Mac OS X Server Free with Mac Pro?

[bigandy]

That's not strictly true. If you look at the purchasing power of the pound sterling, you see that it is nearly 15% stronger than the dollar. You're also not taking into account taxes. The UK prices are really:

Mac Pro: £1445.96 ($2841 USD) vs. $2499 [13.5% markup]
MacBook Pro: £1148.09 ($2256 USD) vs. $1999 [13% markup]
etc.

Taking into consideration the weakness of the dollar, the UK prices aren't much higher at all, especially since the actual costs of conducting business abroad are also higher, so some markup is to be expected. However, with a stronger dollar, you'd see extremely similar prices to the US retail price (before VAT). A ten cent reduction in the exchange rate cuts the US-equivalent price down to $2700, which is in line with what you'd expect. Here in the US, we pay through the nose for UK products as well. Pricing of American products abroad is the one downside to a weak dollar from your perspective.

The UK's tax policies are not Apple's fault (nor any other US-based retailer who does business in the UK), nor should Apple be expected to lower prices to compensate for your higher tax rate. You also can't necessarily expect a company to revise prices daily to keep up with exchange rates.

While the prices of Apple products in the UK aren't that much higher than the US, you can't just avoid adding VAT to the prices when comparing, as not all of the United States pay tax on sales, do they?

And for all your good points about the strong pound, and the relatively weak dollar, how does that explain that the Adobe CS3 Master Suite is double the price here, unless you buy the Academic version - which is $80 cheaper in the UK than the US?

It's corporation greed, that's what it is.

And I've still not had sufficient proof to convince me otherwise. Tax & currency don't quite cut it when the prices are just *that* different.

 

[JeffDM]

It's corporation greed, that's what it is.

And I've still not had sufficient proof to convince me otherwise. Tax & currency don't quite cut it when the prices are just *that* different.

No, that doesn't cover everything. Is there a local branch of Adobe that has to distribute and promote the product? Are the advertising expenses a lot higher? Do they have a lot of employees? What are the differences in the cost of employment? What are the customs fees/import taxes? What are the taxes on employees that are hidden from the employees? What are the costs of the additional regulatory burdens placed on businesses and employers? The US has a few taxes on employees that the employees don't see.

I can imagine that European countries have more to cover the costs of their much more robust social programs and their higher standards on businesses, but there are side-effects.

 

[Evangelion]

Taking into consideration the weakness of the dollar, the UK prices aren't much higher at all

Um, if dollers gets weaker when compared to Pound, then the price of Apple-hardware should go down in the UK. Apple is an American compnay that bills their good in dollars. If one pound goes up in value when compared to the dollar, then goods that are billed in dollars should get cheaper for people in UK.

An example: Finland uses Euros, Estonia uses Crowns. Suppose one Euro buys you 10 Crowns, and some product costs 200 Crowns in Estonia. If I went to Estonia and bought the product there, it would cost 200 / 10 = 20 euros. Now, suppose that value of Crown goes down when compared to Euro. Now one Euro gets you 15 Crowns. That product would still cost 200 Crowns, in Euros it would cost me 200 / 15 = 13.3 euros.

However, with a stronger dollar, you'd see extremely similar prices to the US retail price (before VAT).

You have it completely opposite. Stronger dollar (when compared to Sterling and Euro) would mean that products that are billed in dollars would get more expensive in Europe. Weaker dollar would mean that the product should cost less.

 

[JeffDM]

Off topic, but this reminds me of something on the news I saw yesterday where a new tax law in Illinois I think would make small businesses who have $3,000,000 and $200,000 in profit would go from paying something like $20,000 in taxes to something like $56,000 in taxes. People say these companies will go bankrupt. I'll admit, I don't really know anything about economics, but why will they go bankrupt? Last time I checked $200,000 in PROFITS > $56,000

They might not go bankrupt, but if a business is taxed too heavily, then that reduces the incentive to invest more into the business. If hiring ten more people to expand the business means that you go over that line, then it's easier to avoid that. Also, if the return is too low, there is a greater risk that owner might decide to do something else with his time or invest in a different state.

