Lawsuit Against Apple's Faulty Butterfly Keyboards Moves Forward

twolf2919

macrumors regular
Aug 26, 2014
166
264
"Many" lawsuits in the US are frivolous - and class actions usually do not benefit the consumer....However, in this case, Apple has been selling a known defective keyboard. The internal numbers are much, much higher than 2%. The best we can hope for as consumers is for Apple to never repeat this mistake - and to receive some financial punishment.
A link to a large study showing "much higher than 2%" defect rate please. I was under the impression that the butterfly keyboard was much worse than the previous scissor keyboards, but still *much* less than 1%.

As far as Apple knowingly selling a defective keyboard, that's obviously wrong as it's working just fine at the time of sale. At worst, it's been knowingly selling a keyboard with a higher defect rate than its predecessors.
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2011
4,856
11,277
New England
and class actions usually do not benefit the consumer
Not trying to start an argument, just clarifying this because I see it all the time and I think people misunderstand what class actions are for.

Class actions are not supposed to benefit the consumer. They're supposed to punish the company that is doing something wrong, and reward the people and law firm that litigate the case.

Think of class actions as the attorney general of your state outsourcing some of their consumer-protections enforcement to the private sector. Normally, if a company does something that harms all consumers, the AG should investigate them and punish them if needed. But most AGs can't take on every instance of consumer harm, so the system of class actions allows anyone to use the courts to accomplish the same thing.

The point is to reward those that take it upon themselves to enforce consumer protections or to punish a company that has wronged consumers on a large scale. Doing this of course is risky, a law firm can spend millions and end up losing, so the reward must be large enough to warrant the risk. To the extent ALL consumers get any benefit at all is just a tiny little bonus, usually for PR more than anything else.
 

HiVolt

macrumors 6502a
Sep 29, 2008
589
2,082
Toronto, Canada
What would be nice, if Apple actually owned the issue 100%, and designed replacement top cases with a scissor keyboard for all 2015-2019 Macbooks, and extend the repair program for 5 years from NOW, not from year of purchase, as much of these were bought in 2015/16/17.

And they should replace them even if the user isn't having problems, because they will in time anyway.

They have the money to do this. This isn't some company scraping by.

Own it Tim. Fix it right. F**k the shareholders for once.
 

cwagdev

macrumors newbie
Jul 7, 2016
15
71
Arizona
"Apple has faced public scrutiny and many, many complaints". please define "many, many": 6, 100, 1000, 10% of owners? Seems more like a made up issue by a few loud influencers, maybe even paid influencers, than a real one. I'd say it was not many, many unless the defect rate exceeded say 2% of owners.

And no don't go saying, "but there is a lawsuit". it is simply fashionable to sue Apple for anything you can. Some have merit, many are thrown out.
As someone who is on their 4th keyboard replacement I can guarantee you that it is not made up. Now I use my MacBook with an external keyboard and a cover over the built in one to try and lengthen its life as much as I can.
 

rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
3,493
3,431
PHX, AZ.
Keyboard failure is one of our top issues with our company issued MacBook Pros.
I personally haven't had one fail yet, but I'm on my 3rd MacBook Pro in 2 years.
1st one the SSD failed, second one had a faulty battery that swelled (Apple REALLY wanted that one to analyze). 3rd time is a charm I guess. This one is holding strong after 3 months.
 

skiwildcat7

macrumors newbie
Jul 14, 2007
13
8
CT
these keyboards are the worst thing Apple has ever put out. I'm glad this is going forward, maybe eventually they'll admit fault. Myself and half my co workers have had issues with these keyboards. It's def not a loud 10% or 2% or whatever, I would say it's at least 50% or not more.
 

slvrscoobie

macrumors 6502a
Mar 24, 2013
586
131
NJ
Am I the minority who doesn’t mind the butterfly keyboard? I haven’t had any problems with it. I do, however, like Apple’s magic keyboard more because of its key travel and satisfying click... I’m looking forward to when Apple introduces the scissor keyboard on the smaller MacBook Pro.
Im there with you, never had a problem, but i use the magic keyboard at home, probably 75% of the time, so its not like im a novelist at starbucks pounding away on it. (TWSS)
 

robinp

macrumors 6502
Feb 1, 2008
407
402
Except that almost everyone who has one loves them and has had no problems with them. I think it would make a better story on social influencing, that actually defective design.

I'd love just one of these "OMG there are so bad" types to come up with any statistics whatsoever. Wouldn't the after market warranty providers have a number? Certainly if they are repairing them, they must no how many
this is such flawed thinking. Just because you might not know anyone who has had the problem doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem. The statistical significance of you and the peopleyou know is almost 0.

out of the two we have at work, one has been replaced and is failing again. The other is failing.

that’s a 3 out of 3 failure rate. Granted, just for us, but no product should be failing at such frequency in EXACTLY the same way.

the keyboard is not fit for purpose.
 

