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Thats OEM, to LEGALLY buy you have to have an OEM manufacturers licence and purchase hardware with that purchase.

Probably in the U.S., at least in Germany its not allowed to bundle software with hardware, so here everyone can buy a SB-Version hassle-free.
 
I'm really looking forward to reading some reviews once this gets released. Hopefully the major sites have had SL long enough that they'll be able to post their reviews the day that it gets released.
 
Mathcolo, are you kidding. Leopard was full of bugs when it launced. I know. I went to the launch party, got the T-shirt, and installed Leopard that very night -- which was followed by 4 hours holding on the line to wait for Apple Help to counter the blue screen of death. It was a horrific time because I upgraded to Leopard without backing up my photos. I just hadn't anticipated such a massive problem.

This time, I'm not upgrading to Snow Leopard until at least 10.6.7 or 8. I've realised that all you guys are just paying to enter Apple's widespread beta testing program. About a year from now, Snow Leopard should be fine, and I'll come on board then.

Meanwhile, from what I've seen, I won't be missing out on much. So what if the programs are running 64-bit. What big-deal difference is that going to make to me? Perhaps slightly faster, but not that much. Slight changes in eye-candy animation? Big deal. Smaller disk footprint? No big deal since I have plenty of storage space left.

You guys realise you are just beta testers for Apple.

For what it's worth, Apple seems to have been testing more third-party programs with Snow Leopard, since it has a blacklist of known problematic programs and will disable the software from loading on boot, I seem to recall reading somewhere. I believe this was the cause of the majority of Leopard's show-stopper problems (Application Enhancer).
 
Supposing Snow Leopard does come out on 28th August and if i buy a MacBook Pro right after, it's going to be included with the system right?
 
I hate it when people call Snow Leopard a service pack, because it isn't. It brings 64-bit support, GCD, and Open CL and more. For only $29.

Unfortunately there are a whole heap of people out there who expect a revolution that will totally change the way Mac looks. It has been covered a million times on this forum but there are people where who ignore it all in favour of whinging, whining, ranting and raving about things the know nothing about.

Precisely why I have never torrented a copy of OS X. The price (even the $129) is plenty reasonable in my mind, and I will gladly pay for such well made software.

When one also splits off the cost as a per week amount, its less than a cup of coffee and a slice from the local cafe.

Windows on the other hand... lets just say that I need to have it for school, and the price simply is not right :p (and before we get into an argument over the right/wrong of torrenting, I will just say that I know that torrenting is wrong. but I don't care. there. done.)

The price of Windows has always been expensive and rather than reduce the price Microsoft did a half assed compromise by slicing up and offering multiple versions. Its like finding you've got a leak in your roof and the best solution provided is to move the furniture and put a bucket to catch the drip.

I suspect there's a lot of cross-over between those who have/will torrent it and those who will buy it. Some people can't resist having the newest thing first.

True, there are some of us who download it and later purchase it; hence the reason I've found the 'very wide brush' some apply liberally end users who download as rather annoying.

Bugs in a GM release of Mac OS X are not a very good heuristic of their readiness or I guess ‘retail-ability’. Apple has shipped major releases of Mac OS X with severe data loss bugs.

In 10.4, the text list feature in the Cocoa Text System was reported to cause all text below a list to vanish on save.

Apple's policy on initial releases of Mac OS X appears to be just to have a solid foundation for the system and the higher-level frameworks can be patched in the 2-3 releases following its availability. There is good reason why a lot of folks here have stated they wait until 10.x.3 till making the move.

Reminds me of Mac OS X 10.3.x which had a data corruption back relating to the Oxford firewire chipset found in external hard disk (and a few other devices).

I think Snow Leopard may be scrutinized on this level more than any other previous release simply because it delivers to the user what was promised, an upgrade to Leopard, so there aren't a lot of wow features for people to play with. The real stuff is the backend with GCD and the gradual move to implicit parallelism that it seems to be signaling. clang is looking good and might replace GCC as the default compiler for Mac OS X by 10.7.

