Live Coverage of iPhone SDK Roadmap Event

[asdavis10]

Wait. So adding a Stocks, Email, Maps, Notes, and Weather widgets are the equivalent to paying for Leopard or Vista? Please... This is firmware update, nothing more. Also, what kind of "power" are you talking about? Its a portable media player. Either way, I don't care what kind of "power" the iPod touch has in comparison to other mobile devices, those devices aren't charging $20 a pop for their firmware updates.

Yes, we all know how much "time" it takes or whatever you guys are saying for these updates to be worth $20, but it doesn't change the fact that other companies have been giving free FIRMWARE updates for ever. For example, the original Zune got a complete overhaul in interface and some new features for free. Sony added Skype to its PSP. The Xbox/PS3/Wii get new features added all the time. What is the difference?

Maybe Im not understanding something, but I looked on Google for why they supposedly have to charge for these updates and found nothing. And why can Sony or Microsoft give these updates for free, but Apple feel the need to CHARGE us... twice??? Why ... Why???

I like to tell people this all the time, but Apple is not your average company. They are in many ways the standard that other companies are judged. Just look at Fortunes list of "Top 20 Most Admired Companies". There are 2 things in life that you pay a premium for. One is convenience and the other is quality. And Apple offers superior quality in all its products than their competitors. The Zune should never be compared to the iPod Touch. The Touch is so far ahead of the Zune its not even funny. Apple can charge what they want because for every person that complains about the prices and other things Apple does, there are at least two more people buying that same product and another three or more that would if they had the money. That is why Apple's market share grows every year despite all the people on MacRumors that complain. If you don't like their practices, stop supporting Apple and go to Windows (absurdly expensive and faulty OS) or Linux (they have tons of free stuff).

 

[kallisti]

Wait. So adding a Stocks, Email, Maps, Notes, and Weather widgets are the equivalent to paying for Leopard or Vista? Please... This is firmware update, nothing more. Also, what kind of "power" are you talking about? Its a portable media player. Either way, I don't care what kind of "power" the iPod touch has in comparison to other mobile devices, those devices aren't charging $20 a pop for their firmware updates.

Yes, we all know how much "time" it takes or whatever you guys are saying for these updates to be worth $20, but it doesn't change the fact that other companies have been giving free FIRMWARE updates for ever. For example, the original Zune got a complete overhaul in interface and some new features for free. Sony added Skype to its PSP. The Xbox/PS3/Wii get new features added all the time. What is the difference?

Maybe Im not understanding something, but I looked on Google for why they supposedly have to charge for these updates and found nothing. And why can Sony or Microsoft give these updates for free, but Apple feel the need to CHARGE us... twice??? Why ... Why???

If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Speak with your dollars. I bought an iPhone because I felt that what it offered justified the price. I am happy with the functionality it has offered and feel that all the subsequent updates have been gravy.

The potential offered by the newly released SDK blows away all of my expectations. Based on the comments from the SDK event, I feel I am getting even more for my money (and remember I was happy with what the iPhone offered at release or I wouldn't have bought it).

I am unclear what world you live in. If you don't feel the product meets your needs then why did you buy it in the first place? If you don't feel the added functionality provided with the upcoming updates is valuable, then don't pay for it. If you see another product out there that better meets your needs, then by all means buy it.

Otherwise you are just being a drama queen and whining. I am tired of wasting my time viewing vacuous posts that offer nothing of interest. Either add substance to your post or go elsewhere. I consider my time too valuable to waste it with these "I want everything free" posts.

 

[numediaman]

Have you looked up this guy's profile and seen his posts (Syrus28)? Looks like a paid troll to me, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Syrus28]

Have you looked up this guy's profile and seen his posts (Syrus28)? Looks like a paid troll to me, but that's just my opinion.

Oh please...

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

Really? So you've never paid for a commercial operating system upgrade (i.e. OS X, Windows)?

The way I see it, and the way I think Apple sees it, the software on the Touch is closer to a computer OS than these other mobile device OS's. If you disagree, do you think that any of these other devices has the power that was just demonstrated today? If not, I don't think the development to get there would be quick or easy. Thus, would cost $$.

Charging isn't the problem. Blaming it on some made up excuse about SOX is the problem. Just be up front about it and let people know that they are going to have to pay for every touch update from here on out, no matter how large or small.

 

[Syrus28]

If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Speak with your dollars. I bought an iPhone because I felt that what it offered justified the price. I am happy with the functionality it has offered and feel that all the subsequent updates have been gravy.

Because you haven't paid $20 for any of them...

The potential offered by the newly released SDK blows away all of my expectations. Based on the comments from the SDK event, I feel I am getting even more for my money (and remember I was happy with what the iPhone offered at release or I wouldn't have bought it).

