Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The SE line has never been about size. It has always been about production costs. They won’t do a Mini for that reason alone. Historically the smaller phones have been cheaper to produce, so it was just a coincidence that the SEs were smaller. But now the XR size is hitting that age where the components are getting much cheaper.
As Klasma said and provided evidence for, the original SE was at least partially about size. Obviously, Apple is straying from that though.

What do you mean smaller phones have been historically cheaper to produce? That doesn't make any sense. The only reason they might be cheaper to produce than larger phones is lower cost of raw materials, but that difference in cost is not really going to change over time. Unless the cost of raw materials have plummeted so much that the difference in raw materials cost is now negligible. But that hasn't happened. And in fact, smaller tech can be more costly to produce than bigger tech. Miniaturization can make things more difficult and therefore more expensive.

But much more relevant than the difference in raw material cost difference is the difference in production cost. The relevant principle here, which you actually alluded to, is that OLD phones get cheaper--no matter the size. When the production cycle matures, things get more efficient and therefore cheaper, which is why SEs use previous generation phones. So it was no coincidence the SE1 was small--it was simply because the previous generation iPhone was small.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mgarc1125
Well this sucks if true. I'm glad I grabbed an SE 3 last year, if that ends up being the last iphone with touch ID I'm gonna hang onto it for a looong time. I don't necessarily want a smaller phone, but I love touch ID. I tolerate face ID & gestures on my 14+ because the phone is fantastic otherwise, but face ID has always been really fiddly for me. It works most of the time, but fails often enough to be annoying and is noticeably slower than touch ID.

I really wish they'd revive the 8+ design for the next SE. Even better- get rid of the base model iphone 15s and offer a 15 pro/pro max, and an SE/SE+ with classic design. That'd be amazing 😍
 
We'll see. I know SE users that don't care for a bigger phone. I'm just sad to see Touch ID go and hope Apple hasn't given up on under the screen bio-metrics.
Glad I was able to get the current SE before all of the changes. I like the size with no Face ID. Home button I am good with as I am use to it since iPhone was born.

Love “new” tech and designs, but this current SE (for me) does all I need.

Hope to keep this one for some time. :)
 
Why? The mini failed. It’s funny how people here on MacRumors and other Internet places clamor over the iPhone mini and yet literally nobody bought them. Apple listened to the demands of this small percentage of users and brought out an undersized and still powerful phone and all everyone did was cry about it and find every reason to bash it and encourage prospective buyers to steer clear. They made two generations even though the numbers showed it was to Apple’s detriment.

The market has shown time and time again that most people want bigger phones.
If by “literally nobody bought them” you meant “millions bought them” you would be right. The problem is that at Apple’s scale, millions is not enough. According to reports, the recent iPhone 14 Plus only sold about as many units as the iPhone minis did in a year. I guess that makes bigger phones failures, too? Or perhaps there are subtleties that are not contained in that narrative related to competition from other phones in the lineup, pricing, overall market situations. it seems that Apple is experimenting with secondary models in the lineup and has not, yet, found one that it wants to stick with.
 
Well this sucks if true. I'm glad I grabbed an SE 3 last year, if that ends up being the last iphone with touch ID I'm gonna hang onto it for a looong time. I don't necessarily want a smaller phone, but I love touch ID. I tolerate face ID & gestures on my 14+ because the phone is fantastic otherwise, but face ID has always been really fiddly for me. It works most of the time, but fails often enough to be annoying and is noticeably slower than touch ID.

I really wish they'd revive the 8+ design for the next SE. Even better- get rid of the base model iphone 15s and offer a 15 pro/pro max, and an SE/SE+ with classic design. That'd be amazing 😍
I completely agree. I've disliked Face ID since its inception. I've tried following guides to improve the accuracy of Face ID (such as registering my face several times with and without glasses) but I would estimate my phone unlocks only about 70% of the time for me on my 12 pro max. I frequently go back to my SE as I get so fed up having to enter my passcode all day long but, after a few days, the small screen and dated design then prompt me to return to my 12 pro max again!

I really can't bring myself to buy a newer iPhone as, despite all the upgrades, I'll still be using Face ID at the end of the day and that just doesn't feel like a worthwhile purchase. Yet, I'm so firmly in the Apple camp and own so many computers, iPads, watches, Apple TVs, HomePods, etc that I really can't leave either. I was holding out hope for a more modern SE with Touch ID (perhaps a top or side button similar to the iPad) but that is looking unlikely at this point.

I think, reluctantly, I will venture into the Android territories for the next year or so. I actually did this once before back when Apple was so slow to release an iPhone with a larger screen. After my 4S, I got a Nexus 5 and did enjoy it until - finally - the 6 Plus came out and I was back on the first day of its release. So I'm guessing I will be begging Apple to once again take my money if they ever bring back Touch ID, improve Face ID, or come up with another creative solution!
 
