Lost TV show (Season 6) -- includes spoilers on show nights

[ethical]

I'm beginning to figure out why they can't have babies on the island. With all of this time travel and alternate universe stuff going on I guess it's 'kinda up in the air whether any of these people *actually* had sex. I mean, someone may *think* they had sex but come to find out it never happened.

but there wasn't any time travel going on when Juliet was working with the Others, and they still couldnt have children. Plus, it doesn't explain why the pregnant women die, instead of just not giving birth.

I would also like to propose the following possibility -

We know that the nemesis can control dead people to some extent, either their bodies or an image of their bodies. Now that Jacob is dead, it is conceivable that the nemesis can control Jacob's image, so it could be him giving directions to Hurley, and not Jacob. This could cause some major issues going forward.

Very interesting. That would certainly add another twist to the never-ending helix that is the plot

 

[lostfan916]

I would also like to propose the following possibility -

We know that the nemesis can control dead people to some extent, either their bodies or an image of their bodies. Now that Jacob is dead, it is conceivable that the nemesis can control Jacob's image, so it could be him giving directions to Hurley, and not Jacob. This could cause some major issues going forward.

That's a very interesting possibility. The only thing that makes me not believe it is the conversation that the two have; how he tells Hurley that he was just murdered and to bring the guitar that he gave him. This would mean that Flocke left the island, gave the guitar to Hurley and wanted Hurley to give the guitar to the asain fellow at the temple. And also why would Flocke tell Hurley that he just murdered Jacob? That seemed to alert the Others which maybe Flocke wouldn't want (or would???)

 

[Peace]

Keep in mind Hurley sees dead people.

 

[tabasco70]

I also think that there aren't multiple timelines, so to speak, but rather one constant one, just the people are in different times.

The flash-sideways (thats what the producers call it) are definitely multiple timelines. They're in the same time period, because Zach and Emma (the two children) still appear as young children in the timeline with the temple dwellers.

There's one timeline where they didn't crash, and another where they did crash.
If they weren't separate timelines, how could these two events coexist?

 

[mscriv]

Someone needs to make a big chart of the multiple timelines/dimensions so we can at least get it straight as to how and when they have intersected or jumped. Just when I think I've got all the facts straight I realize I don't. It would be nice to have a visual representation to follow.

 

[barr08]

That's a very interesting possibility. The only thing that makes me not believe it is the conversation that the two have; how he tells Hurley that he was just murdered and to bring the guitar that he gave him. This would mean that Flocke left the island, gave the guitar to Hurley and wanted Hurley to give the guitar to the asain fellow at the temple. And also why would Flocke tell Hurley that he just murdered Jacob? That seemed to alert the Others which maybe Flocke wouldn't want (or would???)

Yes, this is the one big hole in that idea. Hurley got the case from Jacob off the Island, but the nemesis probably can't go off Island, as 'going home' has been his unachievable goal this whole time. Also, Hurley had the guitar case by his side from the second it was given to him (as far as we know), so there is no chance for foul play from the nemesis.

Keep in mind Hurley sees dead people.

Exactly. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for some classic LOST misdirection!

 

[Disc Golfer]

Actually in the space time continuum none of the Oceanic people seem to age.

I think that might be just a result of being really pretty and on television.

The Boone and Locke interaction was also interesting.

I couldn't help but notice that Boone's stepsister (blond girl, died- name?) was conspicuously absent from that plane ride.

Richard is a polar bear! The eyeliner is misdirection.

 

[Unspeaked]

The flash-sideways (thats what the producers call it) are definitely multiple timelines. They're in the same time period, because Zach and Emma (the two children) still appear as young children in the timeline with the temple dwellers.

There's one timeline where they didn't crash, and another where they did crash.
If they weren't separate timelines, how could these two events coexist?

Exactly. You don't see the characters in the 2007 timeline talking about how great it was when the plane didn't crash in 2004 but how the ended up on the island anyway. As far as they're concerned, the plane crashed, the bomb didn't work and nothing's changed except they went back to the future, Juliet died and Sayid almost did.

 

[Peace]

I re-watched Pt.1 last night and when Sun and the pilot are on the beach and talking they say this :

Sun : Who are these people anyway ? ( referring to the new others )

Pilot : I have no idea. All I know is they grabbed me and brought me here along with some guy in a box. Referring to the supposedly Locke in the casket .

Sun looks over at the casket and looks and then turns back and looks over at the other others.

This tells me Sun and the pilot do NOT recognize the person in the box.

Question is. Since I don't remember. Has the pilot ever seen Christian in this timeline ?

I know they both saw him in the shack in 2007. But this is a new timeline.