I didn't say it was bad or anything, nor did I say it wasn't deserving for $20. But if it was worth $20, why do iPhone users get it for free? But why do they charge us Touch users but gives it to iPhones for free?

I am unclear what world you live in. If you don't feel the product meets your needs then why did you buy it in the first place? If you don't feel the added functionality provided with the upcoming updates is valuable, then don't pay for it. If you see another product out there that better meets your needs, then by all means buy it.

Did I say any of that? I am pissed that I payed just as much money for my iPod touch than did most iPhone users yet we are getting shafted from all the good stuff. Nothing more.

Otherwise you are just being a drama queen and whining. I am tired of wasting my time viewing vacuous posts that offer nothing of interest. Either add substance to your post or go elsewhere. I consider my time too valuable to waste it with these "I want everything free" posts.

Oh please. Get over yourself. I simply responded to Euge's post which I found flawed (comparing OS to firmware update). If your time is so valuable then why even respond? And by the way, never did I ask for "everything free". But I am still wondering why deems us iPod touch users less important to charge us $20 for updates iPhones get for free?

 

[asdavis10]

Charging isn't the problem. Blaming it on some made up excuse about SOX is the problem. Just be up front about it and let people know that they are going to have to pay for every touch update from here on out, no matter how large or small.

Because you haven't paid $20 for any of them...


I didn't say it was bad or anything, nor did I say it wasn't deserving for $20. But if it was worth $20, why do iPhone users get it for free? But why do they charge us Touch users but gives it to iPhones for free?


Did I say any of that? I am pissed that I payed just as much money for my iPod touch than did most iPhone users yet we are getting shafted from all the good stuff. Nothing more.


Oh please. Get over yourself. I simply responded to Euge's post which I found flawed (comparing OS to firmware update). If your time is so valuable then why even respond? And by the way, never did I ask for "everything free". But I am still wondering why deems us iPod touch users less important to charge us $20 for updates iPhones get for free?

This was cleared up after MacWorld in January. Apple has to charge for the update. So please stop whining about it. Get over it or switch but complaining about this won't do a thing but continue to make it look like you don't know what your talking about (which you clearly don't).

http://www.macworld.com/article/131991/2008/02/ipodtouch.html

 

[Syrus28]

I like to tell people this all the time, but Apple is not your average company. They are in many ways the standard that other companies are judged. Just look at Fortunes list of "Top 20 Most Admired Companies". There are 2 things in life that you pay a premium for. One is convenience and the other is quality. And Apple offers superior quality in all its products than their competitors. The Zune should never be compared to the iPod Touch. The Touch is so far ahead of the Zune its not even funny. Apple can charge what they want because for every person that complains about the prices and other things Apple does, there are at least two more people buying that same product and another three or more that would if they had the money. That is why Apple's market share grows every year despite all the people on MacRumors that complain. If you don't like their practices, stop supporting Apple and go to Windows (absurdly expensive and faulty OS) or Linux (they have tons of free stuff).

Oh please... Apple may not be your average company, but they managed to provide free firmware updates for their iPhone and past products, while still upholding such quality and convenience you speak of. What has changed?

I don't care how good the Zune is compared to the iPod touch. I do care, however, that a rivaling company (Microsoft) can offer free firmware updates to its product, adding new features and a new interface, yet Apple cares to charge $20. Microsoft is held on just as high of a pedestal. Its not an average company either. In fact, it ranks higher than on "Top 20 Most Admirable Companies". So exactly what is the difference? That's what I want to know.


EDIT: Im wrong, that link was for 2006. For 2007, Apple is 7th, Microsoft is 12th. Still doesn't change my point tho.

 

[Syrus28]

This was cleared up after MacWorld in January. Apple has to charge for the update. So please stop whining about it. Get over it or switch but complaining about this won't do a thing but continue to make it look like you don't know what your talking about (which you clearly don't).

http://www.macworld.com/article/131991/2008/02/ipodtouch.html

Since you are so enlightened, maybe you can help me understand.

“It’s an accounting requirement that if you upgrade a device that’s not on a subscription, you have to charge,” Needham and Company financial analyst Charles Wolf said.

Well why can Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo get away with it?

 

[kallisti]

Because you haven't paid $20 for any of them...


I didn't say it was bad or anything, nor did I say it wasn't deserving for $20. But if it was worth $20, why do iPhone users get it for free? But why do they charge us Touch users but gives it to iPhones for free?


Did I say any of that? I am pissed that I payed just as much money for my iPod touch than did most iPhone users yet we are getting shafted from all the good stuff. Nothing more.


