Mac OS X 10.5.6 Development Wrapping Up?

[kaiwai]

I'm yet to see OpenGL 3.0 on Mac OS X.

Considering that 3.0 has just been finalised, there is no OpenGL 3.0 hardware as far as I know, and MESA (the opensource implementation of OpenGL) hasn't implemented it yet - its going to be a while.

I guess deep down inside I would have loved to see DirectX be 100% openstandards - rather than it being proprietary; then again, OpenGL seems to do everything the graphic boffins apparently need it to do.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Snow Leopard and whether they upgrade the whole thing to OpenGL 3.0; I'd be pretty damn disappointed if they couldn't do something as basic as updating OpenGL - they've had long enough!

 

[ppc750fx]

It seems like a lot of folks have had issues with Mail.app, which is odd, because I've actually been pleasantly surprised with the stability of Mail.app in Leopard. When I was using some early builds of Leopard, Mail.app was absurdly unstable (so much so that I actually spent the time to figure out a way to replace Mail.app 3.0 with Mail.app 2.x from Tiger), but I was pleased to see that all the issues were gone in the RTM build.

I've got an archive mailbox with 7000+ messages. This mailbox started on a machine running Evolution (the Linux mail client) back in 2004, migrated to Thunderbird, then to Panther's Mail.app, then back to Thunderbird, then to Tiger's Mail.app, then to GNUMail, then to Thunderbird, then back to Tiger's Mail.app, and finally to Leopard. And you know what? It works great. All 7000+ messages, indexed and readily accessible.

I have found that vacuuming the "Envelope Index" (i.e. sqlite3 database Mail.app uses to keep track of the messages in a mailbox) helps keep things tidy, so maybe that's it... but whatever the reason, I can't say I've seen any problems, even using Mail.app as heavily as I do.

 

[Digitalclips]

I hope they address the video drivers for the NVidia 8800 GT. After some weird results since getting one for my 8 Core recent model Mac Pro I discovered the card works flawlessly with a virgin install from Mac Pro's disk which is 10.5.1. Run the software updates and problems start. This with not much else installed. One test is trying to run Second Life full screen on a 30" ACD at the high setting in a window. (I know this is not a serious use but a great way to stress a video card). With 10.5.1 there are no problems, fluid fast graphics. Upgrade to 10.5.5 and random freezes occur. Not just on the application but the entire Mac freezes for about 5 to 10 seconds and this occurs every few minutes..

 

[morespce54]

I bet they change the light bulb in system preferences to be fluorescent. That should make my battery life increase, right?

LOL. At least, it would probably be "greener"...

 

[50548]

I agree. I just had to trash everything in my mail folder in the library to get the app to work again. Kept giving me the color wheel.

I haven't had a single problem with Mail ever since its Leopard release, so I have no idea what you guys are talking about...in fact, it's probably one of THE most solid and flawless apps on OS X these days...whereas Safari may have its occasional crash here and there with plugins or new releases, Mail does not even complain with each new point release.

 

[retro83]

I sure hope they update the drivers for my MacPro graphics. i have the uopgraded card in it and it cant even run the flury screensaver without a hickup every minute or so, so don't even think about HD content ,the files are on a raid drive that is more than capable of playing it back so it must be the drivers for the graphic card

Think yourself lucky, I have a Macbook with an X3100. It runs halflife 2 OK in Windows, but on OSX it can't even manage to magnify the 3D dock smoothly. Piss poor OSX drivers.

 

[Eric S.]

TUAW is reporting maybe Friday for 10.5.6, but they seem to be just making that up.

 

[seashellz]

When in Bloody Hell is Apple going to fix Disk Utility/Repair Permissions?
Ive seen a list of the new fixes-nothing mentioning DU in it...

In Tiger I could RP in 10-15 seconds! Really!
Waiting around for 5-10 mins is s real drag.

Developers: there may be some hidden clues you can glean as to WHY this is happening:

Download APPLEJACK-a well know system upkeep app that you use in single user mode.

Boot in SU, and at ROOT, type: APPLEJACK
While it is loading in SU mode,
you will see lines and lines of code scrolling up which contain the words:

EMERGENCY, (STOP RIGHT THERE-EMERGENCY?!) "could not find X; Found x but could not X it. Three attempts to do X, but failed, tried to find x but failed-will try to X, could not do this, could not find that, unable to"... etc

A whole lot of code implying something is not right.

