When can we expect the first flashlight app for the Mac to be released? I can hardly wait! MAGICAL!
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Mac App Store Very Promising But With Restrictions
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
What we need for the App store model to work
Try before you buy. Must be there. Our app comes in three different flavors ranging from US$49 to $249. The size of our market, even with App store distribution, is such that we can't move much on these price points - we have spent over $4m developing the product, and need to recoup our investment (and make a profit), and with the App store potentially having hundreds of thousands of other software titles there competing for people's attention, and considering the niche nature of our software, dropping the price significantly really doesn't work.
The way it works for us now is that people download our software, fall in love with it and buy it. It is so extensive and immersive that a few screenshots will not sell a product like this at the price point we need to charge.
I think the "race to the bottom" approach that has happened on iPhone and iPad sets a dangerous precedent for desktop apps. It gives a huge incentive to develop small utility type apps instead of more fully featured applications. The platform is different, and anything that pushes us away from those high investment fully featured applications is doing both the users and developers a huge disservice.
The other thing is that we have a cross platform licensing model where if you purchase a license key, you can use it on both Mac and that other operating system
so if we had to lower prices it would cannibalize our Windows revenues.
Actually the store rules seem to imply that you can't use any form of license keys anyway, so I just don't know how it would work for our cross platform licensing model.
In many ways, I wish they had put a longer timeframe on this and had some place set up where we could ask questions about these sorts of things (I've looked on the developer forums etc but haven't found anywhere so far).
Try before you buy. Must be there. Our app comes in three different flavors ranging from US$49 to $249. The size of our market, even with App store distribution, is such that we can't move much on these price points - we have spent over $4m developing the product, and need to recoup our investment (and make a profit), and with the App store potentially having hundreds of thousands of other software titles there competing for people's attention, and considering the niche nature of our software, dropping the price significantly really doesn't work.
The way it works for us now is that people download our software, fall in love with it and buy it. It is so extensive and immersive that a few screenshots will not sell a product like this at the price point we need to charge.
I think the "race to the bottom" approach that has happened on iPhone and iPad sets a dangerous precedent for desktop apps. It gives a huge incentive to develop small utility type apps instead of more fully featured applications. The platform is different, and anything that pushes us away from those high investment fully featured applications is doing both the users and developers a huge disservice.
The other thing is that we have a cross platform licensing model where if you purchase a license key, you can use it on both Mac and that other operating system
so if we had to lower prices it would cannibalize our Windows revenues. Actually the store rules seem to imply that you can't use any form of license keys anyway, so I just don't know how it would work for our cross platform licensing model.
In many ways, I wish they had put a longer timeframe on this and had some place set up where we could ask questions about these sorts of things (I've looked on the developer forums etc but haven't found anywhere so far).
Because its not practical to do that for lots of apps that require installers. Major developers that sell pricy stuff like Adobe and MS.
Exactly ... and the barrage of borderline-useless 99-cent apps. We've got a lot to look forward to.
Positives: self-contained apps (I hate installers), no use of undocumented APIs (I love forward compatibility...ish), and perhaps some encouragement to set reasonable prices.
Cons: Exactly what you said.
That's exactly how I feel. Here's hoping Apple never restricts us user from getting Applications from other sources for our Macs.
I was thinking about all those fart apps.
In the Future someone might have to use their PC to write a program to JailBreak their Mac.
Closed systems have there place, but lets hope Jobs doesn't go that far.
Closed systems have there place, but lets hope Jobs doesn't go that far.
As of this posting, this thread's ratings are 72 positives and 72 negatives.
Dead. Even.
I'm guessing the former are users, the latter are developers?
Today's keynote was definitely more interesting than expected.
Dead. Even.
I'm guessing the former are users, the latter are developers?
Today's keynote was definitely more interesting than expected.
iOS scroll bars?
In the demo of the Mac App store, I'm sure the scroll bars were like the ones on iOS devices, I was unable to rewind the video to verify. They definitely weren't the aqua scroll bars or the itunes style ones, and they seemed to appear only when needed just like on the iPhone. If this is going to be a feature of Lion, I better ditch the broken non-scrolling Mighty Mouse before upgrading.
Mac OS 10.7 requires an Intel mac with a multi touch mouse or trackpad (should be the requirements).
Update
Image of the Lion Mac App Store: http://images.apple.com/macosx/lion/images/lion_app_store20101020.png
Image of the Snow Leopard Mac App Store: http://images.apple.com/mac/app-store/images/appstore_hero20101020.png
In the demo of the Mac App store, I'm sure the scroll bars were like the ones on iOS devices, I was unable to rewind the video to verify. They definitely weren't the aqua scroll bars or the itunes style ones, and they seemed to appear only when needed just like on the iPhone. If this is going to be a feature of Lion, I better ditch the broken non-scrolling Mighty Mouse before upgrading.
Mac OS 10.7 requires an Intel mac with a multi touch mouse or trackpad (should be the requirements).
Update
Image of the Lion Mac App Store: http://images.apple.com/macosx/lion/images/lion_app_store20101020.png
Image of the Snow Leopard Mac App Store: http://images.apple.com/mac/app-store/images/appstore_hero20101020.png
Upgrades
I am a lot more surprised that no one is talking about app upgrades. What if a current developer decide to move to the app store model. What with the previous buyer that haves serial numbers? Are they force to buy the app again just to be able to have their apps centralized in one place? That kinda goes against the concept of "all apps in the same place" from the start. What if the developer completely drop support for updates except for the ones that goes through the store? Even if I paid $60 for an app, am I going to get stuck and have to rebuy it through the app store?
