LG's New UltraFine 5K Display Limited to 4K Resolution When Used With 2018 iPad Pro

[deconstruct60]

When I see an article like this, i get confused. Very, very confused.

The article should be titled, "Surprise! This monitor even works with an ipad. (But why would you want to do that?)"

I happen to know that graphics cards that can handle 5k are a bit bigger and heavier than than an ipad....and they have active cooling...and higher power requirements.

If going to use the iPad Pro to game on the 5K screen that would be an issue.

If primarily putting up Video and 2D images then this isn't the issue you are making it out to be. Excel , powerpoint , Photo grading/viewing , etc. Everything possible on a computer isn't 3D objects rendering at max realism.

Your average 4-8K doesn't have huge active coolers on it either.

Display photos on your 4k tv? Okay, that makes sense. But use an ipad w/expensive monitor for your photo editing workflow? Incinuating the possibility should be illegal!

Not just photo editing. Can be in the field and trying to show 2-3 people what the shots look like. You can huddle everyone around the iPad's screen or have everyone look at the 27' 5K screen. The latter use case is going to work better. It is not as portable but it works better at 'sharing visuals'.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

www.displayport.org states that technically, USB-C can now support 5K resolution.

https://www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c/


DisplayPort leverages the Alternate Mode Functional Extension of the USB Type-C interface, and shares similar electrical characteristics with USB 3.1, allowing use of common system elements.

• 
  
  
  • Video, SuperSpeed USB and power, all on one connector
  • 4K @60Hz 24-bit color (without compression) with simultaneous USB 3.1
  • 5K (5120 x 2880) display support without compression with simultaneous USB 2.0
  • Support for BT.2020 color space, HDR, and HDCP 2.2
  • 8K x 4K display support with use of 4:2:0 pixel structure (good) or VESA Display Stream Compression (better)
  • High-end multichannel audio support
  • Backward compatible with VGA, DVI, and HDMI 2.0 with CEC using plug adapters or adapter cables
  • Extensible packet-based data structure

It's just that the 2018 iPad Pro models or the 12" MacBooks can't do it.

However, simultaneous 5K video plus USB support over USB-C is limited to USB 2.0. To get simultaneous 5K + USB 3, you need to use Thunderbolt.



The previous 5K display is Thunderbolt 3 only. It didn't work at all with the iPad Pro. The previous 4K display is USB-C. The new 5K display accepts both Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C inputs.

All these complaints that you have to squash when just a year ago it was a pipe dream.

 

[indiekiduk]

I gather this is still only a DisplayPort 1.2 monitor which is why it is limited to 4k@60Hz? And when operating in thunderbolt mode it is doing Multi-Stream Transport.

It was weird this monitor was not on sale for a while, maybe Apple's contract with LG expired and they had to renew it, or maybe Apple's own monitor failed and they decided to just keep selling this LG.

 

[Nütztjanix]

You can get better or equivalent or good enough for over 50% cheaper

"Better or equivalent" - where? Honest question …

 

[deconstruct60]

5k @ 60Hz needs either two DisplayPort 1.2a cables (8 lanes) in 'MST' mode (where each cable drives half of the screen) ...or a single DisplayPort 1.4 cable (4 lanes - faster speed), but in the latter case the computer's GPU,
....
USB-C alt mode (i.e. a non-TB display and/or a non-TB computer connected via USB) simply works by 'switching' some of its 4 high-speed data wires to carry raw DP signals, and has always supported DisplayPort 1.4 on paper, but that doesn't mean that all USB-C controllers support it - none of teh early implementations did, the Intel controllers in pre-2018 Macs don't, and its irrelevant to the 13" MBP and Air because their Intel iGPUs don't.

The Intel GPUs didn't support DPv1.4 . If don't have a source GPU with v1.4 then having on the stuff downstream won't see much of a demand. there are some circles where lots of folks imagine all laptops have discrete GPUS, but a large fraction of the Mac Laptop line does not have them. Same is true for the rest of the system implementors.

