Mac Mini End Of Life?

[shikimo]

They say great things come in small packages, but that's a rumor spread mostly by people with small packages.

That's funny.

I would also be curious as to where you have seen sales data on the Mini? I have never seen it broken out from Apple's gross sales, but since it uses the same parts (for the most part) as the MacBook, any sales are likely a bonus to Apple.

About 400 posts ago in this thread we had a little brawl about this, and the conclusion was that neither the pro- or anti- mini camps could provide a single piece of reliable evidence regarding mini sales figures. People tend to just say "but it sells so well so..." or "they're not even selling well so..." to make a point (myself included, before I got called on it and did some real research), but unless there's new info somewhere I think it's still impossible to say.

 

[rdowns]

This is how Apple (publicly) breaks out its sales (pic from quarterly reports). We have no idea how well or poorly the mini sells or any other individual line for that matter. We may know that desktop sales increased by x units but we have no idea whether the increase was iMacs, minis or Mac Pros, all of the above or some of the above. HTH

 

[maccompaq]

Sorry that was not high res I'm watching it now in hi res full screen! still no stutter.

The reason I asked was that there is a screen that appears on ABC TV that indicates you must have a fast broadband connection, a dual core processor, 128GB video RAM and at least 1 GB RAM.
One of my computers has an Athlon 64 single core 2.41 Ghz processor with an Integrated GPU using 128MB of the total System RAM of 1 GB. It runs the TV show full screen just fine, but with a High Def TV show, the video stutters and gives jerky still frames. On the other hand, my laptop with an Intel Core 2 Duo with a dedicated GPU having it's own video RAM of 128 MB and 2 GB System RAM shows the video without a problem.

So I was wondering if the Athlon problem is the single core, the Integrated GPU or the 1 GB RAM.

The Mini has an Integrated GPU using only 64 MB of System RAM which is less than the recommended amount. So I am writing to confirm that you did indeed watch High Definition TV. Thanks for checking.

 

[dwl017]

The reason I asked was that there is a screen that appears on ABC TV that indicates you must have a fast broadband connection, a dual core processor, 128GB video RAM and at least 1 GB RAM.
One of my computers has an Athlon 64 single core 2.41 Ghz processor with an Integrated GPU using 128MB of the total System RAM of 1 GB. It runs the TV show full screen just fine, but with a High Def TV show, the video stutters and gives jerky still frames. On the other hand, my laptop with an Intel Core 2 Duo with a dedicated GPU having it's own video RAM of 128 MB and 2 GB System RAM shows the video without a problem.

So I was wondering if the Athlon problem is the single core, the Integrated GPU or the 1 GB RAM.

The Mini has an Integrated GPU using only 64 MB of System RAM which is less than the recommended amount. So I am writing to confirm that you did indeed watch High Definition TV. Thanks for checking.

Good morning

Yes full screen high res with no stutter or problems.

 

[maccompaq]

Good morning

Yes full screen high res with no stutter or problems.

Thanks for doing the test. From your results, I am convinced that a duo core processor is required to watch High Def video. However, I cannot see much difference in the video quality using HD.

Your results shows that the Mac Mini is indeed a powerhouse in a tiny package.

Are you using Photoshop CS under Rosetta? If so, what is your opinion of the speed?

 

[houttbe]

The 1.83 GHz mini now is # 11 and the 2.0 GHz is at 49 of Amazon's computer hardware bestselling list, creditable performances in line whith how the iMacs are doing.

That's funny.



About 400 posts ago in this thread we had a little brawl about this, and the conclusion was that neither the pro- or anti- mini camps could provide a single piece of reliable evidence regarding mini sales figures. People tend to just say "but it sells so well so..." or "they're not even selling well so..." to make a point (myself included, before I got called on it and did some real research), but unless there's new info somewhere I think it's still impossible to say.

 

[shikimo]

The 1.83 GHz mini now is # 11 and the 2.0 GHz is at 49 of Amazon's computer hardware bestselling list, creditable performances in line whith how the iMacs are doing.

As difficult as it is to read stats like that, cool that you dug it up; it's as or more useful than anything else we have. We can at least now say that Minis are doing OK amongst the amazon crowd, which ain't no small thing...

 

[twoodcc]

i hope the mini stays....but it does need a refresh

 

[maccompaq]

i hope the mini stays....but it does need a refresh

Most probably the Mini will get a Santa Rosa update if nothing else.

