Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
So the Server Edition is nothing that special except it has admin tools, good back-up system and use it to update other macs. I would rather use that money on Leopard and ram or hard drive upgrades.:)

To me the whole point of OS X Server (I run both OS X Server and OS X on other Macs) is that is for an unattended Mac running 24/7 to provide services to the LAN or WAN. For example I'm running QT Streaming Server and Apache to name but two inbuilt services and I also run a 3rd party product called Webstar V. My Old G4 tower sits on a leased T1 connection (aka Co-Lo) with a bunch of static IPs, it's fifty miles from my home but this allows me to run web sites, stream video and do stuff I couldn't easily do from home on a Verizon domestic 5/15 Fios connection with dynamic IPs.

I can see the 'screen' of my remote Mac using VNC or ARD if I wish but most functions are performed with the admin tools used on the client side.

To my mind it's not intended for a normal user to run OS X server on the machine they use for normal work. In fact it would be a pain to do so (I tried it), but as I say for a remote machine or even a local LAN dedicated server it is fabulous for multitude of functions.
 
Wow, this is all very interesting. I haven't gotten to play with OS X Server at all, but it sounds like i could almost recreate all that functionality by configuring OSS packages? obviously i won't have apple support, but as an experienced admin, i could probably replicate most things.

Does anyone know if someone has created a how-to on recreating Server?
 
Um, if dollers gets weaker when compared to Pound, then the price of Apple-hardware should go down in the UK. Apple is an American compnay that bills their good in dollars. If one pound goes up in value when compared to the dollar, then goods that are billed in dollars should get cheaper for people in UK.
No. It seems counterintuitive at first, but Apple does not bill in dollars. It sells its products in the European market at fixed prices, just like in the US. Once the price is established, if the dollar falls, the product becomes comparatively cheaper in the US because the European prices remain the same--they're not reduced to account for the exchange rate change. A weak dollar means lower real profit for Apple in the US, because Apple doesn't change their prices daily, but it gives American customers a modest competitive advantage as a result.

This cuts both ways, however. When the dollar gains strength, European products begin to become "cheaper."

An example: Finland uses Euros, Estonia uses Crowns. Suppose one Euro buys you 10 Crowns, and some product costs 200 Crowns in Estonia. If I went to Estonia and bought the product there, it would cost 200 / 10 = 20 euros. Now, suppose that value of Crown goes down when compared to Euro. Now one Euro gets you 15 Crowns. That product would still cost 200 Crowns, in Euros it would cost me 200 / 15 = 13.3 euros.
Estonia is weaker currency in your example, so that proves exactly the point. The Crowns are the ones with the falling currency. To be accurate, you would have to put the fixed price in Euros.

If the product costs 200 Crowns or 20 Euros, and the Euro gains strength to 15 Crowns (over 10), but the prices remain the same, the 20 Euro product costs effectively more (because 20 Euros is now worth 300 Crowns, but EU customers are still paying 20 Euros for the same product and Americans, er, Estonians are still paying 200 Crowns). The people in Estonia get a cheaper price. Your basic idea is correct, but not for product pricing--only for daily exchange rates.
Weaker dollar would mean that the product should cost less.
Only if the price is changed to follow the daily exchange rate. It does not, which is why, as I said, this is an instance where the weak dollar hurts UK consumers.

That said, the weakness of the dollar is only one of two factors, as indicated. The other factor is purchasing power. There is a positive PPP working against UK customers--£1 generally gets you less than $1.96 does. For example, the British equivalent of a gallon of milk costs about £2 (~$4) IIRC, where the average US price is just below $3. And the British aren't buying American milk.
While the prices of Apple products in the UK aren't that much higher than the US, you can't just avoid adding VAT to the prices when comparing, as not all of the United States pay tax on sales, do they?
Sure you can. They list prices without VAT on their stores, and that's the comparison price. Apple can't avoid charging VAT any more than you can avoid paying it. If it makes products more expensive (and it does by a considerable margin [the average sales tax paid by US customers is around 7% for comparison]), that's the doing of your government. It's not fair to claim that Apple is ripping customers off when the majority of the price difference is due to a local government-mandated surcharge and not the retailer/manufacturer's actual pricing.
And for all your good points about the strong pound, and the relatively weak dollar, how does that explain that the Adobe CS3 Master Suite
It doesn't. There are absolutely products that are overpriced by a large margin in some markets by the manufacturers. Apple hardware just isn't one of them.

