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Mac Hater Arguments

in defense...

I feel the need to defend *some* (but not all) of the ignorant Windows users here and the anti-Mac arguments. I've been a Windows user since 1993, but I have decided to make the switch and am saving up for an iBook. I used to be duped by some of these arguments, but I got myself educated and now am willing to try a Mac. Anyway...

Price: Let's face it, Macs DO cost more than PCs. Alot of people just can't afford the quality that comes with a Mac.

Crashing: I haven't used a Mac since 1995 (my junior high computer lab had the old old old school ones) but it crashed all the time. Stupid bomb. And if every version of the OS has been schytee until OSX, there's going to be a perception, no matter how innacurate, that Macs are all schytee. Look at Star Trek: Enterprise. It's a decent show now, but it sucked for 2 years and as a consequence has lost an audience and has been cancelled. After 10 years of crappy products, it can be hard to convince people again.

Windoze iz better mofo!!!111@!: 90% of computer users don't know too much. They go with what's there, and it's almost ALL windows. Go into a computer store, it's Windows. Go to a computer website, and it's like "We reccomed Windows XP!" Most people are just gonna say "Well, Windows has gotta be good and Macs must suck, if they're still around." Apple needs a greater presence.

The Ghz argument: For a couple years I wondered wtf was with slower processor speeds. I was, I admit, duped by that. And I'm not great with computers, but I know a bit more than the average computer user. I think it is a serious marketing problem that Apple has to overcome. It sucks, and Macs aren't slower, but to the average Joe, that's what they see. Not everyone can just go and try out a Mac to see that Macs are indeed faster and better.

Mac Mini USB: I have to admit, I really don't like the # of USB ports. They should've dropped at least 4 in there. People like my Dad only have old school keyboards and mice that aren't even USB. If the point of the Mini is to convert people, there should have been more USB ports, or even old school keyboard and mouse ports. And yes, I do realize this would have affected price, etc. But how many people will buy it, then have to get a new keyboard and mouse? Then if they don't get a kb w/ USB ports in it, they need to get a USB hub. Phew. It gets to be a pain. I'll just stick with Windows. All hail Dark Overload Gates! I think you see my point.

Apples not compatible with Windows: Millions of people have Windows, and have paid for software for Windows. They can't afford to pay the money for a new Mac (even though it will be better than their PC) and then have to drop cash for new software. Obviously there's no way for Apple to fix this, unless they had some program where people can send in their Windows software, and get equivalent Mac software, or a discount or something. That would actually be a good idea. Hmm. Listening, Steve?

That's all I got now. Remember, I am preparing to make the Switch. I want a Mac, you all probable have them. This whole problem, and it is a problem for Apple, is that most people don't know too much. Apple needs ways to deal with this, without compromising the quality that has made Macs superior to Windows. Since all Mac users are "arty farty" and creative, they should be able to do it! And the Mini is a good start, I think. Once I get my iBook (by summer, before I graduate uni) I'm gonna get my Dad converted and get him to buy a Mac Mini.

Cheers!

Sean
 
Price: Let's face it, Macs DO cost more than PCs.
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Oh really? How so? If you compare a dual processor G5 to a $399 Gateway, maybe. Macs do not cost more than PC's. PC's, while around the same starting price, will eventually cost more with antivirus subscriptions and the like. When you compare a Mac and a PC and close to the same performance level, the PC will be more expensive.

Daniel
 
dsharits said:
Oh really? How so? If you compare a dual processor G5 to a $399 Gateway, maybe. Macs do not cost more than PC's. PC's, while around the same starting price, will eventually cost more with antivirus subscriptions and the like. When you compare a Mac and a PC and close to the same performance level, the PC will be more expensive.

Daniel
Click to expand...
Sticker prices are more expensive. I'm looking at this from the point of view of the average computer user, who has no classes in computers, no degree, just wants a computer for email and porn. He or she doesn't care about performance level. They see numbers: bigger Ghz is good, bigger price is bad. I agree that Macs are superior; after 12 years of Windows believe me, I know. But to counter these anti-Mac arguments, and even expand Apple's market share, we need to see it how Joe Sixpack sees it.
 
generationxwing said:
Apples not compatible with Windows: Millions of people have Windows, and have paid for software for Windows.
Click to expand...

Excellent post but was wondering about this point.

How many consumers have bought a lot of programs for their PCs these days? If most people just use their PCs for surfing web and checking mail (free software) and writing their CV (any word processor), then although your point certainly holds true for a proportion of users, I'd think there's a considerable percentage who wouldn't have to spend much at all.

