Mac OS X 10.5 Details?

[minimax]

I'm a recent switcher and I can't believe what I'm reading! You guys must be kidding! I've used Windows 3.1, 3.11, 95. 98, 2K and XP and I can tell you that OS x is incomparable to Windows in ease of use, stability, ascetics and architecture. The union of hardware and software has been an absolute delight to use, and merely the fact that the firewall is rock solid and I have no issues with viruses and spyware makes it a no-brainer before all else.

I was using my work-issued Windows XP IBM the other day and it arbitrarily decided that it wouldn't recognise my USB attached HP laserjet any longer - it's been directly attached to that machine for 9 mths without a problem, but one day it decided it wouldn't work. Just like that. no reason. My neighbour bought a new Logitech USB mouse. Not sophisticated, just a regular mouse. Scroll wheel won't work. Driver's loaded, hardware wizard run through, choices made. just won't work. Why? Who knows.

Believe me. Mac OS X is the best operating system on the market. You guys really need to learn when you're on a good thing. When the alternative can't run something as fundamental as a mouse without ballsing it up, there's something wrong.

so let me get this straight, you are a recent user to OSX but you want to teach experienced and pro users (not me btw) how they should enjoy OSX? They shouldnt be complaining about very real issues they are encountering on a day to day basis? Get real

 

[Marky_Mark]

so let me get this straight, you are a recent user to OSX but you want to teach experienced and pro users (not me btw) how they should enjoy OSX? They shouldnt be complaining about very real issues they are encountering on a day to day basis? Get real

No, I just think that people should get a sense of perspective and not fall into the trap of 'familiarity breeds contempt'. Mac OSX is streets ahead of anything else and although it may have it's quirks, these are cosmetic and very minor in comparison to fundamental issues with the competition.

I'm not getting into this - try the alternatives if you don't believe me. If someone genuinely thinks that a nice-to-have on networking outweighs the reasonable expectation for a mouse's buttons to work as expected then so be it.

I don't. Flame me all you like.

 

[hyperpasta]

Whoa!

My big complaint about the Finder is that there are so many things that started, and then have been left without any updates at all. Column View is a great example of that. We're four major revising into OS X, and almost nothing has really been updated about Column View in that entire time. As somebody who uses CV a lot, it is really frustrating, because there are too many times that I have to swap back and fourth between different types of views, just to do simple things that should be able to be done in CV.

Below is a (now somewhat old) mock-up I made of an idea for a new Finder. The point isn't to bring in ALL of those ideas, the point was just to bring up a host of different ideas of what maybe could be done. A few things I'd really like to see are:


(And before anybody says "I don't want that option!", I'd want to see everything optional, so that you don't have to use it if you don't want to.)

Sidebar Sets
The four animal (could be any character) buttons above the sidebar. The idea was that maybe you could have different sets of sidebar items. For example, if I'm working on a website project, I could have one set link to all of the folders I want quick access to that pertain to that website.

MORE ITEM INFO!
I really wish Apple would get on the ball with this. I should be able to have item info up for nearly everything, to provide more feedback instead of having to hunt for it. Why can't my drives tell me how much free space they have? Why can't items in column view have item info so that I don't have to click on each single item, or switch to a different view? Get more use out of item info.

Sorting Options for Column View
In my example, I have one column sorted by folders, then files. Or, have everything sorted by size, or number of items in the folder. Combine this with the extended item info I mentioned above.

Image Previews Direct in Column
I can have a folder in Icon View show me previews for every image contained in it. I want the same for Column View, so I don't have to, again, click on things one at a time to find exactly what I'm looking for, or switch to Icon View.

Of course, with the fact that OS X doesn't even remember how wide I want columns generally between restarts, it seems like Apple doesn't give a damn about making Column View better.

We'll see what happens with the Finder. I'm not much of a Windows fan, but it really seems like the Windows Explorer offers so many features and different options for browsing files and folders, and it makes OS X look a bit sad in comparison. I hope and prey Apple gets serious about the Finder.

Beyond that, give me the ability to tag anything and everything with any kind of metadata I want (no, again, Spotlight comments AREN'T THE SAME THING), and let me show all of my metadata columns in the Finder, ala iTunes.

Whoa, nice. Can you do that in the Dark Platinum iTunes look? Maybe make the animal buttons take up part of the sidebar?

