Mac Mini to Lose Its USB-A Ports Later This Year

[ric22]

Yes. The SD card slot in particular is a huge selling point for many Pro buyers. It was a big deal when Apple added it back (along with HDMI and MagSafe) on the 14-inch MacBook Pro.

Apple would certainly not bother putting these things on their Pro laptops if only 10 users wanted them.

The SD card slot was made more important by Apple's decision to move both USB ports onto one side, meaning that one standard SD adapter covered both ports. 🤦‍♂️ If there were 4 USB-C ports on laptops, 2 on each side, this would be less of an issue. Plus, with wireless transfers straight from cameras, along with easy USB to USB transfers, the SD card slot isn't as important as it was in 2010 (though of course it's still important for pros that shoot a lot of images or footage in high res/RAW).

That port is in a bit of a unique situation and impacts professionals but very few hobbyists. If it makes you money it's easier to justify an extra £500 or so to dodge a dongle.

 

[ric22]

We don't know that. We can speculate that it was an argument towards sticking with Lightning for longer than they otherwise would've, and I'm sure they didn't mind the revenues, but I haven't seen any compelling argument as to why they would've wanted to stick to Lightning for much longer.

Seriously? I didn't think anyone ever debated an alternative to why they stuck with Lightning and its slow connection and lack of interoperability with other brands for so very long, aside from profit.

 

[Nekronos]

They are negligible on a desktop computer - except for their backwards compatibility with older peripherals.

I'd agree in the sense USB-A on a desktop is negligible from a form factor and manufacturing standpoint - as far as function it's not negligible. If it was negligible as you claim no one would care.

 

[Nekronos]

I actually like having USB-A ports, but since you brought up the strawman, I’m just pointing out that e-waste is a bogus argument for this, when there are many other valid arguments, such as inconvenience and the annoyance of having to use adapters. If e-waste is truly your driving concern, you should be wanting the smallest mini with as few ports as possible, especially no A ports since they are larger and the mass manufacture of these devices is what actually creates more e-waste. I’m fine with you wanting A ports, but the e-waste complaint is in itself a strawman complaint if you are going to use it to just keep adding more parts to a newly manufactured device. I like USB-A and would be quite happy for Apple to keep it, but arguing that they should use more materials to manufacture new items for the sake of the environment is simply a hypocritical argument.

And the e-waste argument for any consumer electronic item is inherently a contradiction. Apple designing the next mini to make it not appeal to you actually reduces e-waste the most, if it prevents you from buying that mini.

E-waste is just one of multiple reasons to not drop USB-A on a desktop, and just because there are other arguements, it doesn't invalidate e-waste as it goes hand in hand with forcing users to buy adapters or buy a newer peripheral both actions that lead to e-waste. As far as your argument about going for a smaller desktop, if you read my previous comment you responded to it directly counters this suggestion and even your own when you claimed it's not waste until discarded.

I see you are playing devils advocate here which I have no issue with but one of the main points of having multiple ports that support multiple generations is to help transition and offer backward compatibility - particularly for products that don't even utilize the next gen port. Having fewer ports just leads to more adapters/pucks/hubs or wireless peripherals that also add to e-waste so I think your effort falls short.

I'm not arguing manufacturers use "more materials" USB-A isn't that much bigger and the amount of materials and money it saves by not forcing someone to buy another adapter or new peripheral is far more beneficial. Furthermore for what its worth, USB-A is longer lasting - both ports and cables tend to hold up better.

Your last paragraph I think is too narrow, disincentivising me from buying a mini and instead buying a mac studio or other alternative isn't reducing e-waste and again - as you claimed previously, nothing is e-waste until disposed of.

 

[ric22]

E-waste is just one of multiple reasons to not drop USB-A on a desktop, and just because there are other arguements, it doesn't invalidate e-waste as it goes hand in hand with forcing users to buy adapters or buy a newer peripheral both actions that lead to e-waste. As far as your argument about going for a smaller desktop, if you read my previous comment you responded to it directly counters this suggestion and even your own when you claimed it's not waste until discarded.

I see you are playing devils advocate here which I have no issue with but one of the main points of having multiple ports that support multiple generations is to help transition and offer backward compatibility - particularly for products that don't even utilize the next gen port. Having fewer ports just leads to more adapters/pucks/hubs or wireless peripherals that also add to e-waste so I think your effort falls short.

I'm not arguing manufacturers use "more materials" USB-A isn't that much bigger and the amount of materials and money it saves by not forcing someone to buy another adapter or new peripheral is far more beneficial. Furthermore for what its worth, USB-A is longer lasting - both ports and cables tend to hold up better.

Your last paragraph I think is too narrow, disincentivising me from buying a mini and instead buying a mac studio or other alternative isn't reducing e-waste and again - as you claimed previously, nothing is e-waste until disposed of.

