Please please stop it with the big type. It's extremely annoying and hard to read... the occasional word is OK but endless paragraphs of 24 point is really unnecessary.
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Mac OS X on a PC?
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Artanmotion said:
Good Yes... Very Good.. Maybe........ Fantastic certainly not!
Artanmotion said:
For somethings yes... For others no
Artanmotion said:
Who knows? Five Years in the Computer industry is a very very long time.
Artanmotion said:
I do think Apple has the best opportunity to Strike with an OS for the masses right now
AND
I would say yes to your statement except we all have heard this story about Windows so many times before.
Little Trip down memory lane......
Windows 95 (wow what hype there was over it) didnt deliver
Windows 98... more of the same..
Then for 4 years we heard how great NT 5.0(Later renamed Windows 2000)
was going to be..... Still plagued by viruses and security holes..
Wait then it was all going to be fixed with Windows XP and Windows Server 2003... Guess what didnt deliver ... In fact problems increased.
Then SERVICE PACK 2 was going to fix everything... (Yeah Right! and I have a bridge to sell ya)
NOW its the great unreleased vaporware called Longhorn( Probably should be renamed LONGHYPE or at least LONGSHAFT(from Bill) ) SAME SONG SAME DANCE
Does your Nomad sync with iTunes?pubwvj said:
Does your Nomad work with ACC files from the iTunes Music Store?
Well, let us know when it starts working with iTunes, and then we'll worry about you stopping.
Just because iTunes can make MP3 files that your Nomad can play doesn't mean that they are working together... specially not in the same sense that the iPod works with iTunes... seamlessly.
I guess I had always hoped that quality was more important than peer pressure in people's purchasing choices.nbs2 said:
shyataroo said:
It's not a bad idea to stick with one company but absolutely not alienware. Alienware machines are made for high performance gaming and mac gaming....sucks. (please do not turn this ino a mac gaming thread)
The thing to remember is that most viruses that affected the pc version of os x wouldn't touch the mac version. This is because the chipset on which it is based will be fundamentally different which means that writing viruses at the machine level would be impossible. They would need to be recompiled which is just what they need to do now.
Artanmotion said:
Too long to quote the whole thing...
But as I think about it has some possibilities...
... thinking out loud...
... a reduced price reduced function OS X that runs on intel
... it would appeal to many home win users, let them experience iLife maybe come free in the iLife box
... with a little creative coding Apple could supply a little switcher kernal that allowed the user to switch into win & back (copy paste between them)
... Apple could include a trial version of MS-Office (MS would never allow that) and other apps that the win user uses, so he can try things he knows in the OS X world.
... with the exception of games and a few apps you could satisfy most home users
... OS X plays nicely with win file systems so OS X Finder & file dialogs could display these and use them directly-- even switch to win if you double-click a win file or app
... don't know about the pc in the office, though
... would need some way to handle all the different stuff (ActiveX, I think) used to customize the browser -- all the win-only apps, hardware &stuff
... but, that would be mitigated with a fast switch into/outof win.
... user would gravitate to the more pleasant environment-- the one which gives him less trouble
... why can't I run this on the OS X side, instead of the dark side questions/needs will arise
... will have to address these needs or the user will switch back into the dark side to get the job done & never return
Biggest negatives
--Mr Softy has big $ and would fight Apple at every opportunity
-- Does Apple want to have 2 concurrent OS X offerings
-- Are they capable of doing 2 concurrent OS X offerings
-- Apple could make money on the OS but it would not be selling Apple boxes
-- The win-only application issue has to be resolved or they will have this 5th-wheel OS iX that is nice, but doesnt' quite get the job done & it will be in everyone's crosshairs.
if Apple makes a declaration of war... it better be prepared to win it quickly.
A spontaneous uprising of the populace (fomented by Apple) may be the better choice
Hmmm...
trose said:Wow, Yvan, you've been busy.
