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Mac OS X 10.5 Details?
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generik said:
Be careful about what you read...Tiger works GREAT out of the box, ever since version 10.4.0. The mentioned bugs are either specific to those persons' machines or a consequence of haxie installation or "archive and install" upgrades...improvements will always come to some outstanding issues (and 10.4.3 is almost ready now), but don't feel scared because a six-pack of unhappy people persistently posts bad things about Tiger in Mac forums...
I myself have never experienced most of the "bugs" that people talk about here; for me and million others, Tiger is simply the best OS around, make no mistake about it...
Just check if you'll ever make use of something really specific (like complex networking or interoperation needs), since some of the few issues are sometimes documented in places like this...for ordinary/daily operation, Tiger IS a delight to use...I cannot remember a single kernel panic error on both my iMac G5 and my iBook G3 under Tiger.
Heh. Loop Rumors has alla this info plus more I believe for quite sometime. Check them out:
http://www.looprumors.com
http://www.looprumors.com
generik said:
I switched a few months ago and Tiger is brillliant compared to XP. You won't notice anything wrong with it at all. Its really only users that have had previous versions of OS X that notice the problems. Coming from Windows Tiger will be amazing, you'll be asking yourself why you didn't switch sooner.
But they are right about one thing, Finder is crap.
generik said:
I switched to the Mac 12days ago and im up to date as of Mac Updates.
I have NOT had any "buggy" issues,only some beach-balls on safari but that's expected on iMac G3 400.. X.4.2 aka tiger up to date feels "more" safe than the 'other' 95% OS aka XPee..
On the 'Finder' issue, i think its "Easier" to nav through than "Windows Explorer"..
If you dont like "Finder" pane then Use "Spotlight" to do your searching for you..
iphil
Laptop syncing support
I seem to remember that portable directories (e.g. directories that sync with the network when connected and travel with you when you disconnect) was originally targeted for Tiger. Anyone heard anything about it for Leopard? It is one feature I wish Tiger had (as a multi-Mac user with a laptop, I'd like to not have to always think about what info is on what machine) and I don't want to pay for iMac service.
I seem to remember that portable directories (e.g. directories that sync with the network when connected and travel with you when you disconnect) was originally targeted for Tiger. Anyone heard anything about it for Leopard? It is one feature I wish Tiger had (as a multi-Mac user with a laptop, I'd like to not have to always think about what info is on what machine) and I don't want to pay for iMac service.
Finder really does need an overhaul. If you want to see what filemanager should be like, take a look at KDE's Konqueror. That's propably the most powerful filemanager on the planet. Not only can you manage your files with it, you can access remote filesystem like they were local filesystem really, really easily. And you can view the documents right in Konqueror. You can split the view in zillion ways and copy/move files at will between them.
Hell, you can encode mp3/ogg's/Flacs with it! Pop in an Audio CD, and look at it with Konqueror. You will see virtual folders called "mp3", "ogg", "Flac" "Wav" and others in it. How do you rip the CD to mp3 for example? Simply copy the contents of the "mp3" virtual folder to your HD, and it's encoded on the fly. Tracknames and others are automatically fetched from the net.
You can also use Konqueror to change settings of your system, view print-queues, read documentation etc. etc.
Konqueror is in reality a bit more than just a filemanager. It is a central tool for accessing the system. Finder could be something similar. Right now Finder is a poorly-performing tool for basic and simple filemanagement. And it could be so much more.
Hell, you can encode mp3/ogg's/Flacs with it! Pop in an Audio CD, and look at it with Konqueror. You will see virtual folders called "mp3", "ogg", "Flac" "Wav" and others in it. How do you rip the CD to mp3 for example? Simply copy the contents of the "mp3" virtual folder to your HD, and it's encoded on the fly. Tracknames and others are automatically fetched from the net.
You can also use Konqueror to change settings of your system, view print-queues, read documentation etc. etc.
Konqueror is in reality a bit more than just a filemanager. It is a central tool for accessing the system. Finder could be something similar. Right now Finder is a poorly-performing tool for basic and simple filemanagement. And it could be so much more.
{Off Topic}
You can always set a folder to be shared either across the internet or locally, i.e. the Public folder or the Drop Box etc...
The Drop Box method should be easy enough to figure out.