I think it's possible that there are also two timelines going on on the island.
We just don't know it yet.

 

[ethical]

I re-watched Pt.1 last night and when Sun and the pilot are on the beach and talking they say this :

Sun : Who are these people anyway ? ( referring to the new others )

Pilot : I have no idea. All I know is they grabbed me and brought me here along with some guy in a box. Referring to the supposedly Locke in the casket .

Sun looks over at the casket and looks and then turns back and looks over at the other others.

This tells me Sun and the pilot do NOT recognize the person in the box.

Question is. Since I don't remember. Has the pilot ever seen Christian in this timeline ?

I know they both saw him in the shack in 2007. But this is a new timeline.

I think it's possible that there are also two timelines going on on the island.
We just don't know it yet.

Sun and the Pilot didn't jump through time did they? They saw Christian in the same timeline that they are in now. Then Christian pointed out Locke who was standing outside.

And are you sure the box was open when Sun looked over at it?

 

[Peace]

Sun and the Pilot didn't jump through time did they? They saw Christian in the same timeline that they are in now. Then Christian pointed out Locke who was standing outside.

And are you sure the box was open when Sun looked over at it?

I am positive because when they looked over at the other others Richard started to drag Benjamin over to it to show him who was in it.

Watch Pt. 1 again and you will see.

And I might add they purposefully had the camera on Locke in the casket when FLocke walked by.

That's a hint in itself.

Would also explain why the airline "lost" Christians casket. Because it's really Christian in the casket on the island.

Remember there was a time on the plane when it supposedly hit turbulence and Jack freaked out.
Could be at that moment they were over the island and Christian flashed onto the island.

 

[ethical]

I am positive because when they looked over at the other others Richard started to drag Benjamin over to it to show him who was in it.

Watch Pt. 1 again and you will see.

And I might add they purposefully had the camera on Locke in the casket when FLocke walked by.

That's a hint in itself.

Would also explain why the airline "lost" Christians casket. Because it's really Christian in the casket on the island.

Remember there was a time on the plane when it supposedly hit turbulence and Jack freaked out.
Could be at that moment they were over the island and Christian flashed onto the island.

ohh ok. i get the feeling i'm going to have to re-watch episodes quite a lot to get my head round this, as it all comes together

 

[Peace]

Ok I watched it for the 3rd time and i captured the audio.

Keep in mind the other others,the pilot,Sun,Richard and Lockes open casket are next to the statue.

Listen to this conversation. It's very important as I believe it proves sun and the pilot do not recognize who is in the casket. They both look over at the person in it.

Visualize all these people standing around AFTER the new others brought the casket along with the pilot. The new others dropped the casket and lockes body fell out.

http://files.me.com/cmcdan/77213q.mov

 

[mscriv]

Ok Peace, I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying. You think that Locke's dead body from the casket is actually Christian's body and that the producers of the show are tricking us by making it look like Locke's body. Is that right or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

 

[mstrze]

NOT sure I get this either...we see that it's Locke...or looks like Locke, but you seem to think Sun and Frank don't recognize the body as Locke's?

FWIW I am not entirely sure how much interaction Frank Lupedis had with Locke...wasn't he with Jack most of the time and Locke basically went a seperate way with half the 815 folks? I can't really vouch that he didn't encounter Locke...but off the top of my head, I think Frank spent a heck of a lot more time with Jack and Company and therefore isn't as familiar with Locke.

 

[Peace]

Ok Peace, I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying. You think that Locke's dead body from the casket is actually Christian's body and that the producers of the show are tricking us by making it look like Locke's body. Is that right or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

To be honest I'm not sure. I AM sure the pilot and Sun do NOT know the person in the casket.

And it would explain the missing Christian.

Perhaps when FLocke "killed" Jacob Jacob took the form of the "dead" Locke or even Sayad. Note during the conversation between FLocke and Ben ,FLock said Jacob was "gone". He never said he was dead.

 

[fireshot91]

To be honest I'm not sure. I AM sure the pilot and Sun do NOT know the person in the casket.

And it would explain the missing Christian.

I'm pretty sure that when they showed the casket in Season 5, we saw that it was Locke?

 

[mstrze]

Perhaps when FLocke "killed" Jacob Jacob took the form of the "dead" Locke or even Sayad. Note during the conversation between FLocke and Ben ,FLock said Jacob was "gone". He never said he was dead.

Damon Lindelof and Carton Cuse in an interview either at TVguide.com or Entertainment Weekly stated in no uncertain terms that Jacob is dead. They said that people in Lost have been known to show up after they are dead, but Jacob is emphatically dead and was killed by Ben.

