LTPO Displays Supporting 120Hz Refresh Rates Again Rumored for iPhone 13 Pro Models

[Daum]

Of course iPhone users won't know what the big deal is. Once you experience 120hz, 60hz will give you a seizure. It's kinda like when Apple switched to retina screens on the iPhone 4. No one had issues with the screens in prior iPhones.

Y'all won't experience anything until Apple gives it to you. Only then will it be revolutionary while others have been enjoying it for years. 🤣🤣🤣

 

[cmaier]

Of course iPhone users won't know what the big deal is. Once you experience 120hz, 60hz will give you a seizure. It's kinda like when Apple switched to retina screens on the iPhone 4. No one had issues with the screens in prior iPhones.

Y'all won't experience anything until Apple gives it to you. Only then will it be revolutionary while others have been enjoying it for years. 🤣🤣🤣

And yet we’ve had it on iPad Pro for awhile, and these boards are entirely absent of “i can’t deal with my iphone after using my iPad Pro, because of the choppy scrolling!” posts.

Tons of people have experienced 120hz, and almost nobody seems to have even noticed it.

 

[Premium1]

So budget android phones are getting 120hz displays yet apple is only including them in their "pro" line. Typical apple...

 

[Premium1]

Can someone please educate me on what the big deal is about this?
I don't seem to have any issue with scrolling on my current iphone 12 Max Pro or my 2018 iPad Pro.

Ipad pro has 120hz pro motion. https://www.gsmarena.com/understanding_apples_promotion_display_on_the_new_ipad_pro-news-25446.php

 

[DotCom2]

Ipad pro has 120hz pro motion. https://www.gsmarena.com/understanding_apples_promotion_display_on_the_new_ipad_pro-news-25446.php

Yeah, I didn't even know it, and I had the previous model iPad too. Goes to show ya. I guess my eyes just don't see it.

 

[Daum]

And yet we’ve had it on iPad Pro for awhile, and these boards are entirely absent of “i can’t deal with my iphone after using my iPad Pro, because of the choppy scrolling!” posts.

Tons of people have experienced 120hz, and almost nobody seems to have even noticed it.

I can't explain it but I think it is more noticeable on a smaller screen. Get a galaxy device with 120hz and put it next to your iPhone. 🤣

 

[cmaier]

I can't explain it but I think it is more noticeable on a smaller screen. Get a galaxy device with 120hz and put it next to your iPhone. 🤣

Sure. And when I do that and still don’t much care (after all, the amount of time i spend staring at my phone is not nearly the amount of time i spend looking at other screens), you’ll come up with some other reason that I’m simply wrong about not caring.

 

[Daum]

Sure. And when I do that and still don’t much care (after all, the amount of time i spend staring at my phone is not nearly the amount of time i spend looking at other screens), you’ll come up with some other reason that I’m simply wrong about not caring.

You're right. For a vast majority of people, they won't even know what hz is and nor do they care. They are fine with whatever Apple serves them because they aren't enthusiasts. But once Apple copies... er I mean introduces a "new feature" all of a sudden its the it's life changing. Just because Apple said so. 🤣🤭

 

[redbeard331]

Sure. And when I do that and still don’t much care (after all, the amount of time i spend staring at my phone is not nearly the amount of time i spend looking at other screens), you’ll come up with some other reason that I’m simply wrong about not caring.

Then you should be pushing Apple to save battery life by going back to non retina 163 ppi screens for the iPhone. I mean, just who needs high pixel density anyways? 163 is all anyone NEEDS right? if you can’t tell the difference between 120 and 60hz than you surely can’t tell the difference between a retina and non retina screen either.

On that note, why pack any new tech into phones? Let’s just keep em where they are at now, or even better, since everything is an unnecessary gimmick because you say so, let’s just get Apple to start making the original iPhone again and sell it for over 1,000 dollars.

I think everyone gets it that you don’t care about advancing technology, you’re in the minority, most people want these expensive pocket computers to continually improve. Being the last company on Earth to implement basic tech that others have had for years has been Apples way for lots of things, and understandable in some areas. But to be against them ever implementing this is ludicrous, you’d have Apple selling us a 2,000 dollar phone ten years form now with a 60hz display and a .3 mp camera if you had your way.