Well, I just happened to start reading the topic and replying, and next thing you know there was already 10 pages of comments...
But "OS X for PC" is a really touchy topic, and I can't see the thread dying any time soon.
archer75 said:
What I mean is, Apple does design their OS, their interfaces, their casings, etc. They're the ones creating it all.
Dell, on the other hand, takes already-made motherboards, etc, adds software from Microsoft, and puts a Dell sticker on it.
excalibur313 said:
Well, first of all I think you meant "most viruses that would affect the PC version of OS X"...
Second, viruses and worms have more to do about software (OS) than hardware (ICs).
Third, OS X for PCs would need to be binary compatible to really attact PC users (or else that'd simply make yet another OS with pratically no apps).
Yvan256 said:
Dell designs thier cases as well. It does'nt change anything. Apple has other companies make the parts, apple designs the cases. Other companies build the actual cases. Parts are put into the cases and apples software is installed on it. Actually I don't think apple does any of the actual assemble themselves.
Dell designs thier cases, they get parts from other companies, they assemble them. They just don't make the OS.
So apple can make alot of money by porting the OS to PC's as there is a much larger market there.
The argument is then that no one will buy macs anymore if they can get the OS on a cheaper more powerful PC. Which is true. So apple then makes PC's like Dell or any other company.
They can make alot more money off of both hardware and software by opening up to the much larger PC market.
You could be right...
"Apple has a fantastic OS"
So loserman, you are a software developer? What in your eyes do Apple need to do to make it a fantastic OS?
People can be open to new experiences, I would imagine most Mac users would be, though look at the resistance to the move to OS X from 9. There will be so many who are conventional and conservative in the Windows wonderland, not interested in arty boxes and resistant to change, even for the good, once they have something workable. They don't want to make the effort to have to learn something new when, gosh, this will do.
With Longhorn, this is exactly what will happen, an awful lot of people are going to be satisfied with what they have and MicroSoft will become firmly intrenched and whole heartedly accepted. That will be the case soon... two years... tick... tick... tick...
Mind you! If I see another self declaration of stupidity again in the manifestation of Startup Items which are on by default and set by software publishers and can't be accessed by any graphical or intuative means only by the devine knowledge of a password within an environment that doesn't even hint to the existence of any such thing as Startup Items and has caused more worry and anguish and disappointment in people who's computers have nothing wrong with them and actually prompts these desperate people to go out and buy a brand new PC, because they are being conned and duped by shysters who don't want to help their user base improve the quality of their lives at all, as they are only interested in selling another upgrade to their mighty OS Windows... then you could be right and Apple might have another few years to play with.
You should be ashamed of your self Bill Gates. Are you trying to prove innate stupidity for the whole of MicroSoft?
"Apple has a fantastic OS"
OK, I concede! What I like about Apple though, is that they do try to do the very best and I do believe that they want to make a fantastic OS.~loserman~ said:
So loserman, you are a software developer? What in your eyes do Apple need to do to make it a fantastic OS?
The difference now, with Longhorn, is that it might actually be tolerable, for the majority, where as the previous versions of Windows were not. There are amazingly high numbers of people who tolerate and even like Windows now! People live in lands where all they see all year is snow... I have never understood that, but it happens, and for the many... they will tolerate what's there in front of them and get on with it. They will even fight to keep things the same because it gives them security.~loserman~ said:
People can be open to new experiences, I would imagine most Mac users would be, though look at the resistance to the move to OS X from 9. There will be so many who are conventional and conservative in the Windows wonderland, not interested in arty boxes and resistant to change, even for the good, once they have something workable. They don't want to make the effort to have to learn something new when, gosh, this will do.
With Longhorn, this is exactly what will happen, an awful lot of people are going to be satisfied with what they have and MicroSoft will become firmly intrenched and whole heartedly accepted. That will be the case soon... two years... tick... tick... tick...
