maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
regardless of his/her motives its clear that this thread shows that while there folks who have issues with 10.7 a lot of folks do not.
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Let's Stop Avoiding The Hard Truth About Lion
- Thread starter ronboutwell
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regardless of his/her motives its clear that this thread shows that while there folks who have issues with 10.7 a lot of folks do not.
I really don't understand what point those who are saying that they don't have problems or issues with Lion are trying to make. And I really also don't appreciate the insinuation that often seems to accompany these posts that 'since I don't have any problems and know how to keep my machine clean, it must be your fault'. etc
I've been using macs for twenty years and this is the first time I've felt like I might as well be using Windows. For goodness sake - I pay for a .mac/mobileme subscription, am using a Mac Os and a mac app (mail) - and it can't send emails! That's the kind of thing I've come to expect from Windows and no amount of posts telling me that actually, Lion works for me wonderfully thanks, is going to change that fact.
It also amazes me that Apple is reporting that Lion has no issues -when you go to their own support forums and see that this issue with mail is commonplace and has no known fixes.
I've retrograded to Snow Leopard and am now enjoying a system that works perfectly. The only 'variable' being Lion/Snow Leopard - I can only conclude that Lion was causing the issues (several apart from mail) - and that does not become invalid because other users have not had those issues.
I'm disappointed in Apple because up until now every upgrade had been an improvement - maybe it's because it's the first version of Lion - I hope so. My concern is that there's a shift in emphasis in the company away from making sure that things work the consumer's end. To find that there is a so far unsolved issue involving only Apple products - mail, Lion and mobileme - does make me fear for the worst.
I've been using macs for twenty years and this is the first time I've felt like I might as well be using Windows. For goodness sake - I pay for a .mac/mobileme subscription, am using a Mac Os and a mac app (mail) - and it can't send emails! That's the kind of thing I've come to expect from Windows and no amount of posts telling me that actually, Lion works for me wonderfully thanks, is going to change that fact.
It also amazes me that Apple is reporting that Lion has no issues -when you go to their own support forums and see that this issue with mail is commonplace and has no known fixes.
I've retrograded to Snow Leopard and am now enjoying a system that works perfectly. The only 'variable' being Lion/Snow Leopard - I can only conclude that Lion was causing the issues (several apart from mail) - and that does not become invalid because other users have not had those issues.
I'm disappointed in Apple because up until now every upgrade had been an improvement - maybe it's because it's the first version of Lion - I hope so. My concern is that there's a shift in emphasis in the company away from making sure that things work the consumer's end. To find that there is a so far unsolved issue involving only Apple products - mail, Lion and mobileme - does make me fear for the worst.
Unfortunately, you do not speak for me in any way. I am happy with Lion. I'm not fooling myself or whatever else. I have Lion on a 2008 Mac Pro and a mid 2010 Macbook Pro with zero problems. None. I'm in no way saying there are not problems, but they are not the horrible disaster. In a few cases where i have helped friends with Lion it was in, in those cases, a result of something pre-existing that came out when Lion was installed.
Again, YOU are unhappy. Please do not speak for me or anyone else. Yes others may have a problem it is to bad that YOU are having a problem, but go talk to Apple. Sick to death of these posts.
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I have to agree with macuserlongtime. I have had people accuse me of simply being an idiot or blaming my walls and router of having issues rather than simply acknowledge that Lion might have some issues. I have a degree in computer science and have been working in IT for 20+ years, I think I know my way around a computer. By the amount of people complaining and the similar items I would say that there are issues with Lion. Some people are luck enough that these bugs are not an issue, but some of us are having significant issues with Lion.
For all the folks with no issues, I am happy for you. However, you need to understand that we are not complaining because we want to. Apple needs to fix the problems and then we will quit complaining. Simple enough
If you are tired of the "posts" then simply quit reading and responding to them and let us that have issues discuss it. Sheesh, it isn't like we are forcing you to read them.
For all the folks with no issues, I am happy for you. However, you need to understand that we are not complaining because we want to. Apple needs to fix the problems and then we will quit complaining. Simple enough
If you are tired of the "posts" then simply quit reading and responding to them and let us that have issues discuss it. Sheesh, it isn't like we are forcing you to read them.
wikus
macrumors 68000
That tells you how much of a fail Lion has been; so much people need to actually sign up on this site JUST to share their difficulties with the OS.
