Lawsuit Against Apple's Faulty Butterfly Keyboards Moves Forward

Dammit Cubs

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What a pointless Class Action Lawsuit.....this is the world we live in today, we have to sue everything that moves.
 
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robjulo

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Jul 16, 2010
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Your initial comment was the suit would go nowhere. You have zero substantive knowledge of it. None.

All you have is a posting track record that everyone here knows.


Stand by it all you want. Class action lawsuits have a huge failure rate and when they do succeed, are almost always meaningless for the consumer and do not materially hurt the company sued. Fact.

They are almost always a complete waste of time except for lawyers.

Some of the biggest class action suits ever are for companies still around and the others are accounting fraud or health related. They are slaps on the wrist at worst. There has never been a material one against a tech company.
 

BigBoy2018

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Until recently I worked at a company where we have over 100,000 MacBook Pros. I sat next to 50 other people with MacBooks (replaced every 3-4 years). They were used daily. About 40% of my coworkers have experienced keyboard problems with the newer MacBooks. Most of the time people just pound on the bad key or blow on it until the problem is resolved.
Hey you ... @Baymowe335 @MauiPa @twolf2919 @citysnaps @Jefe's MacAir and the rest of the small batch of posters who repeatedly defend the faulty apple keyboards ...

I suppose you think @randyhudson is just lying, right?
 

Glockworkorange

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Attorney here.

Just so everyone is really clear on this.....

This lawsuit, and 99% of the class action lawsuits you see, and certainly 100% of the class action lawsuits against Apple, are encouraged, pushed and maintained by crooked Plaintiff lawyers.

This is a money grab from Apple with the lawyers the primary beneficiaries.
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Your initial comment was the suit would go nowhere. You have zero substantive knowledge of it. None.

All you have is a posting track record that everyone here knows.
His comment here, the one you responded to, is accurate though.
 

rjp1

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2015
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I’m glad these were a disaster. Having a keyboard with almost no travel was terrible. Up to the mid 2012 models had awesome keyboards.

Still wondering who came up with the decision to change it. They’ve really become out of touch.

“I think people will like typing on a keyboard with no key travel. It’s just like typing on an iPad! I see our techs do it every day in the store.”
 
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Glockworkorange

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Hey all you ... @Baymowe335 @MauiPa @twolf2919 @citysnaps @Jefe's MacAir and the rest of the small batch of posters who repeatedly defend the faulty apple keyboards ...

I suppose you think @randyhudson is just lying, right?
I don't think anyone can defend these keyboards. I mean, maybe someone can say "well, for me, no issues.." but in general?

Not defensible. Unless someone thinks a company having a 4 or 5 year warranty on a keyboard right out of the box is defensible.
 

citysnaps

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Hey you ... @Baymowe335 @MauiPa @twolf2919 @citysnaps @Jefe's MacAir and the rest of the small batch of posters who repeatedly defend the faulty apple keyboards ...

I suppose you think @randyhudson is just lying, right?
Defending? Huh? Who's defending the keyboard? Not me. Mine, though, is fantastic. I'm typing faster and more accurately than on previous keyboards.

Perhaps you shouldn't speak on behalf of others, or suggest they believe another is lying, if you're not able to get what they're saying straight.
 

rjp1

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2015
299
776
Attorney here.

Just so everyone is really clear on this.....

This lawsuit, and 99% of the class action lawsuits you see, and certainly 100% of the class action lawsuits against Apple, are encouraged, pushed and maintained by crooked Plaintiff lawyers.

This is a money grab from Apple with the lawyers the primary beneficiaries.
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His comment here, the one you responded to, is accurate though.
I’ll never understand the people here that will defend Apple over everything. The keyboard was obviously flawed. So blame the lawyers representing the people that bought the flawed product?
 

Glockworkorange

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I’ll never understand the people here that will defend Apple over everything. The keyboard was obviously flawed. So blame the lawyers representing the people that bought the flawed product?
No, you're right. I had a busted keyboard on a 2018 13 inch. I got it fixed. It broke again a week after I got it back.