It's going to be interesting going forward.

I have a feeling the big showy stuff will appear in 10.7.x where we'll see these new frameworks being taken off in deeper more meaningful ways; GPU assisted video and audio compression :D

All im saying is: Expect to see a new build.

Probably the last buildon friday infact.
I think the release is still september.

Thank god for that, a new build friday...that WILL be gold Master (RTM)

Ah, you do realise that it is already Golden Master - the only debate now is whether it is 10A432, 10A435 or some other build.

I mean there really ain't much they need to work on now and, to be honest, they can always patch any tiny bugs in the first week.....like they did with Leopard. then again Leopard was just out-n-out a piece of **** my my mind.

It is already GM. You can't GM something at the last minute - it takes 2 weeks MINIMUM to produce the boxed products and ship it to the distributors then to the retail stores - or are you one of those people who think that when you purchase software off the shelf it'll have the latest updates up to the last minute?

I still don't understand why Apple allow you to install Quciktime 7, even though, accoridng to Apple quicktime 10 has the same support and also, supports more codecs, such as xvid and wmv?

Bullcrap - no one has EVER said that. Stop repeating lies.

i'm able to run PPC only apps still, without rosetta being installed. Thats wrong surely to god.

therefore it's not Intel ONLY afterall BOOOO

Do you even know what rosetta actually is?

Please - stop posting until you've read a book; your posts are driving me to the point of suicide.

Lmao, this is not only the first OS X copy for Apple to actually ship ON its release date that they said it would be... but even BEFORE it. Haha. Cept it's buggy as f*ck.

Nice to see you're willing to lie and never ask for advice; but then again, me a liar on this forum is apparently 'cool' because of the relatively anonymity that the internet gives you.

GM Builds are not bug-free: they're still sorting out bugs in Leopard, a year after it went GM.

GM builds should be relatively stable and bug-free, feature complete and API complete, and are tested extensively.

Of course but we have people here who have a problem with a third party application and blame the operating system; they do an upgrade rather than a clean install and wonder why all hell breaks loose (personally Apple should force people to clean install EVERY TIME they install Mac OS X).

They don't just compile a copy and slap a GM sticker on it - they work very hard to get a GM candidate build, then test that one build 24hrs for a few days, running scripts and simulating user behaviour to test its stability. It's also used by real people, who give feedback on whether or not it is acceptable. GM builds are compiled long before they are so declared. They won't make 'the last build on Friday' the GM.

This is what bugfix 10.0.X updates are for. 10.6.1 will probably be released in 4-6 weeks, after general availability, after Apple has received feedback and fixed bugs they couldn't fix in time for the GM. The GM build often has several known issues they couldn't fix in time.

I agree - I'd probably say that they're working on iTunes for the up coming devices and then spend time tying up loose ends with Mac OS X 10.6 with the release of the first update. 10.5.0 was never as disastrous as some people claim, and compared to 10.4 and 10.3 when it was released, it was a heck of alot more stable - thats for sure. I remember back when I got my eMac which came with 10.2.4 - that was no walk in the park either.

Software is a cycle of natural progression; it annoys me that firstly we have people nominating themselves as experts in software development, when they experience a single problem it is apparently the problem of the operating system whilst ignoring the fact that it is the third party who is responsible for providing updates to customers and support the latest operating system.

Wow, I potentially lose CS3, Vuze, Max, Cyberduck with 10.6.

Instead of complaining to this forum or Apple - put some pressure on those vendors to provide free updates.

I might keep my iMac on 10.5 for a while while I play with SL on my new MBP...

You might as well go for the family pack considering its only $20 more and you 5 licences.

It has been mentioned several times on this thread that 10.6 is being "rushed" and that that current build is "buggy" and so on. Why oh why would Apple need to rush this product to market?

Why don't you learn the definition of Golden Master - Golden Master does NOT mean 'absolutely perfect and without fault'.

It can't be a race against Microsoft, since fully functional, useable Windows 7 has been available for some time now. What other than an internal schedule can be prompting a rush then?

