Kuo: Apple Watch Series 4 Pre-Orders Above Expectations, iPhone XS Seeing Lackluster Demand

[robbyx]

Of course Apple will claim that... And depending on which numbers you look at, that will actually be true. However, as long as they don't include relevant information such as "sold to end-users", overall sales or if we are just looking at the US market and so on, that's on Apple marketing BS of how amazing they are.

Regardless of your ignorant statement that Apple knows best and we straight forward ignore the fact of how many people are asking for an SE2, the SE has actually proven exactly the opposite of what you're saying.
Also, there's no evidence that consumers wanted the 3,5mm jack removed, an USB-C only "Pro" laptop, a non-upgrade Trashcan Mac "Pro" [and so on...].

Manufacturers generally believe bigger = better. Apple now follows the same retarded logic that car manufacturers did long enough. Want the good interior? Buy our huge sedan that will cost a fortune in insurance! Luckily, that's changing slowly in that industry.

All people asking for is full-screen SE... https://i.imgur.com/Mkj3M26.jpg

Hilarious. I’m ignorant for believing that the trillion dollar company that invented the most popular consumer electronics product in history has no clue what consumers want. Why? Because a handful of people on forums say they want a smaller phone! Utterly hilarious!

The only people making ignorant statements are the few random forum loudmouths who insist they know better than Apple. Get back to me when you’ve built a successful consumer electronics brand that rakes in billions of dollars every quarter. I’ll believe you’re no longer conflating your personal desires with what market research when that happens. Until then, you’re just blowing smoke.

 

[MacBH928]

who remembers when Apple used to mock the bigger screen Samsung Phablets saying your thumb couldn't cover the whole screen...back when iphones were 4 inch (the large size)

 

[Lloydbm41]

But it does have a new camera and sensor.

Not what I said.

Typically, in S releases we see something new added to the phone from the previous year. An example of this would be Siri, 3D Touch, new camera, etc. We see none of that with the XS.

That is what I was saying.
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still no included fast charger or dongle, plus that price tag... or a cable to connect it to your current apple laptop. it's getting embarrassing.

wouldn't complain if this was a 150 bucks generic Android device i must say.

I agree. If I'm spending $1000+ I would expect a quick charging brick be included.

 

[robbyx]

I have no idea how many people want smaller phones, but it's absolutely true that you have a very hard time finding a decent Android 4" phone. So it seems that nobody wants to build and sell small phones.

Some people definitely want smaller phones as evidenced by the three or four folks in this thread screaming that they know better than every phone manufacturer on the planet.

If any manufacturer felt that enough people wanted smaller phones, they’d make them. Apple held out for a long time, insisting that people did not want a larger device. And Galaxy sales took off. When Apple finally caved and released the 6, it sold like crazy. The SE was their small phone test. The folks screaming for a smaller phone with up to date components conveniently forget that Apple tried this once. The SE. It was up to date when it was released and yet it didn’t sell well. The market has spoken. There aren’t enough people who want a smaller phone for any manufacturer to make one.
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That’s more than 10 years in the future.

Maybe so. Hard to say. Whether it’s 5, 10 or more years, the point remains. Marzipan is the first step towards a unified OS. That doesn’t mean it will look like iOS on the desktop, but under the hood it will be.

 

[manu chao]

Source?

How many people do you know that upgrade yearly and how many do you know that upgrade on a longer cycle?

There is also this overview that estimates the average lifespan of all Apple devices (incl. Macs) to be almost four years. The average lifespan of Macs will naturally be longer than that of iOS devices but since iOS devices sell in the order of ten times more than Macs, the average lifespan of iOS devices will be relatively close to to that number. Of course, this includes devices resold or gifted on the used market and thus doesn't prove anything but I think it is an indicator that the vast majority doesn't upgrade yearly.

 

[naturalstar]

By the time there is a "deal", you'll be looking at the calendar and thinking, "But a new phone is about to be announced"

That’s fine for him. He’s not in a rush for the latest and greatest immediately upon release every year. There are people like that who exist, shockingly, I know.