The internet method can be accomplished with free apps from such sites as MacUpdate and VersionTracker (both .com)
{On Topic}
Yeah.. The Finder is much friendlier than WinAsspolder.... Gooooo Apple!!
Good luck
You can always set a folder to be shared either across the internet or locally, i.e. the Public folder or the Drop Box etc...
The Drop Box method should be easy enough to figure out.
The internet method can be accomplished with free apps from such sites as MacUpdate and VersionTracker (both .com)
{On Topic}
Yeah.. The Finder is much friendlier than WinAsspolder.... Gooooo Apple!!
Good luck
Thats really cool.Evangelion said:
One of the things that I would like is automatic converting of formats in the open file windows. So like, say a website wants a jpg format 400x320, I dont have to export anything first, just select the file, and do some setting like "Open As" and "Convert" settings so if I open a tif, I just select, open as jpg and set convert to 400x320...
Or even other software can't open certain formats, you could just convert it on the fly when its opened...
ShiggyMiyamoto said:
In Konqueror that is built in, and it requires no hassle. An example:
I was using a Linux-machine running KDE at local library. I had to work on some files that resides on my home-computer (running Linux). What did I do? I typed this in to Konqueror:
fish://<My IP-number>
It created a SSH-connection to my home-computer. It asked for my username and password, and it then displayed the files on that computer. It was all 100% transparent, I could use those files like they were on the local computer. There was no need to set up public folders on either machine, nor was it needed to use third-party apps. Of course I could also move the files between the computers at will.
BRLawyer said:
lol, reminds me that I installed Tiger piss-ass drunk and it's still running fine - no major bugs for me.
How does you saying Vista won't be out until 2006 counter any point that I have made?
1. The list I made was a comparison of XP vs Vista because that was the topic brought up. You seem threatened enough to feel the need to have to protect your OS of choice even when OS X wasn't the topic at hand (as in the case of the list).
2. You are wrong on so many points that I don't even want to spend my time adressing them all. Needless to say you should research your answers before you post them.
WinFS is publically available now.
All those features (reading from data stores, multiple ifilters, FTP, hibernate etc.) are all features present in XP or current Microsoft apps, as I stated in the original post.
It does both, please do some research.
BTW, Windows Desktop Search was released on December 15, 2004 so does that earlier release date (in an of itself) make it better than something that was released later? No.
Spotlight hooks into the kernel, Windows Desktop Search/Windows built-in Indexing/Vista hooks into the filesystem. There's a difference. While the difference in result is minor in the majority of situations (local search) it makes all the difference when doing search on removable drives and non-local sources.
XP can fully accelerate HD content, do document sharing, edit ID3 tags, use ID3 tags or other metadata in the file browser, do granular file encryption, sort files in every view, manual processor scheduling, cut in the file system, write to FTP's, hibernate, or numerous other things. You did notice I made a list of things XP can do that OS X cannot, right? Do you remember what I was replying to? Someone said Tiger had every feature in Longhorn/Vista, so I poiinted out that Tiger doesn't even have every feature in XP so it can't possibly have everything in Vista.
27.7% of all retail PC's in August, 43% of all retail PC's in September. Doesn't sound like a flop to me. If that's a flop them all Macs are flops because Media Center PC's now sell more in a month than Macs sell in the better part of a year.
Are you even paying attention? The only person saying "revolutionary" is you (and in response to multiple individual points in stead of the "whole", I might add). Vista is, in fact, the biggest update in years because it's much bigger than any Apple update other than Classic Mac OS to OS X (2001) or Win9x to XP (also 2001).
It's rather absurd of you to be pointing out two individual features instead of the product as a whole. It would be akin to saying... "If you're honestily telling me "dashboard ripple" and "new screensavers" puts OS X over Windows, you're more of a fanboi than the rest of your post portrayed you as."Except for most of those features in the list I provided, you'd be correct.
Like I said, and like numerous people here have indiectly agreed with...
Vista 2006 is superior technologically to Tiger 2005. By responding to one of my statements by saying "but Vista won't be out until 2006" all you're doing is acknowledging that it is technologically superior. Whether it will be technologically superior to Leopard 2006/2007 remains to be seen.
Spell-checker.. yes
Dictionary... nothing has shown up in builds so far but the natural language stuff in Vista does have one (for Tablet and other features) so it's possible. Not likely though IMO.
