Mac Pro To Continue Quad-Core Tradition? Woodcrest?

[mcnaugha]

A desktop Mac might not be a "mini tower"

Apple may go for the more modern HTPC form factor for a desktop platform based "Mac" with Core 2 Duo processor. Intel are really pushing the Viiv Digital Home platform. Apple essentially ignited the Digital Home thing. Seems only right.

Remember those rumors about the Apple Plasma TV with a Mac built-in? Imagine a 30th Anniversary Mac was a Sony X-series (1080p) Bravia LCD TV with a built-in Viiv Mac. Digital Home heaven.

 

[madoka]

IIn this case, single conroe is likely the only way they can come close to $1999.

A Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.40GHz/4M) is going to cost $316.

Add (just my ballpark estimates):

$80 Harddrive (300gb)
$100 Motherboard
$30 DVD burner
$80 RAM (1gig)
$100 Case/Power/Fans
$50 whatever cheap video card they'll put inside

So for about $750 (and that's being generous as their component prices are probably much lower), they'll be able to make this machine. Add in a huge markup and this looks like a $1300 machine.

What kind of specs are people expecting in a $2000 machine?

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I've been pretty impressed with the Intel transition so far, Apple has done some nice work on the MacBook, MacBook Pro and Mac Mini product lines however I am still interested in what will be in the Intel PowerMac line.

Personally I don't really think Apple will put off the Intel revamp of the PowerMacs too much longer because the rest of the Apple range has and Intel processor in it. I think we will see the newest dual core offering from Intel to wet the apetite while 2007 will see a nice mix of dual core and quad core.

Fingers crossed for Woodcrest

That's my $USD00.02

Still can't wait to see the Intel PowerMacs

 

[Core Trio]

Until last night, I hadnt seen the G5 case in person since the semester ended. But yesterday when i went into the studio to track vocals for my bands new cd I took a long hard look at the Dual 2.3 we record on, and I realized how great the G5 design is. If the intel chips are anywhere as hot as the G5's, i see no need for a redesign at all. its already a beautiful (and functional) case.

 

[AidenShaw]

The new Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box should have integrated graphics

$50 whatever cheap video card they'll put inside

The base system should have the "G" version of the chipset with integrated graphics, plus a PCIe x16 slot with the power harness.

If you don't need anything more than the GMA, you don't have to pay for it.

If you want more, any single card graphics is an option.

This helps keep the entry price low, but you can BTO or get a higher model with better graphics.

 

[AidenShaw]

I took a long hard look at the Dual 2.3 we record on, and I realized how great the G5 design is. If the intel chips are anywhere as hot as the G5's, i see no need for a redesign at all. its already a beautiful (and functional) case.

How many external disks are on that rig?

Wouldn't the case be more beautiful and functional if the disks could fit *inside* it?

 

[brianus]

How many external disks are on that rig?

Wouldn't the case be more beautiful and functional if the disks could fit *inside* it?

I know they'd never do it, but I would love to see them include a couple slots for XServe/XServe RAID-compatible Apple Drive Modules on the redesigned case.

Maybe they could satisfy the "form over function" people by hiding the space for removable components behind hinged G5-like grille?

 

[milo]

A Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.40GHz/4M) is going to cost $316.

Add (just my ballpark estimates):

$80 Harddrive (300gb)
$100 Motherboard
$30 DVD burner
$80 RAM (1gig)
$100 Case/Power/Fans
$50 whatever cheap video card they'll put inside

Exactly why Apple should use conroe on the low end, whether that's a different form factor or just a base model. With a single woodcrest, prices go up on the cpu, the mobo, and the memory. I'd be fine with not seeing a mini tower...as long as the cheapest tower dropped in price by several hundred dollars. It would be great to see $1499 again, but I think they can easily build one even cheaper.

 

[~Shard~]

My eyes are fine and I think MacBook is one of the biggest redesigns in mobile history. Just because it's the same color doesn't make it the same in any other way which it isn't.

Alrighty, fair enough then!

 

[DavidCar]

Conroe delayed until September?

I found an interesting article, and noted two things:

Conroe may be delayed until September. If so, what does that mean for Meron?

