Kuo: Apple Watch Series 4 Pre-Orders Above Expectations, iPhone XS Seeing Lackluster Demand

[DavidMalcolm]

I'm honestly not sure who the iPhone XS is for. I mean, I love my iPhone SE and I'd probably pay around the same price as an iPhone XR for the internals of the XS in a small size. But I'm not going to pay extra in order to get what ... a slightly smaller bezel, a camera that has optical zoom, and a brighter screen? I already have to turn my screen brightness down most of the time. I don't care about 3D touch, what else is there? Like is the screen nicer than the XR? Sure. But the XR is probably already going to have a gorgeous screen and I don't need to have my phone be sharper than 300 ppi! I'd gladly get the iPhone XS but I'm not going to pay more for it than for the XR. I mean, obviously people are buying these stupidly large and expensive iPhones. I'm just glad that Apple didn't decide to do something stupid like put an A11 in the XR or something.

 

[robbyx]

You're confused and being sloppy. I wasn't wondering why you brought up the fact that you're a share holder and that because of that you want apple to do well. I'm wondering why you think your earnings on Apple are relevant? The only reason to bring that up is to stroke your ego. And the bolded statement proves that mentality. You're trying to raise your opinion above that of others because of these irrelevant personal facts (if we take you at your word, of course) and clearly you're all primed up to throw out ridicules, like the bolded statement (well question that's not actually a question), when anyone tells you that your personal finances mean jack diddly to this discussion.

You're reading way more into something than I intended. It was an off the cuff remark. In hindsight, sure, it was unnecessary.

OK, you got me.... In all seriousness, you went on a straight diatribe. I mean, really, people that might complain that they have no good smallish iPhone option have never coded anything in their life. I live in the bay area. Myself and these guys I work with do this coding thing. You know what one of the most popular phones among them are? The SE or even the 5S. It really seems to go one way or the other, SE/5S or the X. Its either latest and greatest or its got to be the phone that fits them.

I was referring to people on these forums complaining about the lack of a smaller phone and suggesting that their personal opinions somehow equal fact. I bet the majority of people on here can't code. I also bet the majority of them have never developed and marketed a product. Yet they think they know better than a trillion dollar company that got there by producing the most successful consumer electronics product in history.

Yep. Appeal to authority.

Do you think that makes you sound smart or something? How old are you? Seriously. It's hilarious that you dismiss Apple like they're a bunch of idiots and their success is somehow an accident. They couldn't possibly know what consumers want and I'm just a dutiful sheep, right?

Wrong. They know exactly what consumers want because that's their job. Their business depends on it. It has nothing to do with authority. There's no authority here. There's nothing illogical about my deferring to Apple's reasoning on whether or not to produce a small flagship model phone. It's completely illogical, not to mention egotistical, to believe that you know better than the company that produces the product. My reasoning is sound. Yours is not.

Straw man. The point is not a smaller flagship, its a smaller but up-to-date option. Dumb it down some, fine, an XR-mini as it might be called. Its smaller, that means you can fit all the same bells and whistles, we get it. But smaller doesn't have to equal old either.

Not a straw man at all. When the SE launched, it offered most of what the 6S offered in a smaller package. When the 7 launched, it wasn't woefully behind. It launched pretty much right in between those two devices. In those 12-18 months, Apple obviously didn't sell enough or they would have updated it. If it had been popular, they would have incorporated the smaller size into the iPhone lineup. But it didn't. You're the one making the straw man arguments by bringing up a "smaller but up-to-date option." They had that for a while, something you conveniently ignore, and it didn't sell well enough to continue development. What makes you think that things are different today?

And what do you have? As of yet, the only argument you have the finger you're pointing to Cupertino.

Yes, because unlike you or I, they built the most popular consumer electronics product in history. They sells tens of millions of phones every quarter. What's absurd is that you think you know better than them.

And its a 2.5 year old phone that was using half year old tech (generally, the 6s, but in some spots actually less than that) and old styling all with an awkward release date. It was a self-fullfilling prophecy. The only people that currently have that phone are people that are either very budget conscious or prioritize size above all else. Never was it given a chance to thrive as an option for people that weight size in combination with the host of other factors.

