Mac Shipments Down in Q1 2019 Amid Worldwide PC Decline

[Baymowe335]

lmao! Most objective. Would love to see a post or 2 where you spoke negatively of something Apple has done.

See the posts around the FaceTime bug, China lack of execution most recently, and some of my comments on Apple’s strategy decisions in multiple markets.

I’m not going to be negative on a guesstimate number from Gartner in a declining market, on a small part of Apple’s business, and where Apple did better than average.

 

[Blaze4G]

See the posts around the FaceTime bug, China lack of execution most recently, and some of my comments on Apple’s strategy decisions in multiple markets.

I’m not going to be negative on a guesstimate number from Gartner in a declining market, on a small part of Apple’s business, and where Apple did better than average.

I meant in regards to one of their products itself. A known bug is not being critical of the product. I want to see the objectivity you present yourself to have. Unless you think all Apple products are perfect...if so, I know all I need to know about your objectivity.

 

[nouveau_redneck]

1. No Touch Bar
2. Reliable Keyboard
3. Good Genius Bar service, not out-sourced service
4. A reasonable price.

I'm hunting for a new laptop for my wife. She had a very old MBP. She wanted to buy a new one. After I told her these issues, MBP/MB/MBA isn't in our list any more.

You are denying her a great machine by your overly critical assessment. She should consult elsewhere for more balanced information.

 

[Baymowe335]

I meant in regards to one of their products itself. A known bug is not being critical of the product. I want to see the objectivity you present yourself to have. Unless you think all Apple products are perfect...if so, I know all I need to know about your objectivity.

The products are great, but the numbers tell you that. My opinion on the products is irrelevant. The market decides who has good products and that speaks for itself with Apple.

 

[Blaze4G]

The products are great, but the numbers tell you that. My opinion on the products is irrelevant. The market decides who has good products and that speaks for itself with Apple.

Okay so you cant show me one example of you being critical of Apple products after being a member here for 1.5 years. So much for objectivity. Proved my point, thanks.

 

[Baymowe335]

Okay so you cant show me one example of you being critical of Apple products after being a member here for 1.5 years. So much for objectivity. Proved my point, thanks.

You’re missing the point, but it matters not. The facts are the facts.

 

[LordVic]

Okay so you cant show me one example of you being critical of Apple products after being a member here for 1.5 years. So much for objectivity. Proved my point, thanks.

The member you are discussing this with ha a long history of not actually talking about the quality of the products and is an investor, so has only cared that profit comes.

it's a mistake, because believing that today's profits = Product quality = Tomorrows profits is a fools errand that has led to many companies missing trends and downturns due to their own hubris.

nevermind, that as consumers, someone buying a laptop, I don't care if Apple is making $10 profit, or a billion profit. I just care that the product I'm buying today meets my needs. Because if it's not going to, I'm not buying something tomorrow.

this is a massive issue that needs to be looked at. Mac's profits have stayed up due to increased prices. Despite declining sales. This might look good as a today investor, But declining unit sales in a mature market where there's a ceiling to the price means that there's an even greater potential that those who hold their noses today to buy at current prices, may not do the same after experiencing today's lackluster products.

being only critical of the money side, while ingoring the products themselves is foolish and what many people in this thread argue Tim Cook does. The question is how will it affect the 5year, or 10 year outlook if volumes continue to decrease due to less than stellar products today.

There's also the foolish idea that profits = quality. This is fundamentally untrue. Popularity and profit is not indicative of product quality. Prime example, Backstreet boys

having some lackluster products isn't going to suddenly make 200 million people stop buying tomorrow. You're not going to see a sudden 100% drop off of customers. what you will see is a few hundred here, a few thousand there. Another hundred over there, and maybe another dozen thousand for the next thing. But eventually, you do that long enough and you've diminished your potential sale base. This is called burning your goodwill of tomorrow for profits today, and is an absolute foolish short term business model that is generally only employed when you want to appease short term investors to pump up the value of your stock.