Hyperthreading has apparently been implemented, but is presently disabled. They speculate it could be enabled in a later high Mhz version of the chip. So if we think Woodcrest, Conroe and Meron use the same essential core under the hood, with different variations for each, that may mean hyperthreading is implemented in all of them, but is presently disabled. My understanding is that hyperthreading would increase overall performance, but cause the chips to run hotter and decrease performance per watt.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/914/1/page_1_benchmarking_intel_conroe_core_2/index.html

Has anyone seen a diagram for the Conroe with chipset, like the diagrams we've seen for Woodcrest platforms? I've not come across one yet.

 

[mcnaugha]

Is this true or mistaken journalist?

I found an interesting article, and noted two things:

Conroe may be delayed until September. If so, what does that mean for Meron?

Hyperthreading has apparently been implemented, but is presently disabled. They speculate it could be enabled in a later high Mhz version of the chip. So if we think Woodcrest, Conroe and Meron use the same essential core under the hood, with different variations for each, that may mean hyperthreading is implemented in all of them, but is presently disabled. My understanding is that hyperthreading would increase overall performance, but cause the chips to run hotter and decrease performance per watt.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/914/1/page_1_benchmarking_intel_conroe_core_2/index.html

Has anyone seen a diagram for the Conroe with chipset, like the diagrams we've seen for Woodcrest platforms? I've not come across one yet.

Surely this would kill Intel to delay Conroe until September!?! They've geared everything towards the 7/23/2006 launch date.

Could the author have mistaken the launch period for Merom with Conroe?

AMD just declared they're answering Intel's price war. I'm not too happy given I just paid full price for the Pentium D 960. I will need to sell it on now and quickly before it depreciates too much.

 

[DavidCar]

Surely this would kill Intel to delay Conroe until September!?! They've geared everything towards the 7/23/2006 launch date.

Could the author have mistaken the launch period for Merom with Conroe?

AMD just declared they're answering Intel's price war. I'm not too happy given I just paid full price for the Pentium D 960. I will need to sell it on now and quickly before it depreciates too much.

This is a rumors site, right? Looks like the delay until September was a genuine rumor with bad information.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/06/10/conroe_not_late/

 

[~Shard~]

This is a rumors site, right? Looks like the delay until September was a genuine rumor with bad information.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/06/10/conroe_not_late/

If this is the case, then maybe Jobs will annoucne the new Conroe/Woodcrest Intel PowerMacs at WWDC, but they'll have shipping dates of a few months out on them.

 

[bigpics]

Convergence

Alrighty, fair enough then!

Well -- I guess we can all rejoice, get in a drum circle, or hold hands and sing "Kumbiyah" on this one.

How often does that happen in a Mac Forum?? What's next? World peace??

 

[AidenShaw]

I know they'd never do it, but I would love to see them include a couple slots for XServe/XServe RAID-compatible Apple Drive Modules on the redesigned case.

Maybe they could satisfy the "form over function" people by hiding the space for removable components behind hinged G5-like grille?

Here's a chassis that takes a dual Woody motherboard:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/4U/745/SC745TQ-700.cfm

2. 8 x 1" SAS/SATA Hot-swappable Drive Bays
3. 3x 5.25" Optical/Peripheral Drive Bays
4. 7x Full-height, Full-length PCIe/PCI-X expansion slots

And it's almost exactly the same size as the PMG5 ! Surely Apple could do better than 2 disks and one optical in a case that size.

I know there will now be a chorus of sheep bleating "but it's fugly". That's why brianus' suggestion of a door makes sense. It just needs a pretty Apple shell around all that goodness inside.

Or is "form over function" really the major thing?

Or, if the new ProMac mobo is a standard size, you could put the ProMac board in the SuperMicro case and use the aluminum case for some other purpose.

 

[MacinDoc]

If this is the case, then maybe Jobs will annoucne the new Conroe/Woodcrest Intel PowerMacs at WWDC, but they'll have shipping dates of a few months out on them.

Of course, when you highlight a word by making it bold and italic, it's preferable to not have a typo in it...

 

[bigpics]

I like what you wrote in your post. It got me to thinking - what would stop Apple from doing two completely separate lines of desktop/towers?

By splitting the line-up into separate Professional/Consumer areas, it would differentiate the Professional line and allow Apple to compete with other vendors in the high-end market. Apple already has a "Pro" section on their website. Why not feature all of the Pro computers to go along with their Pro apps?

If they go with an all pro-line, then we might see 3 new machines with prices of $2500, $4000 and up to $6000 for the top-end G5 Quad killer.

