Larger iPhone 6, 'iPad Pro' and iWatch Could Tap New Display Sizes in Development

[Serelus]

That's just it. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. When it comes to screen sizes, it's all subjective opinion, and no one's wrong. If you like smaller devices, then...well...you like smaller devices. You're not wrong. Neither am I for wanting a larger device.



That's not fragmentation. A larger iPhone would only be a concern to developers, and wouldn't prevent end users from getting the same updates, or having trouble running the same apps as anyone else with other sized iDevices.

See this is your problem right here, you don't see a problem with a larger screens being added to the bunch just because you want a bigger screen.

While this does in fact cause fragmentation, because fragmentation also happens to cover apps that do not work properly or at all across all devices.
Which is going to happen, I can 100% guarantee you that.

People who bought the 4S back when it was released crawled their own eyes out or instantly had to upgrade, when the 5 came out.

Why? because developers who are alone like me JUMP the boat. I can't be bothered to keep developing my app at a lower resolution, while everyone is slowly upgrading. If you think this is all a simple task in iOS please try for yourself. The point that you so fondly neglect, is that what effects the developer also effects the user in that they might lose support for certain apps. Just like the iPhone 5 got exclusive apps, and iPad is getting exclusive apps.

 

[2IS]

See this is your problem right here, you don't see a problem with a larger screens being added to the bunch just because you want a bigger screen.

While this does in fact cause fragmentation, because fragmentation also happens to cover apps that do not work properly or at all across all devices.
Which is going to happen, I can 100% guarantee you that.

People who bought the 4S back when it was released crawled their own eyes out or instantly had to upgrade, when the 5 came out.

Why? because developers who are alone like me JUMP the boat. I can't be bothered to keep developing my app at a lower resolution, while everyone is slowly upgrading. If you think this is all a simple task in iOS please try for yourself. The point that you so fondly neglect, is that what effects the developer also effects the user in that they might lose support for certain apps. Just like the iPhone 5 got exclusive apps, and iPad is getting exclusive apps.

Apple going the way of blackberry if they had stuck with 3.5" forever is a far bigger issue than developers having to you know... Develop...

 

[Serelus]

Apple going the way of blackberry if they had stuck with 3.5" forever is a far bigger issue than developers having to you know... Develop...

I've never come across this selfish perspective of the community.

You're clearly missing the point here. This wil effect you and me.
If I were to be developing an App in my spare free time, and you'd be using that app I would not develop that app in 4 different resolutions. So you better start picking wisely because the app your best friend is using on his iPhone wil not be available to you. That is a sucky user experience, no one wants that. Keep everything the way it is. Thinking this wil not hurt the system is ignorant, and probably exactly why apple hasn't done it so far, and hopefully won't be doing it at all.

 

[mryingster]

The "taller" screen was a move to a 16x9 aspect ratio.

I went from a 4S to a 5S and I certainly enjoy it. Whenever I use someone's 4S today I can't stand it.

But that's just me

I wonder why all the fascination with 16:9 aspect ratio these days? Obviously it makes fine sense for TVs and entertainment. However, I prefer to have the 16:10 for my computer screens because I don't like giving up vertical space.

On the iPhone, it makes sense in portrait mode because there is more usable space, but in landscape, once menu bars and navigation are present, there is hardly any usable room left! It is nice for watching videos (vs the 4/4s), however I don't use my iPhone for watching videos very often.

Thats what my iPad is for... even though its 4:3...

 

[MythicFrost]

of course they will have to get more pixels in if they make the screen bigger. Who will buy a "premium" phone with low ppi?

Yes of course, but that doesn't mean they need to pick a resolution that breaks compatibility with current apps.

When you buy $700+ phone that cannot play 720P (the resolution of iPhone is lower than 720P natively, then yes, they need bump the resolution... And for god's sake, increase screen size is must...

I would never buy an other iPhone (currently have iPhone 4S, passed to my father, enjoying Nexus 5 big screen) if Apple does not offer larger iPhone.

See above. Increasing resolution and size is fine, but it isn't necessary to pick a resolution that will break app compatibility.

I don't think there will be a problem to the current app ecosystem if they make a bigger iPhone. They can easily scale up current applications to fit a bigger screen with a bigger resolution until developers readjust their apps.

Why would they use a resolution which requires developers to support the update when they could choose one that doesn't?

Bingo. It's nothing more than baseless speculation that Apple will introduce a larger iPhone. Even if they did, they aren't going to burden us with so many aspect ratios.

I really hope they don't.

While I agree that it´s certainly not desireable to have too many resolutions, Apple really needs to think about the future and the current resolution situation isn´t really the best base to continue.