When I switched, I lost my copies of Word (came with PC and needed updating anyhow), Paint Shop Pro (was considering Elements anyhow), a few games and my AV/internet security software. Most other programs I ran on it were freeware/low fee shareware apps which I've found free/low fee alternatives for on the Mac.
 
Applespider said:
Excellent post but was wondering about this point.

How many consumers have bought a lot of programs for their PCs these days? If most people just use their PCs for surfing web and checking mail (free software) and writing their CV (any word processor), then although your point certainly holds true for a proportion of users, I'd think there's a considerable percentage who wouldn't have to spend much at all.

When I switched, I lost my copies of Word (came with PC and needed updating anyhow), Paint Shop Pro (was considering Elements anyhow), a few games and my AV/internet security software. Most other programs I ran on it were freeware/low fee shareware apps which I've found free/low fee alternatives for on the Mac.
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If my millions, he was talking about Adobe/MS Office kind of suites, then I'm sure the corporations could easily make a deal to just "switch" to the Mac version. On the otherhand, "switching" on the personal level may not be so easy.
 
Mav451 said:
If my millions, he was talking about Adobe/MS Office kind of suites, then I'm sure the corporations could easily make a deal to just "switch" to the Mac version. On the otherhand, "switching" on the personal level may not be so easy.
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Adobe already do. They will switch your Windows software to Mac software - although there are some restrictions regarding versions of the software
 
Ha! Beat this one!

This comes from my brother-in-law, who is a history teacher, debate coach, and one of the smartest people I know.

"Microsoft owns Apple." He is pretty sure that he read in an article somewhere that MS bought Apple and is now making their OS. I told him that MS had once had some Apple shares, but no longer held them. He said that wasn't it. He is sure MS is making OSX. I told him to find that article and send it to me. Needless to say, I have yet to see that article.
 
"Microsoft owns Apple."
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, 'cause that's even possible. Why then do Apple and Microsoft always oppose each other, why isn't Windows better, and why haven't we heard about it? Wow, some people...

Daniel
 
Balin64 said:
Man... You and your kind never rest! Most of my aquintances and friends who are Christians are extremely unforgiving and judgemental: too bad, really. No: george w may use a Mac (shudder to think) but most evangelical Christians I know are married to Windows becasue they often adopt social norms: buy expensive-gas-guzzing cars, get in debt, use a computer just as ar work: Windows. I respect your mac loyalty, but Christians are Windows users... they are sheep after all!

Your other points are right on; you make us proud!
Click to expand...

Wow Adolf.. that wasn't unbiased, judgemental, or completely rude. Thats like saying all linux users are Muslim, unix users are Hindu, and OSX users are rich Jews.....
 
saunders45 said:
Wow Adolf.. that wasn't unbiased, judgemental, or completely rude. Thats like saying all linux users are Muslim, unix users are Hindu, and OSX users are rich Jews.....
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Stop!


By using Adolf Hitler's name you have invoked Godwin's Law.


:D


p.s. It may be poor form to even bring it up. I don't mind breaking this law myself as I frankly, don't give a damn, my dear...
 
Blue Velvet said:
Stop!


By using Adolf Hitler's name you have invoked Godwin's Law.


:D


p.s. It may be poor form to even bring it up. I don't mind breaking this law myself as I frankly, don't give a damn, my dear...
Click to expand...

Blue - thanks for posting that, it was a great read. So, if you lose for invoking Godwin's Law, and Saunders loses for invoking Hitler, what do I win???
 
Horrortaxi said:
One man's insightful comment is another man's flamebait.
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Yeah, I wasn't going to go there. That sheep quote could be interpreted in two ways, and I smile at the first way, but I'm not sure that's the one he meant.

I'm sorry if that poster was earnest in saying "Most of my aquintances and friends who are Christians are extremely unforgiving and judgemental". I'm sorry some of us are like that (whatever religion). I'm sure that's not a personal attack on me, because I'm not like that at all :D

Anyway, card-carrying Christian though I may be, there is a time and a place for proselytization, and now's not the time... oh wait, yes it is, we're talking about switching to Macs ;)
 
I'll address Sean's points and give some of my thoughts, but because I'm lazy I won't use the quoting feature, I'll just write using the same categories as he did.

Price: Yes, higher perceived sticker price, though in the end if you do a value comparison, the Mac usually ends up being on top. Also don't forget the higher resale value of Macs. Here in Ottawa we have a thriving Usenet community for selling computer goods, so it's very easy to see what machines are worth. Today I saw people selling Pentium II 233 machines, complete minitowers, for $15. Someone posted his original bondi iMac for $75, and it sold practically instantly. He said to me later, "I had no idea it was worth much more than that!" Someone else was selling a 350 MHz iMac for $350, and a 450 MHz PowerMac G4 (AGP Graphics) sold for $450. An equivalent spec'ed PC tower probably resells for $150 or less.