ANYONE who claims to be an investor and doesn't understand how goodwill can be burned like this is a terrible investor who you should be ignoring.

 

[Blaze4G]

You’re missing the point, but it matters not. The facts are the facts.

it is. That you're not objective. Thanks.
[doublepost=1555092193][/doublepost]

The member you are discussing this with ha a long history of not actually talking about the quality of the products and is an investor, so has only cared that profit comes.

it's a mistake, because believing that today's profits = Product quality = Tomorrows profits is a fools errand that has led to many companies missing trends and downturns due to their own hubris.

nevermind, that as consumers, someone buying a laptop, I don't care if Apple is making $10 profit, or a billion profit. I just care that the product I'm buying today meets my needs. Because if it's not going to, I'm not buying something tomorrow.

this is a massive issue that needs to be looked at. Mac's profits have stayed up due to increased prices. Despite declining sales. This might look good as a today investor, But declining unit sales in a mature market where there's a ceiling to the price means that there's an even greater potential that those who hold their noses today to buy at current prices, may not do the same after experiencing today's lackluster products.

being only critical of the money side, while ingoring the products themselves is foolish and what many people in this thread argue Tim Cook does. The question is how will it affect the 5year, or 10 year outlook if volumes continue to decrease due to less than stellar products today.

There's also the foolish idea that profits = quality. This is fundamentally untrue. Popularity and profit is not indicative of product quality. Prime example, Backstreet boys

having some lackluster products isn't going to suddenly make 200 million people stop buying tomorrow. You're not going to see a sudden 100% drop off of customers. what you will see is a few hundred here, a few thousand there. Another hundred over there, and maybe another dozen thousand for the next thing. But eventually, you do that long enough and you've diminished your potential sale base. This is called burning your goodwill of tomorrow for profits today, and is an absolute foolish short term business model that is generally only employed when you want to appease short term investors to pump up the value of your stock.

ANYONE who claims to be an investor and doesn't understand how goodwill can be burned like this is a terrible investor who you should be ignoring.

100% with everything you said. History has repeated itself over and over...we will see if Apple follows the same path. they are currently on track doing just so.

 

[Baymowe335]

it is. That you're not objective. Thanks.
[doublepost=1555092193][/doublepost]
100% with everything you said. History has repeated itself over and over...we will see if Apple follows the same path. they are currently on track doing just so.

I don't need anything else besides facts. Hate on.

 

[cubbie5150]

....

 

[antonrg]

Be careful what you wish for. You never know what a redesigned iMac might be like.

Based off of some of Apple's other recent Macs, the iMac could be dramatically changed, and not for the better imo.

Glued and soldiered everything for a better, more « seamless » experience

 

[skycorgan]

The drop Apple experienced total shipments by percentage was lower than the market as a whole. Additionally, their percentage is more impacted by lower volume numbers overall. Since Apple only sells computers in the $1K+ market, it is no surprise their total volume of sales is substantially lower than a Dell or HP who sell as varied price points as low as $200 in some cases.

It’s important to look at the total context of the numbers, not just a decline itself.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple isn’t intending to discontinue Macs for “iToys”.

I'm sure at some point, someone typed something similar to "Apple isn’t intending to discontinue Apple ]['s for those 'Macintosh' toys."

What I’m saying is that it’s happened before and it will happen again. Things fall out of importance and only those that don’t examine history are surprised, shocked and disappointed as/when it happens.

 

[Abazigal]

There's also the foolish idea that profits = quality. This is fundamentally untrue. Popularity and profit is not indicative of product quality. Prime example, Backstreet boys

People keep citing this example, and personally, I have to disagree.

That backstreet boys had tons of fans in their heyday (and that they still have fans today) goes to show that they have quality in areas which you might not particularly care about, but it's quality in the right areas which matter to the right people nonetheless.