Mind you! If I see another self declaration of stupidity again in the manifestation of Startup Items which are on by default and set by software publishers and can't be accessed by any graphical or intuative means only by the devine knowledge of a password within an environment that doesn't even hint to the existence of any such thing as Startup Items and has caused more worry and anguish and disappointment in people who's computers have nothing wrong with them and actually prompts these desperate people to go out and buy a brand new PC, because they are being conned and duped by shysters who don't want to help their user base improve the quality of their lives at all, as they are only interested in selling another upgrade to their mighty OS Windows... then you could be right and Apple might have another few years to play with.
You should be ashamed of your self Bill Gates. Are you trying to prove innate stupidity for the whole of MicroSoft?
Freedom to express
Do you not believe in a freedom to express yourself? Are you so narrow minded that you can be offended by fonts of a certain hue? Do bold letters give you a head ache? Do you have problems dealing with the world on a day to day basis?
Please explain the fascist idea of restricting peoples ability to express themselves in terms I can find acceptable.
...and if formatting a post is so terrible, why embolden your own text?
Please explain your position on why you believe it's OK for you to add tags, but it's not acceptable for me? Then if you are going to comment, comment on the topic.
Yvan256 said:
Do you not believe in a freedom to express yourself? Are you so narrow minded that you can be offended by fonts of a certain hue? Do bold letters give you a head ache? Do you have problems dealing with the world on a day to day basis?
Please explain the fascist idea of restricting peoples ability to express themselves in terms I can find acceptable.
...and if formatting a post is so terrible, why embolden your own text?
Do you actually feel like you have a need to express yourself? But nobody else should have that right but you?Yvan256 said:
Please explain your position on why you believe it's OK for you to add tags, but it's not acceptable for me? Then if you are going to comment, comment on the topic.
Artanmotion said:
Well, here's what I can say about "dealing with the world on a daily basis". Most things we see are made commercially and have designers working on them. They look clean, professional, credible. But you've probably seen your local TV ads at one time or another. Did they look poorly made, even silly? Something that looks poorly made doesn't give huge credibility.
In graphic design, your original post (the one I was commenting about) is called a "pizza". It makes the text extremely hard to read and distract from what you're trying to say. It works against you. As for bold/italic words, they're used to put an emphasis on specific words. You also don't see me putting every other 2 words in bold in my posts (I'm not saying you did that, but there was so many font size changes, font face changes and color changes that it amounts to the same thing).
It's not about restricting people's "liberty" (removing font sizes and font faces), it's about removing tools for people who don't know how to use them properly. Removing these tools wouldn't prevent you from posting your comments.
I'm not trying to insult you here, but to help you. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who had a hard time trying to read your post because of the pizza look (Blue Velvet being one of them, and that's not counting those who didn't voice their opinion on the subject). Which is bad for you, because some people won't even bother to read what you wrote, which is the goal of forums, to exchange opinions.
Lastly, I'm sorry for this reply, which is again off-topic.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Never, ever, ever happen (again)...
This would be like the whole clone experience, but a zillion times worse.
Apple makes their money on hardware, not software.
End of story.
This would be like the whole clone experience, but a zillion times worse.
Apple makes their money on hardware, not software.
End of story.
Thanks for your thoughts dicklacara!dicklacara said:
I wasn't thinking about the possibilities of dual OS running simultainiously on the same PC and I don't think there is much benefit from doing so appart from in business when there is a switch from one system to another. In which case that would be very helpful I'm sure.
I thought your other points were very interesting to think about. Just what would Microsoft do in such a situation as Apple selling an alternative to Windows for the PC? No more support of Office? A change of their software to make businesses tied into Microsoft ie. Office not being compatible with non Windows versions in the future? Would the business world put up with a product that wasn't helping them to communicate? Should Apple produce a 'with standards' Office product for Windows users which will open files accross OS's? Would they withhold support for Windows Media Player for Apple OS's?
"Does Apple want to have two concurrent OS X offerings?"