 

[minimax]

No, I just think that people should get a sense of perspective and not fall into the trap of 'familiarity breeds contempt'. Mac OSX is streets ahead of anything else and although it may have it's quirks, these are cosmetic and very minor in comparison to fundamental issues with the competition.

I'm not getting into this - try the alternatives if you don't believe me. If someone genuinely thinks that a nice-to-have on networking outweighs the reasonable expectation for a mouse's buttons to work as expected then so be it.

I don't. Flame me all you like.

I have never had any problems with mice under XP. Further, in XP my mouse responds smooth, constant and with precision. All mice I tried under OSX behave like they have freaking cerebral palsy.
It's not like OSX never has any issues with drivers and such. It is also not relevant to this topic. It is about certain features that would improve the functionability of OSX.

 

[nagromme]

MORE ITEM INFO!
I really wish Apple would get on the ball with this. I should be able to have item info up for nearly everything, to provide more feedback instead of having to hunt for it. Why can't my drives tell me how much free space they have? Why can't items in column view have item info so that I don't have to click on each single item, or switch to a different view? Get more use out of item info.

Sorting Options for Column View
In my example, I have one column sorted by folders, then files. Or, have everything sorted by size, or number of items in the folder. Combine this with the extended item info I mentioned above.

Image Previews Direct in Column
I can have a folder in Icon View show me previews for every image contained in it. I want the same for Column View, so I don't have to, again, click on things one at a time to find exactly what I'm looking for, or switch to Icon View.

Three simple but very useful additions. I've long wanted the first two. never thought about the third, but it's a good idea too.

http://apple.com/feedback

And re the Dock:

* Make Dock folders spring-load like any other

* Make minimized folder icons accept drop files, and spring-load

* Make the Dock functional in Exposé, so when you're in Exposé and click something, it de-Exposés and does what you clicked

* Pre-cache Dock folders so they snap open instantly on Ctrl/right-click (not, obviously, on click-hold)

* Add a live loading progress bar to minimized web pages, and make web pages update live like QT movies do (at least a pref for that in Safari)

* Make the Trash more universal (it's "almost universal" now, but mainly works for Finder). If ANY app puts something in there, that something should become a clipping file that gets put in the Trash. Allow dragging it BACK from the trash to any app. If Trash is part of Finder, but active in all apps, then TRULY integrate its functions with Finder--and clippings are a mechanism ready to do just that. For apps that can't store a clipping for whatever reason, a warning "will be deleted immediately" would show up. The Trash would ALWAYS work for deleting ANYTHING that can be dragged in ANY program. With clippings so you can change your mind, as often as possible.

* Put the Applications folder in the dock by default. They have a default example of a link, but no example of a folder! Many people won't even think to try putting a folder in the Dock, and it's really useful, especially with right-click. And new users always have trouble finding "the rest of the apps" or think there ARE no apps except the default ones in the Dock. Best of all, the Application folder in the Dock even works like the Start menu (but better) if you right-click it. Drill through ALL your apps. Easy to toss the folder if you don't like it there, but as a power-user I use it ALL the time, and I think newcomers need it.

And one general request:

Give NEW documents a proxy icon. Maybe with a dotted outline, or something. Drag that to anyplace in the Finder to save the document (or save a copy if already saved). A sheet would ask you for a name, or else the file would just come up in Finder with a name field active. Drag-and-save! A logical extension of what proxy icons already can do. (My favorite CURRENT function: drag the proxy icon of an open Finder window into any Save dialog. Drop it anywhere and the dialog goes there. Great when I have a project folder open and start creating files.)

 

[50548]

I'm a recent switcher and I can't believe what I'm reading! You guys must be kidding! I've used Windows 3.1, 3.11, 95. 98, 2K and XP and I can tell you that OS x is incomparable to Windows in ease of use, stability, ascetics and architecture. The union of hardware and software has been an absolute delight to use, and merely the fact that the firewall is rock solid and I have no issues with viruses and spyware makes it a no-brainer before all else.

I was using my work-issued Windows XP IBM the other day and it arbitrarily decided that it wouldn't recognise my USB attached HP laserjet any longer - it's been directly attached to that machine for 9 mths without a problem, but one day it decided it wouldn't work. Just like that. no reason. My neighbour bought a new Logitech USB mouse. Not sophisticated, just a regular mouse. Scroll wheel won't work. Driver's loaded, hardware wizard run through, choices made. just won't work. Why? Who knows.

