Leopard Previewed

[Squire]

All of us here obviously understand the significance of this program, but does anybody else think this will be difficult to market to the "average" user.

I think it would be easy to market to people who already back up their files (or know that they should). It might be a tougher sell to that other 74%. I just think it's an amazing feature-- almost singlehandedly worth the 120 bucks to upgrade.

-Squire

 

[CellarDoor]

Autumn is ages away!! Damn it!!!

Have to admit i'm not very impressed at the moment *cough* but i'm staying optimisitic that when i read more into it and as more information comes out there will be something that grabs my attention.

I'm kinda bummed that even with Vista sneaking up that Aqua hasn't changed much.

*stays optimistic*

alright, check this out.

There are no finder windows in the entire leopard preview. EXCEPT for one spot, Time Machine. not only that, but Time machine shows brushed metal windows. This is prefab, its what the devs are getting, because Apple doesn't want to release the new look of Finder yet. Brushed metal is out, everything is going unified, but finder may take on a whole different look. Apple has surprised us with UI eccentricities before. I have high hopes for the new finder.

 

[whooleytoo]

I think Apple are tacking on too many 'modes' onto OSX for my liking. Expose, Dashboard, Front Row, and now Time Machine and Spaces; all of which are outside the normal Finder experience.

I think Expose and Spaces could work together well though, either Expose will effectively ignore Spaces (i.e. hitting F9 will show all windows in all Spaces), or Apple will add another Expose keystroke for Spaces, so you'll have (for example):

F8 - Show all windows
F9 - Show current Space windows
F10 - Show current application windows
F11 - Show desktop

It does still seem to be complicating things quite a bit.

Core Animation probably means we'll be seeing a lot more 3rd party apps with the look and feel of Front Row or Time Machine. It's could be a big differentiating factor between Mac and Windows apps, but it could also lead to very, very tacky apps coming out.

Also, many of the announcements made or hinted at were application rather than OS features. Pretty surprising too that Xcode 3 didn't make it into the WWDC keynote.

 

[Chundles]

I think Apple are tacking on too many 'modes' onto OSX for my liking. Expose, Dashboard, Front Row, and now Time Machine and Spaces; all of which are outside the normal Finder experience.

I think Expose and Spaces could work together well though, either Expose will effectively ignore Spaces (i.e. hitting F9 will show all windows in all Spaces), or Apple will add another Expose keystroke for Spaces, so you'll have (for example):

F8 - Show all windows
F9 - Show current Space windows
F10 - Show current application windows
F11 - Show desktop

It does still seem to be complicating things quite a bit.
Core Animation probably means we'll be seeing a lot more 3rd party apps with the look and feel of Front Row or Time Machine. It's could be a big differentiating factor between Mac and Windows apps, but it could also lead
to very, very tacky apps coming out.

Also, many of the announcements made or hinted at were application rather than OS features. Pretty surprising too that Xcode 3 didn't make it into the WWDC keynote.

Spaces doesn't use function keys, it uses shift+arrow to navigate the virtual desktops.

You click on the Spaces icon to show all the open windows.

 

[whooleytoo]

Spaces doesn't use function keys, it uses shift+arrow to navigate the virtual desktops.

You click on the Spaces icon to show all the open windows.

True, though I was referring to activating Expose while you have windows open in several spaces.

 

[Beligerent]

I hate to piss on parades but I have a prediction. I predict that as usual iChat 4.0 will have serious problems connecting with AOL instant messenger on Windows for video chats. I will go further and say that I bet iChat theatre wont work with it either.

 

[BGil]

Core Animation probably means we'll be seeing a lot more 3rd party apps with the look and feel of Front Row or Time Machine. It's could be a big differentiating factor between Mac and Windows apps, but it could also lead to very, very tacky apps coming out.

Avalon/WPF already does all that animation stuff. Remember, it's just Direct3D.

 

[NickPill]

Do the other developers who couldn´t attend the WWDC have any new info on when you can download OS 10.5 from the ADC site? I talked to the European ADC customer service today and they said it should be available in the next couple of days. Does anyone of you have an exact date?

 

[Sky Blue]

I hate to piss on parades but I have a prediction. I predict that as usual iChat 4.0 will have serious problems connecting with AOL instant messenger on Windows for video chats. I will go further and say that I bet iChat theatre wont work with it either.

Would you expect it to? I wouldnt.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Did someone put a gun to Jobs' head and make him use IBM?

Yeah, he originally wanted to use Intel, but IBM and someone else gave him the better sell I believe.

 

[Hattig]

Er ... you right click on the file, select properties, and then just click on the previous versions tab.

MS has actually put it where most people expect to find it; I thought they might put it on the actual right-click menu, but I honestly don't think that it's going to get used enough for folk to want to have it in their face all the time.

Oh, and MS doesn't need a separate drive for it to work. If the Apple Time Machine ( 🙄 ) really does need a separate drive, then it sounds as if Apple has probably just skinned a version control system it pulled from the open source world.

So how to you get a previous version of a file that has been deleted with Windows' previous versions? Or can you roll a whole folder and its contents back?

What if you want to undelete a file, but not affect other files in the folder? You don't want to roll back the folder because that will roll back all the files, but you can't select the file only because it has been deleted. Do you have to roll back the folder to undelete, then roll forward every other file to where they were?

Is there an option to view folder contents including previous deleted files that exist in that folder's history?