 

[bigandy]

No, that doesn't cover everything. Is there a local branch of Adobe that has to distribute and promote the product? Are the advertising expenses a lot higher? Do they have a lot of employees? What are the differences in the cost of employment? What are the customs fees/import taxes? What are the taxes on employees that are hidden from the employees? What are the costs of the additional regulatory burdens placed on businesses and employers? The US has a few taxes on employees that the employees don't see.

I can imagine that European countries have more to cover the costs of their much more robust social programs and their higher standards on businesses, but there are side-effects.

no-bloody-where near enough to double the price of Adobe products.

see my original example - Retail Master Suite double US price. Academic Master Suite cheaper than US.

there's a large amount of stuff that's just *waaay* more expensive here, but there's also a bit that's the same price. why is that? how can one company get away with selling something the same price either side of the pond, while another doesn't...?

it just doesn't add up. sorry.

 

[JeffDM]

no-bloody-where near enough to double the price of Adobe products.

see my original example - Retail Master Suite double US price. Academic Master Suite cheaper than US.

I know the prices are a lot higher for Adobe, I wasn't contesting that. You didn't need to repeat yourself.

there's a large amount of stuff that's just *waaay* more expensive here, but there's also a bit that's the same price. why is that? how can one company get away with selling something the same price either side of the pond, while another doesn't...?

What do you have that is the same price as what is in the US? Is it in a comparable industry?

 

[johnee]

well at the prices of the pro systems, it's nice they throw in a little extra

 

[EagerDragon]

They should offer a free or highly discounted server version with 5 licenses for home use.

See, if the general public knows how to use OSX server, then there is no knowledge vacumn when moving to the unlimited later.

I would rather all Mac's came with a 5 license server. A lot of us has 2 to 4 Mac's, plus Airport Base stations, plus Apple TV, etc.

Also the server version would be great training for everyone on how to set up file sharing, web servers, application servers, mail servers, etc......

 

[oogje]

According to Apple's Q1 2007 Unaudited Summary Data sheet, Q1 2007 Revenue for the Americas was $3,498,000,000 for 625,000 CPU units. Revenue for Europe was $1,242,000,000 for 491,000 CPU units.

Granted, I don't know what these number "really" represent, but on the surface it would seem the European prices are not translating to greater revenue as one might think if Apple was just being greedy.

 

[brianus]

* Note that the "10-client" version is only referring to the number of concurrent AppleShare (AFP) users that may be connected at once. There's no limit on simultaneous SMB (Windows sharing), NFS, ssh, mail, web, etc connections. Frankly, I'm not sure why they even bother to differentiate between 10-client and unlimited for AFP anymore.

Whoa, really? That's the only difference? I wish that were explained more clearly in Apple's promotional materials. And here I thought it was basically crippled if you were gonna run a web or mail server..

 

[matthew24]

They should offer a free or highly discounted server version with 5 licenses for home use.

See, if the general public knows how to use OSX server, then there is no knowledge vacumn when moving to the unlimited later.

I would rather all Mac's came with a 5 license server. A lot of us has 2 to 4 Mac's, plus Airport Base stations, plus Apple TV, etc.

Also the server version would be great training for everyone on how to set up file sharing, web servers, application servers, mail servers, etc......

Great post, thanks. I am considering OS X server, could use it mightily for my career, at the moment the price is just too steep.

 

[macnews]

Would be nice if this was true & US customers got the same deal. I work in an elementary school district and only use Macs. This can help save us money. While we already get a discount for this for being aschool, it's not that much of a discount.

I kinda like Mac OS X Server. Makes administering users and stuff like that easier. However, Remote Desktop is a little too "Big Brother"-ish for me.

