Mac OS X 10.5 Details?

[BGil]

I'm calling BS. Some apps are given default allow permission like remote desktop help among other junk. I'd guess that file and printer sharing is on by default also. So yes, ports are open by default.
No reputable admin allows WinXP, even with SP2, on the network without applying a new security template.

Allow Remote desktop is off by default and File and Printer sharing is off too (IIRC). File and printer sharing, even when it's on, is no longer visable or acessable from anything but the local subnet. The firewall also takes care of those things.

Using extended attributes or something different? And where are you finding those rumors?

Tiger did add support for arbitrarily extensible metadata streams in HFS+ so such a thing is possible. IMO most relationships only become important when data is schematized (very organized) and/or the end-user (power-user) is allowed to define custom relationships between data. I don't see Apple doing the latter because it's not simple... Apple is good at making interfaces that enable a few common senarios well as opposed to giving the user flexibilty that might lead to a more complicated interface or senario. As for the former, data on the Mac isn't really defined and schematized as it is in WinFS but Apple could, theoretically, implement more relationships and integration between the iApps (and Mail). That would give much of the end-user functionality of WinFS apps but it would probably be limited to Apple's apps. Limiting these features to Apple apps wouldn't be that much of a problem on the Mac platform (at least not as big as it would be on Windows is Microsoft limited WinFS to Microsoft apps) because most people use the iApps.

The ongoing process (both manual and automatic) of choosing where files are saved influences and restricts how they might later be related outside the boundaries of specific files/folders and hierarchies,

I think that can be solved rather easily by moving to a virtual heirarchy similar to that in Vista. Vista allows you to save files into virtual folders because location really doesn't matter. In fact, the top-level of the document explorer is simply a view of every document in every folder on any systems and drives you have access to (local, networked, or offline). Apple should do something similar.

Personally, an ever-increasing number of files with diverse, yet potentially related, data has turned it into a game of information micromanagement. Of course I continue to use hierarchies but have also exhausted their basic two-dimensional benefits. Since they're strictly enforced "below" my control (in contrast to being virtual objects/groups) the limitations have become more obvious, tedious, and frustrating.

Vista Beta 1 seems to solve this problem pretty well and WinFS (even Beta 1 on XP) is absolutely amazing in this regard. "Visuaize and Oragnize" allows you to organize data in ways that make sense to the user. I can elaborate more if you would like to discuss it.

I wouldn't be surpised if Apple implemented an iTunes-like Browse feature in the Leopard Finder. The categories of Author, Keyword, and Project (as opposed to genre, album, and artist in iTunes) would go a long way to giving people a metadata driven browsing experience while stil keeping the interface simple. It's not as powerful as the Microsoft implementation but it would be unquestionably simpler and easier to understand.

troll? Too bad they didnt have word like that in Copernicus' time. Might've saved them a lot of wood.

That's a good one. LOL

 

[cantthinkofone]

i wish they would put a command in that lets you lock down the mac if you have to walk away from it for a few min like in windows. All it shows is a little log in window, put in user name, and password and it unlocks the computer. I would also like to see the brushed metal go away....far away. Im sick of it. Also more networking control like other people have mentioned would be nice. Changing the domain, user-group in the control panel.

I really liked Panther because it was like a 180 degree turn from Jaguar in the look of the GUI. Panther looked a hell of a lot better than Jaguar. Tiger wasn't much of a change over Panther as far as the GUI and i was kinda disappointed.

Also, a few more options as far as how windows minimize. Genie is cool, but im board with it. Two or three more minimizing effects would be sweet. Maybe like a disappearing a ghost? Im not as creative as the guys and girls at apple, but you get my point right?


Oh, and QuickTime being able to play ANY type of video file. And codec updates for new versions of videos would save me a lot of sanity.

 

[paulypants]

i wish they would put a command in that lets you lock down the mac if you have to walk away from it for a few min like in windows. All it shows is a little log in window, put in user name, and password and it unlocks the computer. I would also like to see the brushed metal go away....far away. Im sick of it.


Also, a few more options as far as how windows minimize. Genie is cool, but im board with it. Two or three more minimizing effects would be sweet. .

As far as locking the computer, just turn on fast user switching and switch to the log in window, when you get back type in your name and password and pick up where you left off.

Yes, I too, am sick of brushed metal, especially since M$ is using that for the next Office. So original.

Yes more minimize options would be cool, along with some more sound effects, and a way to turn them off if need be.

 

[BGil]

Yes, I too, am sick of brushed metal, especially since M$ is using that for the next Office. So original.

1. It isn't brushed metal it's just silver.
2. It's just a place holder theme. They've said that many times. The final version will be different.
3. Office supports the theme engine on XP and Vista so it'll look similar to whatever theme you're using.

Here is Office 2003 in Silver...
http://winsupersite.com/images/reviews/office11_03.gif

 

[Mechcozmo]

Response, Part 1

Then I guess you are rather uninformed about windows. Read the thread: "What do you want to see in Leopard" and you'd be surprised how many basic functionalities are still not implemented in Mac OS X that already have been in win 95 / 98 and beyond. I have 7 in the top of my head without much advanced experience in OS X yet.

What are you thinking of? It is fairly common to believe on OS does not have features over another OS, but really they use different ideas on how to display or do things.

Since when did having features available somewhere else via third-party addon make an OS less of an update? Spotlight was available in Microsoft Desktop Search, Google Desktop Search, Lookout, Coopernic, and X1 long before Tiger came out but does that make Spotlight less useful? or Tiger less of an update to Panther? Dahsboard was available via Konfabulator, Desktop X, and numerous other services.

