Lost TV show (Season 6) -- includes spoilers on show nights

[mstrze]

Back to the Black Rock ship. I've found some interesting stuff researching the Black Rock.

It was a real ship.

Sorry Peace...as I always seem to be the one 'calling you out'.

BUT...you REALLY believe some freewebs website, that this was a real ship?

There is no other corroborating evidence out there that this freewebs site is nothing more than a fan creation, or something created by the producers of LOST. I saw one other site that copies this info verbatim and every other like points to this solidly being a LOST creation.

 

[techfreak85]

Regarding the ship, what if Magnus Hanso is the MIB, and the crew(specifically Jacob) revolted, thus causing the conflict between Jacob & MIB.

http://www.onentofl.com/magnushanso.html
after examining that pages source, it looks like it was intentionally created for lost.

<meta name="keywords" content="cerberus, hanso, magnus, dharma, black rock, alvar, cerberus, cerberus, cerberus, www.losttvforums.com">

and the last line kinda sounds a little obvious.

Perhaps some
day some of the mysteries of The
Black Rock and its crew may be solved.

 

[Peace]

Sorry Peace...as I always seem to be the one 'calling you out'.

BUT...you REALLY believe some freewebs website, that this was a real ship?

There is no other corroborating evidence out there that this freewebs site is nothing more than a fan creation, or something created by the producers of LOST. I saw one other site that copies this info verbatim and every other like points to this solidly being a LOST creation.

Looks like I was PWND. However my theory stands as is.

 

[mysterytramp]

Regarding the ship, what if Magnus Hanso is the MIB, and the crew(specifically Jacob) revolted, thus causing the conflict between Jacob & MIB.

How do you explain the scene where Jacob and MIB are on the beach and see the Black Rock out at sea? I'm thinking Jacob and MIB predate all that, and the Black Rock is just the Flight 815 of a previous century.

mt

 

[barr08]

How do you explain the scene where Jacob and MIB are on the beach and see the Black Rock out at sea? I'm thinking Jacob and MIB predate all that, and the Black Rock is just the Flight 815 of a previous century.

mt

Agreed. I see the events on the Island as cyclical. They hinted at this in the still-epic season 5 finale, when MiB said something to the effect of 'they come, they fight, they corrupt, they destroy, it always ends the same way'. The Black Rock was just another batch of recruits - a batch that I believe included an enslaved Richard Alpert, and perhaps even Dogen or some of the new others. Those who pass, or are decided worthy, get/have to stay, and take some position on the Island, with the ultimate goal of protecting it from the outside world.

Oceanic 815 is the newest batch. Perhaps the Dharma Initiative was a batch too. Remember, Ben, among other DI members, joined the others after the purge. Perhaps there is always a 'purge' after the 'winners' are chosen.

 

[Lyle]

Sorry Peace...as I always seem to be the one 'calling you out'.

BUT...you REALLY believe some freewebs website, that [the Black Rock] was a real ship?

I also think that this particular site that Peace linked to is a fake of some sort (including the detail that it was supposed to return to slip 23).

It does however appear that there is a location called "Black Rock" where a slave ship "Trouvadore" went down in 1841. Unless NOAA is also in on the hoax, I mean.

 

[Surely]

How do you explain the scene where Jacob and MIB are on the beach and see the Black Rock out at sea? I'm thinking Jacob and MIB predate all that, and the Black Rock is just the Flight 815 of a previous century.

mt

I forgot about that particular scene...... too...many...details....to...remember....

That makes a lot of sense. Good call.

So I wonder how far back Jacob and the MIB go? How did they get there? The MIB has stated that he wants to go home, so at least he arrived on the island at some point. Did Jacob also arrive there, or is he somehow an original island creation?

Agreed. I see the events on the Island as cyclical. They hinted at this in the still-epic season 5 finale, when MiB said something to the effect of 'they come, they fight, they corrupt, they destroy, it always ends the same way'. The Black Rock was just another batch of recruits - a batch that I believe included an enslaved Richard Alpert, and perhaps even Dogen or some of the new others. Those who pass, or are decided worthy, get/have to stay, and take some position on the Island, with the ultimate goal of protecting it from the outside world.

Oceanic 815 is the newest batch. Perhaps the Dharma Initiative was a batch too. Remember, Ben, among other DI members, joined the others after the purge. Perhaps there is always a 'purge' after the 'winners' are chosen.

Makes tons of sense.

It's all starting to (sadly) come together.....

 

[barr08]

So I wonder how far back Jacob and the MIB go? How did they get there? The MIB has stated that he wants to go home, so at least he arrived on the island at some point. Did Jacob also arrive there, or is he somehow an original island creation?