I also work in education and Remote Desktop is a God send! Yes, it is "Big Brother" - ish, however, as some one else pointed out if you are big brother then you can control HOW that power is used. And trust me, it is nice to be able to use it in order to do things like solve people's computer problems w/o having to run across campus. Sure, I could spy on them but I choose not to.

Examples where ARD (Apple Remote Desktop) has saved me a ton of time:
- I get a call at 6pm (I'm at home with my family). The user is having problems with their client machine. I log in, find out it is user error and problem is fixed in 2 minutes. A 2 minute problem fixed w/o me driving the 10 minutes to school, one way.

- a new staff member wasn't set up correctly and doesn't have access to all the share points. I'm at home taking care of sick kids. I log in to the server via ARD and give her access. I look good, she is happy.

- a string of meetings keeps me busy all morning. I just sit down at my desk when I get a call someone a few buildings away can't print. I ARD in to their computer only to find out they don't have the right printer selected. I "fix" it in seconds. They are happy and I didn't have to leave my office.

The last example, or some various form of it happens the most frequently. It isn't always user error but it is very nice to troubleshoot from my desk w/o having to traverse buildings fixing 1-5 minute problems.

Oh, did I mention my job isn't actually doing mac repairs? No, I just help out because it doesn't take many people to maintain the mac os. Also, ARD isn't a tied in to OSX server. I use ARD on my laptop and most often fix client machines. It is nice to use with the server, don't get me wrong, but it is not tied in to server.

 

[JeffDM]

To add to that, I don't know if ARD can do it, but VNC can be set such that it requires the user to click a warning window to accept an incoming connection, so they can clean up their "act" before allowing the admin to control the computer. With that setting, there's no way for the admin to "spy" on the desktop without the user having accepted it.

 

[oogje]

Just to avoid any confusion...

A VNC server is built into Mac OS X (client and server). It's activated under System Preferences in the Sharing pane under Apple Remote Desktop. You can connect remotely with a free VNC client such as Chicken of the VNC.

Apple Remote Desktop is a separately purchased product, distinct from Mac OS X Server. US prices are $299 (10 Managed Systems) or $499 (Unlimited Managed Systems).

 

[EagerDragon]

Great post, thanks. I am considering OS X server, could use it mightily for my career, at the moment the price is just too steep.

Great for training, should get a few less latte's and save to get it.
If it was n ot for my first personnal computer, I would not have gotten to my current salary and I would probably would have been in the unemployent line a few times.

Invest into the future, btw you can run server in a mini, you don't need a $4000 machine to learn it.

 

[gnasher729]

You're forgetting the R&D work and paying the coders and advertising that went into Server.

No. If I had no intent of ever buying Server, and I order it because it is free (possibly by mistake), take the box and put it on my shelf and never ever use it, the only cost to Apple is the cost of making that box.

 

[HawaiiMacAddict]

Aloha everyone,

I have a question about Tiger Server. Currently I have a Core Duo iMac and a Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro. Assuming I get to add a Mac Pro to the mix, running either Tiger or Leopard Server, can I use the Mac Pro to download updates for all three Macs (kind of like WSUS on the Windows side) and just have the iMac and the MacBook Pro connect to the Mac Pro to download their respective updates? I'm assuming that because one is a Core Duo and the other a Core 2 Duo that not all patches would apply to both computers.

I would love, first off, to get a Mac Pro If I were to get one, I would really like to get OS X Server put on top of it (it will most likely be Leopard, or its successor, before I get the OK from the wife to buy a Mac Pro anyway), as I would really like to see how it compares with Windows Server 2003. I've never seen Open Directory at work - I don't mean "at work", but rather working on a computer - actually, that's the one thing you won't see at your typical Apple Store, and I think that's one thing Apple can do to combat the "not for the enterprise" image.