None of us know what the schedule is, and all the whining are from people with issues relating to third parties - in other words, nothing to do with Snow Leopard.

Considering that reputation is at stake, Snow Leopard cannot be a rushed release - it may be coming out this month, the next, who knows? We don't know what build number will be released either and one would have thought that any developers with access to the release candidate or golden master versions would be under a non-disclosure agreement and not be telling anyone anything anyway: the currently available "buggy" versions are not necessarily what ends up on the install DVD.

We'll find out in a week, or a month. Until then, we wait and see.

Again, 'buggy', buggy by what definition? you keep throwing it around with no qualifiers to back it up!
 
Supposing Snow Leopard does come out on 28th August and if i buy a MacBook Pro right after, it's going to be included with the system right?

If you order it from the Apple Store online it will probably come ready installed.

If you buy it from your local Apple Store, it will probably come with Leopard installed with a Snow Leopard drop-in DVD in the box, which you install yourself.

If you get it from any other retailer, you will have to get Snow Leopard through the up-to-date program.
 
What build is it?

Can someone PLEASE answer me this?

I downloaded the so called golden master to test it out (I will buy it), and OpenGL in Xbench is much slower and quite a few apps aren't quite ready for prime time, so, do you think Xbench is just not accurate or what?

FWIW, in Geek bench, it takes a 2.4 MB pro and brings it to the 2.8 specs in 64 bit, for me, it's all about FPU which is needed for AUDIO PLUG INS.

Hopefully, there will be a mid range MAC PRO, otherwise, I might go to a hack and see how that goes...anyway, curious about the OPENGL being so much slower - and doubt that there are updates since the Golden Master.

Thoughts?

FWIW, I always have several partitions before committing, in fact, I still have a TIGER image on my MBP with Bootcamp, very easy to do, just install leopard, then bootcamp, then put back the tiger image.

Right not I have, LOL,
10.6 Leopard 2A Partition 250 GB partition
Free Space 740 GB partition
10GB Snow Leopard Parition to install on other systems.
10.4.11 MBP
Windows MBP
10.5.7 Partition
Free Space

All Firewire 800/400 eSata hard drives.

Also curious if anyone has booted from a MBP via external on eSata and how well the performance is.

Looks good (Snow), like the minor changes. Windows 7 must be looking pretty good for such a low Apple upgrade (also have a windows 7/Vista/XP rig). All for audio and PC only apps, although that is shrinking these days ever since the Intel swap.

Peace.
 
^ OpenGL is probably slower because drivers are not as ripe as those in Leopard. If history is anything to go by - then Apple will probably release Graphic Update via software update either on its own or rolled into 10.6.1
 
Can someone PLEASE answer me this?

I downloaded the so called golden master to test it out (I will buy it), and OpenGL in Xbench is much slower and quite a few apps aren't quite ready for prime time, so, do you think Xbench is just not accurate or what?

I am going to scream if I see another post like this. These benchmark tools are BS *takes deep breath* please, think before you post.
 
Can someone PLEASE answer me this?

I downloaded the so called golden master to test it out (I will buy it), and OpenGL in Xbench is much slower and quite a few apps aren't quite ready for prime time, so, do you think Xbench is just not accurate or what?

FWIW, in Geek bench, it takes a 2.4 MB pro and brings it to the 2.8 specs in 64 bit, for me, it's all about FPU which is needed for AUDIO PLUG INS.

Hopefully, there will be a mid range MAC PRO, otherwise, I might go to a hack and see how that goes...anyway, curious about the OPENGL being so much slower - and doubt that there are updates since the Golden Master.

Thoughts?

FWIW, I always have several partitions before committing, in fact, I still have a TIGER image on my MBP with Bootcamp, very easy to do, just install leopard, then bootcamp, then put back the tiger image.

Right not I have, LOL,
10.6 Leopard 2A Partition 250 GB partition
Free Space 740 GB partition
10GB Snow Leopard Parition to install on other systems.
10.4.11 MBP
Windows MBP
10.5.7 Partition
Free Space

All Firewire 800/400 eSata hard drives.

