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Not on airplanes!!!! Many more people have been killed by Muslims/terrorists on an airplane than by guns ON AN AIRPLANE...we are talking about laptops being banned on airplanes, and not just in society (as you say), right?

For Heaven's sake: Pilot error has killed far more people than terrorists ever did.

As of yet, the situation is entirely hypothetical re laptops: Fact: No laptop has ever been used in such a manner, so the discussion is entirely theoretical just now.

Moreover, given - firstly - the bottomless mendacity of the current administration, and - secondly - their shameless attempt to tweak matters to favour the US airline (my computer's spell check insisted that I wanted to write "alien" - can't think why) - industry on the one hand, (by inconveniencing all other airlines flying to the US) while seeking to introduce the trappings of an autocratic, fear-filled, authoritarian state, on the other, - I can see several explanations for this proposed policy.

It is just that none of them are justified by the facts (rather than the fears).
 
She made this abundantly clear.



I think you mean terrorists, only, correct? Thought I suppose the Mayor of London is a terrorist, too, simply because he's Muslim.



Refer to quote reply #1.


"Abundantly clear" where? And I included "Muslims" specifically because the original post that garnered the comment was about Muslims specifically".
 
Sounds like a great business plan... for Canadian airlines. Going to the US? Just hop a no hassle flight to Montreal or Toronto first, and then head to your final destination.

Or those from Asia/Pacific region are choosing to fly to Europe via HongKong, Singapore, Dubai, etc etc etc rather than go through the hassle at the US boarder. Conferences in the EU are given higher preference than ones in the USA, etc etc etc.

This is a growing sentiment, and that kind of sentiment influences other purchasing decisions, and combine that with the revelations about the alphabet soup government departments spying and hacking and people world wide are loosing trust in the US and in US technology.
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Not on airplanes!!!! Many more people have been killed by Muslims/terrorists on an airplane than by guns ON AN AIRPLANE...we are talking about laptops being banned on airplanes, and not just in society (as you say), right?

And hundreds of times more Americans have been murdered by fellow Americans.

Combine that with the US prison population being the highest per capita in the world by a large margin the rest of the world should probably ban US citizens because statistically they are high risk.
 
For Heaven's sake: Pilot error has killed far more people than terrorists ever did.

As of yet, the situation is entirely hypothetical re laptops: Fact: No laptop has ever been used in such a manner, so the discussion is entirely theoretical just now.

Moreover, given - firstly - the bottomless mendacity of the current administration, and - secondly - their shameless attempt to tweak matters to favour the US airline (my computer's spell check insisted that I wanted to write "alien" - can't think why) - industry on the one hand, (by inconveniencing all other airlines flying to the US) while seeking to introduce the trappings of an autocratic, fear-filled, authoritarian state, on the other, - I can see several explanations for this proposed policy.

It is just that none of them are justified by the facts (rather than the fears).

Pilot error? I thought we were talking about guns and terrorists, and now you're talking about pilot error? I'm done.
 
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Loving the "deploy stricter gun control" posts ! I'm proud to be a citizen of a PRO gun country!..

Of course lets all ban guns so the criminals ( who get'em anyway ) have open access to a target rich environment. And, when they come in with their *assaults weapons* ( another LOL @ the term ) people just scream like lil bit*ches and wait for the slow ass cops to show up way AFTER the massacre!!

Lets all give up the ability to defend ourselves, and our families, and take it like a man either from the government or the terrorists!

Yeah pussyfy the US like the rest of the globe!

Wow, just wow! :rolleyes:
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Muslims can be found all over the globe, being one of the biggest religions and all that.

How unfortunate..
 
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Not on airplanes!!!! Many more people have been killed by Muslims/terrorists on an airplane than by guns ON AN AIRPLANE...we are talking about laptops being banned on airplanes, and not just in society (as you say), right?

Conflating Muslims with terrorists, are we?

I envy you the serene simplicity of your world view - untroubled by anything so complex as nuance or context - as evidenced in your posts.

This has nothing to do with Terrorists, this has everything to do with high profit legitimate customers being forced onto US owned aircraft.

By taking out the hubs for competing airlines, these passengers will instead use a flight where they CAN use their devices, and these hubs are where US owned aircraft have better access.

For example the USA has about 38 "Hubs" where various companies fly through , so instead of a direct flight you have a stop over in one of these hubs. It concentrates passengers and allows a greater efficiency and profit. If you ruin a hub (such as not allowing portable devices in the cabin) high profit customers will use an alternative airline.

This is all about removing competition for high paying customers in the from/to USA flight sector.

Excellent post. And well said.

I don't feel like getting hammered so I just won't say. I'd guess that many know where I'm coming from. It's the new reality. For now.

I still haven't a clue of what you are alluding to, let alone attempting to discuss.

But, puzzles are fun.

"Abundantly clear" where? And I included "Muslims" specifically because the original post that garnered the comment was about Muslims specifically".

And Muslims - as others have pointed out - are a major world religion and are found across the world. Moreover - and this may come as some surprise - not all Muslim cultures are the same (I have worked in a number of different Muslim countries to date across two continents); even within the same country, the interpretation of cultural norms and theological advice and guidance may differ quite strikingly between - say, Sunni and Shia, between rural and urban, between ethnicities, between the more educated and those who have not enjoyed such advantages - and so on.....

The world is curiously complicated and complex, you know.

Until some right wing paranoia takes on these dangerous books too. Looking at the logic applied to laptops, the clock's ticking for books.