THEN it starts listing the familiar warnings that we all see when you repair permissions in normal mode: "ACL found but not expected in Root
GUID-x installer has been modified and will not be repaired" etc etc etc
--------
WHY wont they fix this-its a glaringly obvious bug?
APPLE says to ignore it-
would you ignore a "low brake fluid" warning light in your car? granted this is not fatal-but what a unconcerned attitude APPLE has about it;

WARNINGs come up for a REASON. You dont usually ignore them

Now maybe there is nothing to worry about-but still-the Mollasses-in-January speed is very irksome.
At first they warned of a possible 30 minute wait- now 'it may take some time...'

"Go grab some coffee and a donut" should be added to the message

 

[IronRoses]

This ain't right!

I'm starting to think Leopard was supposed to be a disaster from the beginning. Think about it: Leopard has had update after date after update.

And so soon we are seeing OS X 10.6. Why? Oh yeah! to improve upon leopard performance and stability.
Why can't they just release a huge 1GB sys update to leopard with the stability and performance updates that are in snow leopard and scrap s/leopard?

I know why, to make more money.
I still beleive that Tiger was the best version of OS X i have ever used.
Leopard is like vista, a disaster area! They hav'nt fixed a hell of a lot of bugs and you know what? they never will either!

Apple are changing due to market share. Steve is becoming more and more arogent and idiotic and it's showing too.

They had better release leopard on the cheap as in, half the price of leopard, otherwise i will pirate it. I refuse to pay full price for an os which might aswell be a huge system patch for leopard.

I'm interested to see where the iPhone will go since the blackberry Storm is out. The BB keyboared (touch screen) destroys the pathetic keyboard on the iPhone. It gives feedback and click when you push it in. AND you can type on it. Iv'e sold my iPhone and today got myself a BB storm.

As off topic that last paragraph is it hopefully proves my point.
I hope to christ Apple to not go beyond microsoft in the markets because it'll go to their heads and they will become what microsoft is today.

A big fat failure releasing crap here and there.

A shame.....

 

[vansouza]

I'm starting to think Leopard was supposed to be a disaster from the beginning. Think about it: Leopard has had update after date after update.

And so soon we are seeing OS X 10.6. Why? Oh yeah! to improve upon leopard performance and stability.
Why can't they just release a huge 1GB sys update to leopard with the stability and performance updates that are in snow leopard and scrap s/leopard?

I know why, to make more money.
I still beleive that Tiger was the best version of OS X i have ever used.
Leopard is like vista, a disaster area! They hav'nt fixed a hell of a lot of bugs and you know what? they never will either!

Apple are changing due to market share. Steve is becoming more and more arogent and idiotic and it's showing too.

They had better release leopard on the cheap as in, half the price of leopard, otherwise i will pirate it. I refuse to pay full price for an os which might aswell be a huge system patch for leopard.

I'm interested to see where the iPhone will go since the blackberry Storm is out. The BB keyboared (touch screen) destroys the pathetic keyboard on the iPhone. It gives feedback and click when you push it in. AND you can type on it. Iv'e sold my iPhone and today got myself a BB storm.

As off topic that last paragraph is it hopefully proves my point.
I hope to christ Apple to not go beyond microsoft in the markets because it'll go to their heads and they will become what microsoft is today.

A big fat failure releasing crap here and there.

A shame.....

Wait a min... take some time to smell the roses... chill. Stick to the facts, just the facts... then learn some...

 

[motulist]

I'm starting to think Leopard was supposed to be a disaster from the beginning...

And so soon we are seeing OS X 10.6. Why?

Either you're a troll, or uninformed, or both. With the exception of Tiger (10.4), Snow Leopard (10.6) isn't coming out substantially sooner than any earlier versions of OS X did. Approximately, 10.0 to 10.1 took 6 months, 10.1 to 10.2 took slightly over a year, 10.2 to 10.3 took slightly over a year, 10.3 to 10.4 took a year and a half, 10.4 to 10.5 took 2 and a half years, and now 10.5 has already been out for more than a year and 10.6 isn't going to be out for at least another few months. So in fact Leopard's life span until Snow Leopard comes out may be one of the LONGER spans that Apple has kept any OS X for.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#Versions

 

[Eric S.]

I'm starting to think Leopard was supposed to be a disaster from the beginning. Think about it: Leopard has had update after date after update.

