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tdale said:
They are not as fast as a Windows machine, which surprises me. I assume conservative timings on the board, re bus speed, etc. Really only relative to gamers

Fast in what sense? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just curious. Are there any benchmarks, or any other reports out there that back this up?

Apple margins for phones, tablets and PCs are higher than everyone else. Thats maximises profits, and is clearly beneficial than the purchases who are put off by the pricing.

I asked if you can name another company that is not in it for the profits. Of course some companies will make more profits than others.


A great man, but we are still getting past the change on direction, so his passing is still relevant.

His passing is not relevant if change is tangibly happening and you're still bringing up his policies as some sort of trump card. Yes Steve Jobs had some crazy ideas. No those ideas are not relevant, because changes are being made. Using Steve Jobs is a crutch. A three year old crutch. He's dead.

No, I picked the service that I want, OSX and more integration, so I had to live with an overpriced under specced product, rMBP. I am ok with that

I don't see how you're saying anything different than what I stated here. You had the choice to pick what you wanted (or needed) and you made the choice. Now you're blaming the company? I don't get it...


The number of times other products has been mentioned as cheap crap is rubbish, I expect Apple to be better overall, but the statements often made here are way wrong when comparing an Apple device to an alternative.

It's an Apple centric forum. There's going to be bias. Regardless of the bias, my question was who said Apple is immune from issues? I don't recall.


Not sure, but the complaints over iPhones, iOS, Mac specs are common in the past, perhaps thats what he meant.

Ok that's one interpretation. The more probable one is that "once more" means that Apple "lost their way" before. And now they seem to be heading down that path again. They "lost their way" when Jobs left the first time and NEXT happened. Apple was pushed to the brink of bankruptcy.

So yes, the person I quoted was saying that Apple was dying "once more".
 
They are not as fast as a Windows machine, which surprises me. I assume conservative timings on the board, re bus speed, etc. Really only relative to gamers

Be aware he said apple products. Apple products include the 70+% (of total apple) iOS devices.
 
Apple, please give a good reason to upgrade my first generation retina macbook pro with 512GB. I used to upgrade every release but I have yet to see anything that makes me go :eek:.

Release a retina screen that perfectly scales to 1680x1050 and I'll buy another one in a heartbeat. This 900p scaling nonsense is just makes everything too big.
I've got say you've got a really good pair of eyes. To me this 900p is perfect for my 15".
 
Noooooo :( This sucks.
Ya hear that, Apple? Stop dropping support for your OSs after 1 year and lagging behind on hardware updates!
 
Fast in what sense? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just curious. Are there any benchmarks, or any other reports out there that back this up?

Google it. I did this a year ago, expecting Macs to be faster as I assumed leaner, but FPS wise, they are indeed slower



I asked if you can name another company that is not in it for the profits. Of course some companies will make more profits than others.

More profits is fine, but Apple make substantially more profits. How much of that is gouging, I dunno. Are other brands a huge amount cheaper to make, I don't think so




His passing is not relevant if change is tangibly happening and you're still bringing up his policies as some sort of trump card. Yes Steve Jobs had some crazy ideas. No those ideas are not relevant, because changes are being made. Using Steve Jobs is a crutch. A three year old crutch. He's dead.

Three years. A long time in IT for almost zero change, but which is happening now . Thats a long time, and may be part of the less sales that started this thread. I know many, like me, who upgrade the iPhone/iPad annually, I am about done with that. If that mentality exists generally, that is a possibility for the market share drop that this thread is about



I don't see how you're saying anything different than what I stated here. You had the choice to pick what you wanted (or needed) and you made the choice. Now you're blaming the company? I don't get it...

Blaming the company?? This thread is about a decrease in market share, my posts are based on the rash assumptions some make about other stuff being crap, defending Apple. Bottom line is Apple has lost popularity others have gained, my comments are mainly due to the rash defensive comments here. Perspective.




It's an Apple centric forum. There's going to be bias. Regardless of the bias, my question was who said Apple is immune from issues? I don't recall.