Yes, I remember how in the wake of 9/11 there was an especially idiotic (and quite sinister) government plan to seek information on what books people checked out in libraries.

I used to teach politics (and history) for a living; that, added to an unhealthy desire to find out what was happening in the world - which meant extensive reading in areas that were not my academic specialities - would have meant that my library reading could have given rise to A Lot Of Awkward Questions.

Pilot error? I thought we were talking about guns and terrorists, and now you're talking about pilot error? I'm done.

And I am talking about reasons why those who died 1) violently in the US itself (your own lunatics - sometimes white alienated disaffected males, or gang stuff in deprived neighbourhoods, or 2) while airborne - died.

Few enough in the US - statistically speaking - have died as a result of terrorism, either in the mainland US itself, or airborne.

This is a profit grab - disguised by pleading the interests of national security proposed by an administration with neither competence, experience, moral authority nor any remote degree of intellectual credibility.

Nowadays, when this administration proposes something surreal, my first question is 1) what are they seeking to distract us from?

And my second is 2) how are they personally gaining form this - because they seem to have a problem understanding that the public good is not about lining the private pocket,

And my third observation is - 3) - as they clearly fail to understand the rights enshrined in the constitution, and view the separation of powers and the notion of constitutional checks and balances as an inconvenience put there simply and solely to thwart them out of mulish bloodymindedness, this is really another attempt to increase - in a most authoritarian manner - the rights of the state to snoop into, control and access the data of those entering and leaving the country.
 
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Most seem to be missing the fact that this will only apply to trips FROM Europe to the US, not your flight from the US to Europe.

Traveling as a fed or with one has its perks. Don't have to check anything, go through any detectors, or listen to these silly rules.
 
I fail to see how putting laptops in the hold would be safer than in the cabin. Actually, every scenario I can think of would make it more dangerous.
  • Assuming there is a bomb in the laptop, it could easily be controlled by a timer or a wifi/bluetooth command.
  • A laptop going in the cabin is scanned individually on the belt, giving the scanner a better view than if it's buried in a suitcase. I doubt the TSA has the resources to open and scan every laptop in checked luggage.
  • The way baggage handlers treat luggages pretty much ensures there will be more damage to the laptops and their batteries, increasing the chance of an explosion.
 
Until some right wing paranoia takes on these dangerous books too. Looking at the logic applied to laptops, the clock's ticking for books.
At some point they'll just make us fly nude with no luggage at all. Safety.
 
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There are these things called books.

I did, most of my life until I was one of the first to get a Kindle. What the heck is your point? I own close to a thousand books on shelves and in storage, and several hundred in e-format. It hasn't stopped from carrying around a regular book or two. I still buy hardbacks.

Actually, @Zenithal, I write as someone who loves books (who has three rooms of bookcase floor to ceiling in my house), who is a published author - I always travel with books in my briefcase (hardbacks included) especially on planes - but I would not wish to part with my computer.

Theft is one issue, but, so too, is unauthorised snooping.
 
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I fail to see how putting laptops in the hold would be safer than in the cabin. Actually, every scenario I can think of would make it more dangerous.
  • Assuming there is a bomb in the laptop, it could easily be controlled by a timer or a wifi/bluetooth command.
  • A laptop going in the cabin is scanned individually on the belt, giving the scanner a better view than if it's buried in a suitcase. I doubt the TSA has the resources to open and scan every laptop in checked luggage.
  • The way baggage handlers treat luggages pretty much ensures there will be more damage to the laptops and their batteries, increasing the chance of an explosion.

Like others have said, it's more in the financial interest and control over the purported safety concern.
 
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I'd imagine having money set aside to purchase a clean laptop from a store and logging into a offsite company website and downloading encrypted documentation will become the norm.

Leave the company laptop or VM (with all its confidential data and licensed applications) running at the office (in a secured room), and remote into it over a VPN from a new iPad running an approved Remote Desktop (or equivalent) client. For cheapskates, return the iPad to the foreign Apple Store within the 30 day return period.
 
Leave the company laptop or VM (with all its confidential data and licensed applications) running at the office (in a secured room), and remote into it over a VPN from a new iPad running an approved Remote Desktop (or equivalent) client. For cheapskates, return the iPad to the foreign Apple Store within the 30 day return period.
That's a solid idea.
 
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I am willing to bet that you will be the first in line yelling at government representatives, "why did you not protect my family member" when they are a victim of a terrorist attack. (yes, I know that statistically its rather low that it will happen to you but that is what many family members of victims thought right up to the time it did happen.) The reality is that these horrific things do happen and they have happened more than once, and government policy makers are required to plan and act accordingly.
Your main argument is that in the highly unlikely scenario of an American being a victim of a terrorist attack, someone who is more libertarian in their viewpoint than you, someone who might be emotionally devastated after a tragedy, affected by profound grief, might act illogical or inconsistent. Yes, you may be right. And that is why laws should be based on cold, hard facts whenever possible, not feelings or emotions.
 
4 more years of this idiocracy. This administration is a complete joke. Can't believe Americans elected Trump. Sad.
As if the 8 years prior were any better with regards to overzealous TSA screeners and precautions. In this particular instance, there obviously must exist some serious intelligence for such an egregious rule to be put in place.
 
Like others have said, it's more in the financial interest and control over the purported safety concern.
I fail to understand that part too. I can think of more ways this will lose money than make money.
  • Less tourism as traveling to the US is becoming more difficult
  • Less plane travel overall
  • Multinationals will hold meetings in other locations so people can attend, if they don't simply move more of their operations offshore
 
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