The DisplayPort Alt mode doesn't flow through the USB controllers. Alternative mode for non Thunderbolt contexts usually has a switch. ( even Thunderbolt has tended to to have some external infrastructure, although that has gone down over time. )

 

[Zdigital2015]

There's always a catch...

Yes, it’s called life...

 

[burgman]

Beat me to it.

I’m so disappointed. 4K is not enough K. I need more K!

Yeah low potassium can be a problem

 

[RossGGG]

Comments about the design choices with this monitor aside, I am a little tickled that the promotional material actually features Autodesk Maya ^_^

 

[konqerror]

Not really considering the cost when a $35 to $55 Raspberry Pi 4 can output dual 4K displays and it runs full desktop Linux. 8K is the new benchmark anyhow.

Here's a demo with 4K + 1080p.

It actually doesn't work well, it's just marketing. It barely handles 1080 desktops as is, you get a bit of lag. The whole mess overheats too then throttles down. Dual 4K is limited to 30 FPS which is unusable for desktops.

I understand why, these SOCs were originally made for 4K streaming sticks which use hardware to output 4K video, but actually draw simple UI overlays in 1080 or 720 and upscale.

 

[Glockworkorange]

I'm always amazed that this day and age we still get ugly products like this one. If Apple collaborated with LG on the monitor why couldn't they help them with design? The whole thing is super ugly, if it wasn't I could see myself buying one but this is not gonna be on my desk.
Sad to see companies still ignoring the most basic thing such as design. Design is what sells - is it really hard to understand that? Especially if you are aiming for Apple customers.

I have the first one. I don’t find it that ugly in person. It’s not symmetrical, true, but you also don’t notice it when in use.

 

[EugW]

5k @ 60Hz needs either two DisplayPort 1.2a cables (8 lanes) in 'MST' mode (where each cable drives half of the screen) ...or a single DisplayPort 1.4 cable (4 lanes - faster speed), but in the latter case the computer's GPU, monitor and the USB-C/TB controller all need to support DisplayPort 1.4 and single-stream 5k.

Until last year, Thunderbolt controllers didn't support DisplayPort 1.4 at all, but since Thunderbolt has a higher bandwidth and multiplexes DisplayPort and PCIe data into a single stream that can use all of the wires in a USB-C cable, it could fit two 'virtual' DisplayPort 1.2 streams on a single cable and drive a 5k display in MST mode.

USB-C alt mode (i.e. a non-TB display and/or a non-TB computer connected via USB) simply works by 'switching' some of its 4 high-speed data wires to carry raw DP signals, and has always supported DisplayPort 1.4 on paper, but that doesn't mean that all USB-C controllers support it - none of teh early implementations did, the Intel controllers in pre-2018 Macs don't, and its irrelevant to the 13" MBP and Air because their Intel iGPUs don't.

Maybe the iPad Pro can output 5k DisplayPort 1.4 over USB-C, maybe it can't, but the odds are that the LG display only implements it via 2xDP1.2-over-Thunderbolt, because most of the Macs out there can't do DP.1.4.

(Presumably Apple's new $1k XDR display stand can use DP1.4, at least over Thunderbolt, but you need the optional $5k display for that).

I choose to take the optimistic view that the 2019 revamp of the 5K UltraFine is to add DP Alt Mode with DP 1.4a support, thereby allowing it to support USB-C 5K input as well. For the previous model 5K UltraFine, it didn't support non-TB USB-C input at all, not even at 4K.

Furthermore, I'm assuming the current iPad Pro is DP 1.2, whereas there is a possibility the new iPad Pro 2019 could be DP 1.4a. Cuz the only Apple product that would actually need DP 1.4a is the iPad Pro. All the current Macs that support 5K already support it through Thunderbolt 3.

MacBook Air: TB3
MacBook Pro: TB3
iMac: TB3
iMac Pro: TB3
Mac Pro: TB3
Mac mini: TB3
iPad Pro: USB-C
Other iPads: Lightning

I don't see the 2019 iPad Pro getting TB3, but I could see it getting an updated version of USB-C with DP 1.4a support, to go along with the new 2019 iPadOS, the new 2019 Adobe Photoshop, and the new 2019 LG UltraFine 5K, in full 5K glory.