 

[ubow]

One thing everyone is forgetting (or maybe didn't know) about the Mac Mini is it's broad versatility. Apple has no other computer that can:
• be mounted in a car and be used for GPS, play DVDs, music, games - sure, the iPod can, but not full-featured versions.
• be tucked away in a a/v components cabinet and integrated with your home theatre with the finesse the Mini can. iTV is still too immature.
• the Mini is a great computer to run x10 systems in a home controlling lights, air, heat, electronic locks, exterior cameras, alarms, irrigation, etc. With remote control, you can monitor the Mini from your office desktop computer or your laptop miles away.

What I am afraid of is, people will realize the potential of the Mini after its demise and it will be too late - just like the Cube and the Mac SE. So, unless Apple is planning a replacement, we need to keep the Mini alive. We also need to bombard Apple with letters urging them to do so with suggestions on what we can do with it!

"It may be small, but give me a chance to show you what I can do with it. It can be huge!"

 

[Clive At Five]

One thing everyone is forgetting (or maybe didn't know) about the Mac Mini is it's broad versatility. Apple has no other computer that can:
• be mounted in a car and be used for GPS, play DVDs, music, games - sure, the iPod can, but not full-featured versions.
• be tucked away in a a/v components cabinet and integrated with your home theatre with the finesse the Mini can. iTV is still too immature.
• the Mini is a great computer to run x10 systems in a home controlling lights, air, heat, electronic locks, exterior cameras, alarms, irrigation, etc. With remote control, you can monitor the Mini from your office desktop computer or your laptop miles away.

What I am afraid of is, people will realize the potential of the Mini after its demise and it will be too late - just like the Cube and the Mac SE. So, unless Apple is planning a replacement, we need to keep the Mini alive. We also need to bombard Apple with letters urging them to do so with suggestions on what we can do with it!

"It may be small, but give me a chance to show you what I can do with it. It can be huge!"

Congrats on your first post.

I agree with you that the Mac Mini has a lot of versatility, and for low-demand tasks (Front Row console, i.e.) a lot of agility. The Mini, I feel, trumps the TV in (almost) every way (the Mini can't easily grab media off of other computers via Front Row). Unfortunately, the cool applications you suggested are extremely low on Apple's priority list. Apple certainly did not have them in mind when they designed the Mini, as they are definitely niche markets... something Apple avoids like the plague (which is evidenced by their lack of a mid-range tower).

It's hard to tell how much of a priority the Mini is to Apple without seeing more specific Sales & Margin data.

At the same time, I think Apple is being way too paranoid about having a tidy product line. There are way too many people interested in Macs and there are a lot more roles that their computers need to fill. I see an effective desktop line-up as being as such:

(*optional and probably not appropriate just yet) iMac Mini (users who don't need much power, don't need a honking display, and just want the simplicity of an AIO).
iMac (users who still want the simplicity of an AIO, but with a little more power, and a larger display).
Mac Mini (headless, and comparable, performance-wise, with the iMac Mini/iMac; same as today.)
"xMac" (headless, powered inbetween today's iMac and Mac Pro.
Mac Pro (professional machine)

I really think that Apple could profit pretty well in the Tower business but there is so much hesitation to expand. This isn't the Apple of 1994, with a scattered and confusing product line handful of customers. Macs are in, and more people than ever want to switch. Apple just doesn't always have the right model for them.

-Clive

 

[ubow]

Thanks, Clive At Five. The Mini has incredible versatility. There are a number of cars out there with Minis installed under the dash or under a seat. In fact, in my dash, there is a space right behind the steering wheel there is a space just big enough for a mini and a GPS antenna under the dash skin. You would never know it was there! Put a 7" screen behind the visor, or, there is a space just above the glove box and the air bag - recessed so you can't see it easily outside, and this car is all set. It was as if this car was designed for this set up.

 

[saltyzoo]

Thanks, Clive At Five. The Mini has incredible versatility. There are a number of cars out there with Minis installed under the dash or under a seat. In fact, in my dash, there is a space right behind the steering wheel there is a space just big enough for a mini and a GPS antenna under the dash skin. You would never know it was there! Put a 7" screen behind the visor, or, there is a space just above the glove box and the air bag - recessed so you can't see it easily outside, and this car is all set. It was as if this car was designed for this set up.

Do you boot the thing every time you start the car, or drain the battery in sleep mode when the ignition is off?

 

[bobcb]

Congrats on your first post.

I agree with you that the Mac Mini has a lot of versatility, and for low-demand tasks (Front Row console, i.e.) a lot of agility. The Mini, I feel, trumps the TV in (almost) every way (the Mini can't easily grab media off of other computers via Front Row). Unfortunately, the cool applications you suggested are extremely low on Apple's priority list. Apple certainly did not have them in mind when they designed the Mini, as they are definitely niche markets... something Apple avoids like the plague (which is evidenced by their lack of a mid-range tower).


