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Mac OS X 10.6.8 to Remove MacDefender, Get Mac App Store Ready for Lion

baryon said:
Lion has a recovery partition like Windows 7 does. That way, you can boot into that partition and perform everything you can do on the DVD - but without the DVD.
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I still prefer a physical disc or read-only USB stick (like the MacBook Air has).

A recovery image on the standard HD is not an option for me. Too easy for malware to infect it, so it can be sure it can persist even through an OS reinstallation.

If it can be manually written to a USB stick then fine (I've got write-protected USB drives) but if Apple offers a physical media option besides the App Store download then I'll take it for sure even if it's double the price.
 
iBug2 said:
Except like I said, and you ignored, you need to burn it to something to install OS X from it.
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I didn't ignore it. I'll repeat it again in case you missed it the first 2 times : you "burn" it to the USB thumb drive, which then becomes bootable and lets you install.

Or you burn it to DVD and you boot and install from that.

Or you mount it install from that.

Or... ISO images are really the most versatile thing there is.

Why can't Apple just sell you the ISO image and a utility to "write" it to any media you like. It could be made dead simple and wouldn't require the App Store or running an "installer" on a Mac. It should also be available for purchase and download outside the Mac App Store.

iBug2 said:
The recovery partition is less than a gigabyte in size. Not a terrible loss.
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That's 3 anime episodes in 720p.
 
GekkePrutser said:
I still prefer a physical disc or read-only USB stick (like the MacBook Air has).

A recovery image on the standard HD is not an option for me. Too easy for malware to infect it, so it can be sure it can persist even through an OS reinstallation.

If it can be manually written to a USB stick then fine (I've got write-protected USB drives) but if Apple offers a physical media option besides the App Store download then I'll take it for sure even if it's double the price.
Click to expand...

Take a USB stick, or a DVD-R, install OS X on it, and put it on the side. Why do you need Apple to give it to you? You can put a bootable OS X on any HFS+ partition of any kind, you always could.
 
No way will Lion be released at WWDC. It just isn’t ready. I predict a July or August release.

We will get a demo of a few new features and a recap of what we already know. (There hasn’t been an update on Lion since last October.) There will be another DP released on the day of the keynote, then a few more builds after that before the GM in July/August.
 
KnightWRX said:
I didn't ignore it. I'll repeat it again in case you missed it the first 2 times : you "burn" it to the USB thumb drive, which then becomes bootable and lets you install.

Or you burn it to DVD and you boot and install from that.

Or you mount it install from that.

Or... ISO images are really the most versatile thing there is.



That's 3 anime episodes in 720p.
Click to expand...
And like I wrote and you ignored, installing directly using an app > more than twice as fast as installing it after burning it onto something, be it USB or DVD-R.

Also ISO is not the most versatile thing around. App Store App is. Because you can simply create an install disc using the App Store App. Just install OS X and copy the installer App onto it, there you go, your own personal OS X install USB stick.

Edit: You don't need to install OS X onto the stick, just copy the app, which is enough. As long as you want the USB stick to be an OS install stick, that's enough.
But you can't use the ISO to install OS X the way you can through App Store. So App Store way is the most versatile one.
 
Last edited:
I bet that an "update only" version will be available through Mac App Store.

I you want the complete version, you will need to buy the DVD.
 
iBug2 said:
Also ISO is not the most versatile thing around. App Store App is. Because you can simply create an install disc using the App Store App. Just install OS X and copy the installer App onto it, there you go, your own personal OS X install USB stick.
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Am I reading this correctly?

You are saying to do an OS X install onto a USB flash drive then copy the Lion Installer from the App Store on to that same USB stick?