Ma2k5

macrumors 68020
Dec 21, 2012
2,319
2,181
London
Except that almost everyone who has one loves them and has had no problems with them. I think it would make a better story on social influencing, that actually defective design.

I'd love just one of these "OMG there are so bad" types to come up with any statistics whatsoever. Wouldn't the after market warranty providers have a number? Certainly if they are repairing them, they must no how many
Basically “I like them so there is a conspiracy/blown up report on these keyboards because, if I like them it definitely must mean it can’t be bad for lots of other people and this is just a farce”.

Seriously dude, get a grip. If you think a company would risk bad press by having a repair programme (which is admitting fault) because of some loud voices you are seriously deluded.
 

otternonsense

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2016
1,201
3,879
Berlin
Good. I hope they bleed them for this travesty of a keyboard that kept on uninterrupted for over 3 years. Hit Tim where it hurts: PR first, wallet second.
 
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CHA05 R31GN5

Suspended
Oct 31, 2019
165
251
United States
hahahah, so funny. you can't backup your claim with any numbers, don't make it. Name calling is so mature
You didn't have any "numbers" with your idiotic claim so it was fair game on your remarks. There were enough numbers for a civil suit. This isn't the same type of suit that you'd like to attribute with patent infringement claims. Get off Apple's tip.
 

citysnaps

macrumors 603
Oct 10, 2011
5,236
8,092
San Francisco
"Many" lawsuits in the US are frivolous - and class actions usually do not benefit the consumer....However, in this case, Apple has been selling a known defective keyboard. The internal numbers are much, much higher than 2%. The best we can hope for as consumers is for Apple to never repeat this mistake - and to receive some financial punishment.
What are the numbers, then?
 
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haydn!

macrumors 65816
Nov 10, 2008
1,006
951
UK
Waste of everyone's time. Nothing meaningful comes out of class action suits.

The keyboard was redesigned. Let's move on.
Erm. Yes, it was redesigned. But that doesn't help people with 2016-2018 MacBooks that have the faulty keyboard. Apple may now offer a free repair programme, but they're just replacing faulty keyboards with faulty keyboards. It is out of order on a $1.5k+ notebook.
 

iFan

macrumors member
Jan 3, 2007
44
97
A link to a large study showing "much higher than 2%" defect rate please. I was under the impression that the butterfly keyboard was much worse than the previous scissor keyboards, but still *much* less than 1%.

As far as Apple knowingly selling a defective keyboard, that's obviously wrong as it's working just fine at the time of sale. At worst, it's been knowingly selling a keyboard with a higher defect rate than its predecessors.
Inside information. Befriend any individual who works in an Apple store and they will tell you that these keyboards are the Bain of their existence. Similar to the battery replacements a couple years ago and the white MacBook top case repairs almost a decade ago. Their internal percentages are in the double digits. And that doesn't even include people like me who had them replaced once and gave up on doing it a second or third time.

(former employee and still current large stockholder)
 

coolfactor

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2002
4,396
4,037
Vancouver, BC
Yeah, Apple's butterfly keyboard was a failure. Otherwise, they'd have never finally abandoned the design and went back to scissor switches. ... Apple fanboys and cultists can piss off about this. It's legitimate.
Apple publicly stated that they are not abandoning the butterfly design. They will continue to refine it to address the source of the problems. Wasn't it debris getting under the keys that was the source of the problems in nearly every case? It's not like the mechanism itself was failing, but the slim design could not handle "natural dirt and dust" well. They still believe that the butterfly design is superior, but just doesn't stand up to real-world usage.

I think they have a good chance of winning since they put a full repair program in place, continued to refine the design, and brought back the scissor design in the meantime. They did not ignore the problem.
 

LV426

macrumors 6502a
Jan 22, 2013
863
288
Umm, class action lawsuits almost never go anywhere and if they do are usually pennies for the company? They are a waste of everyone's time, except lawyers.
I remember getting a refund from Apple iBooks after their anticompetitive pricing policy fell foul of a class action lawsuit.
 
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Freida

macrumors 68000
Oct 22, 2010
1,834
2,002
Waste of everyone's time. Nothing meaningful comes out of class action suits.

The keyboard was redesigned. Let's move on.
Everything will probably come out of this. (we hope)
The keyboard was redesigned but that doesn't mean anything to existing users. I didn't have the issue for a long time but eventually got it too. Sure Apple replaced it for free but that is not changing the fact that:

a) resale value of my computer is terrible
b) I can't hold the computer for long time as eventually I will be stucked with ****** keyboard

So, Apple messed up badly with this one and its only fair that this gets some resolution. Replacing faulty keyboard with another one that will fail eventually is not a proper solution. You just simply can't expect people to be happy with flawed design from the start.
There are times to defend Apple and there are times that Apple has to make it right. This is the time to make it right. The repair program is a joke as they still keep giving you the ****** design. So yeah, this is not a waste of time. If Apple stepped up and corrected the issue properly then this lawsuit wouldn't be needed but Apple thought repair program is enough. IT IS NOT!