No they should never do this, because of inequalities of the underlying hardware. This would of course lead to a loss in hardware sales on the PPC front. What my post pointed out is that there should be an OS X derived product with an older and as you say, reduced, feature set. It shouldn't be marketed as such, a lesser product, but extolling it's virtues... simple to use and with rights to your own media! It should be marketed as the best possible solution on x86. Maybe only for x64 and up. It would be typical of Apple to look at it this way as there is a loggic to it. Forget backward compatability with 32 bit... force adoption to newer standars as this clears a lot of problems.
It will look a little different, and have a feature or two better on the platform than on OS X to show it is a product aimed at that market. Think again of BMW - they came out with an updated Mini which would appeal to a market sector - whole heartedly. It has to be the best possible solution for that sector. Would BMW be selling a lot of two year old 3 series styled cars, shrunk to 12' long? No they designed something with huge appeal of it's own. That is what Apple would need to do. Make something wonderful for the PC market, but OS X would still be the flagship. Marketed as cutting edge for features the Mac and OS X will still appeal to power users and those who want the assurance of reliability for work critical exploits. The creatives will still buy in to OS X as it will contain some professional features not available else where. Then there's the rest who just want the cudos, the style, the best!
Maybe this PC OS will come in a range of five colours and it will look very simple and stylish, maybe a more loud and brash appeal of colour in the same vein as the original iMac, but then with an option to 'iPod style it' white too. A look of symlicity. Five colours, plus a white interface to choose from. "Style it up on PC!" It would be fashionable, cool, 'I want one!' territry. Market share can shift hugely when you differentiate yourself. It needs a style and function for the market. When momentum builds and all the games are ported because of the considerable userbase then the games players will move in too.
I'm a designer myself so I can see how easy it would be... I'm just amazed at how little vission all these companies have and how poor their offerings are. It would be sold on simplicity (if the dodgy hardware is working...) "it just works!" Appealing to families with children, the non technical, those new to computers and the stylish and fashionable. It won't appeal to the die hards who have become expert in fixing their computers. "...Oh the Mac OS, it's for simple people!" and quite right too!
Can Apple do two concurrent OS's? They made one OS with a budget. with the increased revenue of a greater market share it should be no problem. Then Boxes... With the Mac still appealling to many and a shift from those who have liked other Apple products they have tried and who want to experience the best, hardware sales should rise. So Is there any reason Apple shouldn't build a PC to match their new OS? Something stylish for the home? Minimal, sleek, fun, whatever? Something for the office, something for children to compliment a perfectly simple OS? Hardware sales have the chance to rocket with mass manufacturing.
This direction also gives great versitility and future resiliance as it shadows the opposition and allows for fleet of foot adaptation to developing hardware, should, the old story, PPC fall by the ways side.
More likely MicroSoft will create Longhorn for G5s as they have already developed a development platform, running on Apple G5's, for the X Box. If Microsoft chose the G5 for the X box wouldn't it follow they would want there OS to be on the best chips with the best future? Unknown to the industry yet is that PC manufacturers are gearing up for Longhorn G5..!
Somewhat related
Apple stock is up about $3.00 to over $81.00.
Yes!
Forbes posted the bit below.
I especially like the way they describe Apple in paragraph 2
Apple Computer (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) has set a 2-for-1 split of its common stock, effective Feb 28.
The computer giant set a proportional increase in the number of its shares authorized, to 1.8 billion from 900 million.
Apple stock is up about $3.00 to over $81.00.
Yes!
Forbes posted the bit below.
I especially like the way they describe Apple in paragraph 2
Apple Computer (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people ) has set a 2-for-1 split of its common stock, effective Feb 28.
The computer giant set a proportional increase in the number of its shares authorized, to 1.8 billion from 900 million.
RacerX said:
Yes, the Nomad works fine with iTunes. That is how I load music onto the Nomad II MG. The original version of iTunes required a plugin from Creative Labs but for a long time that hasn't been necessary and iTunes and the Nomad work together without anything extra.