Also curious if anyone has booted from a MBP via external on eSata and how well the performance is.

Looks good (Snow), like the minor changes. Windows 7 must be looking pretty good for such a low Apple upgrade (also have a windows 7/Vista/XP rig). All for audio and PC only apps, although that is shrinking these days ever since the Intel swap.

Peace.

Isn't Xbench massively out of date? Not optimised for 10.5 let alone 10.6, something about the gcc compiler used in the current version being two or three versions old.
 
I agree.

Apple needs to set a date and stop this speculation.

No... That's the problem. You get worked up all by yourself, has nothing to do with Apple.

Everyone goes nuts because they "see" or "think" or "want" something to happen, and when it doesn't Apple's stock price gets beat up.

In my opinion, the speculation will only drive Apple to be even more secretive. Which is fine by me, I actually like being surprised by new toys rather that hearing about something 14 months in advance when it is still a cheaply made mockup.

What if Apple announced Monday that SL is coming on September 28th? You all would begin crying and AAPL would get slapped around a bit because they didn't meet your drummed up, non-factual, rumor based, pre-conceived expectations.

Apple doesn't 'need' to do anything... Anyway, back to point.

The only thing surprising here, is I imagined they would do this like Tiger, where they had the big Apple Store events with free t-shirts, give aways and discounts.

The Chicago, Michigan avenue store was buzzing when Tiger was released. And I do remember we all knew about it plenty of time in advance for the release.

Apple is a big-boy/girl, they know what they're doing.

Will be interesting to see if we can get our hands on it next week. Would be nice, but not expected.
 
Been using it about a week. The speed improvements for everything from starting up, to joining networks, to backing up on time machine, to opening any of the core applications are all freaking awesome. I have to use Leopard at work, and snow leopard really makes leopard just feel tired. But it's true, the genie effect hasn't changed. So yes, I suppose it is a boring upgrade, unless you actually, you know, use your computer to do things as opposed to just minimizing/maximizing windows all day long.

In fact, there has been a slight change to the genie fx in a way that a window can now genie into its own application icon on the dock!
 
That there, the comment in bold, annoys me so much ... my wife is the prime culprit for that! She'll drive past the Shell garage selling Unleaded for 1.03 to drive another 5 minutes to the Tesco garage because they're 99.9! It's just under 4 pence of a difference, and when you fill the tank up fully the cost difference is virtually nothing!

I try to tell her, but does she listen? Noooo .... I get hit with words like "Recession" and "Credit Crunch", at which point I suddenly hear the birds sing and the wind blow before realising I've managed to enter "My Happy Place". :D
Shell fuel will get more MPG, burn cleaner and make your car run smoother because it has additives added to it. Why you pay slightly more for it.

You get what you pay for.

The more expensive diesel fuel (usually BP Ultimate) I use in my car is cheaper to run per mile compared to Tesco's own diesel (which is 5-10p/l cheaper). Car doesn't make funny noises on BP fuel.
 
All I was saying was we won't find out till Snow Leopard is released...

Why don't you learn the definition of Golden Master - Golden Master does NOT mean 'absolutely perfect and without fault'.

None of us know what the schedule is, and all the whining are from people with issues relating to third parties - in other words, nothing to do with Snow Leopard.

Again, 'buggy', buggy by what definition? you keep throwing it around with no qualifiers to back it up!

Firstly, I should state that I have no access to any form of Mac OS X beyond 10.4.11 - I put "rushed" and "buggy" in quotation marks to emphasise that these were the terms used on this forum many times already to describe what was rumoured to be GM (I fully appreciate that this term does not contain the word "perfect" in its definition). "Buggy" and "rushed" are not words I am qualified to use as I have not used the software myself. I have no idea whether any of the recent builds are "buggy" or not, or what the "bugs" are. What I was saying was:

- it may be coming out this month, the next, who knows? We don't know what build number will be released either and one would have thought that any developers with access to the release candidate or golden master versions would be under a non-disclosure agreement and not be telling anyone anything anyway: the currently available "buggy" versions are not necessarily what ends up on the install DVD.