 

[cmaier]

Then you should be pushing Apple to save battery life by going back to non retina 163 ppi screens for the iPhone.

I can easily tell he difference between retina or not. When i go from my old MBA which I use for travel to my retina MBP, and then back again, the MBA screen is painful.

Just because I can’t see any benefit to 120Hz doesn’t mean i think all screens are the same. Your argument is an incredibly weak straw man.

 

[Andropov]

Because for 1k it should be expected and standard . Why should somebody need to buy the biggest model to get the same smoothness on a pro device? You shouldn’t

Because it has a bigger battery?

 

[The Game 161]

Because it has a bigger battery?

The question isn’t about battery it’s about refresh rate. You shouldn’t need to get the bigger model to get a higher refresh rate

 

[chucker23n1]

Because it has a bigger battery?

I’m guessing supply constraints are the reason. Roll it out in one model first before you can produce it at higher scale.

 

[Andropov]

The question isn’t about battery it’s about refresh rate. You shouldn’t need to get the bigger model to get a higher refresh rate

Oh but it is about battery. Higher refresh rate ⇒ higher power consupmtion. A worthy tradeoff? Maybe, depending on the use case. On a desktop? Sure. For a phone? Not so sure.

Now that LTPO is available this can be overcome using the variable refresh rate. But having a fixed refresh rate of 120Hz as some high-refresh rate Android phones do is kind of wasteful battery-wise. Imagine watching a movie, which would be recorded at 24fps, refreshing the screen at 120Hz.

I’m guessing supply constraints are the reason. Roll it out in one model first before you can produce it at higher scale.

Yeah, it's most likely a combination of price + supply constraints.

 

[abowlby]

Oh but it is about battery. Higher refresh rate ⇒ higher power consupmtion. A worthy tradeoff? Maybe, depending on the use case. On a desktop? Sure. For a phone? Not so sure.

Now that LTPO is available this can be overcome using the variable refresh rate. But having a fixed refresh rate of 120Hz as some high-refresh rate Android phones do is kind of wasteful battery-wise. Imagine watching a movie, which would be recorded at 24fps, refreshing the screen at 120Hz.


Yeah, it's most likely a combination of price + supply constraints.

You can see an evolution specific to what you’re talking about in Samsung’s product lines - as they moved from panels on the S20 series that would do 120Hz (static) at 1080 while this years S21 Ultra is capable of adaptive frame rates at 1440.

I’m not seeing a lot of acknowledgment about Apple Watch having LTPO in this thread either, which is a pretty strong tell. A lot of comments are maintaining that you “cannot see a higher refresh rate.” While that remains false, something that almost everyone can appreciate (specifically exemplified on the Apple Watch) is a refresh rate that can drop to 1Hz in order to preserve battery.

 

[0924487]

The biggest dissatisfaction I have with iPhone screens is the brightness. They just aren’t that bright in daylight, which makes iPhone navigation apps very painful to read when sun glasses are on.

 

[The Game 161]

Oh but it is about battery. Higher refresh rate ⇒ higher power consupmtion. A worthy tradeoff? Maybe, depending on the use case. On a desktop? Sure. For a phone? Not so sure.

Now that LTPO is available this can be overcome using the variable refresh rate. But having a fixed refresh rate of 120Hz as some high-refresh rate Android phones do is kind of wasteful battery-wise. Imagine watching a movie, which would be recorded at 24fps, refreshing the screen at 120Hz.


Yeah, it's most likely a combination of price + supply constraints.

Even in the upcoming 12s pro the battery will still last all day for most people. Will battery be better on the bigger model due to bigger battery? Sure but doesn’t mean you should have to deal with 60hz on a premium phone in 2021.

I get why we didn’t bet it last year but now LTPO is available it should always be on both pro models

 

[davidd444]

Does anyone know if the new display may have a higher hz refresh rate? I went through every iPhone 12 model (mini to the Max) and was unable to use them for a long time due to PWM rate being so low in those models. I would love to buy the 13 mini, currently using an iPhone SE (yes, 2016 model).

 

[buklauu]

I can easily tell he difference between retina or not. When i go from my old MBA which I use for travel to my retina MBP, and then back again, the MBA screen is painful.

