Mac OS X 10.6.8 to Remove MacDefender, Get Mac App Store Ready for Lion

[Bear]

You restore using the restore disk that came with the computer and then you add the upgrades.

It would be nice if they sold a disk but there is no MUST in this game.

So you use your restore disk to:

• install 10.6.something
• Then you run through the updates to 10.6.latest (so the OS knows about the App Store stuff - because the person needs it for the next step)
• Then you get the Lion installer back on your computer (most users will wind up downloading it again because they never made a DVD backup)
• Then you upgrade to Lion

This sounds painfully long and not a clean user experience. Right now if the person has a time machine backup, they could just install Lion and then have Time Machine get everything else back in place.

And if you use other methods to back up your computer, you're probably the type that would want to do a clean Lion install and then do clean installations of all the applications you use.

 

[NedBookPro]

I run a Hackintosh PC...

Running a hackintosh or not, are you a total loser to make a statement like this??

Any fool can build a hackintosh. Keep it to yourself.

If you love MacOs so much you should support them by buying the hardware as well.

 

[Bear]

It's a pity the first people who will get the MacDefender patch, are the last ones to need it!

But many of the others wont be far behind - they'll just click yes when Software Update comes along and announces it wants to do an update.

 

[Cougarcat]

I hope one of the enhancements of the MAS is academic discounts. Otherwise I'll be forced to get a DVD.

Of course, if Lion is sufficiently cheap, then I expect there won't be an edu discount, just like with SL.

 

[roadbloc]

You can do a clean install if you buy it through App Store.

How do you know this?

 

[Cougarcat]

How do you know this?

The DP installs just fine on blank partitions.

 

[iBug2]

So you use your restore disk to:

• install 10.6.something
• Then you run through the updates to 10.6.latest (so the OS knows about the App Store stuff - because the person needs it for the next step)
• Then you get the Lion installer back on your computer (most users will wind up downloading it again because they never made a DVD backup)
• Then you upgrade to Lion

This sounds painfully long and not a clean user experience. Right now if the person has a time machine backup, they could just install Lion and then have Time Machine get everything else back in place.

And if you use other methods to back up your computer, you're probably the type that would want to do a clean Lion install and then do clean installations of all the applications you use.

Install SL onto a USB stick and then copy the Lion install app you got from App store. Now that's a bootable SL disk which has the ability to install Lion. You can create a DVD-R or USB like that, and keep it safe somewhere.

 

[iBug2]

How do you know this?

Because I have installed the DP's like that and the actual thing should work exactly the same way.

 

[Bear]

Install SL onto a USB stick and then copy the Lion install app you got from App store. Now that's a bootable SL disk which has the ability to install Lion. You can create a DVD-R or USB like that, and keep it safe somewhere.

You missed the point of my comment. What I said was in reply to what charlituna said:

You restore using the restore disk that came with the computer and then you add the upgrades.

It would be nice if they sold a disk but there is no MUST in this game.

Also, your scenario with the USB stick is not a clean user experience.

I was pointing out why Apple needed to make Lion as something that installs clean. Yes, I know the DP currently available does.

 

[iBug2]

You missed the point of my comment. What I said was in reply to what charlituna said:

Also, your scenario with the USB stick is not a clean user experience.

I was pointing out why Apple needed to make Lion as something that installs clean. Yes, I know the DP currently available does.

What do you mean by not a clean user experience? If Apple puts a considerable price difference between the App store version and physical media version, would you pay for it just to save yourself from doing what I described above?

And Lion will install exactly the way the DP does. Apple never changed anything about the install methods of OS's from late beta stage to release. So I don't know what you are afraid about.

 

[Bear]

What do you mean by not a clean user experience? If Apple puts a considerable price difference between the App store version and physical media version, would you pay for it just to save yourself from doing what I described above?

And Lion will install exactly the way the DP does. Apple never changed anything about the install methods of OS's from late beta stage to release. So I don't know what you are afraid about.

Well for one thing, I already know from this forum thread that the disk image within the DP can be made in to a bootable installation DVD. (But it took a few pages of comments before someone came out with that information.)

And if for a fresh install I had to start with my system restore disk, yes the physical media would be worth much extra.

I never said I was afraid of anything. I was replying to a suggested scenario by someone pointing out that it was stupid.

There has been a lot of useful information from various people in this thread and a bunch of stupid ideas. Sometimes the stupidity needs to be pointed out.

Oh as for a "clean user experience", the more steps it takes to restore a system from a clean install, the less clean it is, especially if some of those steps takes hours. And the post I was replying to was suggesting a long time consuming scenario.

 

[iBug2]

Well for one thing, I already know from this forum thread that the disk image within the DP can be made in to a bootable installation DVD. (But it took a few pages of comments before someone came out with that information.)

And if for a fresh install I had to start with my system restore disk, yes the physical media would be worth much extra.

If you buy the physical media, you'll have to start your mac from the install disc, so what's the difference between starting from the media you bought or starting from the USB stick/DVD-R you created yourself? I'm pretty sure that Apple's price difference will be much more than a blank DVD-R.