Exactly. This "removing ports reduces e-waste" is baffling. No longer producing peripherals with connectors other than USB-C is what is needed- that change doesn't need to be driven by removing ports from a niche DESKTOP. Much more e-waste will be driven by buying new cables or adapters or hubs, or simply new devices. Turning useful things into junk is the definition of creating e-waste.

Maybe more legislation is needed, when you can still see brand new devices being sold that can only connect or charge via USB-A, which is crazy. I wouldn't buy that, but others will.

 

[iDave]

So - to parrot @ignatius345 below - buy a $5 adapter then! Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander...

That’s exactly what I have done to adapt to the obsolete USB-A ports in my “modern” car. Actually, I pulled some old cables out of the junk drawer instead.

 

[Nekronos]

That is a wireless connection. They do not have equal use cases. Comparing Ethernet to WiFi is like comparing an iPad to a TV.

I feel like you aren't following the conversation from A to B, and the fact that these quotes don't catch what it's in response to doesn't help. In any case, suggesting comparing ethernet to wifi is akin to comparing ipad to a tv makes zero sense to me. Remember we are talking about removing ports, whether that's ethernet or USB-A or anything for that matter, a port takes up space and bandwidth, thus my suggestion is apt as alternatives are available for both ethernet and USB-A, not all devices have ethernet, not all devices need it in fact I could argue few do.

The first half is correct, yes, peripherals don't obsolesce as fast, but as ports evolve continuing use of an old peripheral just because "it still works perfectly fine" is ultimately worse for the consumer. Consumers do benefit from a USB-C mouse and keyboard for the simple fact that a USB-C transition is ongoing, even if the functionality of the peripherals were the same over USB-A. Nobody is advocating for computer manufacturers to still build Serial or PS/2 ports just because PS/2 mice still work great.

I've said why continuing to use USB-A isn't worse for the consumer, in fact I argued the opposite with reasons, where are yours? This is not an argument - "consumers benefit from USB-C mouse and keyboard because USB-C transition is ongoing"

"Technologies consumers don't want" is a stretch. More like "technologies consumers generally don't know about because the mouse they bought comes with the square USB instead of the oval USB, and since my computer has the square USB it should work, right?".

Given the widespread use of USB-A, I don't think it's a stretch. Also given how long USB-C has been out, calling consumers ignorant is a stretch.

Admittedly there is clearly disagreement on what "obsolete" means. For some, obsolete is "it doesn't work well anymore". For others "there's a newer, better alternative, even if this still works". So maybe you don't perceive USB-A as obsolete and that's fair, but that's not good enough of a reason to invalidate the fact that there is still a newer, better alternative. And the fact that it's a desktop doesn't really change that. If your argument is that a desktop (even one like a Mac mini) doesn't need to be as portable as possible, then logically you could make the argument all desktops should come with PS/2 ports, a DisplayPort, VGA and HDMI port, and [inset other ports we've left behind mixed with current ones]. You might like that -- build your own computer then. Most don't care.

Let's not be redefining terms which have established meanings - obsolescence means simply the process of becoming no longer useful or no longer used.

USB-A by textbook definition is not obsolete. There is not a newer, better alternative to USB-A when it comes to every peripheral, I've stated this before and I've yet to see a rebuttal.

Desktops should come with ports that are most commonly used, that would include USB-A by a large margin.

 

[chucker23n1]

Seriously? I didn't think anyone ever debated an alternative to why they stuck with Lightning and its slow connection and lack of interoperability with other brands for so very long, aside from profit.

"People have existing cables and other devices (docks, whathaveyou) that use it" is a big reason.

 

[victorvictoria]

Pretty bold a statement for one that's completely false. I still have to use more USB-A connections than USB-C for work. I still have and use USB-A keyboard and mice and thumb drives personally too. I do have some USB-C things, but my USB-A devices far outnumber them even today. Some of those things I use don't even have a USB-C option I can find yet. Find me one of these that's USB-C: https://ftdichip.com/products/usb-rs485-we-1800-bt/ For work I often need to have more than one of these connected to my laptop at the same time while in a test cell. You know what ****ing sucks and add's unneccesary **** that has to sit on the desk next to my laptop at a test cell that get in the way of everything because the desk is too small? DONGLES...

Oops, you're right! I forgot that some people still have to work for a living, and their employers won't spend the money to upgrade the office tech.

 

[Nekronos]

Exactly. This "removing ports reduces e-waste" is baffling. No longer producing devices with connectors other than USB-C is what is needed- that change doesn't need to be driven by removing ports from a niche DESKTOP. Much more e-waste will be driven by buying new cables or adapters or hubs, or simply new devices. Turning useful things into junk is the definition of creating e-waste.