 

[djlythium]

No. It's a 27" 5K monitor.

I know you're trying very hard to diss this monitor, but you've failed miserably with your specific argument here.

Heh. It’s actually not if your looking to use one with an iPP.

Nice try yourself.

 

[ImaxGuy]

Ugly bezels. Looks like cheap plastic casing, too.

Yes, bezels are fugly and the casing is plastic, but the 1st gen was very sturdy. I just look at what's on the display when I'm using it and the image if fabulous.

 

[ksec]

5k @ 60Hz needs either two DisplayPort 1.2a cables (8 lanes) in 'MST' mode (where each cable drives half of the screen) ...or a single DisplayPort 1.4 cable (4 lanes - faster speed), but in the latter case the computer's GPU, monitor and the USB-C/TB controller all need to support DisplayPort 1.4 and single-stream 5k.

Until last year, Thunderbolt controllers didn't support DisplayPort 1.4 at all, but since Thunderbolt has a higher bandwidth and multiplexes DisplayPort and PCIe data into a single stream that can use all of the wires in a USB-C cable, it could fit two 'virtual' DisplayPort 1.2 streams on a single cable and drive a 5k display in MST mode.

USB-C alt mode (i.e. a non-TB display and/or a non-TB computer connected via USB) simply works by 'switching' some of its 4 high-speed data wires to carry raw DP signals, and has always supported DisplayPort 1.4 on paper, but that doesn't mean that all USB-C controllers support it - none of teh early implementations did, the Intel controllers in pre-2018 Macs don't, and its irrelevant to the 13" MBP and Air because their Intel iGPUs don't.

Maybe the iPad Pro can output 5k DisplayPort 1.4 over USB-C, maybe it can't, but the odds are that the LG display only implements it via 2xDP1.2-over-Thunderbolt, because most of the Macs out there can't do DP.1.4.

(Presumably Apple's new $1k XDR display stand can use DP1.4, at least over Thunderbolt, but you need the optional $5k display for that).




The previous version of the 4k was USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode only, and would work with an iPad or 12: MB, while the previous 5k was Thunderbolt only and would only work with a MBP or Air. Pre-2018, unlike the 'host' ports on computers, the socket on a peripheral device could only be one or the other - but the latest Thunderbolt controllers fixed that.

Both of the revised displays now have dual mode inputs that can work in either Thunderbolt or USB-C Alt Mode.

Thank You, 4 Page into the thread and first page on USB-C I was already pissed at some of the non sense coming out.

USB-C is the connector, nothing to do with the Cable and version of USB Spec itself. Which is the reason people have been calling for USB-C support on iPhone have literally zero understanding about USB-C.

iPad Pro only support USB 3.1 spec, and that specification does not allow DisplayPort 1.4 in Alt mode. Only the USB 3.2 does it, and it is not a requirement either.

We can only hope Apple tries to shape USB4 requirement and specification. At least than there is a possibility of iPhone switching over to using USB-C connector. ( It will likely still have MFi though which means you will have to buy specific USB4 cable to charge your iPhone )

 

[Freida]

I have the first one. I don’t find it that ugly in person. It’s not symmetrical, true, but you also don’t notice it when in use.

is it worth the price? Performance wise?

 

[sakabaro]

Can you finally plug a PC to it?

 

[kingspointer]

Great looking monitor, going to get 2 to avoid scaling issue. pumped about it.

LG yesterday released a new version of its UltraFine 5K Display with USB-C connectivity, allowing it to be used with 2018 iPad Pro models, but Apple has since confirmed that the iPad Pro cannot take advantage of the full 5K resolution.

In a new support document, Apple says the UltraFine 5K is limited to a 4K resolution of 3,840×2,160 at 60Hz when connected to 2018 iPad Pro models via USB-C. The full 5K resolution requires a 2016 or newer MacBook Pro, a 2018 or newer MacBook Air, a 2017 or newer iMac or iMac Pro, or a 2018 Mac mini.

