Mac Hater Arguments

[Horrortaxi]

if you drop a mac and a pc, it is easier to put the pc back together...

Have you actually heard somebody use that argument? If you have to give consideration to which will do better in a fall you have bigger problems than "should I get a Mac or a PC?"

and the photoshop needing 4gb of ram, i am doing stuff with it with 384mb ram

I LOVE the Photoshop blowhards who say you can't do anything without the fastest computer and gigabytes upon gigabytes of RAM. I really have to wonder what they're doing becuase the professional design and print world is running on 400-800 mhz G4s with under 1GB of RAM. It's not uncommon to find pre-G3 PowerMacs still in use. These are the computers used to design the magazine ads you see every month, the stupid messages on T shirts, the posters for the big dumb movie that's coming out next month--everything.

The blowhards are probably doing hard core stuff like red-eye reduction on the pictures from their 26 megapixel cameras that they don't know how to use properly.

The goal shouldn't be to win an argument with these people though. Just learn enough about them to recognize them and avoid them when you see them. Arguing why your Mac is better than their PC (and it is better) is pointless. Just be happy using your Mac. If you wanted to get upset over stupid things you'd just use Windows in the first place.

 

[Horrortaxi]

I posted a question on the Windows XP forums asking "Why don't you use a Mac?". I want to see some of these arguments first-hand. Sound like fun? You can follow it here: http://www.softwaretipsandtricks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=66565#post66565

Enjoy!

Daniel

I'm curious what they'll say, but a troll is a troll (even if I agree with you) so they might not say anything (which is the smart way to deal with a troll).

 

[dr bognus]

yeah I heard the if you drop a pc stuff from someone who was a website developer in the summer, he obviously didnt have much of a clue, anyway i can use photoshop on an early 01 snow ibook with 500mhz processor and 384mb ram although i dont do much but it is still pretty quick

Dr bognus

 

[norinradd]

Have you actually heard somebody use that argument? If you have to give consideration to which will do better in a fall you have bigger problems than "should I get a Mac or a PC?"



I LOVE the Photoshop blowhards who say you can't do anything without the fastest computer and gigabytes upon gigabytes of RAM. I really have to wonder what they're doing becuase the professional design and print world is running on 400-800 mhz G4s with under 1GB of RAM. It's not uncommon to find pre-G3 PowerMacs still in use. These are the computers used to design the magazine ads you see every month, the stupid messages on T shirts, the posters for the big dumb movie that's coming out next month--everything.

Thats so true!

I freelance for a major mag based in London and in the studio the machines are all sawtooths with about 256-384 ram in them, running PS 7 and Quark 3.32

Still its nice to come home and use my dual G5

 

[Mav451]

Have you actually heard somebody use that argument? If you have to give consideration to which will do better in a fall you have bigger problems than "should I get a Mac or a PC?"



I LOVE the Photoshop blowhards who say you can't do anything without the fastest computer and gigabytes upon gigabytes of RAM. I really have to wonder what they're doing becuase the professional design and print world is running on 400-800 mhz G4s with under 1GB of RAM. It's not uncommon to find pre-G3 PowerMacs still in use. These are the computers used to design the magazine ads you see every month, the stupid messages on T shirts, the posters for the big dumb movie that's coming out next month--everything.

The blowhards are probably doing hard core stuff like red-eye reduction on the pictures from their 26 megapixel cameras that they don't know how to use properly.

The goal shouldn't be to win an argument with these people though. Just learn enough about them to recognize them and avoid them when you see them. Arguing why your Mac is better than their PC (and it is better) is pointless. Just be happy using your Mac. If you wanted to get upset over stupid things you'd just use Windows in the first place.

Its true that PShop, if you aren't doing filter work, is hardly a strenuous app. My friend got away with using a 800Mhz Celeron w/ 256MB RAM (on WinME at that) up until her sophmore year in college. She didn't need a G5/Athlon64 to do Pshop. Pshop is more about your skill/talent then computing power. I could have a G5 with 2GB ram, and she would still outdo me b/c I don't know HOW to use Pshop (yet).

I keep telling myself I will learn...but it hasn't happened yet lol.