I completely agree. I've disliked Face ID since its inception. I've tried following guides to improve the accuracy of Face ID (such as registering my face several times with and without glasses) but I would estimate my phone unlocks only about 70% of the time for me on my 12 pro max. I frequently go back to my SE as I get so fed up having to enter my passcode all day long but, after a few days, the small screen and dated design then prompt me to return to my 12 pro max again!

I really can't bring myself to buy a newer iPhone as, despite all the upgrades, I'll still be using Face ID at the end of the day and that just doesn't feel like a worthwhile purchase. Yet, I'm so firmly in the Apple camp and own so many computers, iPads, watches, Apple TVs, HomePods, etc that I really can't leave either. I was holding out hope for a more modern SE with Touch ID (perhaps a top or side button similar to the iPad) but that is looking unlikely at this point.

I think, reluctantly, I will venture into the Android territories for the next year or so. I actually did this once before back when Apple was so slow to release an iPhone with a larger screen. After my 4S, I got a Nexus 5 and did enjoy it until - finally - the 6 Plus came out and I was back on the first day of its release. So I'm guessing I will be begging Apple to once again take my money if they ever bring back Touch ID, improve Face ID, or come up with another creative solution!
TouchID, more accurately capacitive fingerprint scanner, is still the gold standard. Those under display fingerprint scanners (optical/ultrasonic) used on flagship Android phones are not better. They're still slower and less accurate than traditional TouchID. This is an interesting point in the market, where the premium method is cooler (under display) but in reality worse than the old method (capacitive).

I love FaceID on my 11 Pro. It works 100% of the time compared to the fingerprint scanner on my S21. The only downside is when I wear mask, then the fingerprint scanner has an obvious advantage.
 
I suppose if we're being generous, we could say that perhaps the EU ruling with regard to USB-C forced their hand, and so they had to shift strategy abruptly? It's had to imagine they wouldn't have had contingency plans. though.

I have to say, the rumors, if true, make it sound like a Pixel a-series device, though, with the largely similar dimensions and specs but with slightly worse parts. Speaking as a Pixel 3a user who is weighing a Pixel 7a or an updated iPhone SE as their next device, there are worse places to be taking inspiration from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: d686546s
...I don't necessarily want a smaller phone, but I love touch ID. I tolerate face ID & gestures on my 14+ because the phone is fantastic otherwise, but face ID has always been really fiddly for me. It works most of the time, but fails often enough to be annoying and is noticeably slower than touch ID.
FaceID was a solution in search of a problem. It is inferior to TouchID in every way (except for requiring real estate for the sensor). It is faster, can be used while talking, yawning, drinking coffee, etc. It can be used when the phone is flat on my desk or angled away from me at an NFC paypoint reader. It can be used while on my nightstand in the dark. It can be used in my pocket. It can be used without picking up my phone and pointing the camera at my face! It's funny/sad to see people fiddling with the angle of their phone and "posing" for FaceID, yet still praising it as being "progress"! Technology should work FOR the user, not the other way around.
Using ApplePay is where I find the most glaring inconvenience. With TouchID, I placed the phone near the reader with my thumb lightly on the sensor. That's it! No clicking, double-clicking, waking the phone, pointing the camera, or anything else! Plus, after all that, FaceID usually doesn't work and it says "Pay with passcode?" but then the phone is too far away and it says "place near reader". :rolleyes:
 
Why? The mini failed. It’s funny how people here on MacRumors and other Internet places clamor over the iPhone mini and yet literally nobody bought them. Apple listened to the demands of this small percentage of users and brought out an undersized and still powerful phone and all everyone did was cry about it and find every reason to bash it and encourage prospective buyers to steer clear. They made two generations even though the numbers showed it was to Apple’s detriment.

The market has shown time and time again that most people want bigger phones.
Except that Apple hasn't made a small phone for those of us who want it since the iPhone 5. The "Mini" was too big to be used one-handed. So Apple made a token gesture, but didn't satisfy much of the market with their too-big phone and outdated chip. I still want a 4" iPhone with top tech. That would be an engineering challenge for Apple and would be expensive, which is fine. $1500 for a 4" iPhone would be perfect for me.
 
  • Love
Reactions: bobthebuilderissus
As Klasma said and provided evidence for, the original SE was at least partially about size. Obviously, Apple is straying from that though.
It wasn't about size. It just happened to be convenient to market it that way.
What do you mean smaller phones have been historically cheaper to produce? That doesn't make any sense. The only reason they might be cheaper to produce than larger phones is lower cost of raw materials, but that difference in cost is not really going to change over time. Unless the cost of raw materials have plummeted so much that the difference in raw materials cost is now negligible. But that hasn't happened. And in fact, smaller tech can be more costly to produce than bigger tech. Miniaturization can make things more difficult and therefore more expensive.
Because the smaller iPhones are also historically the older models, based on older and now much cheaper technology. These phone might be smaller, but that doesn't mean the components inside are somehow harder to produce, because frankly its the opposite of that. So why make both of these strawman arguments in the first place, since you clearly understand this yourself?
But much more relevant than the difference in raw material cost difference is the difference in production cost. The relevant principle here, which you actually alluded to, is that OLD phones get cheaper--no matter the size. When the production cycle matures, things get more efficient and therefore cheaper, which is why SEs use previous generation phones. So it was no coincidence the SE1 was small--it was simply because the previous generation iPhone was small.
Are you trying to argue with someone just for arguments sake?
 