1080p is an industry standard and it´s going to be here for years to come. With that resolution you also wouldn´t need to use scaling if you feed the display with native 1080p content. And even for other 16:9 content like 720p, there would only be minimal scaling involved, which leads to a better picture. Oh, and I didn´t even talk about downscaling. If we soon get 4K content, you would only need to reduce it to one fourth of the resolution to get 1080p. There are only positives to this and only very few negatives.

Apple should finally wipe the slate clean and go with the resolutions people actually use in their everyday life. The earlier, the better.

If they offer an iPhone 6 and they can make good improvements upon the great 5s, Apple will get my money again. But this time, I want a bit bigger screen (around 4,7" would be optimal, because that´s about the size I would consider practical for a smartphone) and hopefully 1080p.

Another important reason is that the iPad currently comes with 16:10, while the iMac already is 16:9 (if I remember right) and their Macbook Pros are 16:10. I highly doubt that Apple wants to skip 4K for future Macbook Pros or their Cinema displays so they would also adapt to an industry standard.

So in the future, 16:9 and hopefully 16:10 should be here to stay.

I don't really think there's any benefit to using a 720p resolution over the unusual 16:9 resolution that Apple presently has. Apple could bump the 6's resolution to 1704x960 without causing developers any grief which is what I'm hoping for.

As a paying consumer, I'll take a new phone and not give two poops if developers need to support more than 2 resolutions... It's their job, it's what they get paid to do.

You may not care, but developers do. It's one reason the platform is so popular. If I design an app I only need to worry about two different iPhone sizes, and one tablet size. I don't want them to keep adding more.

My real question is why people keep speculating that they'll use this odd resolutions, when there's a resolution that doesn't require developers making any changes.

 

[smoking monkey]

Having used my brother's 5.5 inch Galaxy device, I feel it's just too big for a normal phone user. It's crazy big and simply isn't something you can easily fit in a small jacket pocket or jeans pocket... Actually, that could be a good thing for our delicates in the long run though!!!

I'd love a bigger iPhone so my fingers have more leeway, but let's hope Apple gives us a choice. Seems they will.

 

[iRun26.2]

The MBP line will continue to get thinner and lighter, and will be the laptops line of choice for people needing to run OSes like OS X and softwares going with.
Apple will need to offer simpler laptop to use for home, running iOS with apps updated for the wider screen and use cases.
Compare your use of your Mac laptop and your iPad, the level of knowledge required for maintenance is not the same order of magnitude.
An iPad will never be able to comfortably replace a laptop, but current OS X laptops are too hard to use/configure/maintain/update/etc. for basic users. And I don't want OS X to be dumbed down.

I don't want the 11" MBA to be 'dumbed down' to the iOS level. Until there is an 11" MBP, there will be customers (like me) who will leave Apple if the ultra book sized 11" MBA goes with iOS / ARM.

I can easily see professionals who already own a 15" MBP still wanting an x86 compatible 11" MBA for ultra portability. There is no excuse for the 11" MBA to not have a retina class display and an x86 processor.

 

[2IS]

I've never come across this selfish perspective of the community.

You're clearly missing the point here. This wil effect you and me.
If I were to be developing an App in my spare free time, and you'd be using that app I would not develop that app in 4 different resolutions. So you better start picking wisely because the app your best friend is using on his iPhone wil not be available to you. That is a sucky user experience, no one wants that. Keep everything the way it is. Thinking this wil not hurt the system is ignorant, and probably exactly why apple hasn't done it so far, and hopefully won't be doing it at all.

If you're too lazy to develop your own app to work with Apple's latest phone, I don't want your app. If a developer is too lazy to offer proper support, their quality of work is likely sub par also. Like I said. If developers have to develop, that's fine with me. There's no shortage of apps out there and my money will go to those with proper hardware support.

You want developers making the money and not have to do extra work... I'm paying for the phone as well as the apps. There is certainly a lazy perspective here, and it isn't mine.

 

[Ieo]

My bet - the largest screen (what was it, 6.2"?) is actually for.....wait for it.....an iOS in the car head unit - that's a pretty standard size screen for a double din unit. Something tells me apple won't go that big for an iPhone.

 

[Bishope1999]

Good grief. They didn't pick 1136x640 just to be "different" or to go against standards. They took the original iPhone resolution of 480x320 and doubled it to 960x640 to make it easier on developers and to retain compatibility of older apps for users due to the simple doubling of pixels. They did it again by keeping the width of 640 and only increasing the height to 1136, again making it easier to update apps for the larger screen and to ensure compatibility with older ones. Going forward they may have no choice but to cause a transition headache for developers and users by going 720p and 1080p for their phones as I doubt 2272x1280 is feasible or even necessary.

