Mac Mini End Of Life?

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The problem with the :apple:TV is that it isn't really all that dynamic (or powerful). I'm banking on an updated Mini to play my current 1080p content. The current gen Mini is capable at 720p, but chokes on 1080p. Give me a Mini that can play it while patting it's head and rubbing it's tummy and I'm happy as a pig in ... well, you get the picture.
 
Using 802.11n I can stream HD-DVD movies I've stored on my network server to my iMac.
Can you describe this setup and how you ripped the discs? I didn't know there were any HD or Blu-Ray rippers, let alone viable server or player software, for HD video on Macs at the consumer level.
 
My GOD I haven't seen the internet in two months and I come back and this thread is STILL HERE!!!! It's all a conspiracy to prove the OP correct...
 
No, I did not miss your point. Blue Ray is expensive right now, much more expensive than regular, even at a million units, and we poor laymen have no idea of that cost.

In two years I suspect Blue Ray will start to become a large enough market to drive the cost down.

Exactly, there's a tipping point. That was precisely my point.

I'm saying that now HD-DVD is off the map, that tipping point may be sooner than you think.
 
$399: are you kidding? Do you know how much a Blue Ray device costs?
Actually, I used ¤, the "currency placeholder". I.e. it means €399 in Europe and $399 in the US. However, with the current value of the dollar it might also be $429…

In retail, computer drives start $150. It should be possible for Apple to get them at $100. If not now, then at least very soon.

The Apple TV currently costs about $229. Bigger HDD and 512 MiB RAM (instead of 256 MiB) are basically free due to the usual price drops. Add $20 for another 512 MiB RAM and $50 for a faster CPU.

The other differences (more USB ports, FW, DVI-I, S-ATA) are merely a design issue. The functionality is already built into most chipsets.
 
Can you describe this setup and how you ripped the discs? I didn't know there were any HD or Blu-Ray rippers, let alone viable server or player software, for HD video on Macs at the consumer level.
I've only done one (King Kong) to prove that I could do it. They take up an ungodly amount of space. I think (it's been awhile) I did the ripping on my Vista PC using an X-Box HD-DVD drive to read the HD-DVD disks. I think it was AnyDVD-HD to rip them, and PowerDVD-Ultra will play the files. You can catch up on progress in this area visiting AVSFORUM.com's HTPC section HERE. I haven't played the HD-DVD movie on my iMac. I have played it across my 802.11-n network between Vista PCs. I recommend wired networking and playing from the original disk though.

Enjoy.
4D
 
$399: are you kidding? Do you know how much a Blue Ray device costs?

Probably around the same as a Blu-ray drive plus an AppleTV. The thing is, the two expensive parts of a BD player are the drive and the decoding hardware. The AppleTV is the hardware (indeed, with a CPU upgrade it'd be better than what's in an average BD player, you could actually implement HD DVD with it or the vaporware Blu-ray "BD Live" spec that was supposed to bring Blu-ray up to HD DVD standards but is in virtually no players), so adding a BD drive to it should make it possible to be both.

However, here's the thing: Blu-ray has a number of issues that makes an AppleTV marriage unlikely at this stage:

  1. It's only nominally supported by Apple. Apple sees downloads as the wave of the future.
  2. The specs are still being thrashed out. Like I said, BD Live isn't even implemented yet despite having been part of the standard for months.
  3. It's far from certain it'll displace DVD. The timings are against it: player prices are unlikely to drop to consumer friendly levels for at least a year, if not two. The subsidies the manufacturers were engaged in to compete with HD DVD are going away. Media prices are expensive still. While it may not be the intent of the standard's supporters, Blu-ray is being positioned as the next Laserdisc. And pretty much all the players right now are obsolete and with the exception of the PS3 cannot be upgraded to support "current" standards - they're all worse than Toshiba's baseline A3. And that's going to create a consumer backlash when people spending $400-600 on a BD player today can't play the additional features of future Blu-ray discs. Blu-ray's reputation is going to seriously suffer.
  4. Implementing Blu-ray playback requires Java support. We already know how Apple feels about that.

Realistically, Apple is right: within two years online downloads will be so practical that hard media will be less important, and most people will see no value in buying a Blu-ray player to play the three or four movies they want to watch over and over again.