A key point in this thread is everything else is crap. Apple is great. Someone stated Honda Civics sell more than Ferrari. Geez thats over the top. The perception that Apple is that far ahead of quality is laughable. I expect them to be better, but a Ferrari compared to a Civic?




Ok that's one interpretation. The more probable one is that "once more" means that Apple "lost their way" before. And now they seem to be heading down that path again. They "lost their way" when Jobs left the first time and NEXT happened. Apple was pushed to the brink of bankruptcy.

So yes, the person I quoted was saying that Apple was dying "once more".

Need to ask the poster. The word dying isn't mentioned, neither is the assumption that he referred to NEXT
 
The magic word is shipments.

Market share is determined by actual sales.

Nokia shipped 400,000 N Gage phones in 2003, and sold only 5,000 of them at launch.
 
A positive post about the alternatives, thats all it is, and you need to denigrate it as its not pro Apple?

I'd denigrate it because he said that he switched to a Surface. There's no point of doing that. If you're going to switch from Apple, get some kind of PC.
 
Need to ask the poster. The word dying isn't mentioned, neither is the assumption that he referred to NEXT

So you were looking for an absolute literal mention of the word "dying"? and any obvious implication of that is irrelevant? I think you're just being obtuse so I will stop interacting with you, thanks though.
 
Doesn't really matter. Every Mac has more profit in it than 3 Lenovo PCs combined, I'm sure. So if you multiplied the Mac marketshare x 3, who would come out on top?

Unless you're a shareholder, who cares? All we consumers and developers want is that as many people use a Mac as possible. I'm sick of MS dominating the market anyway. I'd be satisfied with everyone on Windows switching to Debian even if they never go to Mac.
 
The magic word is shipments.

Market share is determined by actual sales.

Nokia shipped 400,000 N Gage phones in 2003, and sold only 5,000 of them at launch.

Very good point, but most of the products are mature, so while the shipment factor is there, but it was also there last time this stat was made, so that will balance out. Sales would be a better figure, with notes also as to what date the stat covers and what dates significant product releases occurred on.

I assume this includes tablets?
 
I cannot fathom how anyone could purchase a Chinese Communist Computer (a.k.a. Lenovo) over an Apple...

The more I read the headlines, the more I realize people these days have lost their minds...

Loving my Macbook Air and looking forward to iPhone 6!

apple is as they advertise designed in the US. Its built in the cheapest labor places they can find....with as you say "Chinese communist" parts.

Lenova is popular in the business world. What is liked at the office often becomes a home buy. Same with HP, Dell, etc.

These other vendors also have the option if anti windows...to go Linux. So that lenova if you truly hate windows is bootable dvd away from being a flavor of choice. Here we can argue the value of bsd versus Linux. But we have to factor in apple is not "pure" bsd. They apple-fy it to make up a word. Imac, mbp, macpro.....just a bit pricey to chuck say Ubuntu as main and only OS on.
 
These other vendors also have the option if anti windows...to go Linux. So that lenova if you truly hate windows is bootable dvd away from being a flavor of choice. Here we can argue the value of bsd versus Linux. But we have to factor in apple is not "pure" bsd. They apple-fy it to make up a word. Imac, mbp, macpro.....just a bit pricey to chuck say Ubuntu as main and only OS on.

Yep. If I wanted to use Linux, I wouldn't buy a Mac desktop, but maybe I'd buy a Mac laptop anyway just for the quality trackpad, keyboard, etc. The main problem for me is lack of support. Once you can't download something from apt-get, it's game over. Otherwise, something like Debian is so much nicer than Windows.
 
Unless you're a shareholder, who cares? All we consumers and developers want is that as many people use a Mac as possible. I'm sick of MS dominating the market anyway. I'd be satisfied with everyone on Windows switching to Debian even if they never go to Mac.

As a consumer why would you care?

As a developer you go where the money is. Apple is where the money is, and clearly that has nothing to do with marketshare. So...I guess the question is what exactly are you talking about?
 
I love apple to death. I have tons of their computers and laptops but I just picked up a thinkpad yoga and I am in love with this thing. IPS 400nit screen, super thin and it folds to a tablet. Backlit keyboard and its fast. Came with 256gb and its a Samsung 840 Pro so no cost cutting going on. Very happy with it. I can see why Lenovo is moving ahead as they are innovating like mad. Take a look at the helix. I have been hoping for apple to implement something of this nature for a while now. Love my 13" macbook air but love this Yoga more.
 