Believe me. Mac OS X is the best operating system on the market. You guys really need to learn when you're on a good thing. When the alternative can't run something as fundamental as a mouse without ballsing it up, there's something wrong.

Tks, Mark, at last some lucid mind in this thread...if Apple took all complaints and "criticisms" of the whining club into consideration, it would end up developing a beta OS forever, since it would be impossible to deliver a final version at all...

I remember the same group of people saying that Exposé was just eye-candy back then...but now they can't live without it. Ditto for Spotlight or even Dashboard, perfectly integrated into the OS and useful for virtually every Mac user out there. I still remember trying to search for something in Panther, waiting for who-knows-how-many seconds to see a result...Spotlight, even with some minor flaws, is undeniably one of these improvements you can't live without.

I've bought a Mac Mini for my Dad, and he is just starting to love Mac OS...TRUE p-n-p printing and USB connections, NO viruses or malware, built-in PDF support everywhere and a clean interface...no, these things do not exist on a PC.

Again, to the whining club: improvements will always be possible...but try to see the full half of the glass, instead of the opposite; you're gonna feel much better in the end.

 

[shidoshi]

Whoa, nice. Can you do that in the Dark Platinum iTunes look? Maybe make the animal buttons take up part of the sidebar?

I've been meaning to whip up a more up to date example anyhow, so I'll give it a shot later.

Again, to the whining club: improvements will always be possible...but try to see the full half of the glass, instead of the opposite; you're gonna feel much better in the end.

Bitching is what gets things done. Sitting around saying how wonerful Mac OS X is produces nothing. Complaining about its shortcomings makes people think about honest fixes to them, and gives the community (and Apple) an idea of what people want to see done.

As well, plain and simple, if a company is lazy about something, they need to be called on it.

 

[DakotaGuy]

* It will be PowerPC compatible (I know some have worried about that. But we know this due to the overlap with the CPU transition timetable. Not that later versions of OS X can't also be PPC-

I am sure it will be compatible, but do you think they are really going to mess with trying to optimize the performance for PPC anymore? My guess is their focus will be on Intel and not PPC and Alti-Vec. They will figure as long as it runs on a PPC it should keep the customer happy. To get the best performance I am sure you will need to have an Intel Inside.

 

[Krizoitz]

Couple things.

First, to the people who want the Finder to be more like Windows Explorer, I have the following to say:

You've got to be KIDDING ME!!!

I work with Windows on a daily basis and every night I get to come home to my nice clean MacOS. No bloat, no horrible UI, just a good clean interface. Like many MS products the Explorer crams way to much into an ugly interface and does so poorly.

Second, Longhorn/Vista

It certainly is improved over XP from what little I have been able to play with the betas, but its still no where near Panther, let alone Tiger. There are too many inconsistencies and too many poor UI choices. Its better than Windows has been, but that doesn't make it OS X's equal.

 

[50548]

Bitching is what gets things done. Sitting around saying how wonerful Mac OS X is produces nothing. Complaining about its shortcomings makes people think about honest fixes to them, and gives the community (and Apple) an idea of what people want to see done.

As well, plain and simple, if a company is lazy about something, they need to be called on it.

Question is: is the company "lazy" about something? I don't think so.

 

[shidoshi]

Question is: is the company "lazy" about something? I don't think so.

A company itself cannot be lazy, because it is not a living being. Saying that is "lazy" is more in the general sense of a company not paying attention to things that it should be, or starting something and then not finishing it. Column View in the Finder isn't finished - no way in the world does it feel so. Apple going four major revisions without putting more work into Column View is "lazy." Apple tossing in a bunch of half-assed options, and then not tightening them up is "lazy."

You can argue semanticas, but you know what I mean.

 

[Marky_Mark]

I think you're pushing things a bit to accuse a company who has refreshed pretty much their entire hardware and software lineup in the last 6-9 mths as being lazy. I agree with you 100% that continuous improvement is absolutely fundamental to Apple's health, but just because their priorities don't match yours, doesn't mean they don't walk the walk. I'd say that Dashboard and Spotlight are of more immediate benefit to more people than remembering a column width, for example.