3rd party features require going forth and getting them, plus dealing with updating them, making sure they don't mess up your system, and other things.

Responding to the list: (Some things are BETTER than they are now, but not as good as OS X, just to clear that up. Due to the character limit, there are two posts.)

64-bit goes mainstream with Vista

Yea, er, ever heard of the G5 and how Panther started to tap the potential but then Tiger was used to rewrite the parts that would actually benefit from 64-bit? 64 bits have been supported on the Mac side with 10.2.8.

Completely new networking stack (compound TCP!!)
Completely new Audio Stack
Completely new document explorer (stacks, lots of sorting and grouping options, virtual heirarchy, metadata driven)

1. Good to see they're fixing the parts that are broken
2. But the old one is still their for compatibility, right?
3. I've seen the screenshots and they gave me a headache. Cluttered. If Microsoft goes all the way with this document metaphor, they should have consulted my desk first.

Indigo (windows communications framework)
Peer to Peer services
Meeting Spaces
Safe Docs
File versioning

1. Bonjour! Good day! Glad to see something along those lines.
2. Not sure how this will help anyone. BitTorrent works quite well, thank you very much. And it ISN'T integrated into the OS, taking up valuable hard drive space.
3. Care to explain?
4. Wow... a safe... uh... document.... You can just tell OS X to lock a document to keep it pretty safe. And they can't be executed anyway without a chmod command, which makes them not a document anywho.
5. What good does this do anyone? The application has to support it anyway. And why not just use the "Modified" date? Or use SubEthaEdit But I can see some nice uses for this, provided that it works correctly.

DirectX 10 (will not be on XP)
Media Center in every box (lots of new features)
Tablet PC and Ink support in every box (too many things to list)
Resolution Independence
Transactional NTFS

1. DirectX is inferior to OpenGL.
2. Good thing
3. Crappy support anyway, I don't think this will get better.
4. Was scheduled for 10.4 but was pushed to 10.5 because they couldn't get it to work well enough. I remember someone talking about it, but you can't enable it, just view some files related to it.
5. Yay, reformat. Or this sits inbetween the hard drive and the OS, taking longer for data to be transfered? Hazzah. Make journaling work correctly and I'll be happy.

Database-backed Explorer (and other apps like Windows Mail)
Database backed system-wide data stores for RSS, Mail, Contacts etc. (will be WinFS backed later)
Hot Add, Hot Remove, and Hot Replace for processors, ram, hard drives etc.
IIS7

1. Instead of each app holding its own database, why aren't they collectively pooled into one big database that can be searched quickly? Isn't that the better approach than to need to update dozens of databases and keep them in line? I guess that Document Version will come in handy, eh?
2. Inserting and ejecting a USB device lags the system. I'm sure that doing the same with a processor will lag the system more. Kudos if the HAL works, but that is hard to do. And just where do you get a hot-swappable processor?
3. I like Apache better, but good to see ISS get better and more secure.

Preview pane and Reading pane in Explorer
Automatic game/system benchmarking and optimization
Natural Language interface (speech, ink, search)
Hardware accelerated H.264, WMVHD, and MPEG-2 HD

1. And let me guess, this reading pane won't preview OpenDocument files, only Windows-certified ones, ya?
2. With Vista Gaming Edition. And why should the OS be optimizing the code? That just encourages sloppy coding on behalf of the game designers, which then requires better hardware to optimize real time, which makes hotter and more inefficient hardware.
3. You can speak and write to OS X. Big whoop.
4. Not H.264. Since Microsoft is supporting WMVHD, there will not be Blu-Ray support nor H.264 support built into Vista. Quicktime, thankfully, will handle the H.264 part. But why again do you rely on something BUILT INTO the OS to do things for you? Just asking for trouble. I can always get rid of any Apple app that I need to. But I can't get rid of MSN Messenger, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Windows Movie Maker, etc.

Componetized structure
new codebase (windows server 2003 SP1)
Managed copy and DVD ripping built-in
Windows Movie Maker HD and HD-DVD authoring
Virtual PC in the box

1. OS X was built this way, circa NeXT in 1994.
2. XP was the merger of the 'pro' NT line and the 'home' DOS line. Windows Server 2003 SP1 is still the same codebase, just a different genetic mix. However, it and XP share the same heritage.
3. Yes, but the DRM that is placed on that is amazing. You're gonna need a new monitor to watch it so that it can confirm you are going to a 'certified' monitor and not something that is capturing the video stream.
4. iMovie already does HD, iDVD will do DL soon I'm betting, and Blu-Ray after that. And I can always ditch iDVD and iMovie... but Microsoft forces me to use their software. I don't like that.
5. Yeah, Ultimate Edition only. Forgot to mention that, eh?