-Clive

First I have to disagree with the whole "low-demand" assertion as the mini handles anything short of the pro apps pretty well, and just as well as the MacBook and nips at the heels of the last gen iMacs in everything but games. So these constant assertions that the mini is low end is also a condemnation of Apple's most popular seller, the MacBook line. Having owned 3 versions of the mini and being an avid iLife fan, I can say that the mini fulfills it's role quite well.

I'd agree with the idea that Apple doesn't sell anything that isn't a money maker, and the mini is just that. It shares a lot of components with the MacBooks and the engineering is now a sunk cost after this many years. This product is profitable, so it doesn't necessarily have to sell is massive numbers to justify it's existence.

Additionally, while they may not have designed the mini with those niche markets in mind, it is safe to say Apple is quite aware of them. See the Big Ideas on the bottom right side of that page. The mini also shows up in the media quite often and has been spotted on T.V. shows such as Heroes and Law & Order:SVU very recently.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support that the mini, or something very similar will be in Apple's line up for a while. I'd love to see something new at MacWorld, but short of a consumer tower I don't think the mini (or some level of re-design) is going away any time soon. I know everyone wants to predict the demise of the mini because they are convinced it will pave the way for either a consumer tower or a headless iMac, either of which would definitely interest me, but who knows when we will really see either, if ever?

In the interim, the mini fits the role it was designed for rather well and there is something wrong with the market place when a dual core system packed in a tiny and attractive enclosure running the most usable Unix-based OS in the world and selling for less than $1000 gets typecast as "low-demand" or underpowered.

 

[Brandonnn]

Having owned 3 versions of the mini and being an avid iLife fan, I can say that the mini fulfills it's role quite well.

I am getting ready to purchase mini myself soon. Having 3 version of the minis bob, is there anything you would advice or recommned to purchase acessories or upgrades? Thanks!

 

[Decrepit]

I am getting ready to purchase mini myself soon. Having 3 version of the minis bob, is there anything you would advice or recommned to purchase acessories or upgrades? Thanks!

I'm not Bob, but a very nice Mini accessory has been the Belkin USB/Firewire hub that sits under the Mini. I wish it were the same color, but it's still fine.

I bought the Logitech QuickCam UltraVision SE so I can use Skype/iChat video chat. It was expensive, but it works nicely.

The last accessory I'd consider would be an external HDD. I use an external HDD as my boot drive. This way I was able to get a very fast boot drive, and I use the internal Mini HDD for Time Machine. So if my external HDD dies, I plug in a new one and retrieve my data from Time Machine. If the Time Machine dies, it sucks, but my data is still ok on the external drive.

 

[bobcb]

I am getting ready to purchase mini myself soon. Having 3 version of the minis bob, is there anything you would advice or recommned to purchase acessories or upgrades? Thanks!

Depends on what you are doing with it; if you think you'll be doing a lot of video editing or large PhotoShop files 2GB RAM is useful. If you think you'll get into FinalCut Express then a fast external drive for scratch is nice. Otherwise just a small USB drive (80-120GB should be more than enough) would be nice for Time Machine.

 

[Clive At Five]

First I have to disagree with the whole "low-demand" assertion as the mini handles anything short of the pro apps pretty well...

No no, do not misquote me. I said for low demand tasks, the mini has a lot of agility... not that it was a low-end unit. It is certainly capable of performing higher-end tasks - a little FCE here and little Garage Band there, the occasional Photoshop tinkering, perhaps - but it is neither, by any means, a high-end device. In fact I'd say it's Mid-to-low/mid-end. What can I say? It DOES have a Core 2 Duo... mobile.

You said yourself you've had 3. Is that because the earliers ones "expired" (per se) when it came to higher-end tasks?

For "xMac" folks, the Mini is the choice to make, because it WILL do those higher-end tasks, but unfortunately only for a limited amount of time, as newer software will very quickly out-pace it. This is the shortcoming of a non-upgradeable unit, packed with mobile components. Awesome for a couple years, then grudgingly slow afterwards.

The mini has its place and is a great PC for some uses, but it is nowhere near a complete solution for anyone who wants a long-term computer, or does a lot of higher-end work. Not that I'd recommend a Mac Pro because I wouldn't. Too damn much. Too much power. Too much money.

-Clive

 

[bobcb]

No no, do not misquote me. I said for low demand tasks, the mini has a lot of agility... not that it was a low-end unit. It is certainly capable of performing higher-end tasks - a little FCE here and little Garage Band there, the occasional Photoshop tinkering, perhaps - but it is neither, by any means, a high-end device. In fact I'd say it's Mid-to-low/mid-end. What can I say? It DOES have a Core 2 Duo... mobile.