Imagine if someone's child, someone who just happens to be a corporate purchaser, wants to purchase a Mac. Now imagine they visit an Apple Store, and this someone sees a Mac Pro running OS X Server, and sees how well it runs Open Directory. Then imagine this someone compares the price of OS X Server to that of, say, Windows Server 2003. I think, and balance this with the fact that I'm just a bit biased , but Apple could start realizing an upsurge in consideration for the enterprise market, if not outright Server purchases.

After all, the question is now: there exists now one computing platform on which all known OSs can be run, so why buy a PC?

HawaiiMacAddict

 

[Peace]

Aloha everyone,

I have a question about Tiger Server. Currently I have a Core Duo iMac and a Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro. Assuming I get to add a Mac Pro to the mix, running either Tiger or Leopard Server, can I use the Mac Pro to download updates for all three Macs (kind of like WSUS on the Windows side) and just have the iMac and the MacBook Pro connect to the Mac Pro to download their respective updates? I'm assuming that because one is a Core Duo and the other a Core 2 Duo that not all patches would apply to both computers.

I would love, first off, to get a Mac Pro If I were to get one, I would really like to get OS X Server put on top of it (it will most likely be Leopard, or its successor, before I get the OK from the wife to buy a Mac Pro anyway), as I would really like to see how it compares with Windows Server 2003. I've never seen Open Directory at work - I don't mean "at work", but rather working on a computer - actually, that's the one thing you won't see at your typical Apple Store, and I think that's one thing Apple can do to combat the "not for the enterprise" image.

Imagine if someone's child, someone who just happens to be a corporate purchaser, wants to purchase a Mac. Now imagine they visit an Apple Store, and this someone sees a Mac Pro running OS X Server, and sees how well it runs Open Directory. Then imagine this someone compares the price of OS X Server to that of, say, Windows Server 2003. I think, and balance this with the fact that I'm just a bit biased , but Apple could start realizing an upsurge in consideration for the enterprise market, if not outright Server purchases.

After all, the question is now: there exists now one computing platform on which all known OSs can be run, so why buy a PC?

HawaiiMacAddict

you can use OS X Server for updates for all your Macs.

I would study up on Server before opening it up to the internet though.

 

[dartzorichalcos]

Hey guys and girls, I been thinking of trying out Mac OS X Server on my mac but I want to know what the benefits are of the Server Edition? Is it really much better than the Non-Server Edition?

 

[Rocketman]

It is my understanding OSX enduser has 90% of the capabilities of server using basic unix tools but that server adds a fancy GUI and some Apple specific admin tools.

But there are sites that detail methods (formatted for geeks, not real people) on how to configure existing and freely downloadable stuff to duplicate "most" of the services.

What is needed is a simplified "how-to" for the typical Apple user to reconfigure their low-end intel macs running OSX to do "advanced" things.

Rocketman

 

[dartzorichalcos]

So the Server Edition is nothing that special except it has admin tools, good back-up system and use it to update other macs. I would rather use that money on Leopard and ram or hard drive upgrades.

 

[oogje]

So the Server Edition is nothing that special except it has admin tools, good back-up system and use it to update other macs. I would rather use that money on Leopard and ram or hard drive upgrades.

I don't know of any back-up system that comes with Mac OS X Server that doesn't come with regular Mac OS X.

 

[dartzorichalcos]

I don't know of any back-up system that comes with Mac OS X Server that doesn't come with regular Mac OS X.

Well I heard that somewhere but I am not sure if that is really true or not.

 

[Object-X]

Not sure what level developer you are but Select and Premier members get OS X Server for free.

Select and Premier members also get a $500 discount off of a Mac Pro purchase, so essentially you get OS X Server for free anyway.

 

[mustang_dvs]

Select and Premier members also get a $500 discount off of a Mac Pro purchase, so essentially you get OS X Server for free anyway.

Yes, but Select is $500 and Premiere is $2,500 -- so, unless you're going to actually be using the additional resources that come with membership, there's no monetary savings.