  • Like
Reactions: d686546s
Just update the mini series and retain the smaller form factor. The SE is the only apple device for those seeking the smaller form factor if the mini is being discontinued.
The higher specs can be retained for the higher end devices.
 
So Apple is going to have three 6.1" phones in its line-up? That won't be confusing at all... I'm not the first here to say it: just take the iPhone 12/13 mini and call it the new SE.
 
Not going to be OLED
Not going to have custom 5G modem
Agree.

SE 4 can only get the OLED 12, 13 or 14 have if iPhone 15 (standard) “graduates” to something markedly better (better ppi, higher nits, etc.)

That goes for cameras as well: SE 4 can only get dual rear cameras if iPhone 15 (standard) moves to triple cameras and iPhone 15 Pro moves to quad cameras (or adds some other additional high tech lens).

iPhones 13 and 14 will still be in the lineup once 15 drops, and 13, 14 and 15 will all be in the lineup in March 2024.

No way Apple is launching what’s essentially an iPhone 14 with a lower price tag while iPhone 13 and 14 are still in the lineup.

There has to be a huge caveat to the SE 4 if that’s the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SmugMaverick
FaceID was a solution in search of a problem. It is inferior to TouchID in every way (except for requiring real estate for the sensor). It is faster, can be used while talking, yawning, drinking coffee, etc. It can be used when the phone is flat on my desk or angled away from me at an NFC paypoint reader. It can be used while on my nightstand in the dark. It can be used in my pocket. It can be used without picking up my phone and pointing the camera at my face! It's funny/sad to see people fiddling with the angle of their phone and "posing" for FaceID, yet still praising it as being "progress"! Technology should work FOR the user, not the other way around.
Using ApplePay is where I find the most glaring inconvenience. With TouchID, I placed the phone near the reader with my thumb lightly on the sensor. That's it! No clicking, double-clicking, waking the phone, pointing the camera, or anything else! Plus, after all that, FaceID usually doesn't work and it says "Pay with passcode?" but then the phone is too far away and it says "place near reader". :rolleyes:

Ugh I really wanna switch my esim back to my SE now 😅 I've been using my 14+ since I got it because I spent good money on it and it IS a great phone, but god I miss touch ID soooo bad. The better camera and battery life are starting to not be a worthy trade-off anymore. Solution in search of a problem is exactly right- new technology is supposed to be better, faster, and more convenient than the tech it's replacing. That is NOT the case with face ID and this is a hill I will die on lol. I find myself avoiding using certain features like Apple pay and biometric app locks just b/c face ID is so inconvenient. I'm also convinced that some types of faces simply aren't suited for it. Most people love it, but I have not had a single notch model since 2020 where face ID worked reliably for me. There was nothing wrong with touch ID, I never had any issues with it and I don't care if face ID is supposedly more secure. The average thief wouldn't be able to bypass touch ID without cutting my thumb off, and I'm not important enough to ever worry about cops or the government ever trying to get into my phone. With that new security flaw about bad actors watching people type in their passcodes to over their Apple ID- I feel less secure with face ID b/c of how often I do have to enter my code now. Touch ID was plenty secure and more convenient.
 
Hahahhaha and here people actually believed the SE was “cancelled”.
I do believe that cancellation was actually a thing: Apple was toying with releasing the “XR” SE 4 but didn’t believe in it getting good enough sales numbers and eventually ditched it.

So specifically that SE 4 concept was canceled.

But, if we believe this rumor, that didn’t mean Apple ditched SE 4 altogether.

The alleged release of the “XR” SE 4 would also have been a year earlier than this new SE 4.

So, it’s really not the same device altogether even if both could be named “SE 4th Gen.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: SmugMaverick
I think you’re a bit confused with the SoC numbers. The iPhone 15 will have an A16 (5nm++) and the 15 Pro an A17 (3nm), while the next iPhone SE could come with either an A15 or an A16. Too many numbers, confusing, I know.
Hard to keep up sometimes!

My point is, I wonder if we'll see the SE using an older chip still - the A15 - a strategy which is pretty common with low end android phones, but not up to now with Apple (until the iPhone 14).

Else if both the regular iPhone 15 and SE4 are using the A16, it's hard to see what the iPhone 15 could have inside it that would justify an extra $200-250, if this report about the SE4 is true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Populus
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.