Services menu? My services menu generally has most of the options greyed out 90% of the time and I've never found any use for it. Maybe if you described what you use it for then I could tell you if their is an equivelent in Vista.
Go to Winsupersite and take a look at the history of XP (Whistler). Features contiuned to pour in until after RC1. Vista isn't even at Beta 2 yet, doesn't include most of the end-user stuff (full implementations of MCE, Tablet, Movie Maker etc.) and the new Windows development process make it so features have to be of a certian quality at a certian time to make it into a build. That means that features not deemed for release in this build might make it in the next, or features not in RC1 might make it into RTM. Likewise it means that features not in RTM will be delievered later or separate from Vista, like WinFS.
The teams working on those new API's are all together different than teams working on other parts of Windows. One team hammering out bugs has nothing to do with another team implementing features.
90% of that is just a setting. You can change a setting, right? If you don't like how it's configured by default then change the settings, it's that simple. You can create limited user accounts with any flavor of NT (version 4 or up).
That is typical fanboy responses. You ignore ANY facts that might be relevant so you can show superiority. For instance, the first Thurrott statement is about the Longhorn development process on build 5203. Thurrott has since talked about Vista (in later builds) not being a train-wreck and in fact shaping up to be great but of course you probably just ignored that completely.
The second quote isn't even about Vista but XP.
Beta 1 for me has been stable although there are a fair amount of app crashes. No blue screens, which is amazing considering I'm running alpha quality drivers for video, sound, and networking. Vista Beta 1 is far more stable than XP was at this same stage, than the Tiger WWDC Developer Preview was, and far more stable than the Mactel Developer Box at work (not a hacked copy but the real thing rented from Apple).
Why? Games use DX9.
How are they rushing an Vista? when it's been 2.5 years building on Windows Server 2003 code when XP only took 18 months from being built on Windows 2000 (beta) code? And how is it "startign from scratch" if they're starting from Windows Server 2003 code? I think you misunderstand the concept of a "reset" and what was actually scrapped.
Teams work on their particular feature or feature set separate from Longhorn/Vista Builds. These features then get added ("checked in") to the main branch of code (the OS). The build itself is actually separate from the feature development of most teams. So when a build is created or scrapped it generally has little effect on any particular feature. Doing a "reset" just means that the Core OS team and the build team (people who check features into builds ) had to start over. The people actually working on specific features lost relatively little. All they needed to do was update their code to work with the Windows Server 2003 based build-- which often takes very little work.
Windows 2000 was available as well. 2000 is quite stable, even moreso than XP in many people's minds.
You have to scroll the same way in the Applications folder on the Mac so I don't see the difference. Spotlight's search isn't nearly as program friendly because it also brings you files as part fo your search. Try typing "Pho" into Spotlight and press enter. On my Vista machine that same keystroke combination lauches Photoshop CS2.
Likwise, Windows already has a "dock" for the quicklaunch bar. I fail to see how program launching in Tiger is as good as it is in Vista.
Yeah, sure
450+ million Vista PC's will ship in the first two years after it's release (200+ Million XP PC's will ship this year). More Vista PC's will ship in Nov.2006 than Apple will ship all of next year (or this year). In fact, more PC's ship in the week of Black Friday (the day after thanksgiving) than Apple will ship this year. I assume your definition of "flop" is relative because that would mean really bad things for Apple.Dude, I have a Mac and work on them all day. I know for a fact that Macs use installers too. Ever install an Apple Pro app or the Adobe Creative Suite? Like another poster pointed out earlier, Apple needs an installation program to help users get rid of things that can't just be removed by dragging to the trash. Likewise, many apps on Windows don't use installers (Daemon tools being one that I use a lot). There is no requirement that makes all Windows apps use installers.
Having an installer and a registry avoids the problems other users were complaining about earlier (not being able to remove all installed pieces of an app) and things like the "Open with" function. Notice how in OS X it drops you into the applications folder which might possibly require you to drill into other folders or go somewhere else to locate a particular app (many apps will reside on the desktop because that's where safari puts them or on an external drive). Windows gives you a list of all installed applications no matter where they are because the registry keeps a list of them. In 2005, the registry provides more advantages than disadvantages. Registry problems on XP are few and far between, in fact I haven't ever had any.
Spotlight's idea is based upon the Longhorn desktop search. Although, yes, the search-as-you type was definitely popularized by iTunes (I don't recall seeing it anywhere else before that).