 

[I7guy]

How can you refer to 2007-8 iPhone and say it's the same kind of Apple? Apple of 2018 is all about catch up. They've been been two steps behind the competition for multiple years already, forget about ground breaking innovations like the iPhone. Nowadays software, not hardware is the only thing keeping many people in the Apple ecosystem, and I must say their software quality has been lacking lately, especially on the macOS side.

Apple is playing catch up as in better software and hardware than the competition? They basically been a step in front of the competition since 2013. I guess it’s the way it’s viewed but I’m staying because of the software and hardware.

 

[robbyx]

I am afraid your perspective on the world has ended far before the Indian border
(which happens to be Apple’s last growth opportunity)

Do you have some evidence that Indians prefer smaller phones? I’m asking that seriously.

It’s amazing how often you say the same ignorant point over and over again in the same damn thread. Thank God for the ignore button. You are ridiculous.

So my saying the same thing is ridiculous, but you saying the same thing is not? Get over yourself. Unlike you, I have a point. You’re just prattling on about how you want something and you’re smarter than Apple and know better, blah, blah, blah. Talk about ridiculous. Is this the part where you promise to send childish private messages?

Perhaps you’d care to explain how you know what consumers want better than Apple does. I’d love to hear this. I’d love to understand how you and a few fellow reddit users know what consumers want better than the company that designs and manufacturers the products. Please explain WITHOUT resorting to personal opinions and preferences. When you can do that, I’ll take you seriously.

 

[Fortimir]

Ummmm...you may only be seeing what you want to see.
Oh, well. I doubt anyone can change your mind. Be Best.

LOL. Check out the launch thread for the XR. In the first ten pages, 90% of the posts are complaints.

 

[dannys1]

I think XR will outsell the XS/XS Max combined 2:1. And, the XS Max will outsell the XS. I mean if you’re already spending $1,000-1,350 why not spend the extra $100 for the bigger phone? 8 Plus outsold the 8.

Because the phone is too big and for once they've not borked the better sized one by only putting features on the massive one.

Also it didn't - it got closer, but the massive phone has never outsold the normal sized phone once.
https://9to5mac.com/2017/12/26/iphone-x-outperformed-by-8-and-8-plus/
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LOL. Check out the launch thread for the XR. In the first ten pages, 90% of the posts are complaints.

To be fair look at ANY post on this forum and 90% of the posts are complaints.

 

[Fortimir]

Sounds like you are caping for Apple on this too? How is the iPhone 7 Plus and 8 Plus camera better than the iPhone XR in 2018? XR is a downgrade plain and simple.

Obviously going from two cameras down to one is a downgrade. I'm just saying it's a justifiable one to cut costs because the second camera isn't even important to most users. If you're going to cut features to save money, cut the ones that will be least missed or that people can live without.

To be fair look at ANY post on this forum and 90% of the posts are complaints.

That was precisely my original sarcastic point.

 

[98winds]

From 4.7 to 5.8, 6.1 or 6.5... more than inch, nah.

For some of us, big doesn't attract, so, Apple, what about a new optimum smaller size for next march...

 

[Lloydbm41]

This report is designed to drive the stock price down. Apple is currently in their quite period and the tech sites know that there are no shortages of sell-side analysts eager to put their name on shoddy analysis designed to drive the stock down.

Also, Apple typically makes a statement about "best sales ever" every September, but always after the first weekend of actual availability. So we haven't even cleared that hurdle yet.

So watch the financial news over the next few days or so to see what kind of pile-on reporting comes out. Then around next Wednesday, I'd guess that a few major analysts will quote their supply chain contacts and declare huge sales to drive the stock back up.

Obviously, this will occur after the sell-siders tell their clients to buy at the low point.

All opinions expressed in this post are my own. You're responsible for your own decisions.

3rd quarter is typically the weakest quarter. Stocks may slide a bit and then come back up in Q4. I easily see a $300+ stock price by Jan

 

[KPandian1]

This actually happened to me on Friday at the Apple Store in Grand Central Station - I asked one of the associates when the iPhone Xs will be available to handle, he looked blank then baffled!