So, no, AppleTV will not support Blu-ray in the near future, if ever, not because it can't, but because Blu-ray is a format with no serious long term viability, the victim of lethargy and elitism from the consumer electronics industry. If they hadn't been so obsessed with blue lasers, perhaps things would have worked out differently.
 
Three possible out comes

apple may do three things for the lineup

1. MAJOR revamp for chasis and performance upgrades to intrege certain customers. the may market like the ipod nano and call it "Mac for the rest of us".

2. Send the mini to the grave and introduced a consumer minitower that is upgradable Graphics, RAM, HDD, DISK, and CPU.
"I'd prefer this:)"

3. Can the mini and introduce a sub $1000 dollar Imac that stripped down Graphics and CPU.

there is a fourth its no fun at all "the can it, and do nothing:("

P.S. What happened to Steve's promise of the $499 mac mini?

___________________________________________________
Ibook G4 1.33GHZ 1.25g 60g
Imac G5 1.8GHZ 1.5g 160g
MBP 17" 2.5GHZ 2g 250G

"Have you found Pippin, I have found mine!:D"
 
...pretty much all the (Blu-ray) players right now are obsolete... And that's going to create a consumer backlash when people spending $400-600 on a BD player today can't play the additional features of future Blu-ray discs. Blu-ray's reputation is going to seriously suffer...
That may be theoretically true, but it is not in a practical sense. The vast majority of people don't watch many of the "normal" BD/DVD extras. They aren't going to miss the few additional ones that are offered over the internet, which is all that 2.0 has to offer over 1.1. I wonder how many would ever bother to add their player to their network, or how many even have a network to add them to. Moreover, 1.1 offers little more than PIP commentaries compared to 1.0, not exactly a deal breaker for most users.

Not having the latest and greatest may bother some of us, but it won't be a big issue for typical buyers. All current players will play the movie on future discs, and that's all most people care about.

...Realistically, Apple is right: within two years online downloads will be so practical that hard media will be less important, and most people will see no value in buying a Blu-ray player to play the three or four movies they want to watch over and over again...
Maybe, but people predicted the demise of radio with the advent of TV, and books with the advent of radio. They appeal to different people. Many will always prefer hard copies, notably collectors. It will also be sometime before 1080p movie downloads are practical, and some people will want the highest quality.

The BD market will be smaller than for DVDs at their peak, but not necessarily too small to be worthwhile. That's if BD ever manages to supplant DVD as the home movie medium of choice, still a very big if. DVD is likely to be a bigger obstacle to BD's success than downloads.

However, the main reason for Apple to move forward with BD isn't to play movies. It's storage. It seems the world has an insatiable appetite for storage, and BD promises a massive amount of storage capacity for a very small cost. Sooner or later, Apple will add BD, if only to keep pace with PCs. They'll probably wait for BD drives to drop substantially in price, though, and most likely they'll start with the Mac Pros. I agree that they won't be in the Mini's anytime soon.
 
I miss my mini. gave it to dad for his cabin up north... I'll get another one for an emergency back-up if the G5 power mac dual 2Ghz fails... at $600, a back-up apple is a great idea. Steve's a genius!;)
 
I miss my mini. gave it to dad for his cabin up north... I'll get another one for an emergency back-up if the G5 power mac dual 2Ghz fails... at $600, a back-up apple is a great idea. Steve's a genius!;)

????????????????????????

Sorry, I don't see taking my computer with me on vacation...

That's just me though...
 
Does this make any sense at all? $479 for the 1.83 and $649 for the 1.66...

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Probably around the same as a Blu-ray drive plus an AppleTV. The thing is, the two expensive parts of a BD player are the drive and the decoding hardware. The AppleTV is the hardware (indeed, with a CPU upgrade it'd be better than what's in an average BD player, you could actually implement HD DVD with it or the vaporware Blu-ray "BD Live" spec that was supposed to bring Blu-ray up to HD DVD standards but is in virtually no players), so adding a BD drive to it should make it possible to be both.