 

[ewinemiller]

the one thing that really gets me is that i bet if these people actually tried os x they would love it. unfortunatly, they, like many, have had bad experiances with the older mac OS's. I have to admit, I despise the early mac OS's. Many of these people make arguments about mac, but are reffering to experiances with early macs, that dont apply to os x. Next time i have an argument, Im going to pull out my laptop and make them try osx.,

But it doesn't always work that way. I bought the wife an ibook G4 about a year ago so she would get a little more exposure to my business. The best description would be that she tolerates it on a good day and on a bad day she's giving me an earful about that "damn Mac". For the things she does, a Windows machine works better, even though she has the same software available on both (CorelDraw 11). Making her use OSX has taken an indifferent attitude and made it bad.

Also keep in mind that some of the things I hear around here about Windows are also based on Windows 95 era experience. XP on auto update with a virus scanner on auto update works just fine, it's just not as bad as your average Mac user makes it out to be.

You may think that all Windows users are tormented souls just looking for you to show them the light, but in reality most are just fine and all you're doing is annoying them by evangelizing the Mac. I like and use Macs, there are some tasks I always do on the Mac even though I've got a PC that is easily 4x faster. However I hate the evangelizing so much that at professional gatherings I tend to avoid the Mac folks just so I don't have to hear it, because it invariably comes up. That kind of thing is why the broader tech community has such a "they are just a bunch of cultist" attitude towards Mac users.

 

[Mav451]

But it doesn't always work that way. I bought the wife an ibook G4 about a year ago so she would get a little more exposure to my business. The best description would be that she tolerates it on a good day and on a bad day she's giving me an earful about that "damn Mac". For the things she does, a Windows machine works better, even though she has the same software available on both (CorelDraw 11). Making her use OSX has taken an indifferent attitude and made it bad.

Also keep in mind that some of the things I hear around here about Windows are also based on Windows 95 era experience. XP on auto update with a virus scanner on auto update works just fine, it's just not as bad as your average Mac user makes it out to be.

You may think that all Windows users are tormented souls just looking for you to show them the light, but in reality most are just fine and all you're doing is annoying them by evangelizing the Mac. I like and use Macs, there are some tasks I always do on the Mac even though I've got a PC that is easily 4x faster. However I hate the evangelizing so much that at professional gatherings I tend to avoid the Mac folks just so I don't have to hear it, because it invariably comes up. That kind of thing is why the broader tech community has such a "they are just a bunch of cultist" attitude towards Mac users.

Those are exactly the words I would use on this. Very succinctly put.

 

[Horrortaxi]

Its true that PShop, if you aren't doing filter work, is hardly a strenuous app.

But on the other hand, if you're not using filters then why are you using Photoshop? $650 is a lot of money to spend just to crop and rotate images.

It's a demanding app, but not so demanding that the computer that can run it well has yet to be invented.

 

[johnbro23]

"Macs are for people who can't learn how to use a REAL computer."

Yea I've heard that one a ton... but is that really a bad thing? I mean all the person is doing is bashing a computer for the fact that its easy to use.

 

[Mav451]

But on the other hand, if you're not using filters then why are you using Photoshop? $650 is a lot of money to spend just to crop and rotate images.

It's a demanding app, but not so demanding that the computer that can run it well has yet to be invented.

I meant the more demanding filters, some filters are done quicker than others...

 

[Blue Velvet]

But on the other hand, if you're not using filters then why are you using Photoshop?

You may be working with A3 450ppi CMYK images with a bunch of masks, channels and layers, that's why...

Even in RGB at those sort of dimensions, many filters are not even usable without at least 512mb of RAM if not more. Particularly the distortion/liquify types.

And although much work is possible on lower-spec machines, a certain philosophical attitude towards the progess-bar rapidly sets in. Or a fondness for coffee breaks...

Don't anyone try and tell me I was just as productive or creative on my old beige G3 as opposed to the dual G5...

 

[Horrortaxi]

And although much work is possible on lower-spec machines, a certain philosophical attitude towards the progess-bar rapidly sets in. Or a fondness for coffee breaks...

If you're paid hourly and have a certain mindset then a 9600 and a ball mouse might be welcomed on the job. If you're not waiting for the 9600 to apply a filter then you're cleaining your mouse. The end result is that you don't have to do very much work--and you can bitch about how much better you'd be on a G5. It's really a win-win situation.

 

[Blue Velvet]

If you're paid hourly and have a certain mindset then a 9600 and a ball mouse might be welcomed on the job. If you're not waiting for the 9600 to apply a filter then you're cleaining your mouse. The end result is that you don't have to do very much work--and you can bitch about how much better you'd be on a G5. It's really a win-win situation.