 

[Mechcozmo]

Response, Part 2

WPF/Xaml/Baml
Superfetch
fully automatic defragging (no, OSX does not have this)
Power-aware states
Better memory management

1. XML is better since anyone can use it. Microsoft is making a proprietary standard that they hope to control.
2. WTF?
3. Yes, OS X does. If a file is fragmented in 8 pieces the entire file is copied to another place on the hard drive, essentially defragging it. Plus the outside edge of the hard drive, where the platters spin the fastest, are where your most used files are placed. OS X handles fragmentation well.
4. Yeah... like when I disconnect my PowerBook from the wall it changes the screen brightness, CPU setting, etc. right?
5. Already been done. Guess where? OS X. (To be fair, UNIX in general with the offshoot of Linux)

Sidebar+ Gadgets
MSH
New search features
new open/save dialogs (preview panes, reading panes, search, file versions)
Flip3D
new Alt-Tab
IE7 (different than the XP version)

1. Dashboard and Desk Accessories before that. Konfabulator used more proprietary methods vs. Dashboard-- they are alike but very different in implementation... aside from RAM. They both suck down RAM. But will Vista's new RAM manager be good enough for this kind of RAM usage?
2. MSH.... Isn't that the Monad shell that you said wouldn't be in Vista? Anyway, neat that it is object-oriented but otherwise the Terminal works beautifully.
3. Damn, that's vague.
4. Open and Save dialogs are for OPENING AND SAVING. Not for reading. Preview is good for photos, true, but OS X does that. Search is there too. And file versions remain to see good usage of.
5. Eh?
6. Exposé works fine, thankyouverymuch. So does Command+Tab, because you can quit, hide, minimize, and do other standard UI actions with the Command+Tab thingy up. Neat.
7. IE7 still has issues with the interface and the rendering engine. No thanks.

built-in antispyware

Shouldn't be getting this in the first place.

new firewall
new network center and features (castles, dual internet, etc)
updated start menu
new WMP
new Photo managing app
new calendar app
new file system metaphors
New mail app
hardware encrpyted file system
lots of new UI stuff

1. OS X has had the same firewall since the PUBLIC BETA. At least they are fixing XP's firewall-- it was horrible.
2. OS X supports this.
3. Again? Damn thing keeps changing...
4. WMP-- see above rants on OS integration with software that should be included, but separate from the OS. (Don't get me started on WMP's blatant disregard for HIG)
5. Wow, more integration. I wonder if Picasa 2 will still run.
6. Yay. Not.
7. Going to confuse most everyone...
8. Good, Outlook Express is horrible.
9. FileVault. Protects the important stuff and doesn't slow the computer down by encrypting cookie recipes. Actually, those recipes are in your Mail app so I guess they are... oops. You get the idea though.
10. Another wonderful statement.

An RSS reader (part of Windows Mail)
External display gadgets
parental controls
tons of new security stuff

1. I read RSS via my web browser... never seen the use, but at least it is there.
2. eh?
3. Tea-Eye-single-guh-ER. Tiger. Already there and very nice, although I hope to see them expand a bit in power and ease of use in 10.5.
4. Yeah, that's always nice.

Subsystem for Unix apps
new sync engine
new mobile device engine
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray support (HDCP, AACS)
new Microsoft update system
Game Explorer

1. RRRRIIIIIGGGHHHTTT.
2. iSync.
3. iSync.
4. No Blu-Ray. Microsoft is behind HD-DVD all the way.
5. Software update. Very nice app, although I wish there was another one for 3rd party apps... no big deal though. Plus, the whole 'you must download AND install this separately' makes no sense. Why can't I download now and install separately? Why do they even need to be installed separately? And why don't computers have the .NET Framework 1.1 still? That's been around for years and still computers don't have it.
6. Most useless idea ever... but only in Gaming Edition, right?

BTW, There aren't any ports open on an SP2 install either.

I call crap. Technically, there aren't any open ports when the port is not in use. But that's what a firewall does-- even the crappy SP2 one. Otherwise you have stuff like HTTP, FTP, MSN Messenger, etc. (80, 21, and I dunno)

Guess which implementation can read from a custom datastore? Not Spotlight.
Guess which implementation actually uses real keywords? Not Spotlight.
Guess which implementation actually writes metadata to the files? Not Spotlight.

Get your Spotlight plugins from apple.com/macosx
You type real words in, real data comes out. The user doesn't need to know the behind the scenes part.
And good that it doesn't write metadata! I don't want any accidents with my pictures! If Vista wants to 'add' metadata to my pictures, it can go eff itself. My pictures are very important to me-- they don't get tampered with. Except by ME.

OS X still can't fully hardware accelerate HD content, do document sharing, edit ID3 tags, use ID3 tags or other metadata in the file browser, do granular file encryption, sort files in every view, group files in every view, do system restore, go fully 64-bit, manual processor scheduling, cut in the file system, write to FTP's, hibernate, or numerous other things that even though XP can do so why would Tiger be able to do everything Vista can do?

1. SubEthaEdit for document sharing
2. iTunes can edit ID3 tags
3. Make an encrypted disk image with AES-128 encryption.
4. System Restore = Archive and Install
5. Apple's sleep is better than Hibernate. Instant on (I need this) and instant off with minimal battery drain. Hibernation uses the battery when spinning the HD, etc. Sleep is better for anything less than 2 days, then shut it off if it will be out of use and away from A/C power for that long.
6. "Cut in the file system" and "Manual processor scheduling" I'm not familiar with.

I mean damn, OS X doesn't even include video editing or photo management software anymore and Tiger damn sure doesn't have Media Center or Tablet PC built-in (don't bring up Inkwell because it's not eh same). That right there are four huge sets of functionailty that Vista will have over Tiger and probably Leopard as well (I don't see Apple giving us iLife back).

Yes, but on some OS X installs I don't want video editing or photo management software. While I wish iLife was still free, the ability of OS X to function without the iApps is astounding. (I run a server and don't want the iApps on there) Windows does not give me this option. This opens up the range of security vulnerabilities that come with software. (Buffer overflows, etc.) Therefore, by allowing me to choose to include the various applications, I save on HD space and on security.
Inkwell is damn good. Tablet PC isn't that good at handwriting recognition, but Inkwell does needs some more work to be more useful. That said, I prefer Inkwell over Tablet PC (Yes, I have used both).