I trashed the Lion installation that came with my macbook pro. I'm now running Snow Leopard and having zero issues, and on top of that, I dont have to deal with Mission Control's completely wretched execution of Expose. Forced grouped windows when viewing all of them is absolutely ridiculous for anyone who does serious multitasking. And thats a huge mac userbase seeing how many graphic designers use a mac with indesign, illustrator and photoshop... and thats one category alone.
I think I must be missing something about the purpose of forums and discussion and all the rest. This post, as far as I can tell, is about those who have been using Lion and found it disappointing.
I still don't get the point of Lion users who are having a great experience with it chiming in and saying so (and so forcefully might I suggest). I'm not disputing the fact that there are many (and we can never have the data to show the exact split between happy and disaffected users) with it.
What on earth is the point of shouting from the rooftops that ME, I, ME have no problems with it! How on earth can that lead to it improving - and how on earth does that have any bearing on the many of us who DO have many problems with it?
I still don't get the point of Lion users who are having a great experience with it chiming in and saying so (and so forcefully might I suggest). I'm not disputing the fact that there are many (and we can never have the data to show the exact split between happy and disaffected users) with it.
What on earth is the point of shouting from the rooftops that ME, I, ME have no problems with it! How on earth can that lead to it improving - and how on earth does that have any bearing on the many of us who DO have many problems with it?
Senseotech
macrumors 6502a
I honestly read maybe two pages of this thread before I'd finally had enough. Everywhere I turn, theres this loud minority of users who can't stand Lion, half of them because of a bug that the VAST majority of user's aren't experiencing or because of the new features they don't like. Heres a pro-tip, if you don't like a specific thing, DON'T USE IT!!! All the new things in Lion can easily be turned off, disabled, or just frankly ignored.
Just because YOU have some problem with it, doesn't make the whole damn OS craptacular, it likely means theres something more complicated at play than just the OS; everyone's computing environment is different, differing settings, apps, etc. To draw the conclusion that because your unique configuration being FUBAR is indicative that the whole OS is, thats self-centered, ignorant of computing in general, and just downright silly.
And to speak to personal experience, I have a late 08 macbook, early 07 MBP, and hell, even my hackintosh desktop runs Lion perfectly with not one single, solitary issue since release. In fact, Lion runs better on my hack than SL did.
Just because YOU have some problem with it, doesn't make the whole damn OS craptacular, it likely means theres something more complicated at play than just the OS; everyone's computing environment is different, differing settings, apps, etc. To draw the conclusion that because your unique configuration being FUBAR is indicative that the whole OS is, thats self-centered, ignorant of computing in general, and just downright silly.
And to speak to personal experience, I have a late 08 macbook, early 07 MBP, and hell, even my hackintosh desktop runs Lion perfectly with not one single, solitary issue since release. In fact, Lion runs better on my hack than SL did.
And to Wikus - I totally agree. I did the same thing! I've been a very happy 'lurker' - in that I've been very happy with Apple products for many years. Mostly because, even when they were unreliable, had pretty poor customer service etc (late 90's) there was an obvious trend of improvement (as far as the customer was concerned). This is the first time I've seen that trend go in reverse - and like the OP, I was tempted to signup and register to make a point heard!
QuarterSwede
macrumors G4
Here's my take bugs aside:
On a MacBook without a multi-touch trackpad it's really not all that great. I use that daily and it's seriously a chore to bounce back and forth between desktops and fullscreen apps.
I tried an 11" MacBook Air at the Apple Store the other day and Lion was fantastic. Mission Control actually makes sense when using four finger swipes, etc. I love all the peeking you can do (even in Safari!).
It's painfully obvious they designed it for the multi-touch trackpad (and rightfully so).
On a MacBook without a multi-touch trackpad it's really not all that great. I use that daily and it's seriously a chore to bounce back and forth between desktops and fullscreen apps.
I tried an 11" MacBook Air at the Apple Store the other day and Lion was fantastic. Mission Control actually makes sense when using four finger swipes, etc. I love all the peeking you can do (even in Safari!).
It's painfully obvious they designed it for the multi-touch trackpad (and rightfully so).
To Senseotech - I salute you in making my point for me! Me, yes Me, My mac works amazingly on Lion - all you monkeys and idiots and fools and oxygenwasters who find it doesn't work - you're all wrong wrong wrong.
wikus
macrumors 68000
Mission Control took away Expose's ability to show all windows at the same time without grouping them. Theres no 'off' switch for that. This alone kills my productivity and has been the case for many others. I've never went back to a previous operating system with Apple, but this time my experience with OS X (10.7) is severely hindered (especially with the finders sidebar 30 icons in grey that all look exactly the same).