Ha-ha!
Paid hourly: those were the days...

When you're just a salary–(wo)man, you just want to churn through the stuff, especially if you're distilling that horror-job at the same time.

Once you get up to a certain level of machine it becomes subjective. My dual 1.4G4 at home felt terrifically fast until the G5s arrived at work...

Anyway, enough. I don't want to hijack this thread 'cos it's far more entertaining talking about those pesky PC-loving trolls, bless 'em!

 

[dejo]

Photoshop is available for Windows, too. And it has the same hunger for RAM as its Mac counterpart. So the point of contention around this would be...?

 

[Counterfit]

I'm in grade 9 and recently we had to do a powerpoint presentation in our classes. I did it in keynote and brought my pb in to show it. I head two kids in my class talking about my pb and one said "Wow thats such a nice computer but its a mac so it sucks." he went on and some of the reasons 'macs suck' are because they dont work with any "common programs" and crash all the time. I just laughed.

Something like that happened to me last year. I was in "Survey of Mechanical Engineering" (or some such rather pointless class), and near the end of the semester, we had to do a presentation on some subject (it was pretty pointless, so I've already forgotten). Anyways, I asked the guy who made it (in PowerPoint) to send it to me when he was done so I could snazz it up in Keynote. Class-time comes the next day (8AM, ugh), and someone else in the class has his laptop with him. Of course, it's a blue plastic HP. He brings it up, and tries to hook it up to the projector, 5 minutes on, and it still doesn't work. So he burns a CD, and uses the laptop the professor had there (some sort of Thinkpad, probably a few years old). My group is the last to go. I bring my PowerBook up, and he says "A Mac?! You didn't want a real computer?" (jokingly of course). I just rolled my eyes, plugged into the projector, and used my T68i as a remote.

 

[Timelessblur]

you have to remeber that a lot of people only impression on a mac are from the one from tehre elementry school and good greif those things where better as a boat anchor than a computer.

Our windows 95 computer at the time where more stable more reible could do more stuff and faster than the ones at school.

but at the same token I hear and read a lot of arguemtns from mac users who only impression of windows is comparing a mac to a windows 95 computer and really poor aguments and mass blown out of propotoin agruements.

Favorit one I heard from a grown man "On OSX I can zoom on on a single part of a screen (I think that pretty cool. Useless but cool) and when playing a movie I can zoom in with out degreeing the movie file you cannot do that on a windows computer it will look bad" Mind you you cannt do that on a XP unless you have a little add in program but it more of gimic than anything else.
I sitting there thinking umm yeah right you have the same problems as you do when you blow something up full screen you are just making the pixial bigger and if the file it self does not have the deteal in it to handle being look at close it well degree in quility. I choose to keep my trap shut because it was clear he had no clue what he was talking about and just another clueless mac head who thinks he knows about computers while knowing next ot nougthign at all.

I hate hearing Mac Zealots state to a windows user who computer is having a problem "Get a mac and you will never have those problems" But they offer no really help and just poke fun at the them. I go over there to help and I stated to them if you not going to offer any real help or you dont know how to help Shut up and get out. if they say it again it goes to forcing them out. Of course I one of mac user who said that have a problem with there mac (hardware failure and a software glight) they come to the computer guy for help (me) I respond to them "I though you had a mac and they dont have problems" I just kept at that for about 20 mins making a point. They got pretty steamed about it. Did go look at it really quickly looked noticed the problem told them how to fix the hardware and just uninstall and reinstall the software and lefts. They never again used said Get a mac after that reliezing that problems happen to everyone and he knew everytime he did it I would point out his problem and ruin all his creitblity.

 

[killuminati]

I read this one in a forum. Im not sure but I think he was trying to diss mac users

"People who own macs are usually cleverer, or have beards and camp in the woods at weekends."

 

[Horrortaxi]

I read this one in a forum. Im not sure but I think he was trying to diss mac users

"People who own macs are usually cleverer, or have beards and camp in the woods at weekends."

Yeah, calling somebody "clever" is fighting words back in the old country. It's interesting what some people think will hurt your feelings--it reveals a lot about them.

I'd much rather be a smartass than a dumbass.

 

[killuminati]

I'd much rather be a smartass than a dumbass.