 

[Mechcozmo]

i wish they would put a command in that lets you lock down the mac if you have to walk away from it for a few min like in windows. All it shows is a little log in window, put in user name, and password and it unlocks the computer. I would also like to see the brushed metal go away....far away. Im sick of it. Also more networking control like other people have mentioned would be nice. Changing the domain, user-group in the control panel.

Open up Keychain Access. (/Applications/Utilities)
Go to Keychain->Preferences
Choose "Show Status in Menu Bar"

You can lock the screen there. Nifty, eh?

 

[sjk]

Thanks for the detailed reply, BGil. I wouldn't mind continuing the discussion later (if there's interest) but this might not be the ideal place for it since it's gotten pretty noisy with other subtopics... and I'm too tired right now to think clearly anyway.

i wish they would put a command in that lets you lock down the mac if you have to walk away from it for a few min like in windows. All it shows is a little log in window, put in user name, and password and it unlocks the computer.

They is you. Try exploring System Preferences more deeply (hint: look under Security). Or you can do a manual Lock Screen like Mechcozmo described.

 

[northernleitz]

troll? Too bad they didnt have word like that in Copernicus' time. Might've saved them a lot of wood.

But yeah, litter doesnt bother you apparently when it's out of sight. Only when it starts to stink...
It doesnt solve the issue of update packages either.

Uh, I'm pretty sure they DID have that word in Copernicus' time. I could look it up in my dictionary widget for you....

And it is too bad certain programs are hard to remove in OS X... but at least you can, unlike IE and WMP in your Windows. And at least Apple doesn't try to force its products down your throat. Goodbye.

 

[BGil]

3rd party features require going forth and getting them, plus dealing with updating them, making sure they don't mess up your system, and other things.

Read the question again.
Since when did having features available somewhere else via third-party addon make an OS less of an update?

Responding to the list

First of all this list is a list of things that are new features in Vista compared to XP. In other words, things that make the Vista upgrade big and significant because that was the topic. This is not a list for comparing to OS X but since you replied anyway...
Much of the stuff you posted is simply incorrect.

Yea, er, ever heard of the G5 and how Panther started to tap the potential but then Tiger was used to rewrite the parts that would actually benefit from 64-bit? 64 bits have been supported on the Mac side with 10.2.8.

Windows has been 64-bit since 2001. Windows XP Pro 64-bit is FULLY 64-bit, Tiger is not. Vista will move a large portion of the computing world to 64-bit computing. There are very few apps or parts of Tiger that operate in 64-bit.

1. Good to see they're fixing the parts that are broken (networking)
2. But the old one is still their for compatibility, right? (audio)
3. I've seen the screenshots and they gave me a headache. Cluttered. If Microsoft goes all the way with this document metaphor, they should have consulted my desk first. (new explorer)

1. The networking goes far beyond that. Compound TCP is worth the price of the upgrade alone IMO. And no OS X doesn't have that.
http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=116349
2. No, it's not there but the new one is compatible with much of the old stuff.
3. I thought so at first but once you use it the glass actually doesn't look so bad. But the look of Beta 1 is generally not final as history would suggest.

1. Bonjour! Good day! Glad to see something along those lines. (Indigo)
2. Not sure how this will help anyone. BitTorrent works quite well, thank you very much. And it ISN'T integrated into the OS, taking up valuable hard drive space. (Peer to Peer)
3. Care to explain? (meeting spaces)
4. Wow... a safe... uh... document.... You can just tell OS X to lock a document to keep it pretty safe. And they can't be executed anyway without a chmod command, which makes them not a document anywho. (SafeDocs)
5. What good does this do anyone? The application has to support it anyway. And why not just use the "Modified" date? Or use SubEthaEdit But I can see some nice uses for this, provided that it works correctly. (file versioning)

1. No. ZeroConfig (Bonjour) is great but not comparable to Indigo. it's like comparing a great set of tires to a car. Indigo is a framework (API) of many different technologes.
2. This is more like Bonjour. It has nothing to do with Bittorent or Kazaa or similar services.
3. http://www.microsoft.com/winme/0509/25074/PDC_Webcast_MBR.asx
2 hours in. Allows for sharing of documents, screen projection to network projectors or other people's machines, group presentations etc.
4. SafeDocs-- google for it or look at this very simply explanation. It's not similar to anything in OS X.
5. It's built into NTFS so you can invoke it on any file or folder. You can go look at what a particular jpeg file or photoshop file looked like last week or what a particular word document (on a server) looked like before your coworker modified it.

1. DirectX is inferior to OpenGL.
2. Good thing (MCE)
3. Crappy support anyway, I don't think this will get better. (Tablet)
4. Was scheduled for 10.4 but was pushed to 10.5 because they couldn't get it to work well enough. I remember someone talking about it, but you can't enable it, just view some files related to it. (resolution independence)
5. Yay, reformat. Or this sits inbetween the hard drive and the OS, taking longer for data to be transfered? Hazzah. Make journaling work correctly and I'll be happy. (transactional NTFS)

1. Sure
3. Crappy? Compared to what? You do know that Tablet PC is the best Tablet OS on the market right? You do know that Tablet PC's hardwriting recognition is miles ahead of Inkwell right? It does print, cursive, any combination of both, mathmatical forumlas and symbols, and numerous languages (more than Inkwell).
4. Yep. I know. You can turn in on in Tiger it just doesn't work well. But it's not truely resolution independent anyway.
5. Built-in NTFS. Don't even need to reformat IIRC. More here. Oh yeah, and journaling on NTFS has always worked fine. OS X is the one that has problems with it. Try defragging your box with Norton and you'll see what I mean.