He thought I was asking about Tennis! Five days since the US Open ended.

More people have mentioned a similar terming of the Xs in some of the other threads here.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Because the phone is too big and for once they've not borked the better sized one by only putting features on the massive one.

Also it didn't - it got closer, but the massive phone has never outsold the normal sized phone once.
https://9to5mac.com/2017/12/26/iphone-x-outperformed-by-8-and-8-plus/
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To be fair look at ANY post on this forum and 90% of the posts are complaints.

The article you quote was early in the availability. In at least one of the financials conference calls, Cook mentioned that for the first time since the 6/6 Plus, that the Plus model outsold the smaller model for the quarter.

You can call it too big and massive but people want larger phones. I have no doubt the XR will far outsell the XS, but we’ll probably never know if the Max outsells the 5.8” XS unless Apple tells us.

The article you link uses CIRP’s data; if you trust them, here’s their Q3 data. They have the 8 Plus overwhelmingly outselling the 8 in FY3Q, 24% to 13%—almost 2:1 (US only). I think they were probably a lot closer, but who knows, it might be accurate; the Q2 ASP held up remarkably well compared to past years’ Q2—>Q3 erosion.

 

[robbyx]

Apple is playing catch up as in better software and hardware than the competition? They basically been a step in front of the competition since 2013. I guess it’s the way it’s viewed but I’m staying because of the software and hardware.

2013? They’ve been in front of the competition since 1976!

I stay with Apple because the overall user experience is still better than anything else. That said, I do think they’re slipping in certain areas. Their Mac hardware is stale and overpriced. They’re doing the bare minimum to keep the Mac going. I personally believe that this is because they’re working on replacing MacOS with iOS on the desktop, not merging iOS with MacOS as some have speculated. But anyway, back to hardware. While the Mac lineup is stale, they are doing very inspired work on their own A-series chips and devices. No catch-up there!

On the software side, I think they still have an edge and I much prefer Apple’s GUIs to other interfaces. Of course that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I’ve been using them for decades. That said, I feel like they are losing their edge as each new release seems to get buggier than the previous one. I also feel like there is an increasing lack of consistency in the user interfaces. In my opinion, the two weak links at Apple today are Eddie Cue and whoever is in charge of UI work. Services performance and a degenerating UI are my biggest complaints when it comes to the Apple experience.

What I don’t see from Apple these days, unfortunately, is much vision. It’s been quite some time since Apple blew me away like Google did earlier this year with Assisant making phone calls and scheduling appointments. Apple’s events, like the recent iPhone launch, have become groan-worthy endurance tests. There’s too much selling going on. Phil ooohing and aaaahing over bokeh seemed desperate.

 

[wallysb01]

This actually happened to me on Friday at the Apple Store in Grand Central Station - I asked one of the associates when the iPhone Xs will be available to handle, he looked blank then baffled!

He thought I was asking about Tennis! Five days since the US Open ended.

More people have mentioned a similar terming of the Xs in some of the other threads here.

I like to pronounce it the ex-es, which of course seems appropriate given it is a total excess.

 

[FFR]

Hilarious. I’m ignorant for believing that the trillion dollar company that invented the most popular consumer electronics product in history has no clue what consumers want. Why? Because a handful of people on forums say they want a smaller phone! Utterly hilarious!

The only people making ignorant statements are the few random forum loudmouths who insist they know better than Apple. Get back to me when you’ve built a successful consumer electronics brand that rakes in billions of dollars every quarter. I’ll believe you’re no longer conflating your personal desires with what market research when that happens. Until then, you’re just blowing smoke.

You should see what some said about the first iPhone, now that’s funny.

Good thing Apple never listened to anyone here.

 

[robbyx]

You should see what some said about the first iPhone, now that’s funny.

Good thing Apple never listened to anyone here.

Agreed! What’s really funny is that some people on this forum actually believe they represent the average Apple customer. News flash! If you’ve gone so far as to seek out a tech forum to argue with other tech lovers, you are NOT anyone’s average customer.