I'd denigrate it because he said that he switched to a Surface. There's no point of doing that. If you're going to switch from Apple, get some kind of PC.

Ok so you have a bias over a Surface? Its a laptop with a removable screen running Windows, like a PC.

This stats this thread is about I think includes tablets which makes it a very uninformative market share stat. PC's have been around an age, tablets are new so in a state of moving to, or at saturation. And as tablet only users was about only 8%, tablets should be kept separate IMHO. No, I don't have the link to the 8% it appeared about 6 months ago
 
Understandable

These figures are completely understandable to me. At the 10,000 ft. level Apple builds "consumer" products where HP and Dell cater to the business world. The business world is finally upgrading their old Windows workstations and servers. I believe that's mostly due to the improving economy and a much improved Windows experience.

There hasn't been a good reason for the consumer to upgrade a Mac in a while. When there is folks will upgrade, but don't expect sales figures to come close to PCs.

I expect to see rising PC sales for a while. There is a LOT of pent up demand out there.

Note this isn't a bad thing for Apple... They don't care about the business market or what percentage of the PC market they have. They only care about the quality and profit of their products.
 
As a consumer why would you care?

As a developer you go where the money is. Apple is where the money is, and clearly that has nothing to do with marketshare. So...I guess the question is what exactly are you talking about?

"Where the money is"? Developers don't make any money from Apple selling their PCs at high prices. They make money from lots of people using the developers' software. Totally dependent on market share. I don't make Mac applications, but I make iPhone applications, and the Mac has a halo effect to iPhone.

As a consumer who uses a Mac, I care because I want as many programs as possible to support Mac OS X, and that depends on market share. Plus I'm sick of having that one friend who uses Windows and has to use some junk like Skype to audio chat with me.
 
I love apple to death. I have tons of their computers and laptops but I just picked up a thinkpad yoga and I am in love with this thing. IPS 400nit screen, super thin and it folds to a tablet. Backlit keyboard and its fast. Came with 256gb and its a Samsung 840 Pro so no cost cutting going on. Very happy with it. I can see why Lenovo is moving ahead as they are innovating like mad. Take a look at the helix. I have been hoping for apple to implement something of this nature for a while now. Love my 13" macbook air but love this Yoga more.

Thats my point in a nutshell. Just cos a device isn't Apple doesn't make it crap. Too much defending Apple here with no interest in discussing why the share has decreased. If this stat includes tablets, perhaps the desktop/laptop Apple share actually increased? Cannot tell.

And yes I am a big Apple fan
 
Unless you're a shareholder, who cares? All we consumers and developers want is that as many people use a Mac as possible. I'm sick of MS dominating the market anyway. I'd be satisfied with everyone on Windows switching to Debian even if they never go to Mac.

Really? As I developer I want as much diversity as possible. I want to develop and sell my applications on as many platforms as possible. It's all about the software. No one really cares about the OS these days. Why do you think Apple gives it away?
 
Sorry just realized you responded to my other questions.

tdale said:
Google it. I did this a year ago, expecting Macs to be faster as I assumed leaner, but FPS wise, they are indeed slower

No. I'm not going to Google it. You said they are not as fast, so you have to provide the proof. I don't need to go searching for evidence to prove you right. You need to provide the evidence. If you can't, just say so.

More profits is fine, but Apple make substantially more profits. How much of that is gouging, I dunno. Are other brands a huge amount cheaper to make, I don't think so

Apple can only charge what the market will bear. This is economics 101. The only other explanation for their "substantially more profits" is that they've brainwashed multi-millions of people across the world. If you believe that Apple is skilled in mind control, I have a bridge to sell you. Except the bridge doesn't exist. And I'm telling you that it doesn't exist, but you're still going to buy the bridge from me.

