple a ton of money and reputation. I’m glad he is leaving the company later this year, primarily because his editor and curator is no longer there.

What a naive assessment. Adorable.
 
They keyboard produces a lot less noise and requires less force in the 2018 than the 2013 and prior(right down to the Ti Powerbook which had an awful keyboard compared to what we have now). I have yet to encounter a single issue with this keyboard and would remind you that the numbers of these machines out there with happy customers far out shines the few that have experienced issues or just plainly don't like it for whatever individual personal reason or due to reading forums like this and therefor having the expectation of issues occurring.

"They keyboard produces a lot less noise " - that is not true. The butterfly keyboard is a defensively nosier than 2013 keyboard, but we can argue till tomorrow. About the happy users - see the sales and tech sites which says where Apply have been with the laptops before and now...
Anyway - i hope Apply will get rid of the butterfly keyboard
 
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I'm ok with butterfly keys people who don't probably eat over their keyboards or have them exposed to large amounts of dust... Don't do it.

Actually I've been using Apple laptops outdoors (in a balcony mostly) since 2010. A 2010 model is still fine. A 2014 model is still fine. A 2018 model, the A and N keys are already broken.

Are you saying I shouldn't use the laptop outdoors? Why the hell is it portable then? Should I build a clean room inside my home to use my laptop there? Go to it through an air lock?

The butterfly keyboard is ****. Stop defending it.
 
just dosnt happen over night. The new "Scissor" design effort always existed.
a fitting prequel to essentially firing the head of design Mr. magic Jonathan Ive.

more goodness to follow? As Apple scrapes dead layers of managment into "LoveFrom Inc"
 
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Thankfully on my 2016 I havent experienced any issues with the keyboard. At work we had 2 out of the 40 that we bought that year have keyboard problems.
 
I feel sorry for those who jumped on the MBP '16 with all USB-C ports feeling they are future proof.
Well, they keyboards are not as future proof as you thought they might be!

I liked the USB-C ports - FOR MY USE CASE there was no need for dongles bad I could make do with new cables. I was actually happy with the ports.

I was even happy with the keyboard on my 2016. The two issues that made me sell mine were persistently unreliable nature of that new keyboard and the overall speed on the 13” 2016 that wasn’t feeling too much of an upgrade to justify the cost I paid for the computer. It felt more like I paid for the trimmed chassis. Hence sold.

Now rocking an MBA 2017 that I picked second hand for $550.
 
I don’t know how stupid it could go on with all the things that gradually screwed up by Tim Cook that seems incapable of understanding what’s best for the customer from price tag to the superiority of a product. The board of directors should be looking for a new boss at  as fast as it can.
 
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Actually I've been using Apple laptops outdoors (in a balcony mostly) since 2010. A 2010 model is still fine. A 2014 model is still fine. A 2018 model, the A and N keys are already broken.

Are you saying I shouldn't use the laptop outdoors? Why the hell is it portable then? Should I build a clean room inside my home to use my laptop there? Go to it through an air lock?

The butterfly keyboard is ****. Stop defending it.
Most people don’t have keyboard problems. Apple’s sold 25+ million, how many of those have problems?

It’s interesting (to me anyway) that some users report multiple occurrences, while others have had no problems whatsoever. That leads me to think it’s a defective part/process issue or a user issue (or both).
 
Ohhh new keyboard mechanism. Can't wait to dump a $3000 machine that runs just fine so I can get my hands on a $3000 keyboard!
 
How do you know Steve said no to him? Do you have examples you can share? And real stories, not just when you think he would have said no (because you would have said no).

When Apple first launched the MBA their marketing tag line was “Thinnovation”. The obsession with thin didn’t start under Ive. And people are making assumptions he was the one in the company obsessed with it. For all we know it was also a push from marketing. Once a design is boiled down to just a piece of multitouch glass what selling features are there besides cramming an incredible amount of power into an extremely thin and light design? When the 1 port Macbook came out some Windows OEMs were trolling Apple on social media claiming their Windows devices were even thinner and lighter. Yet Windows OEMs don’t get knocked for being obsessed with thinness.

Going back to Steve, there were plenty of things on his watch that people complained about - like the mouse that shipped with the iMac, the plastic cube that cracked, the iPod nano that easily scratched, the buttonless shuffle, the fat nano, the iPhone 4 reception issue which created the ‘you’re holding it wrong’ meme which still exists to this day. The original Air didn’t get great reviews. The ooh and aah’s were all centered around the look of the device and how thin and light it was. But it wasn’t until the 2010 Airs that the product really became a great device. People need to stop romanticizing the Jobs era.
Don't need to take things so serious. Steve made mistakes, but nowhere near the disaster that has been the butterfly keyboard.

You'll notice that the mistakes you point out were rectified quickly, meanwhile we're still shipping butterfly keyboards that were known to have design flaws since 2016. Meanwhile, I'm posting from a 2019 MacBook Pro hoping that I don't run into the same issues with it because I needed a portable 8-core machine with macOS.

You must forget the times Steve had to take leave of absences for medical treatment where he wasn't around all the time and things slipped through the cracks.
 
I don’t know how stupid it could go on with all the things that gradually screwed up by Tim Cook that seems incapable of understanding what’s best for the customer from price tag to the superiority of a product. The board of directors should be looking for a new boss at  as fast as it can.

I don’t think someone who wrote the first sentence above should be calling people stupid.
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If this really is in part a result of Ive's departure, then I am optimistic.
It’s not. If it really is shipping next year it will have been something that engineering and procurement has been working on for at least a year and a half already.
 
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This news makes my current decision even harder!!

Debating between an Ipad Pro 11 + Macbook Pro/Air combo or a stand alone Ipad Pro 12.9 - however, I will immediately purchase the new air on release if it has a new keyboard or the pro.. so it'll make the 12.9 a little redundant I think, just wondering if I can get by with the 11 until then!!

ARGH!!
 
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