Just like every other version of OS X had update after update. Hmm, must be a conspiracy.

And so soon we are seeing OS X 10.6. Why? Oh yeah! to improve upon leopard performance and stability.

So soon? Well, it's not out yet. In spite of recent rumor I still believe it will be more like mid-'09. In any case, it's not out of line with the time between other OS X releases, except for Leopard which was long delayed due to software development for the first iPhone release.

And 10.6 will still contain major new features. The idea that a "feature" has to be some whiz-bang desktop thingie is just wrong. 10.6 has plenty of new stuff; it's just below the surface.

Why can't they just release a huge 1GB sys update to leopard with the stability and performance updates that are in snow leopard and scrap s/leopard?

I know why, to make more money.

Well yeah, it is to make more money but not in the way that you imply. The fact is that increasing system performance by employing faster and faster CPUs is hitting a ceiling. Better future performance will require more CPUs in a system, plus taking advantage of spare GPU cycles. These are capabilities that Snow Leopard will bring, for the new machines that will be unveiled in the next few years. So Snow Leopard is designed to make money, by encouraging users to buy newer, faster systems.

I still beleive that Tiger was the best version of OS X i have ever used.

If it works great for you, stick with it. If at some point you decide you need a newer Mac, you'll want the performance enhancements of Snow Leopard, or of 10.7 or 10.8 or whatever.

Leopard is like vista, a disaster area! They hav'nt fixed a hell of a lot of bugs and you know what? they never will either!

I use both Tiger and Leopard. I find them both to be very solid. I'm sure they both have lots of bugs that will never be fixed though, just like any other OS. But remember that Tiger is fully mature at 10.4.11, Leopard is still at 10.5.5. I believe we'll still see three or four more Leopard updates before 10.6.

(Rest of rant ignored.)

 

[Quillz]

Shouldn't people be complaining if Leopard has had no updates, rather than complaining because Leopard has had too many updates? It seems backwards to complain that a company is supporting their operating system.

 

[doug in albq]

I'm starting to think Leopard was supposed to be a disaster from the beginning. Think about it: Leopard has had update after date after update.

And so soon we are seeing OS X 10.6. Why? Oh yeah! to improve upon leopard performance and stability.
Why can't they just release a huge 1GB sys update to leopard with the stability and performance updates that are in snow leopard and scrap s/leopard?

I know why, to make more money.
I still beleive that Tiger was the best version of OS X i have ever used.
Leopard is like vista, a disaster area! They hav'nt fixed a hell of a lot of bugs and you know what? they never will either!

Apple are changing due to market share. Steve is becoming more and more arogent and idiotic and it's showing too.

They had better release leopard on the cheap as in, half the price of leopard, otherwise i will pirate it. I refuse to pay full price for an os which might aswell be a huge system patch for leopard.

I'm interested to see where the iPhone will go since the blackberry Storm is out. The BB keyboared (touch screen) destroys the pathetic keyboard on the iPhone. It gives feedback and click when you push it in. AND you can type on it. Iv'e sold my iPhone and today got myself a BB storm.

As off topic that last paragraph is it hopefully proves my point.
I hope to christ Apple to not go beyond microsoft in the markets because it'll go to their heads and they will become what microsoft is today.

A big fat failure releasing crap here and there.

A shame.....

Spot on. I think the exact same thing. A sham/e really.

 

[vansouza]

I hear another beta is out tonight... again No Issues.

 

[Catfish_Man]

WARNINGs come up for a REASON. You dont usually ignore them

Actually, in Adium's debug logs (I'm an Adium developer), I do ignore most of them. The bulk of our logs are either diagnostic (i.e. if something *does* go wrong, the information in them could be useful) or for tracking down specific issues that aren't the ones I'm working on.

One could argue that means we need to improve our logging system, of course

<edit> Another example: Xcode spams Console with a ton of memory-management warnings. It turns out that all those warnings mean is "if this app wasn't running with garbage collection on, it would be leaking memory". Annoying, but irrelevant unless Xcode was a dual-mode app, which it's not.
</edit>

 

[G4DP]

I'm starting to think Leopard was supposed to be a disaster from the beginning. Think about it: Leopard has had update after date after update.

And so soon we are seeing OS X 10.6. Why? Oh yeah! to improve upon leopard performance and stability.
Why can't they just release a huge 1GB sys update to leopard with the stability and performance updates that are in snow leopard and scrap s/leopard?