New PowerMacs, iMacs, iBooks, iLife, OS, iPods, iTMS, mice and keyboards, just to name a few.

The only notable exception is the Powerbook line, but look on the bright side, they're a pretty sure bet to be the first MacTel platform before the end of the spring.

 

[fklehman]

Squeaky Wheel effect. Human nature is to post when there's a problem. People are far less likely to bother posting just to say "all is well"--and yet we get those Tiger comments too! An online forum will make ANY product seem more trouble-prone than reality.

Quite a good point here. I've had to remind myself of this more than once when I was almost scared away from a product because a lot of people were complaining about it. You just have to remember that people who aren't having any problems are WAY less likely to be getting on forums to talk about their experiences. I can remember researching G4 CPU upgrades and combo/superdrive upgrades for my Pismo on XLR8yourmac.com, and somebody had something bad to say about nearly everything. You just have to consider which problems seem typical and which ones don't. All kinds of problems are theoretically possible, but far fewer are really probable.

 

[dogbone]

Use the force quit option to stop an app from loading - accessible by right clicking on the Apps Dock icon.

( Depending on the app - it will quit there and then or quit after the app has loaded ).

Brilliant

That's the best tip I've seen in ages. I see the 'force quit' option is only available during launch. I've assigned the rear rocker switch on my pen to 'control'. Works really well.

 

[gMac]

Image Previews Direct in Column
I can have a folder in Icon View show me previews for every image contained in it. I want the same for Column View, so I don't have to, again, click on things one at a time to find exactly what I'm looking for, or switch to Icon View.

You may already be aware of QuickImage, but if not here is a link:

http://www.pixture.com/

 

[redAPPLE]

How about a freaking package removal tool? A TON of apps are being installed with packages these days, and there is no way to remove them without some 3rd party hack or riskscrewing everything up.

How can OSX Claim to be the most advanced Operating System with simple things such as 'uninstallation of applications' missing? Come on!! PLEASE???

there should be a way to tell Apple, of os requests...

 

[MontyZ]

.

 

[macnulty]

I suggest do What Dock Extender did (and has been broken sicne late panther releases). Make Folders that allow you to put several Apps in that folder, and allow the user to give the folder a custom icon and organize the apps as they see fit.

Good insight! I've been thinking the same thing since I can't use Dock Extender anymore.

Just create a folder, give it a name and icon, drop some application aliases into it, then drag it to the dock.

It sometimes seems that alot of the complaints about OSX (other then bugs or UI) are related to how actions are not automatic or built in or require some effort to do. I guess there is something to be said for not adding complexity to the system if you don't have to. People have an amazing ability to learn.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger isn't terrible?

 

[aswitcher]

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger isn't terrible?

No

 

[rolandf]

Direction 3D desktop

It is quite noticeable that Apple is introducing more and more 3D effects.
The most visible one is in FrontRow, that reminds me of SUN's Looking Glass project.
But 3D should really improve the interaction with the computer and not just only serve as
eye candy.

The foundation to go into that direction is given by the "core" technieques like Core Image, etc.

Also, they should provide a UI that is screen resolution independent, i.e. automatically scales according
to the capabilities of the given output device.

However, I hope they will really push the OS into the 21-century, by improving speech and handwriting capabilities. So-far
that is poor.

They should provide again a more consistent UI; and as some of previous posts suggested,
allow for the possibility of themes, at least a pro-theme, e.g. crystal style (aqua)

Further, Dashboard is not the direction to go. Information should be bundled and not be splattered all around the
desktop.

In general, many of the apps should be integrated in a much tighter way, e.g. Address Book, Mail, Calendar,

Preview, Faxing, etc.

 

[BGil]

But like 10.0 I think Vista is going to be bug infested. Less then 10.0 though simply because of how MS releases beta software to EVERYONE and lets them test it ironing out bugs well before the final release. (I really wish Apple would adopt this method as well.) That being said one thing they aren't getting right is the interface. Yes its still a year away and could be tweaked but OMG. I hate the file explorer now. I think I know why MS is pushing up the minimum resolution. The File Explorer tries to take up as much space as possible. Its quite possibly the worse design I've never seen which seems to be the hallmark of Vista - Lets change everything in a way that makes absolutely NO FREAKING sense.