Oh please. Get over yourself. I simply responded to Euge's post which I found flawed (comparing OS to firmware update). If your time is so valuable then why even respond? And by the way, never did I ask for "everything free". But I am still wondering why deems us iPod touch users less important to charge us $20 for updates iPhones get for free?

Ah, now I see your point. My response is that iPhone users are actually paying for the updates with our monthly fee to AT&T/Apple. These aren't "free" updates for iPhone users, we are actually paying more over the life of the product compared to iPod Touch users.

You aren't locked into a 2 year contract. It's a totally different discussion as to whether the costs of the AT&T contract "justify" the phone use of the iPhone.

For some people it's yes, for others it is quite possibly no.

I am paying a tax to Apple for the added use of phone services. Whether that "equals" the extra cash that iPod Touch users have to pay for updates that are "free" to me is up for debate.

But the point remains that you have to decide the value of the added functionality that Apple is offering. If all the extra "candy" is worth whatever they decide to charge, then fine. If it isn't, then that is also fine. YOU will need to decide what functionality is important to you and how much you are willing to pay for it. Maybe you will end up with Apple. Maybe with another company. But in the end, it's all about value for money.

 

[genshi]

Microsoft is held on just as high of a pedestal. Its not an average company either. In fact, it ranks higher than on "Top 20 Most Admirable Companies". So exactly what is the difference? That's what I want to know.

Uh, sorry but that link is from 2006... try the updated Top 20 Most Admired Companies for 2008! (hint: Apple is number one)

 

[asdavis10]

Oh please... Apple may not be your average company, but they managed to provide free firmware updates for their iPhone and past products, while still upholding such quality and convenience you speak of. What has changed?

I don't care how good the Zune is compared to the iPod touch. I do care, however, that a rivaling company (Microsoft) can offer free firmware updates to its product, adding new features and a new interface, yet Apple cares to charge $20. Microsoft is held on just as high of a pedestal. Its not an average company either. In fact, it ranks higher than on "Top 20 Most Admirable Companies". So exactly what is the difference? That's what I want to know.


EDIT: Im wrong, that link was for 2006. For 2007, Apple is 7th, Microsoft is 12th. Still doesn't change my point tho.

The difference is that I don't care about M$ or what they do. I hope Apple to a different standard and so do most people. Apple is gaining on the marketshare that M$ has had for so long. They must be doing something right in spite of whiners like you.

 

[Syrus28]

Uh, sorry but that link is from 2006... try the updated Most Admired Companies for 2008!

Yes I know. My edit beat you by 1 minute!


EDIT: lol. Mine is still old. I didn't know 08 List was out yet.

 

[Syrus28]

The difference is that I don't care about M$ or what they do. I hope Apple to a different standard and so do most people. Apple is gaining on the marketshare that M$ has had for so long. They must be doing something right in spite of whiners like you.

Very mature response... I won't even get into comparing Microsoft to Apple, thats not what this thread is about.

 

[asdavis10]

Very mature response... I won't even get into comparing Microsoft to Apple, thats not what this thread is about.

That statement tells me everything I need to hear about you. "I won't even get into comparing Microsoft to Apple"...thats a true M$ fanboy statement. Why are you on MacRumors? Don't answer that.

 

[Syrus28]

That statement tells me everything I need to hear about you. "I won't even get into comparing Microsoft to Apple"...thats a true M$ fanboy statement. Why are you on MacRumors? Don't answer that.

How so? Because I am trying to stay on topic? Your making no sense.

 

[asdavis10]

How so? Because I am trying to stay on topic? Your making no sense.

I applaud you for keeping us on topic but you shouldn't have even commented on this thread in the first place. You lack of knowledge on the subject only helps to confuse the uninformed when they read your posts. Do some research before you comment in these threads. They're supposed to be intellectual discussions and you haven't contributed anything of substance.

 

[Syrus28]

I applaud you for keeping us on topic but you shouldn't have even commented on this thread in the first place. You lack of knowledge on the subject only helps to confuse the uninformed when they read your posts. Do some research before you comment in these threads. They're supposed to be intellectual discussions and you haven't contributed anything of substance.

Yes, because your constant jabs at anyone who finds fault in Apple and their practices are full of intellectuality and substance. Please...

I came here asking a question, which has yet to be answered [reasonably]. Since your posts are filled with so much substance, maybe you should help me.

Maybe Im not understanding something, but I looked on Google for why they supposedly have to charge for these updates and found nothing. And why can Sony or Microsoft give these updates for free, but Apple feel the need to CHARGE us... twice??? Why ... Why???

 

[asdavis10]

Yes, because your constant jabs at anyone who finds fault in Apple and their practices are full of intellectuality and substance. Please...