Straw man. At one point it was a brand new phone with current generation tech and it still didn't sell well.

 

[PickUrPoison]

A lot of things must be taken into consideration when deciding when something is good value, and display quality is definitely one of them. Display quality has one of the most noticeable impacts on user experience, as anything you see when using the device is only as crisp or good as the display permits.

No argument there. But just because, out of dozens of features, the ppi is the same as the iPhone 8 and not the iPhone 8 Plus, doesn’t mean that Apple should charge $50 less than the iPhone 8.

The $749 XR doesn’t have 401ppi, dual cameras or 3D Touch like the 8 Plus, but then again it’s not priced at $799 either. But compared to the $699 iPhone 8, it has a larger display, TrueDepth/FaceID and the bump from 2GB to 3GB of RAM. So it’s priced higher than the 8.

To me, the value proposition holds over well from the 8/8 Plus lineup. And if 128GB is your sweet spot, $799 is a nice price point.

 

[smulji]

You're the oblivious one if you think comments on Reddit reflect the wishes of Joe Average consumer. Everywhere you look? On geeky tech forums? Who cares what those people think?! People on tech forums probably account for fewer than 5% of Apple's total customer base. Their opinions are meaningless.

I've never met anyone who bought, much less wanted, an SE. I'm the tech-savy friend in my peer group, so I help everyone with their upgrades and such. No one has bought an SE. No one has wanted an SE. Everyone has wanted a BIGGER screen. There's my "evidence". It's just as valid as yours, which is to say meaningless as well.

Get over yourself. Apple would make a smaller phone if they thought it would sell. You're not smarter than Apple. You don't know something everyone else is missing because a few geeks on Reddit and MacRumors say they want small phones.

I agree. Even from my own observations, more and more people want and are choosing bigger screens.

 

[newyorksole]

I have my X mounted on my car dash in landscape for gps. If the phone gets locked for whatever reason, unlocking becomes impossible while driving. Irritating.

Easy fixes:

1) Have a 4/6 digit passcode you can quickly type in.

2) Turn off auto-lock.

Problem solved.

 

[KPOM]

The XS is in kind of a weird spot. XR and XS Max are going to be the go-to iPhones.

Too bad they aren’t all releasing at the same time.

You’re right—Xr is s great price and value. I can’t wait to see the pre-orders. Or will hear what they say on the earnings call.
[doublepost=1537150608][/doublepost]
I bought the Max because I wanted the biggest phone possible. If the choice was Xs or Xr I would buy a red R without hesitation

I’m guessing Apple expects the Xr to be the most popular version. I say this as a X owner who bought the Xs.

 

[tentales]

No iPhone 11. Next September Apple moves to:
September 2019 iPhone 5.8"
September 2019 iPhone 6.1"
September 2019 iPhone 6.5"

This will line up with iPad, iMac, MBA, MB, MBP, MP.
[doublepost=1537153445][/doublepost]

IMO, yes. One is being led off the end of a pier by a flute player. The other seeks status, and self worth through material means.

Good one, although I've come across plenty of combos of status+wealth seekers being led over a cliff. Consumerism is the conditioner for society to impart status and faux-happiness. In the end Aldous Huxley's prophecies will be proven right. Too many have their heads in the sand, or in their AR/VR headsets, to realize that.

but we're really getting OT now.. so I'll end here.

 

[B4U]

I have an X and did not see the point in going to XS. I had a 6 Plus, 6S Plus, and 7 Plus and though the X was a size downgrade and the new Max represents approximately the same physical size as my previous Plus phones, I am actually happy with the smaller size. Even though I am on a Next every year upgrade and could get one I don’t intend to. A Series 4 made more sense for me. Ideally I think the XR represents an optimal screen size, but I wouldn’t opt to downgrade from an X to an XR.
[doublepost=1537119620][/doublepost]
Is that was the XR is essentially.

How is the XR a replacement for the SE?
The size is completely different animal while costing twice as much!

 

[Tech198]

people want the MAX..