When you do that you can't write protect the USB flash drive. You need the Lion download to be a bootable ISO image so when burnt to a DVD it's bootable. Or when it's copied on to a USB flash stick that is then write protected.
 
iBug2 said:
And like I wrote and you ignored, installing directly using an app > more than twice as fast as installing it after burning it onto something, be it USB or DVD-R.
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That requires I have an OS already up and running. Having media external to an installed OS is a must for me and many others.

iBug2 said:
Also ISO is not the most versatile thing around. App Store App is. Because you can simply create an install disc using the App Store App. Just install OS X and copy the installer App onto it, there you go, your own personal OS X install USB stick.
Click to expand...

The App store requires me to have OS X to purchase and download the installer. An ISO could be acquired and downloaded from any other OS or computer in case a Mac is not readily available. An ISO is much more versatile, unless you don't actually know what versatile means. ;)

iBug2 said:
Edit: You don't need to install OS X onto the stick, just copy the app, which is enough. As long as you want the USB stick to be an OS install stick, that's enough.
But you can't use the ISO to install OS X the way you can through App Store. So App Store way is the most versatile one.
Click to expand...

You can use the ISO download to install the same way that the App Store does. Again since you missed all 3 first times :

Mount it. Run installer.

Except the ISO also allows you to create bootable media using different types of said media (USB thumb drive, optical disk) also. It is more versatile.

I don't even see how you can claim the App Store method is versatile, it's basically just 1 way of doing it that is completely inflexible. There is no versatility there.

iBug2 said:
Copy those 3 anime episodes on your now empty USB stick. :)
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I need to store them on my HDD first. And why would I copy them to USB sticks ? I copy them to my NAS after watching them from my laptop.

Seems to me you're just trying to defend the Mac App Store here. It's fine for apps. I don't personally like it or use it, but I don't think it's a bad thing. For an OS install though ? Way too confining and restricting. It lacks versatility.
 
catracho said:
I bet that an "update only" version will be available through Mac App Store.

I you want the complete version, you will need to buy the DVD.
Click to expand...
No App Store version for me then. I like the option of being able to do a fresh install without having to install an older version of OS X and then updating it so the App Store download will work.
 
catracho said:
I bet that an "update only" version will be available through Mac App Store.

I you want the complete version, you will need to buy the DVD.
Click to expand...

App Store will have a complete installer, just like right now with the DP's. And unlike a DVD, Apple may even update the installer on App Store every now and then, so people can simply get 10.7.5 installer, or 10.7.9 installer.

Apple did that once or twice in ADC with Leopard and SL, but not with every release. But of course this is a speculation on my part.
 
Bear said:
No App Store version for me then. I like the option of being able to do a fresh install without having to install an older version of OS X and then updating it so the App Store download will work.
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I doubt you need to worry, as you can install the beta from the App Store as a fresh install. The only "update" version Apple makes is the one they stick inside their computer boxes at the time of release.
 
Cougarcat said:
I doubt you need to worry, as you can install the beta from the App Store as a fresh install. The only "update" version Apple makes is the one they stick inside their computer boxes at the time of release.
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Is what gets downloaded for the Lion DP a bootable ISO image? I don't think anyone has stated that clearly. They've just said you get an installer.
 
Bear said:
Is what gets downloaded for the Lion DP a bootable ISO image? I don't think anyone has stated that clearly. They've just said you get an installer.
Click to expand...

It's an installer with a .dmg contained inside. If you do "show package contents" on it you can find the dmg which you can burn. (See here.)
 
KnightWRX said:
You can use the ISO download to install the same way that the App Store does. Again since you missed all 3 first times :

Mount it. Run installer.
Click to expand...

You cannot install from mounted ISO's. Not OS X. It always needs to boot from it. There are some "hack" ways to do it, like getting into the invisible folders and finding the install packages and installing them one by one, and even then it's not always guaranteed that the installed OS will boot.

KnightWRX said:
The App store requires me to have OS X to purchase and download the installer. An ISO could be acquired and downloaded from any other OS or computer in case a Mac is not readily available. An ISO is much more versatile, unless you don't actually know what versatile means.
Click to expand...