Yeah, because all photo managing apps are a rip-off of iPhoto and Picasa
Especially the ones that are based on apps (Microsoft digital image suite) that existed before Picasa or iPhoto.Stacks, Castles, Virtual folder heirarchies, and metadata heirarchies. Is that better?
Only smaller files not larger ones.
I though you said you didn't go on talking about future Mac stuff? What's worse is that you don't even know if Macs will be using flash memory for anything as Apple hasn't said anything. You're just making stuff up. At least with Windows, PC's, and Microsoft, you know what is coming and don't have to make stuff up. It seems to me that the only reason you aren't going on about Leopard is that you don't know anything about it. I was around here back when Tiger was released and that's all the talk was about... the future. In fact, most of this site deals with future Mac products (which often don't ever come to fruition) and most of the thread in some of these forum deal with those topics as well. I'm sure that you would be hyping Leopard if you actually knew something about it so don't try to jump on me because Microsoft has released information about Vista nd Apple hasn't released anything about Leopard.
Oh yeah, Vista supports Instant booting via flash chips.
do you know how many machines consitutes 35%? For some perspective, Macs are 2%.
The Mac interface, even with Quartz 2D turned on, is not resolution independent. The interface is still written alomst entirely in pixels and simply scaled to larger (or smaller) sizes. That's not the same as something that is resolution independent (i.e. not written in pixels at all).
No. CoreData doesn't give you a database back-end (either Jet or WinFS styple) to anything in the Mac OS. And it damn sure doesn't power the Finder.
It is a feature of the OS it's just hardware dependent. CoreXXX, DirectX, and OpenGL all fall under the same category.
Except for the Windows/Microsoft specification and API's needed to access it. Hardware doesn't do this by itself and the Mac OS still can't do it at all.
Power-users will. This is the thing that allows you to custom build Windows Images. You can custom build an image to be small and streamlined like a very small Linux distro or XP embedded all the way up to a fully loaded install of Vista. You can configure an image anyway you want by simply editing the compressed image with the new tools.
As opposed to the Mac OS with no ripping tools or (HD)DVD copying software at all? Right
Well considering neither iDVD nor iMovie come with OS X anymore I'd say they surpassed Apple by an infinite amount. If iLife came with OS X then you might have a point.
Power-Users! Tons of Mac users run VPC everyday and now you're telling me Windows users won't care about it?
MSH was created as an evolution to conventional Unix shells. So you're basically comparing the old version to the new version.
You mean like iTunes? iTunes and QT include just as much, if not more DRM than WMP/MCE. Even MCE will let you make DVD's from your TV shows and recordings or let you copy DVD's legally-- Apple just doesn't let you do it at all.
Software supported feature. The hard drive or any particular data or programs on the drive can be configure not to run on any non-registered machine. So I can make a document that only runs on the computers I want it to and only for a certian period of time. If Apple had this then they'd probably have less leaks.
Yes, but you have to admit that Microsoft shipping a unix compatibilty layer in Windows is pretty damn huge. It would be like Apple shipping WINE or VPC with the Mac OS.
They aren't the same thing. Flip3D is Windows key+tab not Alt-tab.
I'm sure more graphic designers and content will migrate to Windows when Vista shows up. Many content creators in other fields made the move when Windows 2000 showed up (Apple was using OS 9 and OS X 10.0) and Vista is poised to do the same to several other industries where Microsoft has traditionally had little influence.
Tiger doesn't do half the search stuff that Vista does even in Beta one.
In what way were XML tiles more versitile? You do know that you can still make all the same functionality with current methods, right? In fact, there is much more functionality because you have the freedom to use Avalon/XAML and traditional Active Desktop stuff to create gadgets whereas tiles were very limited in their ability to use DX/Avalon.
Just look at the gadgets that show up in all the screenshots. They are the same ones that were represented by tiles in all the previous Longhorn screenshots. An RSS reader, a big-ass clock, an email notifier, and a slideshow thingy.
No, it isn't. Dashboard and Desktop Accesories share very little if any code and their purposes are different. Desktop accessories only existed because of the lack of multitasking on the Mac OS. Once multitasking was added desktop accesories no longer became needed and it promptly disappeared.
ryanw said:
Here's an idea: a universal installer app. that logs where all the files were placed during installation (and where they get moved to afterwards). This universal app. would have a list of everything installed using it, and so would present to you an option to uninstall it.
iphil said:I switched to the Mac 12days ago and im up to date as of Mac Updates.