The keyboards, quality control-wise, are a disaster.

But that is not why class action law suits exist.
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Defending? Huh? Who's defending the keyboard? Not me. Mine, though, is fantastic. I'm typing faster and more accurately than on previous keyboards.

Perhaps you shouldn't speak on behalf of others, or suggest they believe another is lying, if you're not able to get what they're saying straight.
Rene Ritchie, is that you?
 

satchmo

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Aug 6, 2008
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I'd be so curious to understand what goes on within Apple sometimes. They know they have a flawed design and they keep making more and more of it. Then they replace the flawed design with the same exact flawed design. Why?

Everyone makes mistakes, and it happens that a product ends up with a major design issue. But then why make the same mistake over and over again across multiple models and generations of products? It's just so weird.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that version 3 of the butterfly design basically corrected any issues. It then became an matter of preference and not functionality.

So in the eyes of Apple, the issue was resolved...but by then there had been so much bad publicity surrounding the term butterfly keyboard, that Apple did an about face. They had to. Even if there was nothing further to fix. To restore the confidence of millions of potential MacBook Pro buyers moving forward.
 

Glockworkorange

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that version 3 of the butterfly design basically corrected any issues. It then became an matter of preference and not functionality.

So in the eyes of Apple, the issue was resolved...but by then there had been so much bad publicity surrounding the term butterfly keyboard, that Apple did an about face. They had to. Even if there was nothing further to fix. To restore the confidence of millions of potential MacBook Pro buyers moving forward.
I used a 2019 MacBook Pro with the butterfly for about six months without issue.

I think they probably fixed it, but you're right---they had to fix it given the publicity.
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Rather than resort to juvenile antics, why not just address my post?
What, that the keyboard works fine for you?

I'm sure that's true.

I'm equally sure I had to replace a keyboard on a three month old 2018 13 inch and then I had to replace the replacement 5 days after I got it back.

Apple also offered a 4 (or maybe 5?) year warranty immediately out of the box for the 2019 (non 16 inch models).

I don't know how you say (not you specifically) there's not a manufacturing defect with these things when Apple is giving you a four year warranty on a standard issue laptop part.

There's more than a minor manufacturing issue with the butterfly keyboards from 2015 to 2018.

2019 might have fixed it, but the fact Apple made three generations and added that warranty is objective evidence of a flawed design. That's BEFORE adding in anecdotal evidence.

I mean, are you defending it?

And just so my position is clear---I am very much against using a class action for this problem. It's the wrong tool. You don't need a hammer to swat a mosquito.
 
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citysnaps

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I used a 2019 MacBook Pro with the butterfly for about six months without issue.

I think they probably fixed it, but you're right---they had to fix it given the publicity.
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What, that the keyboard works fine for you?

I'm sure that's true.

I'm equally sure I had to replace a keyboard on a three month old 2018 13 inch and then I had to replace the replacement 5 days after I got it back.

Apple also offered a 4 (or maybe 5?) year warranty immediately out of the box for the 2019 (non 16 inch models).

I don't know how you say (not you specifically) there's not a manufacturing defect with these things when Apple is giving you a four year warranty on a standard issue laptop part.

There's more than a minor manufacturing issue with the butterfly keyboards from 2015 to 2018.

2019 might have fixed it, but the fact Apple made three generations and added that warranty is objective evidence of a flawed design. That's BEFORE adding in anecdotal evidence.

I mean, are you defending it?
No.
 

iamMacPerson

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Jun 12, 2011
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Apple publicly stated that they are not abandoning the butterfly design. They will continue to refine it to address the source of the problems. Wasn't it debris getting under the keys that was the source of the problems in nearly every case? It's not like the mechanism itself was failing, but the slim design could not handle "natural dirt and dust" well. They still believe that the butterfly design is superior, but just doesn't stand up to real-world usage.

I think they have a good chance of winning since they put a full repair program in place, continued to refine the design, and brought back the scissor design in the meantime. They did not ignore the problem.
Ahhh yes, 'We're not abandoning this failed product, we're going to work to fine tune it and bring it back at a later date!'. Technically the G4 Cube was never abandoned either, it's just apparently on the furthest, coldest iceberg somewhere.
 