And I haven't tested the bootable image thing from within the installer app myself, if it works, certainly better than the way I suggested.

 

[DocNYz]

Yeah, I'm not sure where I got the number 5 from. The App Store also is unlimited in terms of iOS devices, is that correct?

I like licensing terms like this. It's how software licenses should be.

You can share apps with 5 other computers legally, but I'm not sure if there is a limit to number of iOS devices per computer you can share.

 

[Cougarcat]

You can share apps with 5 other computers legally, but I'm not sure if there is a limit to number of iOS devices per computer you can share.

As has been previously stated, you can share mac and iOS apps to an unlimited number of devices, provided they have your AppleID.

 

[KnightWRX]

If you buy the physical media, you'll have to start your mac from the install disc, so what's the difference between starting from the media you bought or starting from the USB stick/DVD-R you created yourself? I'm pretty sure that Apple's price difference will be much more than a blank DVD-R.

Wait, now you're all for Apple letting us create our own USB sticks/DVD-R media ? I don't get your position.

What's wrong with going the extra step then and permitting the purchase of the install image to happen outside the Mac App Store for people who don't use it or want to use it ?

 

[ipedro]

Think Different.

I really want to buy Lion through the App Store as soon as it comes out, but I wonder if we'll be able to burn a Lion DVD, using the downloadable version.
There are occasions when a bootable OS DVD is the only way to format your Mac and I really don't want to install Snow Leopard and then upgrade to Lion every time I decide to format my HDD.

I came here to ask that same question. I wonder if I'd be able to put it on an external hard drive, pen drive, etc...

I hope there's a disk release so that if I have to restore/clean install I won't have to install Snow Leopard, download 10.6.8 then download and install Lion.

I downloaded the dev preview 3 version from the Mac store and I was able to make a bootable DVD out of it, however there was no utility to do that. I had to find the dmg file in the package. Hopefully Apple will provide a better way to do that.

I agree with everyone here that they still need to provide a dvd or a thumb drive for installation or restore. This is unavoidable since if you restoring your mac how are you to connect to the internet. They must provide a physical medium to install or restore to the mac.

Are you guys sure you're Apple users? Think Different.

I believe that Apple will put permanent code on your Mac that will allow you to download the OS without disks or even a bootable partition. Remember that MacBookAir and probably future MacBookPro's don't have optical drives. One way to do it is to modify the firmware to include a very rudimentary Mac App Store so that if you boot without an OS present, you can log in with your AppleID and the firmware will download Lion and install on a fresh HDD. A 1MB piece of code could do this and can fit on the firmware chip so that even if you swap out the HDD, you can boot without a disk.

 

[Bear]

If you buy the physical media, you'll have to start your mac from the install disc, so what's the difference between starting from the media you bought or starting from the USB stick/DVD-R you created yourself? I'm pretty sure that Apple's price difference will be much more than a blank DVD-R.

And I haven't tested the bootable image thing from within the installer app myself, if it works, certainly better than the way I suggested.

If it's a 10.6 Disk with the Lion installer on it, the difference is being able to start a Lion version of various utilities from the Installation medium for system recovery. Yes, I read the comments that said it was going to create a recovery partition, but even those can get corrupted. I like having recovery utilities on read only media.

Also, after someone suggested it may make the Recovery partition in a similar way that bootcamp makes a partition, I went and read up on the Apple site how you make a bootcamp partition. Well guess what? I can't make a bootcamp partition on my system due to the restrictions. What if it can't make the recovery partition for some reason, then yes I must have a Lion Installation DVD that I can boot from and use the various recovery tools to try and rectify the issue.

EDIT: Bootcamp restricts you to having only one partition on the disk which you want to make a bootcamp partition on.

 

[JoeG4]

Look, I teach CS and Software Engineering outlines development cycles for a reason. I want Lion as much as everyone else but I was a STABLE version that runs all my software. Not a version that is riddled with bugs because Apple is so secret that don't even let developers test their software on the new OS.

Is your last name Schwarz by any chance?

 

[iBug2]

Wait, now you're all for Apple letting us create our own USB sticks/DVD-R media ? I don't get your position.

What's wrong with going the extra step then and permitting the purchase of the install image to happen outside the Mac App Store for people who don't use it or want to use it ?

Now? Since the start of this discussion I kept saying that using the thing you download from the App Store, you can create your own installer disk/stick if you choose to.

There's nothing wrong with going the extra step and permitting the purchase it from somewhere other than the App Store. Although that'd mean Apple would have to create a separate store for that, since they don't have any other credit card accepting system than App Store and Developer Connection.

Edit: Forgot iTunes.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Are you guys sure you're Apple users? Think Different.

I believe that Apple will put permanent code on your Mac that will allow you to download the OS without disks or even a bootable partition. Remember that MacBookAir and probably future MacBookPro's don't have optical drives. One way to do it is to modify the firmware to include a very rudimentary Mac App Store so that if you boot without an OS present, you can log in with your AppleID and the firmware will download Lion and install on a fresh HDD. A 1MB piece of code could do this and can fit on the firmware chip so that even if you swap out the HDD, you can boot without a disk.

