Apple supports its own shaders metal, I guess the only way to settle this is through benchmarks i bet $10 in Crypto of your choice. Send me the address.
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M1 Max Chip May Have More Raw GPU Performance Than a PlayStation 5
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That is a suckers bet, I could very easily say lets compare Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition on both platforms and see who has better performance.
That would be dope. Bring in somebody like John carmack as well. Also, Apple could consider developing a game engine for metal on Apple silicon that scales sell from the iPhone all the way up to iPad and to m1 max and it’s future iterations on the Mac Pro. Then get a top game studio to release a killer game with it.Sounds like Apple should purchase a game developer. Since M$ got Bungie back in the day, and now Bethesda. It maybe time to fix the problem themselves.
If Apple could build logic and final cut, why not build a game engine with an editor similar to that of unreal engine 5 editor?
That would help move the process of wooing developers along.
More TF than PS5, but not a single M1 native game (except iOS games)
Edit: World of Warcraft
How many potential buyers needs AAA title to developer considered port? How many M PRO/Max need to be in circulation to happen?
This wont work, Tech companies suck at managing creatives companies. Google fired their entire Stadia staff, and abandoned studio efforts. Amazon has been throwing money on Amazon Studios for 6 yrs now. Microsoft is the only successful tech company that could do that because XBOX and Microsoft games run entirely independently. Apple Execs will meddle too much and as of now the habits of Apple has changed they work and function like a large company and less like a startup. This changed when Burberry exec joined Apple. They have lost their frugal approach, Project TITAN is in works forever, M1 is the best major path break they delivered in yrs.
And this is exactly my dilema. I have a 2012 MBP that I still use almost daily. I use it for EVERYTHING... except those odd times I want to game. I'm not a big gamer or anything, but I do like playing on occasion, which is why I got a pretty decent gaming laptop. The problem is, a 17" Alienware weighs a ton and is loud as hell.
The specs that were getting thrown around about the beast Apple was planning to release got me excited that I could end up with my dream machine. A Mac to replace my 2012 with a GPU more powerful than my Alienware that runs so much cooler.
Then I learned that Bootcamp will likely never return...
Will Rosetta 2 run Steam, or does it really not matter even if it did as the games simply wouldn't play?It wouldn't be possible for me to lose a bet on macOS Metro Exodus Enhanced edition versus PS5 Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition. The Mac can't trace rays in realtime. Which is why I asked beating the PS5 doing what, because that does matter.
Apple should make it as easy as possible for developers to utilize its platforms. Apple compared itself to a mobile 3080, showing off charts with performance per watt figures. What Apple left off the chart is that the 3080 on Windows can play far more games.
The reason why I mention Apple building an engine (that others can use) is because most people aren’t as familiar with metal. They're familiar with OpenGL or Vulkan or direct3d. Apple needs to make it as easy as possible for game developers to be attracted to its platform.
A lot of people said Apple Silicon wouldn’t work either and here we have a laptop chip in 2021 that seems primed to possibly exceed a desktop 5800x or11900k in certain tasks. Geek bench multicore (12400+ points). https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/10496766
Im glad you point out Microsoft. Xbox games work on windows. Microsoft spent the time building DirectX, and creating the ecosystem around it. Apple should do the same if it plans on ramping its GPU capabilities.
Some won’t work in part because of quirks with being translated from x86 to ARM in a virtual machine running windows on arm. That’s a lot of layers with quirks not contemplated by the original developers. Especially in the middleware: graphics libraries, probably even thread libraries as well, and possibly DRM. Native macOS support is needed.And this is exactly my dilema. I have a 2012 MBP that I still use almost daily. I use it for EVERYTHING... except those odd times I want to game. I'm not a big gamer or anything, but I do like playing on occasion, which is why I got a pretty decent gaming laptop. The problem is, a 17" Alienware weighs a ton and is loud as hell.
The specs that were getting thrown around about the beast Apple was planning to release got me excited that I could end up with my dream machine. A Mac to replace my 2012 with a GPU more powerful than my Alienware that runs so much cooler.
Then I learned that Bootcamp will likely never return...
I too have a 2012 MacBook Pro. Still alive and well. And with opencore legacy patcher, and some tweaks to bluetool (for bringing my Bluetooth back to life), it’s running the Monterey beta. Long live the unibody upgradable x86 Macs with MagSafe and more than just thunderbolt ports!
steam is implementing arm support on its own, it should have more support for m1; but it’s main design was for steam deckAnd this is exactly my dilema. I have a 2012 MBP that I still use almost daily. I use it for EVERYTHING... except those odd times I want to game. I'm not a big gamer or anything, but I do like playing on occasion, which is why I got a pretty decent gaming laptop. The problem is, a 17" Alienware weighs a ton and is loud as hell.
The specs that were getting thrown around about the beast Apple was planning to release got me excited that I could end up with my dream machine. A Mac to replace my 2012 with a GPU more powerful than my Alienware that runs so much cooler.