The more I think about it, I believe that if Apple were to create a NEW "Professional" division, like they did with the iPod-iTunes, then that would allow for specific development (and better relations with vendors) and less over-all confusion in their computer line-up.

Actually in broad outline (and note to others, the above quote is an excerpt of your post) that's pretty close to my guesstimation.

'Cept I think the divisions might be more MacPro and MacUltra (or something), with the pro range accomodating fan boys to photographers/videographers and users in industries where Mac is already strong, i.e. a mix of users who both ARE pros and those "prosumers" who just want and/or need to own something with "pro horsepower" (and "pro" badging) for the MP line ($2-4.5K or so) and the "ultras" a workstation class of machine that the most demanding Pixar animator or genetics researcher would be happy to park in front of (say $5-8K to start and "sky's the limit" in future revs if the line takes off.

That DOES leaves room for what others are calling a pizza box or minitower that would cost approximately what an iMac does but without a monitor, and more user customizeable than an iMac, but I'd be surprised to see this given the trends in notebook v desktop sales. And would expect an upward broadening of the iMac line in its next rev to be more likely than a downward expansion of the traditional desktop form factor -- e.g., a 23" iMac with maybe an extra bay (the bigger screen would leave room), and other ways for say the top two iMacs to expand via cards, more ports, etc.

Not to mention a black one (or some new insanely high margin hook) to grab a few bucks from the self-esteem challenged...

And that would leave few gaps in computing capability across what's becoming a very impressive line of binary wonders....

 

[~Shard~]

Of course, when you highlight a word by making it bold and italic, it's preferable to not have a typo in it...

Dammit! That's what I get for using stupid crappy IE on my stupid crappy PC at work. I'm so used to Safari's spell check feature...

Thanks for going out of your way to point that out though - being a bastard myself, I appreciate the gesture.

 

[THX1139]

I know plenty of people who have purchased the $1999 base machine. Many of whom are students and need a desktop for editing/graphics, whatever.

The reason they buy the base system is because they can't afford the next one in line. They want the best for what they can afford but there is only three choices in the towers. What I was proposing is splitting the line-up and offering a lower cost solution with a mid-sized tower and Conroe. Something for around $1500-$1800 that is directed at the serious amatuer or small office. Which computer do you think a student would buy now? I say, less aluminum and more power!

I still don't think the "pizza box" is going to happen right away. I'd like to be wrong though.

Also, THX1139, isn't every Apple computer sort of a "media center" with the addition of Front Row? Why would Apple need to make another computer for that reason?

How about so they can stack it into all the rest of their components; or so it will fit into their stereo case along with the rest of the electronic toys? Or maybe so the user can custom install it into the wall? Try doing any of that with an iMac! iMacs are great...but they try to do to much by catering to other segments of the market. An Apple media center would interface with all electronic components as well as the internet. You would control it all via remote menu that is viewable on your "soon-to-be-released" 64 inch Apple design Plasma screen TV.

 

[it5five]

I sort of get what you're saying now with the media center. Sort of box-ish like the mini, but designed better to fit in with other "home theatre" components.

That'd be kinda cool, but I couldn't imagine Apple pulling that one off.

Oh believe me, if this mini-tower ends up happening, I'm going to be buying one of them. But I still think they are going to keep their line-up simple, then wait until the intel transition has settled before introducing a new computer. If it were to happen, I could see it happening some time early '07.

 

[~Shard~]

That'd be kinda cool, but I couldn't imagine Apple pulling that one off.

Never underestimate the power of Apple. (Or at least the power of Steve's RDF...)

 

[AidenShaw]

Never underestimate the power of Apple. (Or at least the power of Steve's RDF...)

Look here for a number of HTPC systems for sale:

http://www.intel.com/buy/viiv.htm?iid=viiv_whereToBuy

for example

 

[it5five]

I know they could pull it off. I wrote that wrong. What I meant was that I couldn't see them devoting too much time and effort into it at this point.

 

[AidenShaw]

I know they could pull it off. I wrote that wrong. What I meant was that I couldn't see them devoting too much time and effort into it at this point.

You don't think that Apple believes in the Digital Hub?

Microsoft certainly does - visit some friend who has Windows Media Centre Edition and a couple of Xbox 360s as Media Centre Extenders. That's the only way that you'll realize how far behind Apple is in the digital home experience.

 

[it5five]

I wasn't saying that either. I'm saying right now since they are finishing the transition to intel, they will probably wait a couple months before introducing an entire new design/concept.