1. Instead of each app holding its own database, why aren't they collectively pooled into one big database that can be searched quickly? Isn't that the better approach than to need to update dozens of databases and keep them in line? I guess that Document Version will come in handy, eh?
2. Inserting and ejecting a USB device lags the system. I'm sure that doing the same with a processor will lag the system more. Kudos if the HAL works, but that is hard to do. And just where do you get a hot-swappable processor?
3. I like Apache better, but good to see ISS get better and more secure.

1. Who said they can't be searched quickly? You might want to use Vista (even beta 1) before you make comments like that.
2. I've never had that problem on Windows XP. You don't even need to "eject" the drive like you do with OS X. I have tons of problems with mounted drives on OS X causing beachballs but never on Windows XP.
3. IIS6 is a lot more secure than Apache 2. From what I hear, IIS is much more full featured as well.

1. And let me guess, this reading pane won't preview OpenDocument files, only Windows-certified ones, ya?
2. With Vista Gaming Edition. And why should the OS be optimizing the code? That just encourages sloppy coding on behalf of the game designers, which then requires better hardware to optimize real time, which makes hotter and more inefficient hardware.
3. You can speak and write to OS X. Big whoop.
4. Not H.264. Since Microsoft is supporting WMVHD, there will not be Blu-Ray support nor H.264 support built into Vista. Quicktime, thankfully, will handle the H.264 part. But why again do you rely on something BUILT INTO the OS to do things for you? Just asking for trouble. I can always get rid of any Apple app that I need to. But I can't get rid of MSN Messenger, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Windows Movie Maker, etc.

Anything with a preview handler or written in plain-text can be previewed so if someone writes a preview handler then it's all good. Please stop with the FUD though. And it's called "Ultimate edition".
2. The OS isn't optimizing game code at all. Please read up on the feature before you comment on it. Nothing you said applies to this feature.
3. The handwriting recogition in OS X barely works and only in a couple langauges. Vista supports far more languages and far more functionality here. Haven't used OS X's speech recogition so I won't comment.
4. Wrong. Microsoft supports all next-gen high-def DVD formats and codecs-- that includes H.264.
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...4e74-92a3-088782200fe7/TWEN05003_WinHEC05.ppt
Go to slide 18.
Microsoft publically said Vista will support Blu-Ray as well, which make sense seeing VC-1 is manadatory on Blu-ray. Microsoft just perfers HD-DVD and wants them to win.
You can uninstall all those apps from Windows. The new deployment system allows you to just install the kernel if you really want to. Vista is built fully componentized, everything can be removed.

1. OS X was built this way, circa NeXT in 1994. (componentized)
2. XP was the merger of the 'pro' NT line and the 'home' DOS line. Windows Server 2003 SP1 is still the same codebase, just a different genetic mix. However, it and XP share the same heritage. (new codebase)
3. Yes, but the DRM that is placed on that is amazing. You're gonna need a new monitor to watch it so that it can confirm you are going to a 'certified' monitor and not something that is capturing the video stream (managed copy and DVD ripping).
4. iMovie already does HD, iDVD will do DL soon I'm betting, and Blu-Ray after that. And I can always ditch iDVD and iMovie... but Microsoft forces me to use their software. I don't like that. (Windows Movie Maker HD and DVD authoring).
5. Yeah, Ultimate Edition only. Forgot to mention that, eh? (Virtual PC)

1. Not like this. This is far more extensive than what OS X can do.
2. True but my point was it's not built on XP's codebase. The Windows Server 2003 codebase is much faster, better, and more secure in addition to be available in 64-bit as well.
3. No, that's the (other part of ) AACS on next-gen DVD formats. Managed copy is the abilty to copy a DVD and stream it to other PC's media center extenders (Xbox 360), and copy it to portable devices. It has very little to do with HDCP that next-gen HD-DVD's require. Managed copy works just fine on regular DVD's and recorded TV's shows as well. You can even burn them to DVD.

 

[shidoshi]

Just for fun, I made an Apple-cloned web page detailing all of the new features of an imaginary new version of the Finder under 10.5. Here's the link, and a sneak peak of what you'll see over there. I edited all of the content on the page, so be sure to also read the sidebars on the right.

http://storage.gomorning.com/finder/

 

[BGil]

1. XML is better since anyone can use it. Microsoft is making a proprietary standard that they hope to control. (WPF/XAML)
2. WTF? (Superfetch)
3. Yes, OS X does. If a file is fragmented in 8 pieces the entire file is copied to another place on the hard drive, essentially defragging it. Plus the outside edge of the hard drive, where the platters spin the fastest, are where your most used files are placed. OS X handles fragmentation well. (full defragging)
4. Yeah... like when I disconnect my PowerBook from the wall it changes the screen brightness, CPU setting, etc. right? (Power States)
5. Already been done. Guess where? OS X. (To be fair, UNIX in general with the offshoot of Linux) (better memory management)

Anyone can use XAML. Yes, it is created by Microsoft so they can control it but Flash and PDF is the same for MacroMedia/Adobe, QT and CoreImage is the same for Apple etc.
WPF/XAML has tons of advantages over the Quartz/PDF and Flash products. Espcailly since Flash isn't even hardware acclerated and niether Quartz/PDF or Flash can be done in markup. XAMl integrates with XML very well, they aren't competing technologies.
2. Google it!
3. No, OS X doesn't have complete defragging. It's defragging is limited to file of certian sizes (among other things).
4. Yes, but far more involved. Vista changes the way memory management is handled when the power state changes. Applications can have hook into the system and be modified automatically to deal with certian power states. The GUI in Vista changes depending on your power state so the battery draining eye-candy can be set to turn off automatically. IIRC whole processors and banks of ram can be turned off automatically in certian power states.
5. See Superfetch. Vista is also optimized for solid state drives and flash chips, which OS X is not.