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Glockworkorange

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Apple publicly stated that they are not abandoning the butterfly design. They will continue to refine it to address the source of the problems. Wasn't it debris getting under the keys that was the source of the problems in nearly every case? It's not like the mechanism itself was failing, but the slim design could not handle "natural dirt and dust" well. They still believe that the butterfly design is superior, but just doesn't stand up to real-world usage.

I think they have a good chance of winning since they put a full repair program in place, continued to refine the design, and brought back the scissor design in the meantime. They did not ignore the problem.
Oh my. Is this a parody or a troll? You don't really believe this, do you?
 

iamMacPerson

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I will say, I have a penchant for burning though MacBooks like crazy and having them replace all the time but my 2018 in the first one I haven't had to take in for repairs yet. The keyboard doesn't even have any sticky keys yet and the machine is almost a year and a half old. However, there are still a lot of people with 2018s and 19s with the problem so I'm just waiting for it to inevitably happen. IIRC, the 2015-2017 are getting replaced with the 2017 revision keyboard which means they are still more prone to failure than the 3rd Gen butterfly keyboard found on the 2018 and 2019 models.
 

Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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The backstory on this keyboard would be fascinating. It obviously started with the MacBook. But where did the MacBook come from? What were the decisions around making and releasing that product. And when/how was it decided to bring that keyboard to the MacBook Pro? These decisions weren’t made by one person. What was the testing of this keyboard like? How did Apple not catch these issues before green lighting this keyboard mechanism for use in products? And once issues were discovered why did it take so long to course correct? For that last one I put the blame squarely on Tim Cook. He should have hauled design, engineering and operations into his office and said is want this fixed now.
 

Glockworkorange

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Feb 10, 2015
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I will say, I have a penchant for burning though MacBooks like crazy and having them replace all the time but my 2018 in the first one I haven't had to take in for repairs yet. The keyboard doesn't even have any sticky keys yet and the machine is almost a year and a half old. However, there are still a lot of people with 2018s and 19s with the problem so I'm just waiting for it to inevitably happen. IIRC, the 2015-2017 are getting replaced with the 2017 revision keyboard which means they are still more prone to failure than the 3rd Gen butterfly keyboard found on the 2018 and 2019 models.
You just jinxed yourself.
 

chiltonwebb3

macrumors newbie
Dec 2, 2019
2
3
100% of the MacBook Pros I've seen since they shipped thi smodel have this and oter keyboard problme.s

And if I turn OFF the automatic spell correction...
100% of the MacBook Pros I've seeeeen since ethey shipsped thiss modeel havethiss and dother keybboard prooblemss.

I reeplaceed one keybaor dand it still hass this problem. The keybobard on thiss MacBook Pro hass it too and I just haveen't takeen it in yett.

It makees me reaelly hatee Applee.
 

Glockworkorange

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Feb 10, 2015
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The backstory on this keyboard would be fascinating. It obviously started with the MacBook. But where did the MacBook come from? What were the decisions around making and releasing that product. And when/how was it decided to bring that keyboard to the MacBook Pro? These decisions weren’t made by one person. What was the testing of this keyboard like? How did Apple not catch these issues before green lighting this keyboard mechanism for use in products? And once issues were discovered why did it take so long to course correct? For that last one I put the blame squarely on Tim Cook. He should have hauled design, engineering and operations into his office and said is want this fixed now.
Such good questions.

If this class action goes to trial (and it WON'T), we'll get the answers, like the Samsung trial.

I just don't see that happening, but I would love to hear the backstory.
 

Lalatoon

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Jul 8, 2019
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If they can prove that Apple knows about the problem years ago and still continues to use the design then Apple might loss this lawsuit.

Butterfly keyboard was supposed to be an apple innovation :)

Here is another Apple innovation, in this case its about thermal managing in Macbook Air :)


Sometimes I wonder why my Macbook Air gets too hot.. im always at +95c :(
 
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