I came here asking a question, which has yet to be answered [reasonably]. Since your posts are filled with so much substance, maybe you should help me.

Post #638

 

[Syrus28]

Post #638

I like how you didn't quote your own response. Well played

@Kallisti
My response to that is that people who used the iPhone aren't really paying Apple. You are paying AT&T for phone and data services, not for the privilege of using the phone itself. (You don't have to sign up with AT&T). This is in line with basically every other phone out there. However, Apple gets a monthly cut from the profits AT&T makes. We aren't exactly paying them. Although I wouldn't have a problem if they cited this as the reason.

However, Apple cites reasons that they charge for iPod touch updates is because of accounting purposes [not subscription based], although numerous rivals are able to provide them for free. THAT is what I don't understand.

 

[KurtangleTN]

So you think Apple should make users watch some ads first when they download apps from the App Store on their iPhones?

Or it could be as simple as the two sites mentioned, little banner ads, some text ads you can easily ignore. Since it's not about the money, why doesn't Apple charge the same hosting fee for podcasts?

Apple severely hyped and disappointed me in one event. I don't have a problem with Apple hosting them, but charging to put apps on ($99 a year?!?) is ridiculous. It kills open source, which make up some of the better apps on desktops.

Apple is the new Microsoft. Apple at least produces quality products still, but they seal things off because Steve Jobs is so OC over it.

I don't buy the security concern bull crap either. I'm sure it was when it first introduced, since Steve Job's was originally obsessed with sealing it off, limiting a powerful OS and device to crappy web apps, but with the latest updates and the 2.0, I don't see why they'd be so concerned.

Seems like Apple wants to nickle and dime you at every opportunity possible, trying to make up your backdating loss Mr. Jobs. Oh wait, it's not about the money.

 

[GQB]

I didn't say it was bad or anything, nor did I say it wasn't deserving for $20. But if it was worth $20, why do iPhone users get it for free? But why do they charge us Touch users but gives it to iPhones for free?

For the 5000th time, iPhone users ARE paying for it... a little out of every monthly payment they make to their carrier, or with the enormous surcharge they may pay for an unlocked phone. Its called subscription and booked over 2 years.
touch owners pay, from the figures I've seen, a tad less in total than iPhone users.
So STOOOOOOPPPPPPP WHINING!!!!

 

[Syrus28]

For the 5000th time, iPhone users ARE paying for it... a little out of every monthly payment they make to their carrier, or with the enormous surcharge they may pay for an unlocked phone. Its called subscription and booked over 2 years.
touch owners pay, from the figures I've seen, a tad less in total than iPhone users.
So STOOOOOOPPPPPPP WHINING!!!!

You pay that subscription to AT&T for your phone and data services, nothing more. You seem to be the one who is whining.

 

[arn]

Maybe Im not understanding something, but I looked on Google for why they supposedly have to charge for these updates and found nothing. And why can Sony or Microsoft give these updates for free, but Apple feel the need to CHARGE us... twice??? Why ... Why???

Here's the official why:

http://www.macworld.com/article/131991/2008/02/ipodtouch.html

“It’s an accounting requirement that if you upgrade a device that’s not on a subscription, you have to charge,” Needham and Company financial analyst Charles Wolf said. “Apple has a choice of what to charge, but they have to charge.”

You can say it doesn't make sense, you can say it shouldn't be like that... but this is the official reason why... so stop trying to argue that point.

It's open/closed as to why. Why does Apple charge ipod touch owners? Because of this accounting rule.

Now if you want to argue that it shouldn't be that way, or Apple should not interpret the law this way.... take it to Apple. None of us can change that behavior.

more reading if you are so inclined

http://www.aicpa.org/pubs/jofa/dec2007/software_revenue.htm

The consequences of not complying with the rules loom large. If companies are taken by surprise and are unable to develop the requisite analysis, they may be unable to prepare financial statements in accordance with GAAP.

.....

Apple has disclosed in quarterly filings that it recognizes revenue from its new iPhone as well as the iPod and Macintosh computers under software revenue recognition rules. Apple will record all revenue and related costs of sales from the iPhone on a straight-line basis over the two-year estimated life of this product. Historically, many hardware companies might have recognized revenue upfront, at the time of the sale, from a product similar to an iPhone. However, Apple intends to provide iPhone users with free software upgrades, necessitating the deferral of revenue under SOP 97-2.

arn

 

[gwangung]

You pay that subscription to AT&T for your phone and data services, nothing more.

That's factually wrong.

Apple gets a portion of that revenue; there's a line item in their quarterly reports for it.

He's not whining; he's stating a fact.