1. Dashboard and Desk Accessories before that. Konfabulator used more proprietary methods vs. Dashboard-- they are alike but very different in implementation... aside from RAM. They both suck down RAM. But will Vista's new RAM manager be good enough for this kind of RAM usage?
2. MSH.... Isn't that the Monad shell that you said wouldn't be in Vista? Anyway, neat that it is object-oriented but otherwise the Terminal works beautifully.
3. Damn, that's vague. (search features)
4. Open and Save dialogs are for OPENING AND SAVING. Not for reading. Preview is good for photos, true, but OS X does that. Search is there too. And file versions remain to see good usage of.
5. Eh?
6. Exposé works fine, thankyouverymuch. So does Command+Tab, because you can quit, hide, minimize, and do other standard UI actions with the Command+Tab thingy up. Neat.
7. IE7 still has issues with the interface and the rendering engine. No thanks.

1. You do know that Desktop accessories is really not related to widgets, gadgets, or objects at all, right? It was just some b.s. excuse Apple apologists (Daring fireball) used when faced with the "Apple copied Kobfabulator issue". As Wincustomize (StarDock) put it, "desktop accessories are so divorced from the modern widget/gadget concept as to be nonsensical.". I have the sidebar for Vista but haven't looked at it's ram usage. Vista caches EVERYTHING in ram. If you have a gig then it will use like 900+ MB's even when no programs are open. As you open programs it intelligently kicks certian things out of ram while still caching stuff as much as possible. No matter how lax or intense my work is it always seems like Vista is using every last bit of ram I have.
2. There's a lot of cool stuff about it but AFAIK it won't ship with mainstream copies of Vista. Vista B1 (ultimate edition) is the only build to includes it so far so that leads me to believe that MSH will ship with Ultimate Edition.
3. There are so many that I didn't feel like listing them all out.

1. OS X has had the same firewall since the PUBLIC BETA. At least they are fixing XP's firewall-- it was horrible.
2. OS X supports this. (castles, new networking stuff)
3. Again? Damn thing keeps changing... (start menu)
4. WMP-- see above rants on OS integration with software that should be included, but separate from the OS. (Don't get me started on WMP's blatant disregard for HIG)
5. Wow, more integration. I wonder if Picasa 2 will still run. (Photo manager)
6. Yay. Not.
7. Going to confuse most everyone...
8. Good, Outlook Express is horrible.
9. FileVault. Protects the important stuff and doesn't slow the computer down by encrypting cookie recipes. Actually, those recipes are in your Mail app so I guess they are... oops. You get the idea though.
10. Another wonderful statement.

1. Who cares? The OS X firewall isn't even on by default and doesn't even work well bi-directionally.
2. No it doesn't.
3. Yeah, program launching is super fast now.
4. Who said it was integrated? You're the only one that keeps saying this stuff is integrated.
5. Again with the integration thing. Why wouldn't Picasa 2 run? Did Pinnacle software cease to run when MS introduced Movie Maker? Did Quicktime cease to run? OpenGL? iTunes? What's with all the FUD?
9. Filevault sucks for so many reasons. This is not filevault and it's hardware driven so it can tie a particular disk (even a CD/DVD) to a particular machine and do lots of other stuff. It's all optional of course but it doesn't suffer from any of the shortcomings that Filevault does (my Mac takes about 3 times longer to boot when I use file vault )

1. I read RSS via my web browser... never seen the use, but at least it is there.
2. eh?
3. Tea-Eye-single-guh-ER. Tiger. Already there and very nice, although I hope to see them expand a bit in power and ease of use in 10.5.
4. Yeah, that's always nice.

1. I perfer something else to handle my RSS feeds but I haven't tried the RSS readerin Vista yet so I'm not sure how good it is.
2. Windows Slideshow. Video. Awesome new feature.
3. Haven't used them in Tiger, won't use them in Vista but I know Vista uses them for TV content, games, and more.

1. RRRRIIIIIGGGHHHTTT. (Unix Subsystem)
2. iSync. (sync engine)
3. iSync. (mobile device engine)
4. No Blu-Ray. Microsoft is behind HD-DVD all the way.
5. Software update. Very nice app, although I wish there was another one for 3rd party apps... no big deal though. Plus, the whole 'you must download AND install this separately' makes no sense. Why can't I download now and install separately? Why do they even need to be installed separately? And why don't computers have the .NET Framework 1.1 still? That's been around for years and still computers don't have it.
6. Most useless idea ever... but only in Gaming Edition, right?

1. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/sfu/default.mspx
IIRC this version will ship with Windows Server 2003 R2 and the next version will ship with Vista. I know, scary thought... a Windows release with built-in Unix-compatibilty. This was covered on Winsupersite as well.
2. I'd liek to think so but iSync sucks IMO. I'm currently using Microsoft's Sync Toy for XP and it's far superior in many ways.. particuarly in it's abilty to handle conflicts and it's granularity. The Sync toy isn't "great" but it's okay. IIRC the Vista version is quite a bit more extensive because it includes Offlince files and folders, and a bunch of other stuff.
3. iSync doesn't do this. The XP version does quite a few nice things like automatic notification if certain files work on certian devices and more. I heard that the Vista version will include all of the ActiveSync functionality which would be cool but I'm not sure about that.
4. Covered this before
5. They finally made Windows/Microsoft update into a separate app (like Software Update) instead of a webpage. Microsoft update will actually let you download and install separately. It will even download and install without user intervention (scheduled weekly by default).
6. AFAIK it's in every edition. It keeps track of all kinds of game stats and there's an integrated peer feature that gives you a buddy list like Xbox Live. That is, a buddy/friends list that persists across all games and allows easy one-on-one play without needing to find a server and do all the customary stuff. This is very cool stuff for gamers.

Get your Spotlight plugins from apple.com/macosx
You type real words in, real data comes out. The user doesn't need to know the behind the scenes part.
And good that it doesn't write metadata! I don't want any accidents with my pictures! If Vista wants to 'add' metadata to my pictures, it can go eff itself. My pictures are very important to me-- they don't get tampered with. Except by ME.

Those Spotlight plugins don't give you the abilty to read from a custom datastore.
This is a Keywords vs Spotlight comments issue.
And yes, you do want it to write metadata to your files otherwise all the metadata (spotlight comments) and such that you add to your files will disappear when you move them (to CD or DVD, flash drive etc).

 

[BGil]

1. SubEthaEdit for document sharing
2. iTunes can edit ID3 tags
3. Make an encrypted disk image with AES-128 encryption.
4. System Restore = Archive and Install
5. Apple's sleep is better than Hibernate. Instant on (I need this) and instant off with minimal battery drain. Hibernation uses the battery when spinning the HD, etc. Sleep is better for anything less than 2 days, then shut it off if it will be out of use and away from A/C power for that long.
6. "Cut in the file system" and "Manual processor scheduling" I'm not familiar with.

1. Not part of the Mac OS and not free. And it only does document sharing of Subethaedit documents. Messenger/Vista/XP can share anything.
2. That's assuming you've imported it into iTunes. There's no reason why I should have to rely on an application to change some simple metadata like an ID3 tag. Imagine if you needed another app to add Spotlight comments to a file. That would be stupid. And this situation extends to much more than just ID# tags but any metadata that resides on a file.
3. Which is far more difficult and clumsy than just encrypting a single file. Have you ever seen what happens to an encrpted disk image when the file(s) inside start to grow rapidly? Not pretty.
4. Archive and Install is a joke compared to System Restore. It takes far longer, you have to go to the Apple site and track down the updater you want to reapply, it rolls everything back to the last CD/DVD image you have and it doesn't allow you to roll things back incrementally to see what actually caused the problem. And forget about rolling things forward (back to the point you were at before you started doing an archive and install). Plus it takes forever by comparison.
System Restore lets me roll back or forward any particular individual install or driver. You can roll things back to how things were on a particular day and lots more.
5. Sleep and Hibernate are completely different functions. Vista has both (as does XP). Hibernate allows you to store the exact state of your machine for an indefinite amount of time. You can even hibernate, boot to another OS, then reboot back into the hibernated state in Windows. You can hibernate then remove the hard drive, ram, battery, power supply or any other part then reinstall that stuff and go right back to the last state you were in.
6. Select a file in the Finder, right-click it, choose copy. Notice there is not "cut" option?
Windows NT allows you to take any process or program and choose it's priority and thread. So lets say you have a big video rendering to H.264 in QT Pro or After Effects, with another project rendering in FCP, but you want to watch a movie on your computer while all this is happening. On a Mac, even a dual processor one, the movie would get very choppy if it even ran at all. On XP, you could set the two rendering videos to "low priority" and the movie you want to watch to "high priority" then your video would play smoothly NO MATTER WHAT. The two rendering apps would only have the processing power that is not being used by the movie playing app (say DVD player). If you have a dual processor machine then you could isolate DVD player to one CPU while making sure niether of the other apps used any CPU cycles from that CPU. This kind of stuff is done all the time on Windows to allow for things that simply aren't possible on similar Macs. For instance, I've successfully captured two DV movies at the same time (without dropping a single frame) while rendering a third. Or rendered two videos in the background with editing another video at full speed on a single processor machine.

Yes, but on some OS X installs I don't want video editing or photo management software. While I wish iLife was still free, the ability of OS X to function without the iApps is astounding. (I run a server and don't want the iApps on there) Windows does not give me this option. This opens up the range of security vulnerabilities that come with software. (Buffer overflows, etc.) Therefore, by allowing me to choose to include the various applications, I save on HD space and on security.

Are you really trying to justify Apple not including iLife with Tiger? Besides you can uninstall all that stuff from Windows. None of it is integrated into the system. Vista even lets you customize the install image so you don't even need to instal those programs in the first place.

Inkwell is damn good. Tablet PC isn't that good at handwriting recognition, but Inkwell does needs some more work to be more useful. That said, I prefer Inkwell over Tablet PC (Yes, I have used both).

You're joking, right? Are we talking about Tablet PC 2005 or the Vista version? Even Tablet PC 2005 is far superior to Inkwell in recognition, this is fact. Tablet PC 2005's recognition software was originally licensed from the same company (and code) that did Inkwell (Newton) and then massively improved in the years following. Inkwell doesn't even support cursive for god sakes. And you have to print extremely well for it to recognize anything. Disambiguation in Inkwell sucks donkey balls. In Vista the tablet stuff has taken another step forward... mathmatical formulas, more languages, better learning, better disambiguation, better training, and more.

