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Let's Stop Avoiding The Hard Truth About Lion

I really do not know what you are talking about. Lion is fine for me and for most of the other Mac users..
The real problem here is that among the things Apple needs to improve in their OS, one can't really be postponed anymore, and namely is the FileSystem update. They really should think a bit forward and move away from the current outdated (hence very well upgraded during the last 10 years) HFS, to something innovative.

And this is something that goes way deeper than what the normal end-user normally is worried of... I know that you are so disappointed because the GUI is not as you wish it could have been, but if you know a bit about the OS, you should be able to modify it and customize it as you wish.

The general thinking about Apple-fans sometimes is really annoying.. Because I can't understand why they stick to the appearance of the things without trying to dig more in depth.
This is due mainly to the approach Apple had in its history with the users, so that the users are more keen in thinking about "whoa I really with mother Apple will provide me with a crazy multitouch liquid metal iPhone 7" than real inner changes in the way the OS works.

You should spend a couple of years working with Fedora or other Linux distributions to understand what's the point of all the progress and evolution in this world...
 
wpotere said:
Actually it is you that are picking the fight because you felt the need to come in to a thread that is clearly about what is wrong with Lion and you brought your Apple pom poms and started posting.

Nobody is saying that the OS totally sucks, but we are saying that there are some serious bugs that need to be resolved and that are hindering some of us from being productive.
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I'll be man enough to say it: Lion sucks. (*for business users)

Let me give you one reason for me why it is absolutely unusable.

When using finder connected to a windows work environment with shared folders, it simply is borked. Takes about 1-2 minutes to connect and when it does connect to the folder, then another 1-2 minutes to browse the folders within those folders.

I use a network scan folder that is a shared drive on our SBS server. This folder stores the documents that are scanned from our CS-5050 Kyocera. We then utilize these PDF's to upload to finance sites securely, by simply browsing to that folder- grabbing the document- and uploading it. This process takes about 10 seconds to complete in SL, and about infinity and beyond in Lion.

I can grab all of these documents using iPad (again any WebDAV app) like Readdle, Goodreader, PDFPRO etc. Works wonders on any machine remotely as well, just connecting to my secure folder via the internet as well.

This is not rocket science folks, SMB, WebDAV, file sharing and the like have been around for a long time- so tell me why this simply did not work on Lion. Tried 3 different computers on the same network (1 iMac, 1 MBP, 1 MBA... same result.)

So, all of my employees were put back on SL as was my MBA.

Filed bug reports, and asked for help on the apple support boards; but many apparently experienced the same or did not utilize Lion in such a "unique" way as we do.

So, yeah it sucks *in it's current form* for me "just a business user"
 
cmChimera said:
Well it's only been out for a few months and we're on the verge of its second point update bringing not only bug fixes but actual new features in response to complaints. I think Apple has done/is doing a good job with the OS so far.
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Happy for you... However, it doesn't run worth a crap on my computers (read multiples). My hopes of this second update is that it will actually fix my problems but IMHO it is taking way to long and the main product was not tested well enough before release.
 
I learnt my lesson as an early adopter of 10.5. Why punish yourself learning the features and dealing with the compatibility problems of a new OS? It's ridiculous. You take a rock solid OS and replace it with a beta.
 
Had to go back to SL. Couldn't stand the +50% loss in battery life. Easily got 7 hours under SL on my 2010 MBA but under Lion, 3 hours seemed overwhelming.
 
Hellhammer said:
Had to go back to SL. Couldn't stand the +50% loss in battery life. Easily got 7 hours under SL on my 2010 MBA but under Lion, 3 hours seemed overwhelming.
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Watch out! You will soon be told you have no clue what you are talking about and that you have router issues rather than battery issues! :p
 
I have Lion running fairly well on my older Macbook. I think SL was a little faster, I have 4GB.

My main issues are: Wireless drops, a few more beach balls than normal and I have had some Magic Mouse issues (right click not working all of a sudden).

My wife has a 2011 MBP 15" and I have not upgraded that one yet.

The wireless drops are the most annoying. One minute you're online, then a page won't load and you glance up and see the "!" in the wi-fi icon. Frustrating as hell.
 
The one thing i dont understand is why change the save function such as save as that worked well for 30 years that took like 2 clicks now its like 4 to do the same thing and people praising the new way saying its better. but oh well they may give us a choice if enough people complain lol
 
ljonesj said:
The one thing i dont understand is why change the save function such as save as that worked well for 30 years
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Because they're trying to implement a conceptually superior solution. The reason the old document model has worked well (more or less – for people like us) is not because it's such a fantastic idea, but because we've been using it for 30 years. We've just arranged ourselves with it. But the simple fact is that it requires a fairly complex mental model and there are lots of ways to shoot yourself in the foot, if you, for example, accidentally press ⌘S instead of ⇧⌘S.

We can certainly argue about the details of Apple's implementation in Lion. I would agree that there are still improvements to be made. But conceptually, it's very straightforward now. What you see is what you get. Whatever document is open is always in the state it is displayed at (plus, you do always have the option to go back in time). And if you need to create a new file based on an existing one, you duplicate the original.

If you're an advanced user, which I'll just assume you are, I would suggest creating a Keyboard Shortcut for the Duplicate function, e.g. ⌃⌥⌘D. "Save as" then becomes ⌃⌥⌘D + ⌘S, or even just ⌃⌥⌘D. After all, Autosave will protect you from losing any data, so there might not even be a need to give the document a name before closing it, at which point Lion will automatically ask you to do so.
 
Some have a good experience with Lion and some others do not, why ??

Just some thoughts.......