There's more to liking an artiste than singing ability alone. Maybe someone likes Pussycat Dolls or Spice Girls or some Kpop girl group because of their catchy tunes or sex appeal or skimpy clothing, even if the lyrics themselves are crap and the singing ability lacklustre, and that's perfectly okay. The success of a performer is contingent on a combination of a multitude of factors, and raw singing ability alone does not make or break them.

In the same vein, maybe there's a singer with a great voice but mediocre looks and an awkward personality and she's being mismanaged by an agency that doesn't really know how to promote her. Am I being shallow and superficial if I don't like her for reasons not pertaining to her music? Perhaps, but it's my money and my attention at the end of the day, and I am free to vote with my wallet and time as to who I want to support (and not support).

It's a fallacy to declare that the quality of a certain product hinges solely on a particular value just because you claim so, while disregarding every other value which you deem unimportant (but which might matter more to other people), for the simple reason that not everyone necessarily prizes these qualities in the same way that you do.

I swear by AirPods despite them having average sound quality. Does this make them poor quality products? Not to the people who purchased them for reasons other than sound quality, such as convenience and ease of use. To me, these factors matter enough that I am willing to use AirPods over a pair of better-sounding headphones.

I use my iPad heavily despite it not being a "pure computer replacement" and not being able to do a variety of stuff like code or manage pivot tables, because those are not tasks that I need to do in my line of work. Meanwhile, its greatest criticism (that it runs iOS) so happens to be the biggest draw for me, because I find myself so much more comfortable working on iOS compared to macOS or even windows (again, for the work that I do do on it).

If a product is selling well and extremely profitable for its company, I think it definitely bears attention, and credit be given where credit is due. Apple is doing extremely well, and I feel we ought to be trying to explain its success more, rather than keep trying to explain it away every time.

it's a mistake, because believing that today's profits = Product quality = Tomorrows profits is a fools errand that has led to many companies missing trends and downturns due to their own hubris.

You are also forgetting that Apple sells a lot more products than just Mac computers.

Airpods and apple watches are immensely popular. There are well over 900 million active iPhones in use. Apple just rolled out a whole slew of services to add even more value to the Apple ecosystem. It's working on smart glasses and making inroads in health and transportation.

It's very possible that even as the attention on Macs diminish, the popularity of mobile and wearable devices increase, which in turn make Apple even more successful than ever. So maybe you lose a couple of Mac enthusiasts. But in return, you gain so many more iPhone and Apple Watch users. Assuming that the apparent neglect of the Mac is by design (eg: Apple shifting more resources away from the Mac to focus on mobile), is that really such a bad thing in the greater scheme of things?

 

[PickUrPoison]

I'm sure at some point, someone typed something similar to "Apple isn’t intending to discontinue Apple ]['s for those 'Macintosh' toys."

What I’m saying is that it’s happened before and it will happen again. Things fall out of importance and only those that don’t examine history are surprised, shocked and disappointed as/when it happens.

There will be no need for you to be surprised if/when Apple discontinues the Mac. Just keep your eye on the Mac revenue stats.

The Mac has been a $20+ billion product segment for the last eight years; $25+ billion for three of the last four (2015, 2017, 2018)—the best the Mac has ever done in Apple’s history. The Mac alone is approaching the revenue of a Fortune 100 company.

When you see that number drop to the low single digit billions like the early 2000s, you might want to become a little concerned. Until then, you’re probably safe.

 

[Chapman8tor]

After waiting and waiting for my tired-since-day-one-purchased 2014 Mac Mini to be updated, I was presented with a barely adequate computer costing over $1,000?! No more Apples for me. For exactly the same money, I getting an AMD Ryzen 7 (2700) with 16GB RAM, 1660TI graphics with 6GB RAM, 120gb SSD and a 1TB HDD.

 

[PickUrPoison]

After waiting and waiting for my tired-since-day-one-purchased 2014 Mac Mini to be updated, I was presented with a barely adequate computer costing over $1,000?! No more Apples for me. For exactly the same money, I getting an AMD Ryzen 7 (2700) with 16GB RAM, 1660TI graphics with 6GB RAM, 120gb SSD and a 1TB HDD.