Three years. A long time in IT for almost zero change, but which is happening now . Thats a long time, and may be part of the less sales that started this thread. I know many, like me, who upgrade the iPhone/iPad annually, I am about done with that. If that mentality exists generally, that is a possibility for the market share drop that this thread is about

You did not read the thread. Apple does not have less sales. Lenovo had more sales than Apple. There's a difference. And it's not a subtle one.

Blaming the company?? This thread is about a decrease in market share, my posts are based on the rash assumptions some make about other stuff being crap, defending Apple. Bottom line is Apple has lost popularity others have gained, my comments are mainly due to the rash defensive comments here. Perspective.

But you're wrong. Apple has not lost popularity. Apple is selling more product than they EVER have in the history of their company. Perspective is important, I agree. So how come you're not looking at it from a perspective point of view? The people who have lost perspective are the ones who claim that Apple is losing popularity.


A key point in this thread is everything else is crap. Apple is great. Someone stated Honda Civics sell more than Ferrari. Geez thats over the top. The perception that Apple is that far ahead of quality is laughable. I expect them to be better, but a Ferrari compared to a Civic?

It's a poor analogy, but you need to be able to think outside the box. Whoever said that made a horrible analogy, but his/her point was that cheaper products will always have more marketshare than more expensive ones if their quality is relatively the same. This is business 101. However, companies are in it for profit. I know the common theme around here is that Google (or any other company) doesn't care about profit and is looking out for mankind, but that's not true. Apple, Google Samsung, HTC Motorola, they're all here for profit. Period. If you price your products cheaper, you're going to have a bigger marketshare. But, the point that you're missing (or just flat out refuse to grasp) is that Apple SIMPLY cannot overcharge customers and expect them to keep buying their product. It doesn't work like that. Economics doesn't work like that. Business doesn't work like that. If you think it does, go ahead and start a business and purposely overcharge your customers and see how long you last.
 
These figures are completely understandable to me. At the 10,000 ft. level Apple builds "consumer" products where HP and Dell cater to the business world. The business world is finally upgrading their old Windows workstations and servers. I believe that's mostly due to the improving economy and a much improved Windows experience.

There hasn't been a good reason for the consumer to upgrade a Mac in a while. When there is folks will upgrade, but don't expect sales figures to come close to PCs.

I expect to see rising PC sales for a while. There is a LOT of pent up demand out there.

Note this isn't a bad thing for Apple... They don't care about the business market or what percentage of the PC market they have. They only care about the quality and profit of their products.

I work for a large company, we haven't upgraded due to Windows 8. Like many corporates we've been running XP, now we have been upgraded to 7. Our PC upgrade path remains the same irregardless of the OS. The work is not reduced by buying PCs with Windows 7, its what we have to do to upgrade our internals to Windows 7. The time to do that was large, when we rolled it out, it was an hour. Our change meant no change to the hardware sales. In fact thats probably a hindrance to the OS change, that we wouldn't want anyway
 
"Where the money is"? Developers don't make any money from Apple selling their PCs at high prices. They make money from lots of people using the developers' software. Totally dependent on market share. I don't make Mac applications, but I make iPhone applications, and the Mac has a halo effect to iPhone.

As a consumer who uses a Mac, I care because I want as many programs as possible to support Mac OS X, and that depends on market share. Plus I'm sick of having that one friend who uses Windows and has to use some junk like Skype to audio chat with me.

Developers make money on people using their software. If people buy their software it doesn't matter how much marketshare a company has.

If Google sells 25 trillion chromebooks but only 5 chromebook owners purchase Angry Birds, the developers aren't making much money.

If Apple sells 50 macbooks and 50 macbooks owners purchase Angry Birds, the developers made more money than they did on Google. Developers go where they can make money.
 
Marketshare luckily isn't reflective of quality. HP and Lenovo both churn out the cheapest crap they can, with failure rates (overheating for HPs, everything else for the Lenovos) unparalleled in the industry.

That's exactly what the Third World masses want. Primarily in Asian countries that are now industrializing like crazy (India, China), the masses are just starting to buy their family's very first personal computer or smartphone. You can bet they will be budget-conscious and tightwad, and you really can't blame them.