This is such an important topic that everyone is forgetting. We. Are. Not. On. A. New. Platform. People needs ways to upgrade.
I am a lot more surprised that no one is talking about app upgrades. What if a current developer decide to move to the app store model. What with the previous buyer that haves serial numbers? Are they force to buy the app again just to be able to have their apps centralized in one place? That kinda goes against the concept of "all apps in the same place" from the start. What if the developer completely drop support for updates except for the ones that goes through the store? Even if I paid $60 for an app, am I going to get stuck and have to rebuy it through the app store?
This is such an important topic that everyone is forgetting. We. Are. Not. On. A. New. Platform. People needs ways to upgrade.
Uh, what are you talking about?
I've been scrolling with a mouse wheel for over a decade! I'm sure that a simple scrolling mousewheel will activate the scrollbars.
I like this development, personally.
Yes, the App Store has restrictions, but I can guarantee those restrictions won't spread to applications outside the App Store. That would be the death knell of OS X and Apple knows that very well.
It's really a good thing, I think, because just in the year I've been attending college (and during that time, become known as the "Mac guy"), I've had many people ask me, "Where can get x program for Macs?" or a more general, "Where can I download Mac software?". The App Store solves this problem very neatly.
The built-in autoupdate function is going to be extremely handy as well.
Yes, the App Store has restrictions, but I can guarantee those restrictions won't spread to applications outside the App Store. That would be the death knell of OS X and Apple knows that very well.
It's really a good thing, I think, because just in the year I've been attending college (and during that time, become known as the "Mac guy"), I've had many people ask me, "Where can get x program for Macs?" or a more general, "Where can I download Mac software?". The App Store solves this problem very neatly.
The built-in autoupdate function is going to be extremely handy as well.
A valid point, and just one reason this thing will be off to a slow start. Most devs won't switch over until they release a major new version. And who knows what you'll be able to do if you want to give owners of a prior version a discount.
Time will tell how effective this will be, and this is prob the reason they wanted to release this thing several months ahead of Lion.
I'm inclined to say it isn't going to be a huge hit but I don't know if it will be a flop or not. OS X is such a complete OS that I have a lot less 3rd party software installed these days, even on my work/development machine. Eclipse, Firefox, Snapz Pro, Aidium, and Gimp and Wireshark are the major ones. Of that list, I could see maybe Firefox and Aidium moving to the new model at some point, assuming Firefox isn't rejected for duplicating OS X functionality.
If this becomes the future of Mac OS, it will be time to pack it up and leave. For example, with this, developers could never offer a new beta or test version of a program, there could be no more open-source software, no software can be developed using cross-platform libraries and frameworks, no independent hardware devices, no root access, programs cannot be released, but instead must be submitted for blessing, etc...
On the plus side, your computer will be farting a lot more...and you might even be able to use the monitor as a flashlight.
On the plus side, your computer will be farting a lot more...and you might even be able to use the monitor as a flashlight.
Apple is basically replacing Walmart or any other big software retailer with their Mac App Store. I think whatever price you think is fair you would have to compare to what someone like Walmart would charge for selling your product for you. Except in this case, Apple is providing a much more targeted market than Walmart and others could ever hope to provide so actually Apple would deserve more.
In any case, I don't think you are going to find a retailer that only takes 5%. Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and similar retailers would laugh at you or think you were crazy. That would barely cover the credit card fees for taking the sale.
Both app store and direct sales?
I might have missed it, but did they say anywhere about whether you can offer your software for sale *both* in the app store and outside it? So they get 30% of the app store sales -- which is arguably justified by the advertising they implicitly provide, along with all the other stuff -- but you still get 100% of sales through your website or whatever?
This would also allow you to offer betas and trials for direct download, although I guess Apple would want some weird rule where your app store app would be disallowed from even referring to the beta/trial version available on your website... And they'd also presumably ban you if you tried to sell your direct-download version for 30% less... So thinking about it a bit more, it seems likely Apple might take to rejecting apps that are also sold outside the appstore...
I might have missed it, but did they say anywhere about whether you can offer your software for sale *both* in the app store and outside it? So they get 30% of the app store sales -- which is arguably justified by the advertising they implicitly provide, along with all the other stuff -- but you still get 100% of sales through your website or whatever?
This would also allow you to offer betas and trials for direct download, although I guess Apple would want some weird rule where your app store app would be disallowed from even referring to the beta/trial version available on your website... And they'd also presumably ban you if you tried to sell your direct-download version for 30% less... So thinking about it a bit more, it seems likely Apple might take to rejecting apps that are also sold outside the appstore...
Big company's such as Microsoft and VMWare, etc. don't need to distribute through the App store and give a 30% cut to Apple. Microsoft already has a zillion dollar marketing budget and e-commerce sites.
For a small dev with a website that nobody visits, and a $100 or less marketing budget, paying Apple $99/annum + 30% will very likely work out a lot better than whatever marketing/ads they could buy for $100.
Don't forget that Apple has a less than 10% market share of systems worldwide, and has to compete with PCs. If even 1 of the apps that every customer wants isn't in the App store, it would be a deal-breaker to completely lock down MacOS (unless Microsoft does it first!).
You're entitled to your opinion. Apple is offering a distribution channel. Personally I think 30% is quite competitive with other distribution channels, and it easily beats brick and mortar. I believe most developers will see increased profits due to the app store. But if you think you can do better elsewhere, go right ahead.