Just for fun, I made an Apple-cloned web page detailing all of the new features of an imaginary new version of the Finder under 10.5. Here's the link, and a sneak peak of what you'll see over there. I edited all of the content on the page, so be sure to also read the sidebars on the right.

http://storage.gomorning.com/finder/

I fear you. Those containers are an amazing idea.

 

[mugwump]

yeah

I like that "Task Master" idea, where there is one location to show the finder's activities.

How often have I lost that little floating finder window showing a file copy, or whatever. Well, expose does find it, but still. You have a good solution there.

 

[Truffy]

Sure, evolution. But still a very slick evolution. How about a more 3D-ish Genie effect: windows that blur, give off light, and turn into multicololored rotating tubes as they minimzie.

Imagine that new windows fade in/expand for .25 seconds when you open them.

This is just eye candy, and some of us have the genie effect turned off anyway because it's pointless. I agree with nanogramme - consistency is what's needed. Toy effects are not important in improving the usability, and therefore acceptability, of OSX.

 

[Truffy]

It is bothering to me that Safari doesn't display the page until every single image has been loaded. Internet Explorer and Firefox and all the others attempt to render the page as the main INDEX has been loaded.

Hmm, is this a Tiger/Safari2 thing? Because I don't see it under Panther.

The only thing I miss about windows is the ability to tab through all open windows and not just open apps.

When I have to use Windows, I miss being able to close apps from the ALT-TAB selector!

I guess neither's perfect.

 

[mad jew]

Hmm, is this a Tiger/Safari2 thing? Because I don't see it under Panther.

It was the same in Panther but there's a script/hack that can turn it off. I think it's called SafariSpeed or something. To be honest, if someone's complaining about this then they need a faster connection.

 

[DeSnousa]

When I have to use Windows, I miss being able to close apps from the ALT-TAB selector!

I guess neither's perfect.

Ahh, but we do. Try pressing the apple and tab buttons to close the apps press 'Q' while over an app.

 

[rolandf]

Keep the Power Architecture!!

As a side remark to the ongoing discussion, I think, Apple should extend the OS in a direction, that it could run on a cluster
of Cell processors. Although the Cell has just been introduced, there are already some powerful tools written for Cell based
blades.

The x86 architecture is the past and certainly not the future for multimedia applications as well as handling large data sets;
e.g. needed for digital film production.

x86 might serve for notebooks but not for the high-end stuff! The second version of the Cell might be really great!

 

[SiliconAddict]

I have never had any problems with mice under XP. Further, in XP my mouse responds smooth, constant and with precision.

Ditto. Sounds like the guy's neighbor has some hardware problems. Mice "just work" in Windows unless there is a core hardware issue.

I fear you. Those containers are an amazing idea.

Yah and has been done in Windows XP.... Zip files are opened directly in the OS as folders. Personally I find it annoying so I turned it off and use WinZIP.

 

[minimax]

As a side remark to the ongoing discussion, I think, Apple should extend the OS in a direction, that it could run on a cluster
of Cell processors. Although the Cell has just been introduced, there are already some powerful tools written for Cell based
blades.

The x86 architecture is the past and certainly not the future for multimedia applications as well as handling large data sets;
e.g. needed for digital film production.

x86 might serve for notebooks but not for the high-end stuff! The second version of the Cell might be really great!

I think you're not alone in that wish, but Apple is not a technology oriented corporation (although it may look like that) but a marketing driven one. If the consumer prefers Intel, they get Intel.

And it is too bad certain programs are hard to remove in OS X... but at least you can, unlike IE and WMP in your Windows. And at least Apple doesn't try to force its products down your throat. Goodbye.

Hellooo it looks like someone has some long frozen toes.
We all know Windows has enough issues and Microsoft uses gorilla tactics. What else is new? But the world isnt black and white you know. And OSX isnt perfect.
If that's too hard a reality for you to cope with I feel for you.

 

[TBi]

Yah and has been done in Windows XP.... Zip files are opened directly in the OS as folders. Personally I find it annoying so I turned it off and use WinZIP.

I like the fact that you can open zip's as folders, i wish you could do it with more compressed files. The only problem is that it searches these zip files during a standard search which makes the search take ages...

 

[50548]

Gosh, BGil's prolix posts and wannabe daydreaming features (most of them already existing in Mac OS, of course, no matter how many convoluted words you use for the Winblows wishlist) almost convinced me to buy and use Bill Gates's stillborn product...errr...no, not really, thanks...

But I hope he enjoys Vista/Shortsight/Longhorn better than us privileged Mac OS X users...he will see when he gets the real thing...what a bunch of crap.

 

[wdlove]

Hellooo it looks like someone has some long frozen toes.
We all know Windows has enough issues and Microsoft uses gorilla tactics. What else is new? But the world isnt black and white you know. And OSX isnt perfect.
If that's too hard a reality for you to cope with I feel for you.

Microsoft "Gorilla Marketing" 101.


http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2005/10/24/building_a_buzz_on_campus/

 

[nagromme]

You can install Vista Beta 1 and see that it's far ahead of Tiger in nearly everyway.

Only if you very willfully choose which elements to call important, and which to ignore

Much like when people say what a great deal some Dell machine is instead of an iMac. They just say the Dell's features are the important ones, and the Mac's features are not. Bingo

(But in this case, it's like comparing NEXT year's Dell to last year's iMac.)