However, here's the thing: Blu-ray has a number of issues that makes an AppleTV marriage unlikely at this stage:

  1. It's only nominally supported by Apple. Apple sees downloads as the wave of the future.
  2. The specs are still being thrashed out. Like I said, BD Live isn't even implemented yet despite having been part of the standard for months.
  3. It's far from certain it'll displace DVD. The timings are against it: player prices are unlikely to drop to consumer friendly levels for at least a year, if not two. The subsidies the manufacturers were engaged in to compete with HD DVD are going away. Media prices are expensive still. While it may not be the intent of the standard's supporters, Blu-ray is being positioned as the next Laserdisc. And pretty much all the players right now are obsolete and with the exception of the PS3 cannot be upgraded to support "current" standards - they're all worse than Toshiba's baseline A3. And that's going to create a consumer backlash when people spending $400-600 on a BD player today can't play the additional features of future Blu-ray discs. Blu-ray's reputation is going to seriously suffer.
  4. Implementing Blu-ray playback requires Java support. We already know how Apple feels about that.

Realistically, Apple is right: within two years online downloads will be so practical that hard media will be less important, and most people will see no value in buying a Blu-ray player to play the three or four movies they want to watch over and over again.

So, no, AppleTV will not support Blu-ray in the near future, if ever, not because it can't, but because Blu-ray is a format with no serious long term viability, the victim of lethargy and elitism from the consumer electronics industry. If they hadn't been so obsessed with blue lasers, perhaps things would have worked out differently.

Were you sane while writing this? What's more elitist than suggesting that people will all be downloading movies in a couple of years. 20 percent of the country doesn't even have broadband, and a lot of them probably have the sub-1Mbps speeds. I have a 3Mbps connection, but I'm one of the few I know with one that fast. It still takes about an hour to download a full movie from iTunes. It takes 15 minutes to hit a store.

As far as Blu-ray, just wow. Those files are at least 4GB for 720p. Blu-ray Discs are slowly starting to see discounts again (after the Christmas rush) and will start dropping in price as more people get them. The format won't be the HUGE success that DVD has been, but downloads sure as heck won't kill it in the next few years. You can't port an HD movie to another location any better than with a Blu-ray Disc.

Downloads will create their own chunk in the entertainment market, but even iTunes has failed to entice me. I keep my eye on sale ads for DVDs under $10. I bought XXX for $4 a few days ago. I don't think iTunes ever sells movies below $7.99, and you don't get any special features (or the full-DVD quality) with them. Using HandBrake, I can have both the DVD and the mp4 video to take on my iPod.

As far as Laserdisc, there are a couple of major differences. First, Blu-ray discs aren't the size of Rhode Island. Second, the players are backward-compatible with DVDs and CDs AND upconvert standard DVDs. BDs also provide something better than DVD (HD quality) whereas Laserdisc's main benefit was it wasn't compressed, but it was still the same quality picture.
 
Does this make any sense at all? $479 for the 1.83 and $649 for the 1.66...

Apple Certified Refurbished Mac mini

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• Save 41% off the original price
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512MB memory
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• Save 19% off the original price
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I get the feeling somebody has an algorithm that discounts based on availability. I'm guessing that nobody's paying attention to the last one that has been put out for sale at an unrealistic price.



Bring me my new Mini, Mr. Jobs!!!
 
I get the feeling somebody has an algorithm that discounts based on availability. I'm guessing that nobody's paying attention to the last one that has been put out for sale at an unrealistic price.



Bring me my new Mini, Mr. Jobs!!!

I hear ya'! Hopefully soon............ The wait continues:(
 
Were you sane while writing this? What's more elitist than suggesting that people will all be downloading movies in a couple of years. 20 percent of the country doesn't even have broadband, and a lot of them probably have the sub-1Mbps speeds. I have a 3Mbps connection, but I'm one of the few I know with one that fast. It still takes about an hour to download a full movie from iTunes. It takes 15 minutes to hit a store.

Did you read what I said or did you just want to post something angry? I no more implied that 100% of the population would be downloading movies than Blu-ray's fanbois are implying 100% of the population have Blu-ray players thanks to HD DVD's defeat.

What I said is that it's far from certain that Blu-ray will supplant DVD, and I also said that online downloads will be practical enough for hard media to be less important. Both I sincerely believe are true, even with "20% of the population" not having broadband available. I would hazard a guess that the number of people who actually have broadband (not just available, I mean who actually, today, subscribe to cable or DSL) is considerably higher than the number of people with an HDTV, and is almost certainly a factor of 10-20 over the number of people who have a Blu-ray player, be it a PS3 they never use as a player, or something they actually do use.