You said yourself you've had 3. Is that because the earliers ones "expired" (per se) when it came to higher-end tasks?

For "xMac" folks, the Mini is the choice to make, because it WILL do those higher-end tasks, but unfortunately only for a limited amount of time, as newer software will very quickly out-pace it. This is the shortcoming of a non-upgradeable unit, packed with mobile components. Awesome for a couple years, then grudgingly slow afterwards.

The mini has its place and is a great PC for some uses, but it is nowhere near a complete solution for anyone who wants a long-term computer, or does a lot of higher-end work. Not that I'd recommend a Mac Pro because I wouldn't. Too damn much. Too much power. Too much money.

-Clive

Fair enough, although the reason I have owned 3 is more due to my fickle nature and itch to buy a new computer on a regular basis (although the original mini was underpowered almost out of the gate). I tend to just buy a new mini when a new version of OS X ships as the resale value has remained pretty steady on all things Mac for such a long time.

That said, I too would love a consumer mid-tower, guess we'll all know is a little under a month.

 

[Butthead]

I tend to just buy a new mini when a new version of OS X ships as the resale value has remained pretty steady on all things Mac for such a long time.

That said, I too would love a consumer mid-tower, guess we'll all know is a little under a month.

Why should we know in a month? I do not think there is any possibility of an across the board line of updates @MWSF, hasn't ever happened before.

MacPro *has* to be updated soon, it's the powerhouse pro model, if not MWSF, then shortly before or after the high-end Xeon processors are available. Ultra-portable might be that 'one more thing' Steve-O gets to rant about.

MBP's will get the Penryn mobile processors, but will they be available in quantity such that Apple will announce @MWSF?

MB probably won't go Penryn until later. Which leaves us with the Mini? Either it really is EOL, or there will be a quiet/silent update to SR chipset, and the better Intel integrated graphics engine, but like the MB it would not be getting a Penryn until much later.

Still, would be nice if the Mini came in a premium model like a black MB, with SSD option, and optional CTO Penryn CPU...for $1k extra Penryn Extreme @2.8Ghz, w00t. The original Cube models were never as inexpensive as the Mini, so some would gladly pony up for a premium model.

 

[bobcb]

Why should we know in a month? I do not think there is any possibility of an across the board line of updates @MWSF, hasn't ever happened before.

So if they don't update the mini or EOL it at MacWorld we will know in about a month, how would we not know this in a month?

 

[Cave Man]

I'd be pleased as punch if the next Mini-Nano-Whatever has SR chipset. All would be golden!!

 

[Clive At Five]

Why should we know in a month? I do not think there is any possibility of an across the board line of updates @MWSF, hasn't ever happened before.

Eh, I don't think we have any reason to think there will be swooping updates this MWSF. I agree that the Mac Pro is almost a given.

I think any sort of small notebook will be independent of the MBP line - which won't get updated until after Apple can get a good stock of Penryn mobile chips (I'm guessing March) - the MacBooks just got SR in November, the iMac just got updated, and the Mac Mini got C2D in August. So I think MWSF is going to be limited to the Mac Pro and MacBook "Mini."

MBPs, March'08
Mini, Q1'08
iMac, Summer '08
MB, Summer '08

So what else for MWSF then? dotMac?

I know it's wishfull thinking...... but xMac?

-Clive

 

[bobcb]

Eh, I don't think we have any reason to think there will be swooping updates this MWSF. I agree that the Mac Pro is almost a given.

I think any sort of small notebook will be independent of the MBP line - which won't get updated until after Apple can get a good stock of Penryn mobile chips (I'm guessing March) - the MacBooks just got SR in November, the iMac just got updated, and the Mac Mini got C2D in August. So I think MWSF is going to be limited to the Mac Pro and MacBook "Mini."

MBPs, March'08
Mini, Q1'08
iMac, Summer '08
MB, Summer '08

So what else for MWSF then? dotMac?

I know it's wishfull thinking...... but xMac?

-Clive

That is a pretty fair summary of what I would expect as well. I'd really like to see them run with dotMac, drop the renewal price and add some services, it's a great service but expensive on a per year basis.

 

[shikimo]

That is a pretty fair summary of what I would expect as well. I'd really like to see them run with dotMac, drop the renewal price and add some services, it's a great service but expensive on a per year basis.

Yep, .mac costs too much. The profit margin must be spectacular.

WOOOOHOOOOO we made 500 posts!!!

If we keep this up the mini really will be EOL...along with every other computer currently produced, of course.