Thinking about some of the more prominent themes of Lost, I have to assume that Jacob and MiB were placed on the Island as a form of punishment, and a chance for redemption. This happened before any of the subjects were introduced to the Island - somehow their punishment traps them on the Island (at least in the long run), and forces them to test the human condition. Once a point is proven, once someone realizes the mistakes of his past, then it ends ('it only ends once, everything up until then is just progress').

I am thinking that the trials and hardships endured by the 815 survivors, the DI, and probably everyone brought to the Island runs parallel to the lessons trying to be taught to the higher powers on the Island. In other words, Jacob and MiB are being taught the same lessons that the survivors are learning. The survivors are put into impossible situations to teach them, to see how they react, which in turn teaches Jacob/MiB. Or perhaps teaches just Jacob, since MiB seems to be the antagonist.

I know I made quite a few assumptions here, but humor me!

 

[Surely]

Thinking about some of the more prominent themes of Lost, I have to assume that Jacob and MiB were placed on the Island as a form of punishment, and a chance for redemption. This happened before any of the subjects were introduced to the Island - somehow their punishment traps them on the Island (at least in the long run), and forces them to test the human condition. Once a point is proven, once someone realizes the mistakes of his past, then it ends ('it only ends once, everything up until then is just progress').

I am thinking that the trials and hardships endured by the 815 survivors, the DI, and probably everyone brought to the Island runs parallel to the lessons trying to be taught to the higher powers on the Island. In other words, Jacob and MiB are being taught the same lessons that the survivors are learning. The survivors are put into impossible situations to teach them, to see how they react, which in turn teaches Jacob/MiB. Or perhaps teaches just Jacob, since MiB seems to be the antagonist.

I know I made quite a few assumptions here, but humor me!

I'll humor you only because of your excellent avatar.

The only problem I have with your assumptions, is that if Jacob (and the MIB) aren't the most powerful people/beings on the island, and they were brought there to be punished, then who brought them there, and what are they being punished for? Is there really enough time left to start telling a story about an even newer and higher level of authority in the organization structure of The Island?

I really hope that there isn't some sort of vague higher power (y'know, like a glowing light that talks) that uses the Island to teach people lessons.


OT, I'm looking forward to seeing more about the Charles Widmore/Desmond/Penny storyline, and more about what the hell Daniel Farraday has been up to all this time.

 

[mysterytramp]

Based on the fact that damn near every character on this show has parental issues (does anybody NOT have issues?), what if ...

Jacob and MIB represent some sort of parent figures to humanity. MIB has taken the male persona at some time after the union with Jacob in a previous attempt to find a "loophole." MIB just wants a divorce and Jacob's rules won't allow it. Maybe even the Smoke Monster isn't MIB's original form ...

The writers might be able to use this to explain -- though I'm at a complete loss -- why women can't give birth. It might also doubleback to Aaron ... Because he was born on the island, he is the one who will take Jacob's place (or possibly the place of Jacob's boss).

Looking at the Disappearing Ginger Kid reminded me of the time Walt appeared mysteriously. Isn't there some mystery surrounding Walt's birth? We're assuming Michael is the father. Aaron's dad, we assume, was that slacker Claire hooked up with ... I'm guessing Disappearing Ginger Kid is Aaron somehow.

Might also explain Juliet's importance to the Others ... the Others weren't trying to get ALL the babies born, just the first to take a role in the future of the island.

mt

 

[barr08]

I'll humor you only because of your excellent avatar.

The only problem I have with your assumptions, is that if Jacob (and the MIB) aren't the most powerful people/beings on the island, and they were brought there to be punished, then who brought them there, and what are they being punished for? Is there really enough time left to start telling a story about an even newer and higher level of authority in the organization structure of The Island?

I really hope that there isn't some sort of vague higher power (y'know, like a glowing light that talks) that uses the Island to teach people lessons.

THE WHAAALLLEEE!

Until this past episode, I totally agreed with everything you just said. The only reason I'm starting to pursue this higher power idea is because of the blonde kid we met last episode. Seeing the child definitely spun Flocke, and the fact that Sawyer could see it to seemed to bother him even more. If he is really the highest power on the Island, having just killed Jacob, nothing on the Island would confuse/upset/scare him.

The obvious argument here is that the kid is a manifestation of, or is manifested by, Jacob, the only other power on the Island equivalent to MiB.

Edit: I do agree that having yet another higher power on the Island would be a storytelling disaster, and a very cheap twist, but if anyone could potentially pull it off, it's the writers and producers of Lost.

 

[Surely]

THE WHAAALLLEEE!

The obvious argument here is that the kid is a manifestation of, or is manifested by, Jacob, the only other power on the Island equivalent to MiB.

Edit: I do agree that having yet another higher power on the Island would be a storytelling disaster, and a very cheap twist, but if anyone could potentially pull it off, it's the writers and producers of Lost.