Just because I can’t see any benefit to 120Hz doesn’t mean i think all screens are the same. Your argument is an incredibly weak straw man.

As much as I disagree (I didn't buy the 12 because it lacked a high refresh rate display), your take is completely valid. There's a meme on reddit that people buy gaming monitors, bask in their glory, then find out 6 months later that they left the refresh rate at 60Hz. You're right that the switch to retina (a 4x increase in spatial resolution), is noticed by most everyone. Other improvements, like the switch to the P3 color space (iPhone 7), and switch to OLED (iPhone X), are less obvious. I think a 120Hz display (a 2x increase in temporal resolution) is a desirable upgrade, but Apple's marketing and internal research probably show that a sizable chunk of users either don't notice or don't care.

I suspect that's why they didn't rush to add ProMotion and high refresh rates to the iPhone after initially adding it to the iPad Pro in 2018. Ideally they'd expose an option to keep ProMotion on, but set your own max refresh rate (60Hz, 90Hz, 120Hz). That way you could trade Hz for mW.

 

[abowlby]

As much as I disagree (I didn't buy the 12 because it lacked a high refresh rate display), your take is completely valid. There's a meme on reddit that people buy gaming monitors, bask in their glory, then find out 6 months later that they left the refresh rate at 60Hz. You're right that the switch to retina (a 4x increase in spatial resolution), is noticed by most everyone. Other improvements, like the switch to the P3 color space (iPhone 7), and switch to OLED (iPhone X), are less obvious. I think a 120Hz display (a 2x increase in temporal resolution) is a desirable upgrade, but Apple's marketing and internal research probably show that a sizable chunk of users either don't notice or don't care.

I suspect that's why they didn't rush to add ProMotion and high refresh rates to the iPhone after initially adding it to the iPad Pro in 2018. Ideally they'd expose an option to keep ProMotion on, but set your own max refresh rate (60Hz, 90Hz, 120Hz). That way you could trade Hz for mW.

I feel that cmaier’s claim is invalid because he refuses to acknowledge the battery savings offered by variable refresh rates as well the impact these technologies can have on suffers of epilepsy.

Living With Epilepsy - Adults

A place to share questions, concerns, and challenges that adults with epilepsy may face in understanding, managing and living with seizures.

www.epilepsy.com

The effect of television frame rate on EEG abnormalities in photosensitive and pattern-sensitive epilepsy - PubMed

We suggest that for many patients, the combination of high-contrast patterns and screen flicker may elicit the observed EEG abnormalities. For patients with sensitivity to screen flicker, the use of a high frame-rate television may be beneficial in reducing the risk of seizures.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Nearly *everyone* notices, appreciates and enjoys longer lasting devices. Of course, it is a challenge to get engagement from communities of privilege that feel all features are useless until those in privileged positions deem them worthy, but that is nature of things and unfortunately it at times slows the march of progress.

So for now, “yeah, nobody cares about or notices accessibility features and/or battery life, because I don’t!”

 

[buklauu]

I feel that cmaier’s claim is invalid because it refuses to acknowledge the battery savings offered by variable refresh rates as well the impact these technologies can have on suffers of epilepsy.

Living With Epilepsy - Adults

A place to share questions, concerns, and challenges that adults with epilepsy may face in understanding, managing and living with seizures.

www.epilepsy.com

The effect of television frame rate on EEG abnormalities in photosensitive and pattern-sensitive epilepsy - PubMed

We suggest that for many patients, the combination of high-contrast patterns and screen flicker may elicit the observed EEG abnormalities. For patients with sensitivity to screen flicker, the use of a high frame-rate television may be beneficial in reducing the risk of seizures.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Nearly *everyone* notices, appreciates and enjoys longer lasting devices. Of course, it is a challenge to get engagement from communities of privilege that feel all features are useless until those in privileged positions deem them worthy, but that is nature of things and unfortunately it at times slows the march of progress.

So for now, “yeah, nobody cares about or notices accessibility features and/or battery life, because I don’t!”

I mostly commented for the viewpoint rather than the commenter. I know for a fact my parents and most other family members wouldn't notice or care they were using a 120Hz phone. My brother and I would notice and prefer it, and it seems strange not to want one, but there are still people in my life who fit this description.