And the Apple Time Machine doesn't require an external hard drive, it is an option however which will allow you to recover from a dead hard drive. This suggests to me that it is an application-level facility, rather than a file system facility like ZFS.

Also I'm sure that the Time Machine graphical look will be altered by the time of the final release to be far more professional. At least, I hope it will be.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Will those of us with 32 bit Yonah processors not have access to 100% of leopards features?

What about G4 Mini users?

 

[Chundles]

What about G4 Mini users?

Leopard will run fine on 32bit processors, I don't know where people are getting the idea that it won't. It runs 32bit and 64bit processes side by side.

As for G4 mini owners, you guys are in the same boat as we older G4 iBook owners. Leopard will run everything on our systems but all the eye candy won't be present - but that's nothing new.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

The French have been particularly strong lately. First Landis, Now M$. What happened to the white towel? 😀 ....sorry couldn't resist.

Landis is a menonite from about an hour away from where I live (Philly, pennsylvania, USA), not france.

 

[steviem]

CoreImage runs on my iBook G4, so Core Animation will too, if you believe what is said on Apples's Leopard preview...Although when Leopard is released it will be bought with an MBP...

 

[Beligerent]

Would you expect it to? I wouldnt.

Yes I would expect iChat 4.0 to work with windows for video chatting. The ability for iChat and AIM to connect for video chatting has always been sketchy I'd like to think that we have finally solved this problem.

The new feature of iChat Theatre is cool in theory but come on, as I said I seriously doubt its ability to work with AIM

 

[balamw]

2003.

a.k.a. Windows Server 2003.

Seems a bit odd to be comparing a desktop OS expected to retail for under $129 with a $1,000 server OS. (Yes, I know you can get SBS for cheaper, but Windows Server 2003 on its own is $999.99 w/5 CALs).

B

 

[Sky Blue]

Yes I would expect iChat 4.0 to work with windows for video chatting. The ability for iChat and AIM to connect for video chatting has always been sketchy I'd like to think that we have finally solved this problem.

The new feature of iChat Theatre is cool in theory but come on, as I said I seriously doubt its ability to work with AIM

Yes, thats what I meant..normal video chatting should work, but i don't expect the backdrops/iChat Theatre/ screen sharing to work with anyone who doesn't have iChat Leopard.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Yes, thats what I meant..normal video chatting should work, but i don't expect the backdrops/iChat Theatre/ screen sharing to work with anyone who doesn't have iChat Leopard.

The backdrop seems like it's done on your end, not the other user's end, so it should work (as long as video chatting works).

 

[peharri]

The single most important of Leopard is the one most people will not notice, and whose use will be limited in the next five years. That is, 64 bits. Until Apple announced it, we had no idea what the implementation would look like or the ramifications of that design. Now we know. Now developers can start making "fat binaries" that make use of 64 bit architectures, and know what decisions they have to make. I wouldn't have done it the same way, but it's more important to have a design today even if it's conservative than no design at all.

The most interesting part for me was CoreAnimation. I'm wondering if this really is just something for crummy "transition effects", or the beginnings of a fully-fledged 3D API akin to DirectX or OpenGL, only higher level. I'm finding it hard to believe it's not intended to be the latter, and if that's the case, this may encourage a certain amount of native gaming development for Macs. It also might enable Apple to counter some of the damage done by adopting IIG for the consumer Macs, as they'll have the opportunity to optimize the APIs at a high level. OpenGL is too low level for that kind of optmization to be viable at this stage.

CoreAnimation certainly looks promising, and I'm sure even if it's not what it looks like it could be, it's going to help bring some fun to the Mac platform.

BTW, I never upgraded from Panther. I liked Jaguar, thought Panther was "ok" but in the end didn't like the feel of it as much (it was faster though, and it's still possible to get recent versions of Quicktime for it), and never saw a compelling reason to upgrade to Tiger. This is the first version of Mac OS X I've seen since Jaguar where I'm quite interested. I don't think I have the ("legal") hardware for it though.

 

[jlewis2k1]

CoreImage runs on my iBook G4, so Core Animation will too, if you believe what is said on Apples's Leopard preview...Although when Leopard is released it will be bought with an MBP...

actually, leopard isnt expected to run on non-intel machines. i know you said you are getting a MBP but just a friendly reminder.

 

[bense27]

I am very happy about the new iChat features. That desktop sharing things very cool. And they finally have tabbed browsing.

Time Machine looks very cool as well. It amazes me how that works though. Because it must have everything saved on there somewhere even after you delete. Because how else would it be able to go back in time?😕

 

[Zadillo]

actually, leopard isnt expected to run on non-intel machines. i know you said you are getting a MBP but just a friendly reminder.

Where in the world did you get this from? Leopard absolutely is expected to run on PowerPC machines as well.

You really think Apple is going to drop PPC support so quickly? Give me a break.

 

[jlewis2k1]

Where in the world did you get this from? Leopard absolutely is expected to run on PowerPC machines as well.

You really think Apple is going to drop PPC support so quickly? Give me a break.

i must of misunderstood something, but from what i recall that there wasn't going to be support for PPC Macs with Leopard. Unless, someone can correct me or find the proof about leopard.

 

[metfoo]

i must of misunderstood something, but from what i recall that there wasn't going to be support for PPC Macs with Leopard. Unless, someone can correct me or find the proof about leopard.

Apple has stated the 64bit support will be for x86 and ppc chips. The statement saying apple will drop ppc support is totaly inaccurate and the poster should be whipped with a rubber hose.