The developers could put in some work to support a proper resolution.

 

[Smartass]

A *couple* of hours... You my friend are an ignorant and the same applies to the ones that gave you an up... but what do you expect with such a nickname...

couple of hours wasnt maent literally. So no "up" for you!

Had you made your argument without acting childish I would have agreed with you, but I guess you have to stick by your username.

i made my argument pretty damn well and i dont see where i acted "childish". Bus driver and detour is only a reference to constant crying from developers, how they dont want any screen size change, because they're too lazy to make apps fit 3 different sizes.

i made my argument without acting childish. I told them what they

I echo this. Never understood this mentality.

finally, somebody

 

[Serelus]

If you're too lazy to develop your own app to work with Apple's latest phone, I don't want your app. If a developer is too lazy to offer proper support, their quality of work is likely sub par also. Like I said. If developers have to develop, that's fine with me. There's no shortage of apps out there and my money will go to those with proper hardware support.

You want developers making the money and not have to do extra work... I'm paying for the phone as well as the apps. There is certainly a lazy perspective here, and it isn't mine.

Still missing the point, developing isn't always a matter of "Doing your job" for some of us it's a hobby, meaning it's a matter of TIME, not money. And alot of those "sub par" apps you're talking about are made by these kinds of people.

The way it works now is you meet someone with an iPhone, he tells you: "Heey man this app works great" and you respond with: "Oh nice i'll try it out later." This is practically over. 1 app is available on 5.5" iPhone and the other is available on 4" iPhone. Once apple releases the sales results which iPhone is most popular, from then on that is going to be the iPhone with the most developer support, leaving you and your preferred screen size in the dust.

Are you really incapable of seeing how this doesn't only turn out positive for those getting a new screen size? But it also has negative effects for everyone in general?

couple of hours wasnt maent literally. So no "up" for you!


i made my argument pretty damn well and i dont see where i acted "childish". Bus driver and detour is only a reference to constant crying from developers, how they dont want any screen size change, because they're too lazy to make apps fit 3 different sizes.

i made my argument without acting childish. I told them what they
finally, somebody

Your posts propose, or rather insinuate that it shouldn't be a big deal for developers to update their apps.
Because it's "their job". This is false, and definitely not true for all developers.

Infering these kinds of things, while not having any understanding of the app developer fundamentals is ignorant, and downright insulting.

 

[chleuasme]

I don't want the 11" MBA to be 'dumbed down' to the iOS level. Until there is an 11" MBP, there will be customers (like me) who will leave Apple if the ultra book sized 11" MBA goes with iOS / ARM.

I can easily see professionals who already own a 15" MBP still wanting an x86 compatible 11" MBA for ultra portability. There is no excuse for the 11" MBA to not have a retina class display and an x86 processor.

By the end of 2014 or in 2015, the next generation of intel mobile proc (Broadwell) will probably allow to make a MBP13 at least as powerful as today but even more power efficient. We're probably not far from the time the rMBP13 could fit in a MBA13 enclosure with no loss of capacity. At this time, it will probably as well be possible to make a 11.6" rMBP if there is a market for it.
What do you do when your MBA and MBP lines are the same? Ultrabook will probably simply be the name for laptops soon.
And I doubt you can make a retina MBA11 with Haswell today as thin and power-efficient as today's non-retina MBA11. The current rMBP13's IRIS part can barely drive its screen.

There is probably more customers and margins to gain with a sub-1k$ iOS laptop sold for home than with the current MBA11 sales (and considering part of the MBA line customers can switch to a lighter MBP13 if the MBA line disappear).
Chromebook and Windows 8(RT) laptops aren't yet a threat, but they are only first iterations of simple to use products that will probably be the future for home computing. Apple needs to address this market, and needs to take the train in time.

What do you do in the remaining time? Introducing the new line of iOS laptops I'm talking about (at the expense of a temporary disappearance of the MBA line, if it comes early) would allow for a better transition, to better see in what direction let evolve and enhance iOS, and let 3rd party software adapt to the new form factor and usages.

 

[GeneralChang]

i made my argument pretty damn well and i dont see where i acted "childish".

Bahaha! Um… yes, most children don’t recognize when they’re acting childish.

Honestly, I don’t even know what your argument was. I just find the petty response to what was actually a fairly amiable reply ironic.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I wonder why all the fascination with 16:9 aspect ratio these days? Obviously it makes fine sense for TVs and entertainment. However, I prefer to have the 16:10 for my computer screens because I don't like giving up vertical space.