There was a similar issue with Leopard when it came out. Apple dropped the folder shortcut view in List Mode when a folder was put into the dock. A lot of people complained about this and eventually it was brought back. It took about 2 or 3 revisions for Leopard before apple finally budged.
But this is something ive noticed about apple. Steve Jobs once said during his announcement of Internet Explorer shipping with all macs in the 90s in response to a crowd full of boos; '....but because we believe in choice....'
The reality is apple and steve jobs dont really care for choice. if they did you'd have a lot more options when buying and using a mac product.
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I've been a mac user for almost 12 years now. I signed up on macrumors about 3 or 4 years ago but had my account banned due to expressing my feelings too strongly about my discomfort with the way things are within apple's products and its evangelicals (read my signature).
I really cant stand the direction of where OS X is heading. This whole ipadification crap needs to stop. Apple has really forgotten about its pro users. I come from a background of using a power mac, mac pro, imacs, a couple macbooks and now own my first macbook pro. Snow Leopard is Apple's *BEST* operating system, not because it works but because they put in an honest effort into tweaking and optimizing it. But everytime apple does something, theres a LOT more effort put into iOS, iPhones and iPads. Ever since the cult of brand phenomena occurred from the mass hysteria over the iPod's success, this has really rubbed off the wrong way on steve jobs. im tired of it. where is the attention for all NORMAL mac users?
Wikus - I think the 'sad fact' (from our point of view - ie Mac users rather than ios users) is that we are now far outnumbered! I'm absolutely gobsmacked by the responses on this thread by the 'my Lion works so you're a ****** if it doens't' brigade! I can see why you were banned! What's sad about it is that for all intents and purposes, purchasing and using a Mac used to be and maybe still is, the 'intelligent' and rational choice. There doesn't seem to be too much of either of those qualities around in this thread at the moment.
I still treasure and love my current MacbookPro (now running on Snow Leopoard again) just because it does everything it is designed to do so well and flawlessly - having used computers professionally for twenty years, that's the highest praise they can get. I hope someday soon (and who knows, that may be with the next Lion update) that will happen again with the latest release. As I've never been part of a 'mac community' I guess I don't have anything to lose - I'm just pretty amused and at the same time saddened, by all this fundamentalism!
I still treasure and love my current MacbookPro (now running on Snow Leopoard again) just because it does everything it is designed to do so well and flawlessly - having used computers professionally for twenty years, that's the highest praise they can get. I hope someday soon (and who knows, that may be with the next Lion update) that will happen again with the latest release. As I've never been part of a 'mac community' I guess I don't have anything to lose - I'm just pretty amused and at the same time saddened, by all this fundamentalism!
Senseotech
macrumors 6502a
I find it hilarious that you're doing exactly what you complain about. "I have problems, so it HAS to be the OS. Its Apple's fault because it couldn't do the impossible and make it work for EVERYONE EVERYWHERE 100% of the time, so screw them for releasing a product that for 95%+ works perfectly. How dare they not cater to me and my unique setup and fix the bugs instantly!!!"
There are at least 2 reasons to complain about Lion.
One is to of course vent and find out if others agree, disagree, or are having the same problem.
The other is to send a message to Apple. Of course I hope anyone who has a complaint about Lion has sent a message directly to Apple at http://www.apple.com/feedback/, but since I'm sure Apple monitors other Mac forums beside their own, stating it here also gets the message to Apple about what we want changed and how we want it changed.
For example, many, including myself, prefer the way SL handled Spaces and Expose. While many others prefer Mission Control. Hopefully Apple now knows that they NEED to provide a way that we can choose which me want to use.
Overall, Apple needs to return all the lost functionality of SL like Spaces, Expose, Full-Screen w/ 2 monitors, "Save As...", and "Do you want to save?", while also giving us the option of turning off new features that some of us don't want like Resume, Versions or AutoSave.
One is to of course vent and find out if others agree, disagree, or are having the same problem.
The other is to send a message to Apple. Of course I hope anyone who has a complaint about Lion has sent a message directly to Apple at http://www.apple.com/feedback/, but since I'm sure Apple monitors other Mac forums beside their own, stating it here also gets the message to Apple about what we want changed and how we want it changed.
For example, many, including myself, prefer the way SL handled Spaces and Expose. While many others prefer Mission Control. Hopefully Apple now knows that they NEED to provide a way that we can choose which me want to use.
Overall, Apple needs to return all the lost functionality of SL like Spaces, Expose, Full-Screen w/ 2 monitors, "Save As...", and "Do you want to save?", while also giving us the option of turning off new features that some of us don't want like Resume, Versions or AutoSave.