Someone posted an 867 MHz TiBook and sold it for $1400. Crazy.

(Canadian dollars.)

To the person who retorted "if you compare a dual processor G5 to a $399 Gateway, maybe" - well, that's exactly what people are doing. People see $399 Gateway, then they go to Apple and see $2000 computers, or $1500 computers. It's the PowerMac G5 towers that everyone's got their eye on, people tend not to notice the eMac, for example.

Crashing:
Agreed. People need to hear about OS X and how great it is, in particular how much better it is than older Mac OS's.

"Apple needs a greater presence" -- absolutely! Just look at the success of the iPod and iTunes. You'd think if the Macs were advertised as well as that, they'd sell better too. (It's been a LONG time since I saw ads on TV or in magazines for Apple products.)

The Ghz argument:
We're hitting a wall now that PCs are "stuck" not moving far past where they are now, and machines are so ridiculously fast now anyway, nobody cares. It'd be like car manufacturers trying to sell you on the fact that the new model Ford can go 800 mph while the new Toyota can only do 450. When nobody needs to go that fast anyway, nobody really cares anymore.

Apples not compatible with Windows: Millions of people have Windows, and have paid for software for Windows.

I like the trade in idea, I wonder if individual manufacturors couldn't be convinced to do this. Send Microsoft your old copy of Office for Windows, get a huge discount on Office:Mac. Some programs came with both Mac and PC versions on the same CD, so you might actually already have it.

As for the idea of millions of people having paid for Windows software -- yes, of course, but I wonder if there's a bigger hidden number of people who have NOT paid for their software for Windows -- who pirate off friends, work, BitTorrent, etc... if they switch to Macs, where are they going to get their WarEZ from?
 
My two cents

Price.

Price.

And oh yeah,

Price.

Many people just think pc's are a better bang for the buck. I'm not saying it's a valid argument, I'm just saying people look blindly and ignorantly at the price vs. features. On paper it looks like they are getting a lot more for their money with a cheap-ass Gateway compared to a comparible (again, on paper) mac.

Of course we all know that's not true, but it can be tough to convince people of that.
 
crap....

Blue Velvet said:
Stop!


By using Adolf Hitler's name you have invoked Godwin's Law.


:D


p.s. It may be poor form to even bring it up. I don't mind breaking this law myself as I frankly, don't give a damn, my dear...
Click to expand...



i knew i should have said Himmler or Goering...
 
"MSN sucks on the mac and thats all i use my computer for"

they had a 3.4GHz EE dell with a radeon 9800 pro and akll they used it for is msn and solitare :mad:
 
Hector said:
"MSN sucks on the mac and thats all i use my computer for"

they had a 3.4GHz EE dell with a radeon 9800 pro and akll they used it for is msn and solitare :mad:
Click to expand...

:p

I have a feeling that most people with mac's acually use their comp to the full extent but as you said the wintel people use 1/100000 of their Pee Cee :confused:
 
Applespider said:
Adobe already do. They will switch your Windows software to Mac software - although there are some restrictions regarding versions of the software
Click to expand...
I was peasantly surprised when I recently bought Macromedia Studio MX2004 and found out that It came with both the windows and mac installer.
 
DanTekGeek said:
Im working on a project....
Im compiling a list of the most common blind faced arguments that mac haters make, and specific facts and statistics that we can rebut with.
Click to expand...

Personally I tire of supporting "the cause", stopped quite some time ago. My tact is different now... more like cutting off any comments or attempts to engage with one simple statement. For instance, a few weeks ago I actually let a salesman in. He was from a company that wanted to latch on to some of our dough. He was there for the networking portion of my plans, but had an eye on the rest of my operation. When I told him that we're going to do some capital purchases in 1.5 years (I have one million bucks to spend), he saw an opening. He wanted to sell me PC's of course. Lots of them. I told him "thank you but we are Mac-based in total". He then said he didn't want to get into a philosophical debate with me. That was MY opening. Here's what I said to him almost verbatim: "It's not a philosophical difference, it's about productivity, total cost of ownership and security. It is certainly not about fitting in to some misguided PC mantra. Further, folks who come in here offering to "change us" are not thinking of our needs, but of their bottom line."
The conversation broke down further afer that.
Later that day I called another vendor.
 
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