It struck me since they were so emphatic about that specific detail.

 

[mstrze]

I'm pretty sure that when they showed the casket in Season 5, we saw that it was Locke?

And we saw it in this episode when Flocke walked by and then they panned down to show Locke in the casket.

So, what's the theory again? We aren't seeing what Frank and Sun are?

 

[Doctor Q]

Yes, this really stuck out to me. Walt has been in just about every season premiere and finale. It was a very interesting omission, one I think they did intentionally - keep him out of our minds until midway through this season when he makes his epic return to the Island.

Edit - this could have been unavoidable - Malcolm David Kelley (Walt) is now 17, so he would definitely stick out playing a 10 year old.

If the writers planned the story as far in advance as they claim, they could have filmed Walt's part for this season years ago.

Someone needs to make a big chart of the multiple timelines/dimensions so we can at least get it straight as to how and when they have intersected or jumped. Just when I think I've got all the facts straight I realize I don't. It would be nice to have a visual representation to follow.

Here ya go.

I couldn't help but notice that Boone's stepsister (blond girl, died- name?) was conspicuously absent from that plane ride.

Boone Carlyle and Shannon Rutherford are half-siblings. Same mom, different dads.


Bad Locke/Jacob's Nemesis/the nemesis/Mr. Loophole/Flocke/Black Shirt Guy/Smokezilla/Mr. Evil/smokey/SM/Man in Black/MiB certainly has a lot of names. And nobody has mentioned the name we used for him last season: Esau, after the biblical story of rival twins Jacob and Esau. Esau was the older brother (the twin born first) but Jacob made a deal to take Esau's birthright. As a result, Esau hated Jacob and vowed to kill him. It sounds like the inspiration for these characters to me.
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[Peace]

From lostpedia.

Frank knows What Locke looks like :

Upon coming to a complete stop, a tree branch jutted through the window and killed the co-pilot instantly. After the crash, Frank attempted to gather all of the survivors together, yet Caesar took a leadership role, revealing to all the existence of buildings and cages on the island. Frank noticed Ben and Sun's departure from the camp, and decided to follow them.



Frank, Sun and Ben make their way to the outrigger canoes. ("Namaste")
Finding three outrigger canoes, Frank decided to join Sun and Ben on their trip to the main island. After Sun knocked Ben unconscious using an oar, Frank and Sun paddled the canoe from Hydra Island to the main Island, where they heard the sounds of the monster. They walked into the Processing Center, which seemed completely abandoned. Soon, a door creaked open, and Christian introduced himself to Frank and Sun. Christian took them to one of the houses, where he showed Sun a picture of DHARMA's new recruits in 1977. Sun was shocked to see Jack, Kate, and Hurley among them. Then, Christian informed her that she had a long journey ahead of her. ("Namaste")

A short time later, Ilana informed Locke that Frank took off with Sun in one of the three outriggers. ("The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham")



Frank is knocked unconscious by a hostile Ilana. ("Dead Is Dead")
Christian told Frank and Sun to wait in the Barracks for John Locke, and to do what he says. When Ben went to investigate his old home he stumbled upon the two. They explained to him why they were there, but they did not believe Locke was alive, until Ben told them to look out the window. Locke came into the house and they talked about what to do next. Frank said he was returning to the Hydra Island to fix the jet radio and see if he could get help, with or without Sun. She decided to stay with Locke so she could find Jin, and Frank returned to the the Hydra Island in the outrigger. Upon his return, a flight 316 passenger named Jed told him that three of the survivors have found guns and claimed leadership of the group. When Frank confronted Ilana, she held him at gunpoint and asked: "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" Bewildered, Frank replied he had no idea what she was talking about, prompting her to knock him unconscious with the butt of her rifle. ("Dead Is Dead")

 

[pilotError]

Maybe both Flocke and Jacob can either posess humans or take human form (old smokey). Perhaps Jacob posessed someone and that is who was killed by Ben.

 

[Peace]

Here's another tricky thing.

2007 (Season 6)
On the beach outside the Statue of Taweret, Frank explains to Sun-Hwa Kwon everything he knows about Ilana and her group. He ends by telling that they profess to be the good guys and, reading the expression on her face, adds "I'm not buying it either."

The following morning, he stands alongside Sun as they watch in shock as the fake John Locke emerges from the statue. Frank sums up the general sentiment of the group when he mutters, "I'm seeing it, but I'm not believing it."

 

[mstrze]

Fair enough Peace...but it still doesn't explain why Frank and Sun somehow see something different than we are seeing.

 

[Peace]

I have a far-fetched theory. Just like 20 million other people.

Each character is in their own timeline.