Without supply, time, or cost constraints, Apple would ideally fit all their OLED displays with LTPO backpanels to enable ProMotion regardless of max refresh rate. If your screen is static, it doesn't need to be refreshing 60 times a second. HFR/VRR helping with epilepsy is new to me and interesting; makes sense as you get smoother video with reductions in sudden tears/artifacts appearing.

 

[cmaier]

I feel that cmaier’s claim is invalid because it refuses to acknowledge the battery savings offered by variable refresh rates as well the impact these technologies can have on suffers of epilepsy.

Living With Epilepsy - Adults

A place to share questions, concerns, and challenges that adults with epilepsy may face in understanding, managing and living with seizures.

www.epilepsy.com

The effect of television frame rate on EEG abnormalities in photosensitive and pattern-sensitive epilepsy - PubMed

We suggest that for many patients, the combination of high-contrast patterns and screen flicker may elicit the observed EEG abnormalities. For patients with sensitivity to screen flicker, the use of a high frame-rate television may be beneficial in reducing the risk of seizures.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Nearly *everyone* notices, appreciates and enjoys longer lasting devices. Of course, it is a challenge to get engagement from communities of privilege that feel all features are useless until those in privileged positions deem them worthy, but that is nature of things and unfortunately it at times slows the march of progress.

So for now, “yeah, nobody cares about or notices accessibility features and/or battery life, because I don’t!”

I wasn’t commenting on LOWER refresh rates. I was commenting on 120Hz. So not sure what battery savings has to do with it. All I said was *I* don’t see much noticeable difference between 120 and 60, and the difference I see is not worth worrying about to *me*

For you to say my claim is invalid, you are saying I am not accurately relaying my own opinion - that somehow you know MY opinion better than me. Only on the internet would one find such lunacy.

I never said “nobody cares” or any of the things you have claimed I said.

 

[cmaier]

I mostly commented for the viewpoint rather than the commenter. I know for a fact my parents and most other family members wouldn't notice or care they were using a 120Hz phone. My brother and I would notice and prefer it, and it seems strange not to want one, but there are still people in my life who fit this description.

Without supply, time, or cost constraints, Apple would ideally fit all their OLED displays with LTPO backpanels to enable ProMotion regardless of max refresh rate. If your screen is static, it doesn't need to be refreshing 60 times a second. HFR/VRR helping with epilepsy is new to me and interesting; makes sense as you get smoother video with reductions in sudden tears/artifacts appearing.

You’ve gone even further than me. I only ever said *I* don’t see a big difference. Beyond that I said that iPad Pro owners who have 120Hz don’t seem to be commenting a lot on how much they love it vs their 60Hz devices. That’s it. I never said any of the things this guy is saying I said.

 

[abowlby]

I wasn’t commenting on LOWER refresh rates. I was commenting on 120Hz. So not sure what battery savings has to do with it. All I said was *I* don’t see much noticeable difference between 120 and 60, and the difference I see is not worth worrying about to *me*

For you to say my claim is invalid, you are saying I am not accurately relaying my own opinion - that somehow you know MY opinion better than me. Only on the internet would one find such lunacy.

I never said “nobody cares” or any of the things you have claimed I said.

“Tons of people have experienced 120hz, and almost nobody seems to have even noticed it.” - Post #77

“This makes me happy primarily so that people who constantly whine about this will move on to complain about other things that, perhaps, the rest of us can actually see.” - Post #5

Maybe these quotes of yours will help you understand why you seem to be talking about people other than yourself?

 

[cmaier]

“Tons of people have experienced 120hz, and almost nobody seems to have even noticed it.” - Post #77

“This makes me happy primarily so that people who constantly whine about this will move on to complain about other things that, perhaps, the rest of us can actually see.” - Post #5

Maybe these quotes of yours will help you understand why you seem to be talking about people other than yourself?

post #77 - you took that out of context by omitting the prior sentence, which points out that the sentence you DID quote is talking about the fact that people with ipad Pros aren’t crowing about 120Hz.

post #5 - says absolutely nothing about whether most people can or cannot see it. Only that some of can, and some of can’t.

So, no, I have no idea why you keep posting personal attacks against me while misrepresenting what I have said.