Maybe more legislation is needed, when you can still see brand new devices being sold that can only connect or charge via USB-A, which is crazy. I wouldn't buy that, but others will.

Yeah I don't even think legislation is needed, the free market works pretty effectively and legislation would just add to the e-waste issue. USB-C is already prevalent, it's just going to take time for consumers to ultimately transition from such a widely used and successful USB-A.

I think another thing people don't think about is that there are likely tons of product in the supply chain yet to be sold, USB-A is cheaper than USB-C and tons of people still buy 2nd hand, 3rd hand and so forth of devices. As more newer devices that utilize USB-C and USB-C peripherals become more entrenched in the used market, transition will keeping happening but who knows we might end moving past USB-C before USB-A dies given how resilient its been.

 

[chucker23n1]

USB-A by textbook definition is not obsolete.

It literally is. It still exists, but there won't be updates to it, and a successor exists.

 

[Nekronos]

It literally is. It still exists, but there won't be updates to it, and a successor exists.

You appear to be conflating the meaning of obsolete with something else.

 

[ric22]

"People have existing cables and other devices (docks, whathaveyou) that use it" is a big reason.

I'm not sure why you'd think money wasn't the bigger influence on Apple 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[ric22]

It literally is. It still exists, but there won't be updates to it, and a successor exists.

Except you're ignoring the primary dictionary definition and making your own. "No longer produced or used." They're certainly still used...

 

[chucker23n1]

I'm not sure why you'd think money wasn't the bigger influence on Apple 🤷🏼‍♂️

I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't think we're talking that much money.

 

[chucker23n1]

Except you're ignoring the primary dictionary definition and making your own. "No longer produced or used." They're certainly still used...

But that's really not how "obsolete" is used in IT. If a public API is "obsolete", it's still used. It signals that you shouldn't be using it any more.

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

Yeah, I wish USB-C was a true standard, rather than just a standardized connector. That is why I bought a few $20 e-chip cables that do high power AND high speed data when I first got a USB-C computer and discovered what a mess the "standard" was. That said, $2 cables for anything are usually fairly suspect.

I got iPhone 15 and iPad Air M2 and was forced to adapt to USB-C, so I upped my charging game and bought some 20W chargers to replace the 5W iPhone chargers from years past. At least I got some benefit from my cable replacements, and it wasn't very expensive after some bargain shopping.

Anker is fairly legit as far as I know. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C8HJCQTL

2 20W chargers, both USB-C port and USB-A port and 2 USB-C charging cables, $13 total on Amazon US. I bought them used like-new from Anker for $11. I like the USB-A flexibility for sure here. I also bought some Anker USB-A -> USB-C charging cables of various lengths ($3 to $7 each) to hook up to older chargers, etc, replace a lot of the lightning cables stashed everywhere. And some new plug in car charging adapters to replace some that where truly suspect.

Then I got a 5k2k monitor and hooked up my iPad with the good 40gb/s cable (not the one included with the iPad, so don't mix them up...) So yes, USB-C was an upgrade from lightning, on the iPad, because it can actually has a legit use case now. The iPad works great with my 5K2K monitor (which has a hub where I plug in my usb-A keyboard receiver) but I'm not quite ready to give up on Mac Mini or MacOS. I had some problems with streaming apps not playing on the monitor, but that was probably content restrictions.

 

[ric22]

Yeah I don't even think legislation is needed, the free market works pretty effectively and legislation would just add to the e-waste issue. USB-C is already prevalent, it's just going to take time for consumers to ultimately transition from such a widely used and successful USB-A.

I think another thing people don't think about is that there are likely tons of product in the supply chain yet to be sold, USB-A is cheaper than USB-C and tons of people still buy 2nd hand, 3rd hand and so forth of devices. As more newer devices that utilize USB-C and USB-C peripherals become more entrenched in the used market, transition will keeping happening but who knows we might end moving past USB-C before USB-A dies given how resilient its been.

Phillips still sell their electric razors with USB-A connectors, annoyingly. I have a 4 port adapter I travel with to charge all my stuff, and it's 3 USB-C and 1 USB-A. Last year there were people on here ranting and hating on that hub for still having one USB-A port- "just buy an adapter!". For whatever reason, neither of my razors will charge on USB-C ports with an adapter, nor will my toothbrush... something to do with a digital handshake someone suggested? Either way, I'm happy still having access to the odd USB-A port!!

 

[ric22]

But that's really not how "obsolete" is used in IT. If a public API is "obsolete", it's still used. It signals that you shouldn't be using it any more.

Maybe you're right specifically when it comes to APIs? You seem to be wrong in IT in general, though:

"Obsolete refers to outdated computer hardware, software, technology, services or practices that are no longer used, even if they are in working condition."

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/2115/obsolete

Outdated, yes, no longer used and obsolete? Not yet. We want it to be obsolete, but that'll only happen years after it's no longer produced and no longer used.