Then I learned that Bootcamp will likely never return...
Steam Deck is x86. Steam is implementing ARM support because they are not dumb, lol they know eventually everyone will have some ARM hardware of some sort and want to make sure they are on the ground floor for support.
Apple should work with Steam to get Proton built in to/closely integrated with Rosetta 2 so they don't need to push for M1 native games. Yes, there's a performance hit, but I am amazed at how well it works, and if they demonstrate a market for AAA games that way developers will start to look at the cost of creating native versions as well.
You have a point but it seems risky IMO. I mean look at their other creative endeavour AppleTV+ subscription, it has hardly anything to watch, agreed some really good shows exist but not nearly enough volume of content. Which is why i think Apple will suck at it. I think a great direction would be to buy Steam if Gabe the Gandalf sells.
They could clone the Unity Engine API on top of Metal, and completely cut Unity out from even Boot Camp game revenue stream.
Sure, plenty of people enjoy games. But if you have limited resources, you have to choose which market you will pursue.
Here is a link to 2020 total game revenue by category:
Global gaming revenue by platform 2032| Statista
With the almost universal adoption of smartphones and mobile internet worldwide, it is hardly a surprise that this platform is also the highest-grossing gaming platform.
www.statista.com
People spent $73.8B on mobile games, where Apple already competes. That same year, people spent $6.7B on premium PC games. Apple competes in the largest, most lucrative part of the market with the highest margin.
Now, compare that to the potential revenue of general purpose VR/AR. How much will be spent on everything, not just games, in VR/AR? Way more than $6.7B a year.
If Apple is going to choose where to spend R&D dollars, it makes more sense for them to go after the VR/AR market vs. the PC games market. This is how you run a business.
Seems silly to assume the MacBook won’t be able to perform at high teraflops considering the cpu/gpu on the PS5 are far more power hungry, with over 200w power draw recorded while gaming - so of course it’s heat sink will look like that…
In the early years of computer studies being taught at school and colleges I remember my computer teacher/lecturers pouring scorn on those of us who used to talk about gaming on the computer because to them, the reason computers were built was to help people learn and educate, to teach them the art of software programming, art, music, engineering design, languages and here was us school kids ignoring all of that and just talking about games.
I do not know what was in the minds of Jobs and Wozniak but I have a feeling gaming was not in their minds when they built the company and that premise is still alive today. I believe Apple's core belief for it's computers is that of learning and education and not gaming because gaming for a machine that has the power to do so so much more, it just seems dirty.
With that said, all this talk about the M1 chips having the capability of gaming I do not believe Apple will make dedicated or even specific gaming computers because it is not what their computers are about which is something they have stood by for decades.
Gaming is big business, especially Esports which just keeps on growing and growing and what computers do they use? Intel and AMD computers. Apple are a very very rich company which means they do not need the money that gaming could provide them but to be honest, as the technological age moves forward it is something that Apple cannot no longer ignore.
I do not know what was in the minds of Jobs and Wozniak but I have a feeling gaming was not in their minds when they built the company and that premise is still alive today. I believe Apple's core belief for it's computers is that of learning and education and not gaming because gaming for a machine that has the power to do so so much more, it just seems dirty.
With that said, all this talk about the M1 chips having the capability of gaming I do not believe Apple will make dedicated or even specific gaming computers because it is not what their computers are about which is something they have stood by for decades.
Gaming is big business, especially Esports which just keeps on growing and growing and what computers do they use? Intel and AMD computers. Apple are a very very rich company which means they do not need the money that gaming could provide them but to be honest, as the technological age moves forward it is something that Apple cannot no longer ignore.
I'm surprised that nobody has been talking about this...the issue of extending the life of existing Intel Macs for gaming or graphics programming purposes. We know that macOS still has many years of support life left, so an Intel Mac is still viable IMO.
I've just come across this post by Sonnet of their new eGPU enclosures. I think it shows there's still plenty of life in Intel Macs. The GPU Compute performance alone on a RX6900XT compared to the M1 Pro and M1 Max shown says something else...
Looking at this graph, if it were me, I would probably choose an Intel Macbook Pro and have it fitted with the Sonnet Breakaway box and a Radeon RX6900 instead of a M1 Mac. Either that or have 1 laptop of each platform.
I've just come across this post by Sonnet of their new eGPU enclosures. I think it shows there's still plenty of life in Intel Macs. The GPU Compute performance alone on a RX6900XT compared to the M1 Pro and M1 Max shown says something else...
Looking at this graph, if it were me, I would probably choose an Intel Macbook Pro and have it fitted with the Sonnet Breakaway box and a Radeon RX6900 instead of a M1 Mac. Either that or have 1 laptop of each platform.
Yea but if the wattage is lower then it produces less heat and the power supply for consoles are intergraded producing even more heat