 

[wallysb01]

The article you quote was early in the availability. In at least one of the financials conference calls, Cook mentioned that for the first time since the 6/6 Plus, that the Plus model outsold the smaller model for the quarter.

You can call it too big and massive but people want larger phones. I have no doubt the XR will far outsell the XS, but we’ll probably never know if the Max outsells the 5.8” XS unless Apple tells us.

The article you link uses CIRP’s data; if you trust them, here’s their Q3 data. They have the 8 Plus overwhelmingly outselling the 8 in FY3Q, 24% to 13%—almost 2:1 (US only). I think they were probably a lot closer, but who knows, it might be accurate; the Q2 ASP held up remarkably well compared to past years’ Q2—>Q3 erosion.

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And are we so surprised by this? The iPhone 8 and X were dividing the smaller new phone market between them. That split vote makes it easier to get the iPhone 8+ above both of them. And the 7 was still outselling the 7+, so marginal sales favor the small end on that generation as well.

2013? They’ve been in front of the competition since 1976!

Man, you've got some serious amnesia that has blocked out the dark times in Apple.

I stay with Apple because the overall user experience is still better than anything else. That said, I do think they’re slipping in certain areas. Their Mac hardware is stale and overpriced. They’re doing the bare minimum to keep the Mac going. I personally believe that this is because they’re working on replacing MacOS with iOS on the desktop, not merging iOS with MacOS as some have speculated. But anyway, back to hardware. While the Mac lineup is stale, they are doing very inspired work on their own A-series chips and devices. No catch-up there!

On the software side, I think they still have an edge and I much prefer Apple’s GUIs to other interfaces. Of course that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I’ve been using them for decades. That said, I feel like they are losing their edge as each new release seems to get buggier than the previous one. I also feel like there is an increasing lack of consistency in the user interfaces. In my opinion, the two weak links at Apple today are Eddie Cue and whoever is in charge of UI work. Services performance and a degenerating UI are my biggest complaints when it comes to the Apple experience.

What I don’t see from Apple these days, unfortunately, is much vision. It’s been quite some time since Apple blew me away like Google did earlier this year with Assisant making phone calls and scheduling appointments. Apple’s events, like the recent iPhone launch, have become groan-worthy endurance tests. There’s too much selling going on. Phil ooohing and aaaahing over bokeh seemed desperate.

Right. Apple has changed. At worst, you might be able to describe much of their product line up as being guided by a combination complacency (the Macs in particular) and needless change for change sake. They are no longer true innovators. Like this EKG 'innovation' they touted, did they completely forget about a device that's been selling for years that uses Apple own platform: https://store.alivecor.com/products/kardiaband.

 

[Black Magic]

Agreed! What’s really funny is that some people on this forum actually believe they represent the average Apple customer. News flash! If you’ve gone so far as to seek out a tech forum to argue with other tech lovers, you are NOT anyone’s average customer.

True. The average consumer has no clue iOS 12 dropped today.

 

[PickUrPoison]

And are we so surprised by this? The iPhone 8 and X were dividing the smaller new phone market between them. That split vote makes it easier to get the iPhone 8+ above both of them. And the 7 was still outselling the 7+, so marginal sales favor the small end on that generation as well.

Nope, not surprising at all. It all makes sense.

I expect 7 to outsell 7 Plus this year just because it’s the least expensive, but of course some want the smallest phone they can get and buy it for that reason. But like the SE, a large percentage of sales are due to the price, and not necessarily a preference for a smaller device.

 

[robbyx]

True. The average consumer has no clue iOS 12 dropped today.

I’d go so far as to say that the average consumer doesn’t really understand what an operating system is to begin with.

 

[KPandian1]

I’d go so far as to say that the average consumer doesn’t really understand what an operating system is to begin with.

Snob-Nerd - a thing now!

(Though, it is true!)

 

[Lloydbm41]

2013? They’ve been in front of the competition since 1976!

You must not be old enough to remember the 80’s!