RacerX said:
It doesn't use the ACC files but they can easily be translated to MP3 files.
RacerX said:
No kidding. The Nomad doesn't have some of the iPod's features but it does work seamlessly. I place the Nomad in it's dock which connects to the USB port of my Mac. iTunes recognizes the Nomad and shows what is on the internal memory and the removable memory card. I can then drag songs to the Nomad, delete songs from the Nomad, etc. Very easy.
I would buy an iPod if I didn't have the Nomad but I bought it long before the iPod came out and it is still doing the job just fine. It now works better with iTunes than it did when I bought it. Thanks to Apple's excellent iTunes programming. Apple doesn't force you to use an iPod.
Artanmotion said:
This isn't necessarily true (MSFT proves that every day).
With creatitive activities (and that is what OS X is) it is usually better to limit the project to a few talented people, who are true believers... who can sit around a table and think outloud... a freeflow of ideas... each feeding off the other. And everyone knows what the others are doing when they are not together brainstorming.
If not, you begin to spend all your (and everybody's) time in meetings, or worse, pre-meeting meetings: where a smaller group gets together to work out the their position before attending the real meeting.
Stated another way, the group should be small enough that they can easily interact and spend the bulk of their time creating.
The concept is called an interaction matrix. Some studies have shown (sorry, no reference here) that the optimal size of a group to get anything done is 5 or less people.
If the core of creative people is already involved elsewhere, a new core needs to address the OS variant, and it will likely (almost certainly) diverge from the other,
That is interesting... I guess that means that Apple could offer OS X Tiger for the xBox and have a hear or more lead over what Longtooth [sp] delivers to the platform.
How does an xBox compare to the Mac mini?
Dick
WAKE UP!
There are a lot of naysayers here who think in exclusivistic terms (Macs are better, no Mac OS on PCs!) or in concrete fashion (they make money on boxes, not software).
Do you remember when the Mac OS was nearly extincted? Exclusivity isn't good if you want to continue to Mac for a long time to come. I never thought they'd get THIS chance to correct their mistake of not licensing the OS (or selling their own) for the PC. People will still buy Macs because they have an image; people still buy Ferraris and BMWs even though a Hyundai still gets you from point A to point B. The software offerings will increase 100fold if widespread acceptance is achieved on the PC: can you say "games"?
Do you know who the richest man in the world is, or who the largest company in tech is? Got software? It's where it's at. In business terms: $50 x 10 billion boxes (MS's formula = $500 billion) is more than $500 x 1 million boxes (Apple's formula = $500 million). Jobs has always thought in terms of boxes, and that's why he's the man people like to admire, but Gates is the one people would like to be (only for the money, of course).
There are downsides (viruses, compatibility issues), but this is a no-brainer if you know anything about business.
David
There are a lot of naysayers here who think in exclusivistic terms (Macs are better, no Mac OS on PCs!) or in concrete fashion (they make money on boxes, not software).
Do you remember when the Mac OS was nearly extincted? Exclusivity isn't good if you want to continue to Mac for a long time to come. I never thought they'd get THIS chance to correct their mistake of not licensing the OS (or selling their own) for the PC. People will still buy Macs because they have an image; people still buy Ferraris and BMWs even though a Hyundai still gets you from point A to point B. The software offerings will increase 100fold if widespread acceptance is achieved on the PC: can you say "games"?
Do you know who the richest man in the world is, or who the largest company in tech is? Got software? It's where it's at. In business terms: $50 x 10 billion boxes (MS's formula = $500 billion) is more than $500 x 1 million boxes (Apple's formula = $500 million). Jobs has always thought in terms of boxes, and that's why he's the man people like to admire, but Gates is the one people would like to be (only for the money, of course).
There are downsides (viruses, compatibility issues), but this is a no-brainer if you know anything about business.
David