What they exactly were you expecting?

The 8GB/128GB SSD mini was $749 previously; the new release is priced at $799. Of course with four years between models, the new machine is a major update. Memory and storage upgrades are priced exactly the same as the iMac/MacBook lines, so that couldn’t (or at least shouldn’t) have been a surprise.

In any case, I’m sure you’ll enjoy your new computer! Personally I’d rather have the $1,000 mini, but then again I don’t need a fast GPU so a $300 graphics card has little value (to me).

 

[jdawgnoonan]

not a majority, but it's absolutely massive still. Worth billions of dollars every year.

right now, you can sort of guage the strength of the DIY builders if you look at AMD's CPU sales since they released their Ryzen platform. AMD doesn't get used in prebuilts in any large scale. Virtually the entire list of manufacturers in this list are almost exclusively Intel based (There are a few low volume AMD prbuilts, but that's about it)

In December of 2018, it was rerported that AMD was selling nearly double the CPU's to consumers that Intel was (estimated 2:1).

given above, we can make a reasonable guess that the DIY and Custom build industry for computers is quite sizable chunk that is missing from this calculation (I use CPU's as a core metric because every computer uses 1, and while it's not necessarily true 1 cpu = 1 pc, it's a close enough approximation for this comparison)

In Addition, the DIY market is often one that uses incremental upgrades instead full system replacement at regular intervals. A User in DIY might buy a PC and then upgrade it's internals for several years before replacing the "Shell". how does that count? where does that factor into the "Declining sales" of the industry?

it's a Niche market, that just so happens to be worth billions of dollars selling millions of units a year.
[doublepost=1554985464][/doublepost]

not a great comparison (the horse and buggy IMHO), as once cars came in, horse and buggies were completely obsolete as cars did everything and anything faster, better to the point that it was a full replacement.


what the "post PC" era is, is a more of a mix. Steve Jobs famously compared the PC to a Truck, when most people required simple cars. It's a good analogy because it recognises that while most people are find driving cars, there will always be the need for heavier workloads that still require that truck (for example, right now in the Apple ecosystem, you require the trucks to build the cars. You cannot build iOS apps to use in those "cars" without the mac "truck".)

this is an ecosystem that requires both the high end and low end. the desktop tower computer full powered desktops, AND the mass market devices. As long especially as we have software that continues to push power envelopes that requires more power, especially on the creation side, the traditional computer is going nowhere.

I do not question that DIY is a market that generates billions, but I also don’t believe that DIY systems would even approach being in the top 10 or even top 20 of computer makers globally. Also, a metric for chips sold directly to consumers and comparing AMD to Intel without actual numbers instead of the ratio that you gave tells you nothing at all regarding the size of the DIY market. I’m not questioning that it’s a lot of people, but I am sure still it would be quite small compared to the numbers for prebuilt systems.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

1. No Touch Bar
2. Reliable Keyboard
3. Good Genius Bar service, not out-sourced service
4. A reasonable price.

I'm hunting for a new laptop for my wife. She had a very old MBP. She wanted to buy a new one. After I told her these issues, MBP/MB/MBA isn't in our list any more.

If you are being serious and not sarcastic about Apple’s laptops, I couldn’t agree more. I wouldn’t buy one either. Too many dumb@ss design decisions that can cost the owner a lot of money if/when things go wrong through no fault of their own. You might want to check out the Lenovo ThinkPad’s. The X series and T series are great laptops. And Lenovo currently has great promo deals for Tax Day savings like up to 30% off. For the 30% discount, use promo code code THINKTAXTIME all uppercase.

I was thinking of getting the 2018 Mac Mini to replace my aging 2012 Mini but instead I am going to buy a ThinkCentre Mini computer.