Apple is not going to be a market favorite for the masses. That's why the consumer masses of these developing countries will buy from the cheap dime-a-dozen local brands like Lenovo. And don't even get me started on the Chinese PC company Huawei (e.g. company founded by ex-officers of the People's Liberation Army) and known to be blacklisted by US Congress because they were caught spying on the US Government interests.
 
I want opening my computers and upgrade them to last like fridges or an oven. Ok, not so long, but a computer should last around 6-7 years after some upgrades. 10 years would be nice.

Heck, my mother still uses a 2007/2008 Toshiba laptop as a "desktop" computer (she also has a Samsung ultrabook). I'm planning upgrading it to 4GB, a SSD and perhaps a new battery or even its processor, so maybe it will last up to 10 years. After all the upgrades it would cost a fraction of the cheapest Mac laptop.

US Prices:
- RAM: ~60, DDR2 modules
- Battery: ~20, 3rd-party
- SSD (120GB): ~65, PNY XLR8
Total: 145,00

Cheapest Apple laptop:
$849 with student's discount

Ok, there are tons of other factors involved, but all of you would agree that the above upgrades would keep a pretty old computer on par with most software needs (browsing, office stuff and so on).
 
No. What you do is look for bottlenecks and see if you can eliminate them with minimal cost. Most of the time you can.

Most of the time, you can't.

Tell me how you can upgrade your processor to 2x the performance for the same number of cores?

You can't. You buy a new CPU, and with that, probably a new machine.

For example, for a gamer, the cpu will not age as much as a graphics card. A sandy bridge cpu from ~2010 is enough for nearly everything, but a graphics card from that era will be junk. There's zero point in replacing the whole machine.

Games CPU, is that even a thing? It only runs games? It has special features that shoot lasers?

You can't replace just the GPU and expect better everything, all you are going to get, it's better frame rates, and also the GPU will be bottlenecked because your CPU isn't capable of doing the AI, game logic, etc. and then make all the draw calls of your brand new Graphics Card.

Also, the memory won't be able to fill the graphics card memory in time for the frame.

The ssd may be bottlenecked, but he's still got a huge performance increase with minimal cost. Also, the drive will probably outlive his motherboard, so he'll get additional benefits down the line.

I won't argue, but still, if you are paying, let's say $200 for a brand new SSD, you are still only using $100 to $150 of it.

What's the matter of an SSD on a Core 2 Duo, yes, it will make it faster, but it won't make it a new processor, it won't make the whole system better. Yes, it's cheap, but it's better to put that money on the piggy bank and spend on a next generation computer when your PC will be obsolete.

Or even better, just buy a better internet service, if you can, it's what people really use computers for...



Also, gaming on PC, is a waste of time and money.

You get so less bang for buck than a console, you have problems, the games are made to be as heavy on GPU's as possible, for the hype, and for the GPU manufacturere's money, which is evident. Whilst on consoles, they keep going and going year after year, you'll never have the urge to update your hardware to just play a new game... But that's me, I'm 27, so...

----------

I want opening my computers and upgrade them to last like fridges or an oven. Ok, not so long, but a computer should last around 6-7 years after some upgrades. 10 years would be nice.

Heck, my mother still uses a 2007/2008 Toshiba laptop as a "desktop" computer (she also has a Samsung ultrabook). I'm planning upgrading it to 4GB, a SSD and perhaps a new battery or even its processor, so maybe it will last up to 10 years. After all the upgrades it would cost a fraction of the cheapest Mac laptop.

US Prices:
- RAM: ~60, DDR2 modules
- Battery: ~20, 3rd-party
- SSD (120GB): ~65, PNY XLR8
Total: 145,00

Cheapest Apple laptop:
$849 with student's discount

Ok, there are tons of other factors involved, but all of you would agree that the above upgrades would keep a pretty old computer on par with most software needs (browsing, office stuff and so on).

What's your Internet bandwith?

That isn't enough even for browsing with a 100Mbps bandwidth, let alone more complex tasks...

And did you get an upgraded screen, upgraded chassis, a battery that lasts for half a day? A new everything? Is the RAM even DDR3?

No.

So you wasted $145 on an old machine, and made your mom's next laptop $994 instead of $849... congrats.
 
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