 

[pratikindia]

XS Max will do well in China. But high end phone are being sold less day by day. XR is a good phone, but with a low res display and bad price. 800p on a 6.1" screen? You can't even watch fullHD in it's full glory. Nonetheless, it will sell.

 

[smulji]

"iPhones are expensive" is not a justification for the price of the starting iPhone Xr being $100 higher than the price of the starting iPhone 6 in 2014. So far you have yet to defend your point that the Xr is being sold at an "excellent price".

The iPhone Xr is $100 too expensive. Here's why.

Pricing the Xr at $749 to start pushes it into the premium space, as Apple themselves established with the iPhone 6 Plus in 2014. Here the display, lack of 3D Touch, and lack of dual cameras simply doesn't live up to the expectations set by the premium price tag. These are expectations set by both Apple and other manufacturers.

• For just $50 more LAST YEAR, you could get an iPhone that had a 401 PPI LCD display, dual-cameras, 3D Touch, as well as an aspect ratio better optimized for widescreen video.
• For the same $749 price in 2015, you could get an iPhone that had a 401 PPI LCD display, 3D Touch, as well as an aspect ratio better optimized for widescreen video.
  • In other words, the iPhone Xr is missing two impactful features found on a three-year-old iPhone 6s Plus. Not a tempting upgrade for me as a current 6s Plus owner.
• Plenty of Android smartphones at lower price points have OLED screens with a PPI higher than last year's 8 Plus, as well as dual-cameras. 3D Touch is no longer a factor that sets iPhone Xr apart from the competition, so despite the better design and software, it starts to fall short in a comparison for someone who isn't committed to iOS.
  • Yes, I know we can get into an entire conversation about the benefits of iOS vs Android, this is mainly focusing on the hardware.

Apple will sell plenty, but they shouldn't.

Inevitably someone will argue that Apple should have the right to price their products any way they want. While this is true, it doesn't change the fact that the iPhone Xr is more expensive than last year's iPhone 8, and potental buyers should do enough research to know exactly what they are getting for their money.

Here are some plausible reasons Apple assumes they can get away with pricing it at $749, and customers will still buy it:

• It looks like an iPhone X / Xs and has a lower price tag. That's it, just the look.
• It has just enough of the iPhone X feature set to make it seem high-tech (primarily Face ID), and potential buyers will often ignore the shortcomings of the device due to a lack of research or understanding.
  • To make matters worse, the marketing phrase "Liquid Retina" is intended to mislead less-knowledgable potential buyers into thinking this is some kind of brand new display tech, when it really isn't.
• Potential buyers have three choices to stay in the iOS ecosystem: The Xs, a prohibitively expensive smartphone which they may not be able to justify or afford; the Xr; or an older generation with an older design (aside from the discontinued X).
  • It remains to be seen how many of these customers will opt for an 8 / 8 Plus / X, or older generation instead.
• Brand recognition.

"Apple will sell plenty, but they shouldn't."

That's for the market to decide. And between now and Fall 2019, it will decide.

 

[danskin]

XS Max will do well in China. But high end phone are being sold less day by day. XR is a good phone, but with a low res display and bad price. 800p on a 6.1" screen? You can't even watch fullHD in it's full glory. Nonetheless, it will sell.

I am currently on a 7. I was excited about the XR until I learnt about its physical dimension and weight.......

 

[GoodWheaties]

Don’t assume fans would like an all-screen SE-sized device. Many people that like a 3.5 or 4.0 inch screen don’t really want a 5+” screen. It’s not usable with one hand since their thumb can’t stretch across that diagonal.

There’s no evidence that small phones would be a huge success. Not in the Apple world, and certainly not in the dozens/hundreds of manufacturers in the Android world.

Apple can’t make a business out of a product that few buy—unless it’s very high priced. Would you pay $1,149 for that SE-sized all screen phone?

I think plenty of people would like a 5” all screen phone. It makes more sense than having 3 screen sizes within 0.7”. But the biggest problem I see is that unless the notch gets smaller, there simply isn’t enough room on each side to put it in a smaller display.

 

[Tech198]

How is the XR a replacement for the SE?
The size is completely different animal while costing twice as much!