 

[fairuz]

Dude. Why would I buy a new PC? They don't even get better* year-over-year anymore, especially the Macs. The MBP even got worse.

* i.e. better at doing actual tasks anyone cares about, not benchmarks, and even benchmark scores are flattening
[doublepost=1555227206][/doublepost]

1. No Touch Bar
2. Reliable Keyboard
3. Good Genius Bar service, not out-sourced service
4. A reasonable price.

I'm hunting for a new laptop for my wife. She had a very old MBP. She wanted to buy a new one. After I told her these issues, MBP/MB/MBA isn't in our list any more.

Well I love my 2015 MBP, and it matches all of those.
[doublepost=1555227313][/doublepost]

Okay so you cant show me one example of you being critical of Apple products after being a member here for 1.5 years. So much for objectivity. Proved my point, thanks.

Lol, I can't see who you're replying to, so I'm guessing it's someone I blocked for that reason

 

[Darth Tulhu]

*Sigh*.

My Macs are dying. My trusty 2011 17 MBP is finally showing the stripes at login, booting repeatedly until the OS finally loads, and any attempt to switch to high performance graphics are met with a blue screen of death.

My 2012 15 has a stripe running down the middle of the screen, that I didn't notice until I undocked it to use on the couch (it usually sits on a desk plugged into an external monitor and a mouse). This machine has gone in for repairs multiple times for trackpad issues that return after the 90-day warranty period expires. Now this screen issue.

My 2011 27" iMac has gone in multiple times for graphics issues; the last time I paid $700 to repair it because it's much less expensive than buying a new Mac, given the RAM is maxed out and I have a 2TB SSD in there (I installed myself). My kids use this machine for Final Cut heavily (they are in a visual arts school), but they've been complaining about it too. Thank God they're graduating this year. Interestingly, they want PCs as replacements. They don't want (to go back to) iPhones (we've all had Samsungs for years now). My daughter gets angry at her iPad because she wants some other software she can't get (she's a graphic artist).

8 years or so for these machines is a pretty good run, but now I'm faced with the reality that this year, if I can squeeze them for that long, will be the last year I use Apple computers.

Thanks Tim.

Thanks for making machines that cannot be upgraded down the line.
Machines that cost WAY too much upfront.
Machines that require even more money to be spent on workarounds to make them functional in the REAL world out there.
Machines that are nowhere near as reliable as they used to be.
Machines that are simply inferior to what came before.
Machines that leave working-class, technical folks like me out.
Shame. Shame. Shame.

 

[Blaze4G]

Dude. Why would I buy a new PC? They don't even get better* year-over-year anymore, especially the Macs. The MBP even got worse.

* i.e. better at doing actual tasks anyone cares about, not benchmarks, and even benchmark scores are flattening
[doublepost=1555227206][/doublepost]
Well I love my 2015 MBP, and it matches all of those.
[doublepost=1555227313][/doublepost]
Lol, I can't see who you're replying to, so I'm guessing it's someone I blocked for that reason

Lmao baymowe...I just asked him for one post since his 1.5 years on this forum where he was critical of an Apple product. He couldn't give me 1 example. Every single one of this post is defending Apple and how magical and perfect their products are.

 

[gnasher729]

Incredible amount of negativity, considering that Apple has increased its market share both world wide and in the USA.
[doublepost=1555278480][/doublepost]

Lenovo is arguably the most profitable PC company except Apple. They made less than $940 millions in profit in two quarters after a 42% increase in profit.

Let's say that Apple has 30% gross profit on their Macs, Apple would have made a profit of $3822 millions in the same period using financial 2018 has an example.

Lenove brags about having a 5% profit margin their PC business and says it is industry leading.

You can't count gross profit. "Gross profit" of say 30% means that if you decide to spend $1,000 on a Mac, Apple is $300 better off. However, it doesn't count all the cost that Apple has whether you buy the product or not. So Apple is $3822 millions better off than if they had zero sales. But with zero sales, there would obviously be a massive loss, and you need to subtract that from the $3822 millions.