That's what I think- that the kid is either Jacob or is a manifestation created by Jacob (maybe Lost is really Sphere 2?). That's why the MIB was so shocked to see the kid. Maybe that's why the MIB is in such a rush- because he only has a limited window to get off the island while Jacob is down.

Re: your edit: yeah, it would be cheap, and I don't know if they have enough time to pull off a great explanation of that.

 

[Peace]

It could also be Jacob in the form of Aaron ?. He somehow is back on the island ?

Has anyone seen the preview for this weeks episode? I don't want to post a spoiler.

 

[lighthouse_man]

Re: your edit: yeah, it would be cheap, and I don't know if they have enough time to pull off a great explanation of that.

Well judging by the way fake Locke reacted when the kid told him that he can't kill "him" because of the rules, if he and Jacob are the ones that set the rules, with Jacob out of the way, Flocke can break his own rules, unless they were set by a higher power.

 

[Peace]

Well judging by the way fake Locke reacted when the kid told him that he can't kill "him" because of the rules, if he and Jacob are the ones that set the rules, with Jacob out of the way, Flocke can break his own rules, unless they were set by a higher power.

I took that to mean the rules of the island itself.
But I also remember Daniel saying you can't change anything. Then later he said you could.

 

[lighthouse_man]

I took that to mean the rules of the island itself.
But I also remember Daniel saying you can't change anything. Then later he said you could.

Well then the island itself is the higher power, whether it's intelligent or not is yet to be seen. But the prohibition from killing sounded more like a moral rule than anything else, and morals, while set by a higher power, can be broken.

 

[Peace]

Well then the island itself is the higher power, whether it's intelligent or not is yet to be seen. But the prohibition from killing sounded more like a moral rule than anything else, and morals, while set by a higher power, can be broken.

There are mathematical rules also. and they can't be changed.

 

[DISCOMUNICATION]

Good an episode so important they can't even preview it. Better not be getting my hopes up. I guess some ones going to die next week. But who's at the temple we would even care about? Sayid's infected so I bet he joins "Not Locke". Maybe he goes all smokey and we actually get to see the transformation this time.

 

[fireshot91]

Wow. I must say this episode was kind of epic....

We figured out that Claire is on MiB's side. (Which we sort of already "knew", when the Asian temple dude said it, but this confirmed it) And why did Jin lie to Claire about Aaron?

 

[obeygiant]

Yeah, why would Jin lie about Aaron? To protect Kate?

And why smash the lighthouse mirror?

Great episode.

 

[lighthouse_man]

Wow. I must say this episode was kind of epic....

We figured out that Claire is on MiB's side. (Which we sort of already "knew", when the Asian temple dude said it, but this confirmed it) And why did Jin lie to Claire about Aaron?

Because he's starting to distrust Claire and he thinks he can lead her there and trap her while getting himself saved by the others?

 

[mscriv]

Not much has changed for me since my previous posts. No answers, just more questions. How many episodes do we have left? I was hoping for a smooth well thought out and well played ending, but with each episode that passes all I see is an upcoming rush to fit it all in or worse yet a big let down with lots of unanswered questions. After all of these seasons I firmly believe the title of the show is more a reflection of the state of the audience as opposed to the state of the characters.

 

[Surely]

Obviously Claire and Kate will have a confrontation about Aaron next week (or the week after?). Either they'll fight, or they'll bathe each other in the river.... I'm hoping for scenario #2......

Sucks that Claire killed BLT.....

I'm guessing the reason that Sawyer was able to see the kid (and Richard couldn't) is because Sawyer is a candidate.

I have a continuity question:

How did Locke survive the fall from the 8 story window in the flash-sideways? Didn't he live because Jacob touched him and brought him back to life right after the fall in the original reality?

 

[Bostonaholic]

Obviously Claire and Kate will have a confrontation about Aaron next week (or the week after?). Either they'll fight, or they'll bathe each other in the river.... I'm hoping for scenario #2......

Sucks that Claire killed BLT.....

I'm guessing the reason that Sawyer was able to see the kid (and Richard couldn't) is because Sawyer is a candidate.

I have a continuity question:

How did Locke survive the fall from the 8 story window in the flash-sideways? Didn't he live because Jacob touched him and brought him back to life right after the fall in the original reality?

Maybe in the flash-sideways storyline, he never fell out of the window? Maybe he's paralyzed for another reason? When he and Helen were speaking about their wedding (while Locke was in the tub), she mentioned "Let's just get my parents and your dad..." In the original storyline, it is Locke's dad that pushed him out the window. Listening to what Helen said, I doubt Locke and his father would be in good standing if he had pushed him out a window and doubtful Helen would invite him to their wedding.

 

[Peace]

Ya things are different in the sideways flash. I keep thinking it's a vicious circle though and some how,some time the sideways timeline is going to go back to the island because that's where they came from.