Tax, currency, and the cost of international business can conceivably account for up to about a 35-40% bottom line increases in the UK. Anything beyond that is from some other cause (retailer markup, corporate greed, industry-specific compliance costs [e.g. the higher warranty standards on some products sold in the EU], and/or some other factor).
 
Tax, currency, and the cost of international business can conceivably account for up to about a 35-40% bottom line increases in the UK. Anything beyond that is from some other cause (retailer markup, corporate greed, industry-specific compliance costs [e.g. the higher warranty standards on some products sold in the EU], and/or some other factor).

Hmm, if the VAT in UK is 17.5% you're saying that it's 17.5-22.5% more expensive to do business in UK. If that really is the case, I'd think that the businesses would be fleeing UK. As far as I know, they're not, on the contrary, UK is attracting new businesses so I'd be inclined to believe you're mistaken.
 
Hmm, if the VAT in UK is 17.5% you're saying that it's 17.5-22.5% more expensive to do business in UK. If that really is the case, I'd think that the businesses would be fleeing UK. As far as I know, they're not, on the contrary, UK is attracting new businesses so I'd be inclined to believe you're mistaken.
It's not 17.5-22.5% more expensive to do business because the customers pay VAT to companies, which turn it over to the government. It's not like companies are eating the cost of VAT and struggling to make money. VAT has no impact on profitability because all computers are charged VAT in the countries that have it. Note that the 35-40% increase is a consumer price increase, not a business cost increase.

The US prices are a bad comparison to UK/EU prices incl VAT, because US prices don't include any sort of VAT. Taxation is external, conducted by states individually. The rate of sales tax is added to the price later in the process. It doesn't matter to Apple whether the tax is 0% or 5% or 50%, because all they do is add it to their retail price and collect from the customer.
 
Yep It's Free... if you consider +$499 Free anyways

Picture7.png


:eek:
Sebastian :apple:
 
Wow, this is all very interesting. I haven't gotten to play with OS X Server at all, but it sounds like i could almost recreate all that functionality by configuring OSS packages? obviously i won't have apple support, but as an experienced admin, i could probably replicate most things.

Does anyone know if someone has created a how-to on recreating Server?

Seems a lot of work and even then you would not have all the wonderful client applications. You should check out the real thing.
 
New-Zealand store does not offer OSX Server with the Mac Pro.
French and Spanish stores OSX Server is free. Probably most other are offering it free as well.
 

Attachments

  • french.jpg
    french.jpg
    73.8 KB · Views: 163
OS X Server doesn't include iLife. It's also far more fragile than OS X, and an average user could probably screw it up in just a few minutes.

Offering this for free probably isn't a good idea, especially when OS X Server isn't supported under Applecare - the pro support is insanely expensive and getting support off the web is difficult, not least because most support articles date back to older versions.

I love OS X Server, but it's not something that should be used on any machine other than a full on server.
 
So what is included with Server that is not free

What does Apple include with "Server" that is not part of the normal Mac OS X that is not already free.

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/

OK I looked at the above URL. Tthe question remains. "What in "Server" is not available for free on the Internet." Every service included if you read between the lines on the Aple site you can see which package thev'e included. Seems to me what you are paying for is for Apple to have done the leg work to bundle this up and put it on a DVD.
 
Seems a lot of work and even then you would not have all the wonderful client applications. You should check out the real thing.

You are probably right... not worth my time to get everything set up and working together, if i can't do it all in 10 hours or less.

If it comes free to the US stores soon, i will definitely check it out. or i will sign up as a developer to get my Ocho, and get it through there (or wait and get leopard server thru there? will that work?). I will wait til NAB and see what happens.
 
You are probably right... not worth my time to get everything set up and working together, if i can't do it all in 10 hours or less.

If it comes free to the US stores soon, i will definitely check it out. or i will sign up as a developer to get my Ocho, and get it through there (or wait and get leopard server thru there? will that work?). I will wait til NAB and see what happens.

I am drooling at the thought of something at NAB that might be a 'suped' up 8 core with better graphics card and Blu-Ray ... Can but hope :)
 
OS X Server doesn't include iLife. It's also far more fragile than OS X, and an average user could probably screw it up in just a few minutes.