 

[benny007]

Amid a decline of 4.6 percent in worldwide PC sales, Apple's Mac sales were also down 2.5 percent in the first quarter of 2019, according to new PC shipment estimates shared this afternoon by Gartner.

Apple shipped an estimated 3.98 million Macs during the quarter, down from 4.08 million in the year-ago quarter. Apple's market share grew year-over-year though, coming in at 6.8 percent, up from 6.6 percent in Q1 2018.

Gartner's Preliminary Worldwide PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 1Q19 (Thousands of Units)
​

Apple continues to be ranked as the number four PC vendor worldwide, coming in after Lenovo, HP, and Dell, but ahead of Asus and Acer. Apple also held the number four spot in the year-ago quarter.

Lenovo, HP, and Dell all saw shipments grow or remain steady, while Asus and Acer, like Apple, experienced declines. Lenovo, the number one worldwide PC vendor during the quarter, shipped 13.2 million PCs for 22.5 percent market share, while HP, a close second, shipped 12.8 million PCs for 21.9 percent market share.

Dell came in third with close to 10 million PCs shipped and 17.6 percent market share, while Asus and Acer brought up the rear with 3.6 and 3.2 million PC shipments, respectively.

Overall, there were an estimated 58.5 million PCs shipped in Q1 2019, down from 61.4 million in the year-ago quarter.

Apple's U.S. Mac shipments also declined, with Apple shipping an estimated 1.44 million Macs during the quarter, a 3.5 percent decline from the 1.5 million Macs it shipped in Q1 2018. Apple is ranked as the number four vendor in the United States, trailing behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo, but beating out Microsoft.

Gartner's Preliminary U.S. Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 1Q19 (Thousands of Units)​

HP was the top U.S. PC vendor with 3.24 million PC shipments, followed by Dell with 3.16 million and Lenovo with 1.5 million. The overall PC market in the United States saw a 6.3 percent decline compared to Q1 2018, with a total of 11 million PCs shipped.

Apple's Market Share Trend: 1Q06-1Q19 (Gartner)​

IDC also released its shipment estimates this afternoon, and is often the case, IDC's shipping estimates are different than Gartner's due to the variations in the way each firm makes shipment calculations.

IDC also suggests that overall worldwide PC shipments declined, but by just 3 percent with a total of 58.48 million PCs shipped during the quarter.

Apple is also the number four worldwide PC vendor in IDC's estimates, with IDC suggesting Apple shipped an estimated 4.058 million Macs during the quarter, a mere 0.5 percent drop from the 4.078 million Macs shipped in the year-ago quarter.

Data from Gartner and IDC is based on estimates, and while Apple used to provide specific breakdowns of Mac sales, the company is no longer doing so and there will be no way to confirm shipment estimates going forward.

These new numbers follow refreshes of both the MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air lineups, both of which were overhauled in October 2018, but come prior to the launch of updated iMacs. Apple this year has several additional Mac updates on the horizon, including a new high-end high-throughput modular Mac Pro.

Apple's Mac sales could potentially be suffering due to the negative publicity surrounding the butterfly keyboard issues in the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, a problem that has become increasingly visible due to its impact on even the newest Mac notebooks.

Article Link: Mac Shipments Down in Q1 2019 Amid Worldwide PC Decline

It's very annoying that they do not have a SD card slot or standard usb. I'm getting tied of having a long set of adapters sticking out the side of my laptop.

 

[Vilsbol]

I like mac, but it has always been so easy to feel ripped off. Take the new iMac fx - why is every upgrade costing the same (or more) than market value of the upgrade. Upgrading to the i9 processor shouldnt cost the same as buying an i9 chip...same goes for RAM, storage and the graphics. I understand that Apple wants to earn a premium (and many people - including myself - are typically willing to pay) but to go for skinning the "sheep" instead of cutting it again and again. why not go for the market shares and awesome customer experience - are they really afraid of market share?