 

[ric22]

I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't think we're talking that much money.

"Additionally, Apple earned money by licensing third-party manufacturers who wanted to sell cables under the "Made for iPhones" (MFi) program. The commission and licensing fees constituted a significant portion of Apple's cable-related revenue, totalling a substantial 10 billion dollars."

Apple's Farewell to Lightning Cables As USB-C Takes Center Stage

Apple, the world's most valuable company, has once again introduced an updated range of products. Annually, in September, Apple hosts an event to unveil their top-selling product: the iPhone.

www.linkedin.com

 

[shatalin]

NEW 2024 M4 Mac Mini:

DIMENSIONS:
Height: 1.4 inches (36 mm)
Width: 3.9 inches (99 mm)
Depth: 3.9 inches (99 mm)

FINISH:
Silver (with a mirror logo on top)

CONNECTIONS AND EXPANSION:
front:
x2 (two) USB-C ports

back:
x2 (two) Thunderbolt 4 ports
HDMI port
1Gb Ethernet port
3.5 mm headphone jack
Power port: x1 (one) USB-C port for power only (marked with a power plug icon)
Power Button

Features:
- Active cooling
- External power supply with 30W USB-C Power Adapter (MW2G3AM)

Note: For reference google Geekom Mini PC and Apple TV 4K (1st generation)

Thoughts:
- The logo and the power cord could also be all black because Apple likes to market Mini with their Studio display and silver with black keyboard, mouse and trackpad.

 

[cjsuk]

NEW 2024 M4 Mac Mini:

DIMENSIONS:
Height: 1.4 inches (36 mm)
Width: 3.9 inches (99 mm)
Depth: 3.9 inches (99 mm)

FINISH:
Silver (with a mirror logo on top)

CONNECTIONS AND EXPANSION:
front:
x2 (two) USB-C ports

back:
x2 (two) Thunderbolt 4 ports
HDMI port
1Gb Ethernet port
3.5 mm headphone jack
Power port: x1 (one) USB-C port for power only (marked with a power plug icon)
Power Button

Features:
- Active cooling
- External power supply with 30W USB-C Power Adapter (MW2G3AM)

Note: For reference google Geekom Mini PC and Apple TV 4K (1st generation)

Thoughts:
- The logo and the power cord could also be all black because Apple likes to market Mini with their Studio display and silver with black keyboard, mouse and trackpad.

Interesting concept. The thing needs to kick out 100W really over USB-C for it to be even remotely useful. I am not sure how they are going to cram that power supply in a package as small as quoted so I suspect it'll either have a power brick or be bigger.

 

[cjsuk]

"Additionally, Apple earned money by licensing third-party manufacturers who wanted to sell cables under the "Made for iPhones" (MFi) program. The commission and licensing fees constituted a significant portion of Apple's cable-related revenue, totalling a substantial 10 billion dollars."

Apple's Farewell to Lightning Cables As USB-C Takes Center Stage

Apple, the world's most valuable company, has once again introduced an updated range of products. Annually, in September, Apple hosts an event to unveil their top-selling product: the iPhone.

www.linkedin.com

There is no conspiracy here.

Apple are part of the USB-IF consortium and were instrumental in the design and architecture of USB-C and Thunderbolt. It takes a long time to move every product over and they are working on it with or without the EU's nudging. I suspect the timeline would have been exactly the same if the EU hadn't even got involved.

 

[ric22]

There is no conspiracy here.

Apple are part of the USB-IF consortium and were instrumental in the design and architecture of USB-C and Thunderbolt. It takes a long time to move every product over and they are working on it with or without the EU's nudging. I suspect the timeline would have been exactly the same if the EU hadn't even got involved.

So you don't think Apple liked earning money from Lightning? There's no conspiracy, obviously. They wanted a proprietary connector on their phones and tablets because it brought in tons of cash for them, and they kept it around for ages after they transitioned to USB-C on MacBooks.

USB-C and Lightning were both designed at the same time, with designs made public weeks apart. Apple could have chosen to peruse a different course from the very outset.

 

[chucker23n1]

Maybe you're right specifically when it comes to APIs? You seem to be wrong in IT in general, though:

I mean, I guessssss.

"Obsolete refers to outdated computer hardware, software, technology, services or practices that are no longer used, even if they are in working condition."

I'd say "still used, but any new investment into it is discouraged".

Use "deprecated" as a term instead. Either way, that's my opinion of where USB-A is headed. They're not adding PD to it, or the speeds of USB4, and so on. It still works, and likely will for a long time. But you shouldn't design a new product around it.

Now, should the Mac mini feature ports with it? That's clearly controversial in this thread. It sure would add convenience. But it would also signal that it'll continue to be "current" for a while.