I always like GSM Arena : https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?&idPhone1=7969&idPhone2=9320

When no other site compares phones... they do..

The XR is a whole new 'kettle-of-fish.' That's why its more.

 

[4jasontv]

You, and a handful of others, can repeat this all day long, but that doesn't make it true. There's no evidence that consumers want a smaller phone. None. Zip. Zero. If that were true, other brands would be making tiny flagship phones, but they're not.

The egos some people have thinking they know better than Apple just because they want it... How narcissistic. Ugh.

The XS is only slightly larger than then SE, as I noted in another post. No one is going to ditch the iPhone over 1/2".

Ehem....There is evidence. Right here. Us saying we want it is evidence... but since you don't care about that...

There is no evidence that people don't want it either.

The SE was larger than many of us wanted. Again, that doesn't matter because the reason we don't have one of these devices is because Apple and these other companies can't make the phone. They can't do it and that's why the don't sell it. It has very little to do with demand and more to do with the fact that it's easier to make a large device than it is to make a small one.

 

[smulji]

I don't think that's true. The iPad will never be a good development machine. You need a real keyboard to develop. I think it's much more likely that we'll see an iOS laptop with keyboard and trackpad support that looks a lot like MacOS. I think MacOS's days are numbered, but I don't think that's true for MacOS's UI. There will be desktop and portable iOS machines that look like today's MacOS. That's what Marzipan is all about.
[doublepost=1537152011][/doublepost]

Ha. It's not about wearing blinders. Like I said, the SD card is a philosophical choice. You either get that or you don't. You clearly don't. I'm not lecturing you. I'm pointing out the obvious. Apple would never put something like an SD card slot in an iPhone. The fact that you even bring up the idea just tells me how little you understand the company and its design and user-experience philosophy. I don't care where you've worked or what languages you program in. You don't get Apple if you think you'd ever stick an SD card slot in an iPhone.

Marzipan is about letting iOS apps run on the Mac. I wouldn't read anything more into that.

 

[redheeler]

No argument there. But just because, out of dozens of features, the ppi is the same as the iPhone 8 and not the iPhone 8 Plus, doesn’t mean that Apple should charge $50 less than the iPhone 8.

The $749 XR doesn’t have 401ppi, dual cameras or 3D Touch like the 8 Plus, but then again it’s not priced at $799 either. But compared to the $699 iPhone 8, it has a larger display, TrueDepth/FaceID and the bump from 2GB to 3GB of RAM. So it’s priced higher than the 8.

To me, the value proposition holds over well from the 8/8 Plus lineup. And if 128GB is your sweet spot, $799 is a nice price point.

If Apple really wants to position the Xr as the entry-level 2018 iPhone and an upgrade from last year's 8, it should be priced comparably and at the price point where it would offer the best value. Similarly, last year's iPhone 8 should have been priced comparably to the iPhone 7. But instead, the two price increases combine to $100, or the price of the starting Plus model in 2015 now attached to the entry-level / non-Plus iPhone, the Xr.

To make matters worse, Apple positioned the Xr as a replacement for last year's non-Plus and Plus models both. There is no 2018 Plus model at a comparable price to last year's Plus model, or even $50 higher. Hence the price for Plus owners simply wanting comparable hardware jumps all the way from $799 to the $1,099 Xs Max.

iPhone 6s Plus owners who purchased at full price in 2015 are going to be paying no less in 2018 for lower PPI / no 3D Touch, or $350 more for the Xs Max. This isn't an insignificant sum and has definitely caused me to reconsider upgrading my 6s Plus at all this year.

 

[Aftermath747]

Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who has an X (of about 20 people) that is upgrading.

Anyone on here with an X upgrading? To the Xs or to the Xs Max?

Going from the X to the XS Max because I’m on an annual upgrade plan.

 

[jeremiah256]

Well as so often, criticize Apple for anything and the zealots come out in force.

Yes, they do. But you seem to have a "you're either with me or against me/it's either black or white" attitude so I'm not sure you'd be able to differentiate between honest disagreement or when someone is being a zealous fanboy.

It's an economic choice masquerading as a philosophical one.