Senseotech,
My issue isn't a complicated one - what isn't working is 100% Apple - I have a mobileme account that I'm paying for every year, an Apple computer running the latest Apple Operating system - and it won't send emails - using Apple's 'Mail' application. Where else can you go with that - given that all this worked before I 'upgraded' to Lion and now that it works perfectly since I 'downgraded' to Snow Leopard (and if you look on the Apple forums - there are plenty of others with this same experience)? if you prefer to believe that I am a totally isolated cretin please continue. All in all, this issue is pretty basic in my book considering I'm paying the same company for all the services they can't realistically complain that the issue lies elsewhere .
My issue isn't a complicated one - what isn't working is 100% Apple - I have a mobileme account that I'm paying for every year, an Apple computer running the latest Apple Operating system - and it won't send emails - using Apple's 'Mail' application. Where else can you go with that - given that all this worked before I 'upgraded' to Lion and now that it works perfectly since I 'downgraded' to Snow Leopard (and if you look on the Apple forums - there are plenty of others with this same experience)? if you prefer to believe that I am a totally isolated cretin please continue. All in all, this issue is pretty basic in my book considering I'm paying the same company for all the services they can't realistically complain that the issue lies elsewhere .
They like to exaggerate a lot in here, over things like color choices, or lack thereof. Nothing is ever as bad as it sounds.
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No, you fruit loops scare them away by flipping out at any opinion different than yours by a split hair.
wikus
macrumors 68000
OS X having bugs and removed functions from Expose in SL are not opinions, they are facts. You seem to have trouble comprehending reality.
Who are you calling a fruit loop?
mrsir2009
macrumors 604
Yeah, they're facts. But not everyone has the bugs (I haven't noticed a single bug in Lion) and some people don't mind, or even like the changes (Mission control, launchpad).
ggg05a
macrumors regular
I'd like to throw out there those who keep saying
"herp derp, I have no issues with Lion, therefore anyone who does must be wrong, and it must be user error. Wipe and re-install"
are just trolling, looking for a fight.
To deny there are issues with Lion is asinine. To assert that Lion is the worst OS ever, and blah blah blah is equally as asinine.
Lets just hope 10.7.2 fixes all the issues and we can get back to SL speeds with Lion.
"herp derp, I have no issues with Lion, therefore anyone who does must be wrong, and it must be user error. Wipe and re-install"
are just trolling, looking for a fight.
To deny there are issues with Lion is asinine. To assert that Lion is the worst OS ever, and blah blah blah is equally as asinine.
Lets just hope 10.7.2 fixes all the issues and we can get back to SL speeds with Lion.
Looking everywhere that's NOT a bitchforum, MOST people do like it. This is a concentrated bubble where these people think they'd be great at running every part of Apple and putting out perfect things. Humans like these ARE perfect and all.
See above: every time someone disagrees and has no issues, they must suck. Thanks for proving my point, asswipe.
yojitani
macrumors 68000
I don't like some of the features and the reduced functionality of Lion (that seems to be Apple's MO these days tho), but I've found that it works much better after a clean install. I had to replace my HD ('cause I've still got one of those computers that open up 🙂) recently and decided to try a clean install this time. The wifi issue is a little better, Preview doesn't suck up quite so much power, and my battery life is better (but that's probably because of the new drive). iCal is still the worst looking calendar I've seen for awhile and addressbook is equally as ugly, lauchpad is still there, mission control is unhelpful, the desktops idea is cumbersome, but I'll live with it....
I have to say though, at the moment I don't look at Apple's computers and want to upgrade anymore. Not sure what I want to do, but my biggest complaint is the lack of user replaceable parts. Blocking access to those parts and forcing users to take their mac to a 'specialist' is like a doctor recommending surgery to take clip long nails....
ooops. ranted a bit there. 😀
I have to say though, at the moment I don't look at Apple's computers and want to upgrade anymore. Not sure what I want to do, but my biggest complaint is the lack of user replaceable parts. Blocking access to those parts and forcing users to take their mac to a 'specialist' is like a doctor recommending surgery to take clip long nails....
ooops. ranted a bit there. 😀
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I finally decided today that I am going to downgrade back to Snow Leopard on my machine after using Lion for about a month now.
Hopefully by tomorrow night I will be posting from Snow Leopard, I just need to find my recovery CD which is laying somewhere in the house.
Hopefully by tomorrow night I will be posting from Snow Leopard, I just need to find my recovery CD which is laying somewhere in the house.