1. What did you do to your computer to mess up Lion ?

2. What very old programs that you installed on your system, that may not work with Lion ?

3. What hardware did you install that might have messed up Lion ?

4. Did you do a clean install of Lion or an update only that might have messed up Lion ?

5. How long have has it been since you did a full clean re-install of the old OS before you updated to Lion ?

6. Are you the type that can not learn some thing new, gets frustrated easly and is the reason you hate Lion ?

7. Do some of you have enough main memory other than 2 GB or maybe you need 8 GB

Now, hurry up here to jump on me for even suggesting these questions :p
 
Do tell.

Quote "They really should think a bit forward and move away from the current outdated (hence very well upgraded during the last 10 years) HFS, to something innovative"

Do tell. What's outdated about the filesystem?
 
I guess its just me but the new way seems to make more of a mess for me than the old way as i got so use to the old and i keep it straight and for me thats the reason i dont use a keyboard shortcut for the saving bit as it can mess you up if you do hit the wrong key set shortcut.
 
tkermit said:
Because they're trying to implement a conceptually superior solution. The reason the old document model has worked well (more or less – for people like us) is not because it's such a fantastic idea, but because we've been using it for 30 years. We've just arranged ourselves with it. But the simple fact is that it requires a fairly complex mental model and there are lots of ways to shoot yourself in the foot, if you, for example, accidentally press ⌘S instead of ⇧⌘S.

We can certainly argue about the details of Apple's implementation in Lion. I would agree that there are still improvements to be made. But conceptually, it's very straightforward now. What you see is what you get. Whatever document is open is always in the state it is displayed at (plus, you do always have the option to go back in time). And if you need to create a new file based on an existing one, you duplicate the original.

If you're an advanced user, which I'll just assume you are, I would suggest creating a Keyboard Shortcut for the Duplicate function, e.g. ⌃⌥⌘D. "Save as" then becomes ⌃⌥⌘D + ⌘S, or even just ⌃⌥⌘D. After all, Autosave will protect you from losing any data, so there might not even be a need to give the document a name before closing it, at which point Lion will automatically ask you to do so.
Click to expand...

An option in system preferences would solve this.

Apple doesnt believe in choice though.
 
SR45 said:
Some have a good experience with Lion and some others do not, why ??

Just some thoughts.......

1. What did you do to your computer to mess up Lion ?

2. What very old programs that you installed on your system, that may not work with Lion ?

3. What hardware did you install that might have messed up Lion ?

4. Did you do a clean install of Lion or an update only that might have messed up Lion ?

5. How long have has it been since you did a full clean re-install of the old OS before you updated to Lion ?

6. Are you the type that can not learn some thing new, gets frustrated easly and is the reason you hate Lion ?

7. Do some of you have enough main memory other than 2 GB or maybe you need 8 GB

Now, hurry up here to jump on me for even suggesting these questions :p
Click to expand...

This made me laugh. You left off "did you buy a new mac with Lion already installed", that way you don't even have the SL choice.
 
tkermit said:
Because they're trying to implement a conceptually superior solution. The reason the old document model has worked well (more or less – for people like us) is not because it's such a fantastic idea, but because we've been using it for 30 years. We've just arranged ourselves with it. But the simple fact is that it requires a fairly complex mental model and there are lots of ways to shoot yourself in the foot, if you, for example, accidentally press ⌘S instead of ⇧⌘S.

We can certainly argue about the details of Apple's implementation in Lion. I would agree that there are still improvements to be made. But conceptually, it's very straightforward now. What you see is what you get. Whatever document is open is always in the state it is displayed at (plus, you do always have the option to go back in time). And if you need to create a new file based on an existing one, you duplicate the original.

If you're an advanced user, which I'll just assume you are, I would suggest creating a Keyboard Shortcut for the Duplicate function, e.g. ⌃⌥⌘D. "Save as" then becomes ⌃⌥⌘D + ⌘S, or even just ⌃⌥⌘D. After all, Autosave will protect you from losing any data, so there might not even be a need to give the document a name before closing it, at which point Lion will automatically ask you to do so.
Click to expand...
Yes, yes and yes. This is exactly why I love Versions and Resume.
 
See this is what i was trying to talk about, even the name of this forum is obvious. we are talking about the things we don't like, or the problems we are having, or stuff we would like to see fixed. and we get these trollers (nothing personal) who come here to spark the fight stating blagh blagh blagh lion is fine and works well for me :) and you guys are stupid for hating it. Well i am sorry all of you are still affected by the reality distortion field and believe that apple only makes fluffy bunnies that can never be wrong

im sorry for this rant and if it offends any lion lovers but i just want to get it out there.

i dont hate lion and i want to like it but there is just so much wrong with it at this moment and time. i am planning on re installing it it on a separate partition for now and see how it goes.

if some of us want to stick with snow leopard then leave us be. its our choice, we believe in choice like apple used to
 
blackomega31 said:
See this is what i was trying to talk about, even the name of this forum is obvious. we are talking about the things we don't like, or the problems we are having, or stuff we would like to see fixed. and we get these trollers (nothing personal) who come here to spark the fight stating blagh blagh blagh lion is fine and works well for me and you guys are stupid for hating it.
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Which post are you talking about? :confused:
 
tkermit said:
Because they're trying to implement a conceptually superior solution. ...
Click to expand...

I disagree. How can it be a "conceptually superior solution" when they remove functionality. "Save As..." gave an easy way to change the name, move the file to a new location, or change the file type all in one dialog box.
 
WSR said:
I disagree. How can it be a "conceptually superior solution" when they remove functionality. "Save As..." gave an easy way to change the name, move the file to a new location, or change the file type all in one dialog box.
Click to expand...

Apple is just went out and broke the 'if its not broken, dont fix it' rule.
 
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