On the iPhone, it makes sense in portrait mode because there is more usable space, but in landscape, once menu bars and navigation are present, there is hardly any usable room left! It is nice for watching videos (vs the 4/4s), however I don't use my iPhone for watching videos very often.

Thats what my iPad is for... even though its 4:3...

I don't think it's necessarily a fascination with 16:9... but most phones these days are 16:9

It just kinda ended up that way.

A lot of iPhone apps are portrait so that extra vertical space really helps over the old iPhone screen. And videos look better in widescreen too.

I also like 16:10 on the desktop... but I greatly prefer the iPhone's 16:9 to the old 3:2

 

[MythicFrost]

One of the reasons the App Store is so huge, and that there's so many developers making apps for it, is because Apple has limited fragmentation.

At present it's still very simple to design an app for iOS, but if they keep adding new resolutions that require developers to support then it's going to become unpleasant in a few years.

And that's going to result in more work for developers -- which could mean higher prices, less developer interest, or increased development times, depending on how fragmented it becomes and how much extra work is necessary.

So if things go that route, it may very well effect the consumers.

Why had to have it a point?

There is no physical law, that says 300 ppi is enough. More is always better. Later this year or 2015, will be 4k the norm for a high end tablets. It is a irreversible process. Last SID, manufacturers showed display prototypes for this application. It is more of a SoC than display problem. The current SoC generation is not designed for this use. But there will come: Nvidia Tegra K1, Apple A8(X), Qualcomm Snapdragon 805 and Intel Atom 'Bay Trail'.

No but there's trade offs involved. As resolution goes up to increase PPI, frame rate and battery life come down. The question isn't "is more than 300 PPI better", but "is it worth it"? And I'd say after that 300 mark there's not much point.

 

[TouchMint.com]

Do you have screen size hard coded in your app?

for 3.5inch , 4inch, and ios7 4inch. Not only backgrounds/images but what appears on screen and how things react. Some of my apps for 3.5inch display and react totally different than 4inch.

If i want to support back to ios 5 and in some cases ios 4.3 I have to do it that way. Since my apps are pretty simple theres no reason I shouldn't support those on older devices that cannot upgrade.

 

[SirLance99]

Still missing the point, developing isn't always a matter of "Doing your job" for some of us it's a hobby, meaning it's a matter of TIME, not money. And alot of those "sub par" apps you're talking about are made by these kinds of people.

The way it works now is you meet someone with an iPhone, he tells you: "Heey man this app works great" and you respond with: "Oh nice i'll try it out later." This is practically over. 1 app is available on 5.5" iPhone and the other is available on 4" iPhone. Once apple releases the sales results which iPhone is most popular, from then on that is going to be the iPhone with the most developer support, leaving you and your preferred screen size in the dust.

Are you really incapable of seeing how this doesn't only turn out positive for those getting a new screen size? But it also has negative effects for everyone in general?

Your posts propose, or rather insinuate that it shouldn't be a big deal for developers to update their apps.
Because it's "their job". This is false, and definitely not true for all developers.

Infering these kinds of things, while not having any understanding of the app developer fundamentals is ignorant, and downright insulting.

So what I'm reading from all your posts is that nothing should ever change. Keep it all the same....forever. Well that's something I want no part of. I welcome change because that means progress.

You do realize that technology progresses and changes due to enhancements made over time. Apple will at some point have to change the aspects of the screen at some point or be left behind.

Developers shouldn't have to develop for different screen sizes as they should automatically scale.

 

[thenewone]

Apple could bump the 6's resolution to 1704x960 without causing developers any grief which is what I'm hoping for.
...
My real question is why people keep speculating that they'll use this odd resolutions, when there's a resolution that doesn't require developers making any changes.

Exactly! 1704x960 would be perfect, for multiple reasons.

Coincidentally, the current retina iPad app icons (152x152) would end up being just the right size for a new iPhone of this resolution (assuming the new iPhone is 4.7", which would make it 416ppi), so as to keep the iPhone's same 4x5 grid (4x6 including dock) with the icons being roughly the same *physical* size as they are now on the iPhone 5/5s. Cool

EDIT: Or something that retains the same 326ppi would also be acceptable, like 1335x752 (for a 4.7" iPhone).

isn't dumb...I'm sure they will settle on something that limits the amount of fragmentation.

 

[Renzatic]

Buttons, icons and other interface elements will stay the same size if they keep the same screen density.

A larger screen doesn't automatically means increased PPI. In fact it's harder to produce larger high PPI screens. (To anyone expecting 12" 4K screens in 2014, tough luck...)