In real life, there is often overlap.

 

[charlituna]

preorders and demand are not really the same thing. folks might be waiting to buy in store so they can see the colors or some other weird reason.
[doublepost=1537156405][/doublepost]

Slightly off topic, but many people suspect that as soon as Apple can get XCode to adequately run on an iPad, they will start phasing out the MacBook form factor of computers.

many people seem to be assuming that Apple is even trying to get X Code to run on an iPad. they might be shocked when it turns out that Apple isn't and isn't planning to

 

[JimmyHook]

Funny, with all the drivel I’m reading I’m reminded of articles last year. After the X (that’s Ten for anyone who can’t read) went on sale, all we heard for months was that sales were far below expectations. WRONG!!! It wasn’t only the best selling iPhone ever, it was the best selling smartphone ever. It’s hilarious to read the same garbage every year and every year anti-Apple people repeat it hoping it’ll be true this time. Guess what. It won’t. It’ll be the best selling smartphone again.

 

[applebro]

Went from 7+ to the X. I think 5.8” is the perfect size that balances single hand usability and screen real estate. Held a 7+ the other day and it felt like an iPad mini lol. I think Apple knocked it out of the park with the X. I feel like I have a phone that doesn’t need to be upgraded after a year for once. I probably won’t buy another phone until they get rid of the notch

 

[wdwpsu]

I'm honestly not sure who the iPhone XS is for. I mean, I love my iPhone SE and I'd probably pay around the same price as an iPhone XR for the internals of the XS in a small size. But I'm not going to pay extra in order to get what ... a slightly smaller bezel, a camera that has optical zoom, and a brighter screen? I already have to turn my screen brightness down most of the time. I don't care about 3D touch, what else is there? Like is the screen nicer than the XR? Sure. But the XR is probably already going to have a gorgeous screen and I don't need to have my phone be sharper than 300 ppi! I'd gladly get the iPhone XS but I'm not going to pay more for it than for the XR. I mean, obviously people are buying these stupidly large and expensive iPhones. I'm just glad that Apple didn't decide to do something stupid like put an A11 in the XR or something.

People like me. I don't want to carry something as bulky as the Xr or Xs Max. But, I want a phone with the best camera (optical zoom is important to me). And the contrast of an OLED (1,000,000:1) compared to LCD (1400:1) is as important, if not more important than pixel density (Contrast isn't about brightness, it's about the gap between whites and blacks).
I didn't buy an iPhone X as I wanted to bleed one more year out of my trusty iPhone 6. But, now that it's time, I want a phone that I can rely on for the next 4 years that still fits in my pocket and I can use without getting finger extensions.

I get it that I'm in the minority here. I do think if you have an X and want to upgrade the Xs Max is an awesome alternative. If you have consistently been a Plus user, the Xr is a worthy upgrade. If you have bought your phones based on value, the Xr is also the best upgrade. But, if performance in a small case is what you want, the Xs is the best option.

 

[vipergts2207]

XS Max will do well in China. But high end phone are being sold less day by day. XR is a good phone, but with a low res display and bad price. 800p on a 6.1" screen? You can't even watch fullHD in it's full glory. Nonetheless, it will sell.

High resolution on a phone for video is basically the least worthy use case to make use of all those pixels. The point of the high resolution is mainly to make text look smooth as butter and fine details in still pictures stand out. The resolution on a screen that small is way overkill for video.

 

[cmaier]

Oh c'mon, marketing by its very definition today is BS. Just look at the car industry.
Apple is particularly good at it these days.

Sure. Nothing means anything. Facts don’t exist. Your personal truth is all that matters.

Or the facts show that Apple consistently releases products that detract from sales of its other products. The XR will detract from the XS. The new iPad detracts from the iPad Pro sales. The iPhone cannibalizes the iPod, their cash cow at the time.

And maybe logic dictates that in an industry with numerous competitors, you should make new products that customers want even if that means you will sell fewer of your existing products, because otherwise your competitors will.

But yeah, maybe everything is bs and facts aren’t facts and chickens are dogs and unicorns are conspiring to steal your cheese.