Offering this for free probably isn't a good idea, especially when OS X Server isn't supported under Applecare - the pro support is insanely expensive and getting support off the web is difficult, not least because most support articles date back to older versions.

I love OS X Server, but it's not something that should be used on any machine other than a full on server.

100% correct. The average user couldn't even use OS X Server which is why this whole free copy is so weird. It is absolutely not for a user machine it is for a dedicated stand alone server running 24/7, nothing else.
 
OK I looked at the above URL. Tthe question remains. "What in "Server" is not available for free on the Internet." Every service included if you read between the lines on the Aple site you can see which package thev'e included. Seems to me what you are paying for is for Apple to have done the leg work to bundle this up and put it on a DVD.

You look at the management application and related utilities they provide as part of the OS? Have you ever tried setting up such services? Mac OS X Server makes it really easy to setup and maintain.

It is a great solution for SMB.
 
I just hope that they include iLife or iWork as a standard to OS 10.5 I would still buy them if they were separate but it would be nice to have them as a bonus to purchasing Leopard.

Or whatever... I am sure this was a typo on the webmasters part.
 
I think you are asking for too much. My MacBook Pro came with iLife 06 pre-installed just as my friends' MacBooks, but iWork. No... I doubt Apple will bundle iWork in leopard, but we sure can hope so.
 
Far East and Pacific Apple sites

New-Zealand store does not offer OSX Server with the Mac Pro.
French and Spanish stores OSX Server is free. Probably most other are offering it free as well.

As I checked earlier, the far eastern sites namely HK Singapore, Pacific Australia and NZ do not even offer any software choice, either Tiger or Server.
Clearly none of the site programmers are looking at this site!!!:D :rolleyes:
 
... It's also far more fragile than OS X, and an average user could probably screw it up in just a few minutes.

What exactly is the difference that makes this true?

it seems like since regular OS X already has database and webserver and file server capabilities etc, why not just build on top of that?
 
OS X Server ...... It's also far more fragile than OS X, and an average user could probably screw it up in just a few minutes.

The nature of the server version is that it has to be more robust, not more fragile.
If an install is not properly done, then problems will arise.
Installation of servers should be done by experienced users or server experts, it stands to reason??
 
100% correct. The average user couldn't even use OS X Server which is why this whole free copy is so weird. It is absolutely not for a user machine it is for a dedicated stand alone server running 24/7, nothing else.

I suppose you never used NEXTSTEP/Openstep, correct?

Why do I ask?

Client and Server were ONE PRODUCT.
 
Okay

Let's say every iBook, iPhone or Mac has a feature like combined Leopard and OSX Server and ARD.

Let's further say whatever implementation is required is possible including different partitions and logins. Layered logins.

Let's further say this device has full broadband internet acess wirelessly vis ATT Edge 1.0 (2.5G wireless), wifi a,b,g,n, wimax .16, and maybe s for OMPC.

This device can now do end user tasks, limited webserver tasks with load-off to co-lo. It is with you.

Hmmm.

Top 20 functions lists . . .

Rocketman
 
What exactly is the difference that makes this true?

it seems like since regular OS X already has database and webserver and file server capabilities etc, why not just build on top of that?
For example, changing the IP address of a machine running OS X Server screws up things like Open Directory. There's quite a detailed, command line, set of instructions that have to be followed in order to keep all of the services on the machine functional. There are also security implications if the user does not correctly configure and maintain the system, given the extra services that are running/can be run. As you say, standard OS X already has plenty of 'advanced' features suitable for anybody who isn't running a full on server - my message is don't get OS X Server just because it's free!

The nature of the server version is that it has to be more robust, not more fragile.
If an install is not properly done, then problems will arise.
Installation of servers should be done by experienced users or server experts, it stands to reason??
It's robust when it's correctly configured and then left to do its job. It's fragile in a sense that if you configure it incorrectly it is unforgiving - it's much less foolproof than standard OS X and there's a void of good documentation for a lot of tasks.

Installation and maintenance of servers should indeed be done by experienced persons, but having OS X Server available for free means that any old sod is quite possibly going to select it regardless of whether they need it or not.

I think we could end up with a glut of users who are trapped without software support and wonder why the hell they spec'd a server operating system for their desktop.

I'll say it again - I love OS X Server, it's fab, but it needs a premium pricetag to keep it from ending up on consumer machines.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.