That's why I think the larger devices won't go over 324 PPI. (The benefits are not big enough to justify forcing devs to resize all of their touch targets and artwork).

If they make a 5.7" phablet at 1536x1024 (324PPI) for example, buttons will appear the same size. Much the UI elements appear the same size (physically and internally in terms of pixel size) on both the iPhone and iPad mini.

The 9.7" iPad has a lower PPI, so it makes the UI a little bigger but not too much, so it's not a problem for finger usage and thus doesn't require devs to resize UI elements.

Well hell, you're right. I was thinking of it in terms of raw resolution, when I should've realized that an inch is an inch regardless. If it's got the same amount of pixels in the same amount of space, then the icons will remain the same size.

What it'd do is keep the icons the same size, but allow for extra space to work with. That's exactly what Apple did going from the iPhone 4S to the 5, where the resolution bump at the same pixel density allowed for an extra row of icons. It wouldn't require devs to completely rework every single piece of art in their apps, but it could still require some tweaking on their part, since the bump up could mess up their layout a bit.

 

[iSunrise]

Exactly! 1704x960 would be absolutely perfect, for multiple reasons.

Yes, for multiple "developer" reasons. 1704x960 would be absolutely ridiculous for multiple reasons. I already mentioned why.

But we´ll see soon enough. I will certainly not buy an iPhone 6 with just that minor resolution bump. Too little, too late.

The A7 is already WAY overpowered for a screen size and resolution like on the current 5s. Why would you want to make that even worse with the ever increasing SoC performance and only increasing the resolution with such tiny and uneven steps. It just doesn´t make any sense.

 

[Renzatic]

While this does in fact cause fragmentation, because fragmentation also happens to cover apps that do not work properly or at all across all devices.
Which is going to happen, I can 100% guarantee you that.

Does having a multitude of resolutions to select from across multiple screen sizes fragment the OSX ecosystem? Does the retina Macbook Pro somehow make an application unusable on a Macbook Air that's exact one half the resolution?

I will admit that these aren't 100% comparable scenarios since a smaller icon on 13" MBA is just as easy to hit on the 11" Air. When it comes to touch devices, the size of your UI elements plays a much more important part in the overall comfort of the device. You're hitting stuff with a far less precise pointing instrument. Your finger vs. a mouse cursor.

...but that's why we've got vectors, where a developer is set completely free from the confines of resolution, and only has to worry about percentages. The only thing that has to be taken into account is the smallest screen in a line up, then built up from there. Your icons will still be just as crisp on a 5 inch screen as they will on a 4 inch, with the only trade off being that they're very slightly larger on the bigger display. And even that can easily be accounted and compensated for.

 

[krravi]

My guess is this:

iPhone 3GS - "S" meant "speed"
iPhone 4S - "S" meant "Siri"
iPhone 5S - "S" meant "security"
iPhone 6S - "S" stands for "size"

Or it could be Silly.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Same thing EVERYONE on here does

Ah, the "everyone does it" excuse. I used to tell that to my mom when I was 5 and she'd ask me if everyone jumped off a bridge, would I. Of course, some people here might still be 5, I'm not sure.

Sorry, using opinion as fact to support your statement doesn't make it any more valid if "everyone else" makes up facts to support their statements too. You have an opinion, and that's fine, but opinion is not fact. A fact is provable. You can't prove that the vast majority of iPhone users want a larger phone. All you can do is state, in your opinion, you believe that is the case. In my, opinion, not even a slight majority want a larger phone, but there is a decent sized market for a larger phone, nonetheless.

 

[thenewone]

Yes, for multiple "developer" reasons.
...
The A7 is already WAY overpowered for a screen size and resolution like on the current 5s. Why would you want to make that even worse with the ever increasing SoC performance and only increasing the resolution with such tiny and uneven steps. It just doesn´t make any sense.

Yes, for developer reasons, this is true.

The A7 (and the future A8) are definitely capable of much higher resolutions, but still at the cost of battery life, though I'm sure 1920x1080 could probably be a sweet spot.

To be honest, it does make sense for to get on a more "standard" [resolution] scale...but then again, that has never been like them. It would have been wonderful had the original iPhone been 540x360, retina 1080x720, iPhone 5 1280x720, and iPhone 6 finally jump to full 1080p. There would have been [virtually] no fragmentation, and they would certainly not be in the predicament they are in now (with developers).

But alas, you are right...we shall see soon enough what happens.

----------------

...but that's why we've got vectors, where a developer is set completely free from the confines of resolution, and only has to worry about percentages.

Yes, this is the most logical thing to do.