I know why, to make more money.
I still beleive that Tiger was the best version of OS X i have ever used.
Leopard is like vista, a disaster area! They hav'nt fixed a hell of a lot of bugs and you know what? they never will either!

Apple are changing due to market share. Steve is becoming more and more arogent and idiotic and it's showing too.

They had better release leopard on the cheap as in, half the price of leopard, otherwise i will pirate it. I refuse to pay full price for an os which might aswell be a huge system patch for leopard.

This is pretty accurate. The speed and stability should have been in Leopard from the beginning. The fact that they are using 'Leopard' in the name again tells us something. Even Apple aren't bothering to hide the fact that they are just screwing us over.

Now this is something anyone with a brain in Redmond should really have picked up on.

Leopard only half the OS you were promised, etc etc.

I personally haven't had any problems with Leopard. Granted my 500MHz G4DP with 1GBSDRAM is faster at CS3 than my Dual-Quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro with 10GB RAM is a pain in the ass.

 

[BigTRQ]

Have they fixed sleep issues with MacBooks? Since 10.5.4, my MacBook (Mid-2007, 2.16 GHz C2D) will not sleep when open, either on battery power, or on AC adapter power. The Genius Bar is zero help on this issue.

 

[Eric S.]

This is pretty accurate. The speed and stability should have been in Leopard from the beginning. The fact that they are using 'Leopard' in the name again tells us something. Even Apple aren't bothering to hide the fact that they are just screwing us over.

So if they'd just named it, say, Cougar, they would have fooled everybody? Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder how they could have missed that.

 

[Rt&Dzine]

Granted my 500MHz G4DP with 1GBSDRAM is faster at CS3 than my Dual-Quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro with 10GB RAM is a pain in the ass.

Are you joking? (sometimes I'm dense) My single-quad 2.8 Mac Pro with 10GB RAM blows away my 500 Mhz G4 with 1.25GB using CS3. And CS3 works so much better on Leopard than Tiger. Everything does.

 

[G4DP]

Eric, what is your actual point?

Because you post doesn't actually say anything? Do you think Leopard has been a great success? Or do you agree it was a half-assed attempt at an OS?

Rt&Dzine, the only thing about running CS3 on the Mac Pro is you can use all the apps instead off 75% of them. Leopard is a lot slower than Tiger. My old G4 started up in under 20 seconds. This Mac Pro takes considerably longer.

 

[Rt&Dzine]

Rt&Dzine, the only thing about running CS3 on the Mac Pro is you can use all the apps instead off 75% of them. Leopard is a lot slower than Tiger. My old G4 started up in under 20 seconds. This Mac Pro takes considerably longer.

Photoshop opens in 2-3 seconds on Mac Pro. It takes 20 seconds to open on G4. Everything is so much faster on Mac Pro and Leopard.

Sorry to get off topic!

 

[Eric S.]

Eric, what is your actual point?

To point out how ridiculous your argument was.

Because you post doesn't actually say anything?

I figured the sarcasm was obvious.

Do you think Leopard has been a great success? Or do you agree it was a half-assed attempt at an OS?

Absolutely not. Leopard is a terrific OS. I run it on both my eight year-old G4 tower and my new Intel Macbook with no major issues. I started using it at version 10.5.2; it may have had some glitches when first released, all initial OS releases do. I haven't had any problems.

 

[MrCrowbar]

Think yourself lucky, I have a Macbook with an X3100. It runs halflife 2 OK in Windows, but on OSX it can't even manage to magnify the 3D dock smoothly. Piss poor OSX drivers.

That's an issue with Leopard. On my Macbook (GMA 950 graphics) the dock magnified beautifolly on Tiger. It's one of the first things I noticed about Leopard, it's ugly when magnifying.

 

[hwojtek]

Now this is something anyone with a brain in Redmond should really have picked up on. Leopard only half the OS you were promised, etc etc.

"Windows XP - only the 1/4th of the OS you were promised"
"Windows XP SP1 - only the 1/3rd of the OS you were promised"
(...)
"Windows XP SP3 - the OS you were promised. Now move on to Vista, the 1/4th of the OS we promise today!"

my 500MHz G4DP with 1GBSDRAM is faster at CS3 than my Dual-Quad 2.8GHz Mac Pro with 10GB RAM is a pain in the ass.

Wanna trade the Mac Pro for a 500DP? I pay the shipping.