We'll find out in a week, or a month. Until then, we wait and see.

Or to put it another way, chances are no one on this forum has any real idea of what is going to happen over the course of the next month (as you point out). Also, anyone who has full knowledge of what is going to be on the install DVD - which may be a known build, or not - is likely under an NDA.

I was not trying to say that the software released was going to be "buggy" or perfect or anything. I was saying that no one knows yet, only that with a reputation to consider I doubt that what is released will be that "buggy"...

So we wait and see.
 
Firstly, I should state that I have no access to any form of Mac OS X beyond 10.4.11 - I put "rushed" and "buggy" in quotation marks to emphasise that these were the terms used on this forum many times already to describe what was rumoured to be GM (I fully appreciate that this term does not contain the word "perfect" in its definition). "Buggy" and "rushed" are not words I am qualified to use as I have not used the software myself. I have no idea whether any of the recent builds are "buggy" or not, or what the "bugs" are. What I was saying was:



Or to put it another way, chances are no one on this forum has any real idea of what is going to happen over the course of the next month (as you point out). Also, anyone who has full knowledge of what is going to be on the install DVD - which may be a known build, or not - is likely under an NDA.

I was not trying to say that the software released was going to be "buggy" or perfect or anything. I was saying that no one knows yet.

So we wait and see.

I suggest people read the ADC agreements, even the Free Account is several clauses long.

https://connect.apple.com/cgi-bin/W.../wo/OL3g6SALgewF2pTsYGI1h3fIhYF/1.0.1.17.2.25

I dont think anyone here posting in Snow Leopard rumors are qualified testers by Apple.
 
If APPLE has a 90 day window to get in on up to date program-FROM June 8-which is a fixed-not a traveling 90-day start date-then it stands to reason that the disc will be out by Sept 8-or more likely Sept 4-so its out the door and everyone can go on a weeks Labor Day Vacation before things ramp up bigtime
Other wise it would be
"Staring June 8-no-July 8-Opps!-Aug 8-no-we-really-mean-it-this-time-Sept 8;"
 
Same here

My plan is to test the SL waters via external FW drives but continue with Leopard as the main boot volume at least through 10.6.2 or so.

I'm a musician too, and plan to do exactly the same thing. I have an up-to-date order in already, and I have a FW drive I can use to mess around with. I've already cloned my boot drive so that I can test the SL installation process and see what happens.
 
If APPLE has a 90 day window to get in on up to date program-FROM June 8-which is a fixed-not a traveling 90-day start date-then it stands to reason that the disc will be out by Sept 8-or more likely Sept 4-so its out the door and everyone can go on a weeks Labor Day Vacation before things ramp up bigtime
Other wise it would be
"Staring June 8-no-July 8-Opps!-Aug 8-no-we-really-mean-it-this-time-Sept 8;"

Except they don't have a 90 day period. The up to date program ends in December.
 
Apple is a big-boy/girl, they know what they're doing..

Indeed...we will get SL when it's ready. My expectations are always low with release dates regarding Apple stuff since they are so secretive. They've released plenty of OSs before, and as you said, are very seasoned and know what they're doing.

Even though I will run out and buy SL on the first day, I probably shouldn't...with 10.5, I pre-ordered and got it delivered on launch day, only to get a BSOL when I installed it!
 
No the licence still isnt valid, you are agreeing under US law as stated by the agreement, not german law.

No Im not American, nor do I live any where near America

That is not correct. Atleast in Norway some laws stands above anything else. Even if you agree to some terms set by a document and sign it, the law could render terms invalid and they would not count.

Like hackintosh is legal in Norway, because Norwegian law stands above Apple's EULA. And when the law and Apple's EULA disagree the law wins. Even though you have agreed to Apple's terms.

But, off topic :)
 
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