I second that

 

[nbs2]

why i didn't switch

I was just thinking about why I didn't swtich from Windows for so long. I think a lot of it has to do with application in schools. Yeah I used it in school, but either it was rahter expensive or a IIe. I remember when the iMac came out, it was touted as a machine to surf the internet - something that I figured was only part of what I needed and robust enough. My primary argument against the Mac while I was doing my undergrad was what happens in a crash. I always figured a Mac would "fix itself" when there was an error, while Windows would let you know the error and you could go about debugging whatever you needed to. My main reason for switching? I realized I was not as capable at software repairs as I thought myself to be, my roommate's Mac didn't fix itself when it crashed - it just didn't crash, and I was sickof having so many opportunities to debug my computer.

For some windows users (I don't speak for all), I think the fact that the machine feels well built makes the machine feel expensive, and the price sort of validates that. They assume that the Mac line is what rich people can afford. It's sort of like luxury cars for the rich - I can't imagine seeing <famous movie actor> on the side of the road trying to figure out why his/her 1984 Accord just died. Really, the best way for people to learn about this option is to spend time with a user and see how much easier life is and how nice the operating system is. A bit of fun cajoling is ok, but it sould be in jest, not mean spirited. It's one thing for me to tell my fiance "Hmm....I can't remember my PB doing that" when her Toshiba crashes or her work computer develops a pop-up problem that ad-aware can't fix, it would be another for me to insult her....just a thought

I don't mean to steer control of the thread, but I would like to hear other personal mac hater reasoning from when people switched a little more than the usual comments that users hear. It's kind of like religion (which I'm not getting into) and politics (same) - hearing the usual argument from outsiders who don't want to change is usually not as interesting as hearing "before thoughts" from those who changed.

 

[carpet]

Me too

"Macs are toys." Remember toys are fun, and people call Ferrari but honda arn't ( See a link between the two. ). And Ferrari faster.

What?

 

[ClarkeB]

I posted a question on the Windows XP forums asking "Why don't you use a Mac?". I want to see some of these arguments first-hand. Sound like fun? You can follow it here: http://www.softwaretipsandtricks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=66565#post66565

Enjoy!

Daniel

I just looked at the main page of that forum and out of 13 titles on the main page, 6 had the word problem, error, or crash in them. Windooooooze.

Not really an argument but I had a computer class for a semester and like on the first day the teacher asked if anyone used Macs (wicked Windoze dependent) and I raised my hand and said something like "Well I use this (pointing to computer) children's OS now, but my new Mac is on the way! The future is here!" and he was like, sarcastically "Good luck with that" and I was like "Good like with these". Anyway, every single class I had after that one or more (sometimes more than half of the 30 computers) computers had crashed and he would be fixing them.

We also had to write a paper about what computer we would want w/ what stuff etc. So...I wrote mine about a dual 2.5 PowerMac G5 w/ dual 30" Cinema Displays...8GB RAM...dual 250 gig hds..etc. And like I had a whole paragraph about how OS X is the (or more appropriately...the) most stable, most user-friendly, most powerful OS on the market.

I got a 90 on it

 

[chanoc]

All this Mac bashing are the results of an uneducated society, with a 95% illiteracy in science, reason and logic. Logic should be a required class - not an elective- in high school and college.

Sad to hear these logical fallacies in institutes of higher education.

My favorite: "You better learn to use a PC because that is what you will use on the job."

Rebuttal: My first office job used Macs running OS-X.

 

[Timelessblur]

you know you can say the same thing about some of the Mac users who are windows bashes. To make it worse for them a lot of the basher are apple Zealots who think they understand computer windows and computer really well but in reality they dont understand jack.

I am sorry but I dont think logic should be a required class. Mainly because the people who teach it bother me and they go about proving things that are impossible with logic. By the I doing then the number is as high as 95% to much of hte country is collage educated and I know for a fact any of them that are doctors or engineers have to have a strong grasph of sciences. (engineers also have a strong grapsh of math)

Logic is a worthless class that I will never have to take. The people who every really take that class are people who dont understand math and sciences. They take it and it counts for there math creited. The menumal science class is a joke.

 

[Horrortaxi]

Just for the record, I was simultaneously a Windows user and basher. My hatred for the platform is based on years of experience. They earned my contempt.

Logic--I enrolled in that class thinking that logic=common sense. I was just a little bit wrong. It's not a useless class, but the problem is that it's really hard to find somebody who can teach it well--just like math. Take something real, make it abstract, use a lot of jargon, and act superior when talking about it. The fewer students who understand you the better. Luckily debate fills the same requirement in many universities.