I don't see why you think Vista will be on 10.0 level of bugginess. Win2k, XP, and 2k3 were all very solid releases with exception to XP's default config (firewall off, weird services on, etc). Even with XP (pre-SP1) all you needed to do was turn on the firewall before you connected to the net and use something other than IE and you were fine. That config is even fairly safe today.
Win2k3 was nothing short of an awesome release on all fronts. It's extremely fast, stable, light, and extremely secure (even more so than popular linux distros and Apache 2.0).
Vista Beta 1 was much more stable than XP Beta 1 was and Vista runs faster on my system than XP does. I agree the new Explorer is kinda weird but I love it's flexibilty and power. The 5219 build really showcased how much more functionality the Document Explorer and Vista Search have over Tiger and Spotlight.

I do hope Vista IS good enough to push Apple even farther than they already push themselves. But Microsoft's history has long been one of "we're getting better, honest! THIS time, Simon Says!" But big plans don't always turn to ideal realities--witness all the big stuff MS has REMOVED from Vista just to get it out the door, even late. So it does feel like crying wolf until we see whether Vista really catches up to Tiger or not. (And then Leopard comes along anyway.)

I assume you're talking about WinFS. WinFS is way beyond anything Apple has in Tiger or probably planning for Leopard. The fact that it's in Beta now and will be in Beta 3 (which mean it will be deployable) at Vista launch instead of being rushed out the door is a fairly impressive thing IMO. Apple rushed Spotlight and now we have tons of problems and issues with it. They didn't even take the time to make it better than Windows Desktop Search. WinFS isn't being rushed because MS is trying to actually get things right rather than do what they've done in the past (which is what Apple did with Tiger).
You can install Vista Beta 1 and see that it's far ahead of Tiger in nearly everyway. It's unpolished right now but if Microsoft polishes the interface then... combined with the feature set in the ultimate edition (Virtual PC in the box and DVD/HD-DVD ripping!!!) they'll have a definite winner on their hands.
----
Anyone else notice that all the stuff Apple is rumored to be releasing for Leopard (or Tiger) is already in Vista? iChat document sharing, Spotlight-based Finder, poor-mans Media Center a.k.a FrontRow, resolution independence...? At this point I'm just hoping Apple doesn't half-bake Leopard to get it out the door against Vista

 

[Stridder44]

God yes, PLEASE!! I hope that Apple allows you to change your OS UI, at least the colors. And System Sounds! Like in OS 9! I mean theres 2 different themes, and I use the term theme loosely.


And Safari sucks eggs. Slow! After a couple of pages, it starts to get slow and pages with lots of images (say a photoshop contest thread) often doesn't even load HALF or even a quarter of the images. (clearing cache and whatnot doesnt help). Thank God for firefox.

But yes, Apple really needs to step up to the plate with 10.5, because if Vista, buggy or not, is going to be as crazy as some of you say, then Apple's OS might not look so hot.

 

[ryanw]

God yes, PLEASE!! I hope that Apple allows you to change your OS UI, at least the colors. And System Sounds! Like in OS 9! I mean theres 2 different themes, and I use the term theme loosely.


And Safari sucks eggs. Slow! After a couple of pages, it starts to get slow and pages with lots of images (say a photoshop contest thread) often doesn't even load HALF or even a quarter of the images. (clearing cache and whatnot doesnt help). Thank God for firefox.

But yes, Apple really needs to step up to the plate with 10.5, because if Vista, buggy or not, is going to be as crazy as some of you say, then Apple's OS might not look so hot.

It is bothering to me that Safari doesn't display the page until every single image has been loaded. Internet Explorer and Firefox and all the others attempt to render the page as the main INDEX has been loaded.

 

[generik]

A company itself cannot be lazy, because it is not a living being. Saying that is "lazy" is more in the general sense of a company not paying attention to things that it should be, or starting something and then not finishing it. Column View in the Finder isn't finished - no way in the world does it feel so. Apple going four major revisions without putting more work into Column View is "lazy." Apple tossing in a bunch of half-assed options, and then not tightening them up is "lazy."

You can argue semanticas, but you know what I mean.

Apple is not lazy.

It is compromising quality for extra profits.
It is scrimping on materials to save 1c per iPod Nano and now got a lawsuit on their hands.
It rushed Spotlight out in Tiger.
And of course where is the freescale 7448 on the PB?

But no, it is not "lazy"