Now there's an idea Apple would actually implement, if I was in their shoes I'd consider something like this for future Macs. That would make things SO much easier.

 

[iBug2]

If it's a 10.6 Disk with the Lion installer on it, the difference is being able to start a Lion version of various utilities from the Installation medium for system recovery. Yes, I read the comments that said it was going to create a recovery partition, but even those can get corrupted. I like having recovery utilities on read only media.

Also, after someone suggested it may make the Recovery partition in a similar way that bootcamp makes a partition, I went and read up on the Apple site how you make a bootcamp partition. Well guess what? I can't make a bootcamp partition on my system due to the restrictions. What if it can't make the recovery partition for some reason, then yes I must have a Lion Installation DVD that I can boot from and use the various recovery tools to try and rectify the issue.

The recovery partition is always created when you install Lion. So even if the old one was corrupted, it creates a new one for the install. So as long as you have the Lion installer on somewhere read-only, you'll always have a fresh recovery partition. And don't bother yourself about bootcamp stuff. It's "like" that. Not "exactly" that.

About recovery utilities being the most recent, you can just create a Lion disk with Lion installer on it if you like, after purchasing Lion.

 

[tjb1]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but Lion is nowhere near ready for release.

The betas are flaky at best.

No developers have had time to build against Lion for testing.

If Apple released Lion without going through normal development cycles it would be suicide.

Look, I teach CS and Software Engineering outlines development cycles for a reason. I want Lion as much as everyone else but I was a STABLE version that runs all my software. Not a version that is riddled with bugs because Apple is so secret that don't even let developers test their software on the new OS.

Finally, at the risk of being hated, I sure hope Lion doesn't disappoint. Nothing I seen so far in Lion makes me go "Wow!" like previous full versions have (SL does not count).

Oh, and I too would like a DVD...

Cheers!
-P

No way are we going to have a WWDC release. We're still on Developer Previews, not even a Beta. Going straight to RTM would be nuts.

Plus, I'm betting on some headline features being unveiled at WWDC, or at least some new aspects to the OS. Remember WWDC 2009? We learnt about Grand Central amongst other things and SL came nearly 3 months later (so says Wikipedia!)

What WWDC will give is a Beta incorporating the latest updates to the DP series of builds, plus whatever Apple's been hiding until now. Release to follow.

*Insert lame 'You heard it here first' cliche*

No way will Lion be released at WWDC. It just isn’t ready. I predict a July or August release.

We will get a demo of a few new features and a recap of what we already know. (There hasn’t been an update on Lion since last October.) There will be another DP released on the day of the keynote, then a few more builds after that before the GM in July/August.

Considering WWDC happens in the Spring and Apple said Summer '11, anyone hoping for a WWDC release is living in a fantasy world.

Look at all the Apple employees we have!

Well, let's just continue to the point where we get it right: If you don't accept the EULA (as you demonstrate by installing MacOS X on a Hackintosh), then you have no license, therefore no right to make any copies at all, therefore copyright infringement. And since an unmodified copy of MacOS X will not install on any unmodified PC without circumvention of the DRM, that's a DMCA violation.

Running a hackintosh or not, are you a total loser to make a statement like this??

Any fool can build a hackintosh. Keep it to yourself.

If you love MacOs so much you should support them by buying the hardware as well.

Seriously, get off your high horse. If someone wants to put it on a computer they built and they paid for it, who the hell cares? If you are so law abiding and caring, why dont you go arrest them instead of policing a forum...

 

[Cougarcat]

I

Also, after someone suggested it may make the Recovery partition in a similar way that bootcamp makes a partition, I went and read up on the Apple site how you make a bootcamp partition. Well guess what? I can't make a bootcamp partition on my system due to the restrictions.

What restrictions are those?

 

[iBug2]

Seriously, get off your high horse. If someone wants to put it on a computer they built and they paid for it, who the hell cares? If you are so law abiding and caring, why dont you go arrest them instead of policing a forum...

Nobody cares, but it's hilarious when hackintosh users demand an install system which is convenient for them )))

 

[Bear]

Are you guys sure you're Apple users? Think Different.

I believe that Apple will put permanent code on your Mac that will allow you to download the OS without disks or even a bootable partition. Remember that MacBookAir and probably future MacBookPro's don't have optical drives. One way to do it is to modify the firmware to include a very rudimentary Mac App Store so that if you boot without an OS present, you can log in with your AppleID and the firmware will download Lion and install on a fresh HDD. A 1MB piece of code could do this and can fit on the firmware chip so that even if you swap out the HDD, you can boot without a disk.

Your suggestion is just so laughable. There is not enough room in the firmware memory to do something like that. Just think of everything that's needed in that space. That includes the public keys for the App Store.

Also, it needs to be code that can handle net interruptions and the like. And the amount of time to download an OS from the internet is not trivial.

For people who know what they're doing, have an bootable Lion DVD (or USB stick) makes sense.

For people who don't know what they're doing - they will get a bad hard disk replaced by Apple. And Apple will help them do that recovery at least up to a certain point. And hopefully they have a time machine backup to help them the rest of the way.