The new UltraFine 5K Display is available to order for $1,299.95 on Apple.com. Like the previous model, it also supports Thunderbolt 3, with up to 94W of power for pass-through charging of any Mac or iPad connected to the display.

The new display has the model number 27MD5KL-B.

Article Link: LG's New UltraFine 5K Display Limited to 4K Resolution When Used With 2018 iPad Pro

 

[DrJohnnyN]

Yes, bezels are fugly and the casing is plastic, but the 1st gen was very sturdy. I just look at what's on the display when I'm using it and the image if fabulous.

No doubt the image on the screen is great but, for me, the aesthetics of the monitor matter just as much as the image itself.

 

[GuruZac]

Not really considering the cost when a $35 to $55 Raspberry Pi 4 can output dual 4K displays and it runs full desktop Linux. 8K is the new benchmark anyhow.

Here's a demo with 4K + 1080p.

Can I run my iPadOS apps on the Raspberry Pi 4 kit? No. Again, it is nice that I can use my iPad to run a 4K monitor if I want to. The need for a full desk top is disappearing quickly for my use. The iPad Pro is becoming a nearly singular all purpose device in my favorite ecosystem. I can draw with it, take notes on it, watch videos and movies, take photos with it, FaceTime with it, play games on it, and the list continues to grow.

 

[drpaul50]

I have a question about 4k, 5k, and 8k. At what point can your eye not perceive any difference? There has to a point at which the human eye can no longer notice the change.

 

[Glockworkorange]

is it worth the price? Performance wise?

I have the original 5K and the original 4K UltraFines.

My 5K was a refurb from Adorama or B&H (I forget which) and I paid $950.00 for it. It’s worth $950.00, for sure.

Would I pay $1,300.00? Probably not. I was lucky in that I found a good deal.

I’m not a photo or video editor; I’m an attorney and I am staring at text and writing all day, so I really appreciate the clarity of the 5 (and 4) K. Does that count as performance? Perhaps not, but that’s my use case.

I did pay full sticker price for the 4K and it’s been worth every penny.

So, if anyone is interested in the 5K’s—-they are great. It’s the same thing as looking at a 5K iMac. Exactly the same.

They’re actually a little better, as if you have a MBP from 2018 and up opened (i.e., not clamshell) the 5K (and 4K) will show TrueTone. 5K iMac doesn’t offer it. I don’t really care about that, but I know some do.

BUT—I’d hunt a refurb down. I’ve had no problems with mine for close to two years. Here’s one on Amazon. Here’s another one on New Egg.

These are $50 more than I paid, but sub $1,000.00.

 

[EugW]

For those wondering why anyone would want to run an external high-rez screen on an iPad, it should be noted that in terms of raw speed, even the 2018 iPad Pro is faster than my 2017 quad-core Retina 5K iMac i5.

Once iOS 13 lands, along with the appropriate 3rd party software, for some heavy users there will be pretty good reason to want to run such a screen on an iPad.

In fact, LumaFusion was just updated to support external screens.

 

[theorist9]

This is interesting because it means Apple is further moving towards to option of using an iPad as one's only computer, by at least giving it the hardware capability to also function as a desktop replacement. But I wonder if routinely driving a monitor at 4K will reduce an iPad's lifespan, since this probably means its video chip will be continuously running at a high level, which in turn may mean it will be continuously running hot.

 

[umbilical]

I don't care about the bezels, actually I like the design, looks professional.
my only complain is overpriced, I refuse to pay that price, $699 it would be enough.

 

[Spectrum]

A related aside: if you connect a 2018 Mac Mini to a 4K monitor you're going to see a performance hit. Skipping mouse cursor, slow page scrolling, etc. I have a 4K monitor on a Mac Mini and at full resolution the Mini is dropped to 4fps. I can't imagine how much slower it would be on 5K.

I had to add an external graphics card to use the monitor at full resolution.

I wasn't surprised to need an external graphics card but people should not expect Apple's marketing-speak to translate to real-world performance.

Upgrade you RAM. I have 2018 mini and it is rendering 5K plus 4K resolutin on 27 inch plus 24 inch monitors. 32GB RAM.