Well, if you are installing OS X, that means you have a mac. If that mac has not OS X installed on it, then ok, you have a point. You can't buy Lion without the old OS X. So what you are saying is that in the following situation you can't use App Store app:

You lost your OS X disc which came with your mac and your macs hard drive got somehow erased and no OS X installs are there.

I'd say that's a pretty low probability situation but I give you that in that situation an ISO is better, that is, if you have a PC lying around.

KnightWRX said:
Seems to me you're just trying to defend the Mac App Store here. It's fine for apps. I don't personally like it or use it, but I don't think it's a bad thing. For an OS install though ? Way too confining and restricting. It lacks versatility.
Click to expand...


I'm not trying to defend it. I am defending it. Like I said, the App store install App gives a much faster and convenient install process for me. For years I always installed OS X through copying/burning it onto some external drive/DVD-R and then booting from it, and even if you do it from a SATA partition to save on time, it's still more than twice as fast to use the installler App and just install. No burning/copying anymore.

So for me, and the way I install OS X, this way is more than twice as fast.

About versatility, like I said, as long as you have a mac, and I assume you have, just copy the App on a USB stick, and save it somewhere.
 
Bear said:
Is what gets downloaded for the Lion DP a bootable ISO image? I don't think anyone has stated that clearly. They've just said you get an installer.
Click to expand...

It doesn't need to be booted. Because when you hit install, it copies couple hundred megabytes to the install partition, and then boots from the install partition.

So by hitting install, you are basically creating a bootable partition.
 
iBug2 said:
You cannot install from mounted ISO's. Not OS X. It always needs to boot from it. There are some "hack" ways to do it, like getting into the invisible folders and finding the install packages and installing them one by one, and even then it's not always guaranteed that the installed OS will boot.
Click to expand...

But you can from a mounted .DMG ? Seems to me that's not a limitation of ISO's per se, but rather of Apple's installer.

iBug2 said:
Well, if you are installing OS X, that means you have a mac. If that mac has not OS X installed on it, then ok, you have a point. You can't buy Lion without the old OS X. So what you are saying is that in the following situation you can't use App Store app:

You lost your OS X disc which came with your mac and your macs hard drive got somehow erased and no OS X installs are there.

I'd say that's a pretty low probability situation but I give you that in that situation an ISO is better.
Click to expand...

Other scenarios :

- You are not running Snow Leopard on said Mac.
- You are not registered on the Mac App Store nor have any desire to.
- Your Mac doesn't have broadband, but your friend with his Windows computer does.

iBug2 said:
I'm not trying to defend it. I am defending it.
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Why ? Do you work for Apple and have you been involved in its creation ?

Look, you're not scoring any points, you're just trying to give me workarounds. I don't want workarounds, I don't want to use the Mac App Store, I don't like the concept. I think it is limiting.

I will buy the DVD since for me, that is the most versatile solution.
 
Cougarcat said:
It's an installer with a .dmg contained inside. If you do "show package contents" on it you can find the dmg which you can burn. (See here.)
Click to expand...
Thank you that answers that. And the link answers it very well.

iBug2 said:
It doesn't need to be booted. Because when you hit install, it copies couple hundred megabytes to the install partition, and then boots from the install partition.

So with hitting install, you are basically creating a bootable partition.
Click to expand...

What installer partition? I don't have one on my computer. And where is it going to carve it out of my disk which is already partitioned?
 
Bear said:
Thank you that answers that. And the link answers it very well.



What installer partition? I don't have one on my computer. And where is it going to carve it out of my disk which is already partitioned?
Click to expand...

The partition you are installing Lion onto. I assume since you are installing OS X, you'll have a partition ready for installing it.
 
Bear said:
What installer partition? I don't have one on my computer. And where is it going to carve it out of my disk which is already partitioned?
Click to expand...

It creates a Recovery Partition when you start the install. (Edit: I misuderstood what iBug2 meant by that.)
 
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