I have NOT had any "buggy" issues,only some beach-balls on safari but that's expected on iMac G3 400.. X.4.2 aka tiger up to date feels "more" safe than the 'other' 95% OS aka XPee..
On the 'Finder' issue, i think its "Easier" to nav through than "Windows Explorer"..
If you dont like "Finder" pane then Use "Spotlight" to do your searching for you..
iphil
Hey, my first Mac (in 10 or 12 years) was also a G3 400MHz iMac! I bought it to to give OS X a whirl since I had bought some AAPL stock (a little over a year ago.)
I give you about another week and a half before you start plotting an upgrade to a 'real' machine (the G3 iMac actually ran pretty well but wasn't enough to completely replace my PC)...I now have an eMac and a PowerBook.
BGil said:
I know people that buy PCs that just happen to come with Windows Media Center on them. Does that statistic include PCs that are USED as Media Centers, or just number of copies shipped?
Almost like me saying that based on the number of PowerPC processors shipped in June '04 alone, Apple dominated the market. But I'm leaving out that most of the PowerPC processors weren't used for Apple or by Apple. In the Windows MCE example, this you are leaving out the computers that utilize the MCE components.
In my experience, Windows Media Center Edition is crap. No CDs to reinstall because of piracy worries, extra software that doesn't work well, and often times the person just bought whatever the computer came with. If it came with Windows 3.1, they wouldn't have known the difference. Windows 3.1 still played solitaire, eh?
BGil said:
Run your famed search program after uninstalling a program. They leave traces of themselves all over. If you can't find those pieces, look manually.
The registry, with one fell stroke, can be corrupted, causing random problems in other applications. Plus, if you are trying to run a restricted-user setup, how do you do that? The registry doesn't allow for "partial access" only all or nothing.
Yay, the marketshare statistic. Go get a real statistic... marketshare is always made up.BGil said:
OS X server allows for creation of custom OS X images. OS X is very well compartmentalized.BGil said:
MacTheRipperBGil said:As opposed to the Mac OS with no ripping tools or (HD)DVD copying software at all? Right
Works nicely. No DRM. ffmpegX turns it into a format playable on anything. I like 3rd party tools in this case-- when needed, they are available and work CORRECTLY.
And I don't want iMovie or iDVD to come with OS X. I miss them being free, I admit. But I like the fact that I can choose to have them. Most Windows users have never touched Windows Movie Maker. But it is there, consuming hard drive space as part of the operating system. Each bug in there can cause a system to fall to its knees. I have made OS X images with no web browsers at all.BGil said:
you say? So that employees don't screw around on the internet. Amazing, isn't it? They have accounts that only can run the program they need to, nothing else. In Windows this would be undoable-- they would be Administrators, and have iexplorer.exe at their service. Not good for security.I assume you mean computers that are used as TV recorders or in the living room. Media Center doesn't have a requirement for either.
In fact, most of it's features are available without the use of a TV tuner (downloadable content, 10 foot interface, streaming content to other parts of the house etc.). A Media Center PC without a TV tuner is still a Media Center PC.
That's great but I'm not talking about the server versions of Windows or OS X.
There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start. Just because something comes with the OS doesn't mean you have to have it installed. If you don't want Windows Movie Maker then simply uninstall it or make an image without it.
I'm not sure what kind of Windows admins you've been around but it's quite possible to make a Windows image without a web browser or any other program. Sysadmins do this kind of stuff all the time. Go to a major city and to a large corporate office and ask the IT staff if their users have access to any apps that the IT staff doesn't want them to... the answer will be no.
Then ask them if their users run as admin, the answer will be no. Contrary to ehatever you believe Windows NT users have never been required to run as admins and infact, any semi-competent sysadmin (on larger systems) will have all users running in limited accounts.
I currently perfer 3rd party tools as well but for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray they will jump closer to illegality. Either way, dvd ripping isn't part of the Mac OS and will be part of Vista.
BGil said:
This just isn't true! I've extensively added Spotlight comments to many different photo collections of mine, via an Automator action, and then backed them up to a DVD, and guess what? They are there, the very same comments I've added, except they're grayed out on the Get Info window (since they now reside in read-only media, duh!)... You should check the facts before posting stuff, no?