As far as Blu-ray, just wow. Those files are at least 4GB for 720p. Blu-ray Discs are slowly starting to see discounts again (after the Christmas rush) and will start dropping in price as more people get them.

Blu-ray prices actually jumped a little in the aftermath of the HD DVD discontinuation, and they're pretty steady at the moment. Blu-ray's current manufacturers are currently locking out the manufacturers who have brought us $20 DVD players, largely because they've invested billions in the format and they need to recoup that money. It's improbable to say the least that we'll see sub-$200 Blu-ray players any time within the next two years, everyone who controls the format on the hardware side is opposed to that, and the studios don't have the clout they did when there was a format war going on.

So no, Blu-ray isn't suddenly going to become an everyman's format for a while. It's going to remain expensive, and those who buy them are going to badmouth the format after paying $400-600 for players that are obsolete despite still coming off the assembly lines.

The format won't be the HUGE success that DVD has been, but downloads sure as heck won't kill it in the next few years. You can't port an HD movie to another location any better than with a Blu-ray Disc.

It's not going to be much of a success at all. It's essentially the next laserdisc, a format guaranteed to only appeal to a minority that'll be passed by by the vast majority of people who have much better options.

And here's the critical part, the part you're ignoring: the AppleTV is all about downloads. That's the format Apple, and I, and presumably millions of others, are seeing as the everyman format. This whole discussion is about whether it's worth Apple's while incorporating a Blu-ray drive into the AppleTV. The answer is no. Blu-ray is not a significant improvement on online downloads and DVD. So incorporating such a drive would drive up the price of an AppleTV to $400 but wouldn't offer customers a significant improvement in capabilities.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not overly happy about this. I want to BUY movies, not rent them. That's why I bought an HD DVD player. I like HD DVD, and the best part was that if the dice had rolled the other way in January, an HD format would have been available that was affordable, whose players were not obsolete (even the original A1 was capable of HDi - the thing BD Live is supposed to match), and which was available in an affordable form both to big studios and smaller studios and publishers. The availability of Combo discs also meant that multi-player homes didn't need to rush out and upgrade every player. The mandatory managed copy feature made it possible to envisage some pretty great services built upon HD DVD. But it didn't happen, the industry settled on the format that was the most expensive, had the poorest backward compatibility, had the least potential, and was the most in flux and unsettled.

The vast majority of people will settle for downloads. The hardware is cheaper. The movies are more accessible and the system more easily satisfies the "instant gratification" gene in all of us. And the transitory nature of the system means that there's less likelihood of obsolete hardware discrediting the service as Blu-ray's current players will undoubtedly do to Blu-ray. It's going to take at least two years for Blu-ray to fall into an affordable price bracket, and by then online downloads will be so entrenched it's hard to see consumers rushing out to buy it.

Blu-ray will be the next laserdisc. You need special, overpriced, equipment to watch it and the only advantage it offers over the mainstream format (DVD) is better picture quality. Your disks will not play in any of your other equipment. And, ultimately, if you're planning to rent anything, well, the easiest systems will bypass the format completely.

And Apple's right there providing the easiest systems. They're about as likely to offer Blu-ray on the AppleTV as JVC was likely to try to make a mainstream VHS-Laserdisc combo player.
 
Does this make any sense at all? $479 for the 1.83 and $649 for the 1.66...

Apple Certified Refurbished Mac mini

Refurbished Mac mini, 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
512MB memory
80GB hard drive
SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 memory
Learn More

• Save 41% off the original price
Original price: $799.00
Your price: $479.00
Estimated Ship:
1-3 business days
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Add
Refurbished Mac mini 1.66GHz Intel Core Duo
512MB memory
80GB hard drive
SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 memory
Learn More

• Save 19% off the original price
Original price: $799.00
Your price: $649.00
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I just ordered one of the 1.83 refurbished minis, and it happened to come with a full 2GB of RAM also. (I don't by any means suggest that all of them come with 2GB of RAM - I think I just got lucky). Still, I feel that I got a good deal.

I had been planning to hold out for a new mini, but I got impatient (and I thought I could save some money with the refurb). It ended up working out pretty well. Now I just have to resell the 2GB of memory that I had ordered from OWC and don't need anymore...
 
I like how the Mac Mini thread turned into a post battle about HD DVD and Blu Ray.

hehe

However, I'd really like to see an update on the Mac Minis. That, or a price drop.
 
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