A lot of the comments here have legitimate gripes like upgradability, thermals, touch bar usability, etc. I would put up with all of those horrible things if apple just CHANGED THE KEYBOARD.
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Mac Shipments Down in Q3 2019 Amid Overall Worldwide PC Market Growth
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Apple should read the very bitter and mostly true comments in this forum, and try some reality check here!
I have been on apple forever, but stopped upgrading.
I even got back my money of my brand new macbook pro under lemon law. (7 repairs, 3*Logicboard, otherwise Keyboard).
I'm back to a mit 2012 Macbook pro, where I was able to upgrade the disk and the memory!
I'm surprised they did not solder the CPUs and SSDs on to the mainboard of the new mac pro 7,1. But I am sure they find a way to give you a message when booting up: "this is not a genuine Apple Xeon CPU" in case you dare to upgrade. This is all just in the interest of the oh so dumb user...
I have been on apple forever, but stopped upgrading.
I even got back my money of my brand new macbook pro under lemon law. (7 repairs, 3*Logicboard, otherwise Keyboard).
I'm back to a mit 2012 Macbook pro, where I was able to upgrade the disk and the memory!
I'm surprised they did not solder the CPUs and SSDs on to the mainboard of the new mac pro 7,1. But I am sure they find a way to give you a message when booting up: "this is not a genuine Apple Xeon CPU" in case you dare to upgrade. This is all just in the interest of the oh so dumb user...
They are too expensive. Simple as that.
A UK retailer currently has the 15.6 inch HP ZBook x360 (convertible laptop) on offer at £1079; with a discount code that comes down to £999. For that you get:
- 6-core 8th gen i7 (with proper cooling)
- 8Gb non-soldered RAM, upgradeable to 64Gb
- 256Gb SSD with TWO m.2 NVMe slots available AND a SATA bay
- Touchscreen and Wacom AES pen support
- Fingerprint login and backlit keyboard
- Two USB-A, two USB-C Thunderbolt 3.1 and full-size HDMI
- Windows 10 Pro
- 3 year warranty
etc etc. After 20+ years using Macs, I'm disgusted at the pricing and current hardware - it's an overly-thin, thermal-throttling, un-upgradeable mess.
A UK retailer currently has the 15.6 inch HP ZBook x360 (convertible laptop) on offer at £1079; with a discount code that comes down to £999. For that you get:
- 6-core 8th gen i7 (with proper cooling)
- 8Gb non-soldered RAM, upgradeable to 64Gb
- 256Gb SSD with TWO m.2 NVMe slots available AND a SATA bay
- Touchscreen and Wacom AES pen support
- Fingerprint login and backlit keyboard
- Two USB-A, two USB-C Thunderbolt 3.1 and full-size HDMI
- Windows 10 Pro
- 3 year warranty
etc etc. After 20+ years using Macs, I'm disgusted at the pricing and current hardware - it's an overly-thin, thermal-throttling, un-upgradeable mess.
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Hefty overdose of denial!
That's why Apple is replacing it with scissor style again, right? No idea under which rock your are living, but did you ever come across about the news that the butterfly keyboard is failing over and over again? They even tried to redesign it twice without success.
I think you can only look at PC shipments in relation to ipad shipments.
I think their mac range is too expensive at present. There needs to be a notebook under $1000 dollars etc..
In the past you could say that a comparable laptop from DELL etc.. would be the same price as apple's. i'm not sure that is the case right now. Apple continuously over price ram and ssd upgrades as well which kind of makes a mac laptop a very expensive purchase compared to others.
Also, with so many people using web apps rather than native software it really starts to become a matter of do you like the apple brand more or not? In regards to apple laptops its starting to get a little fashion orientated.
However, Apple are also selling ipad's at very low price points that provide a lot of basic computing needs. So they have their bases covered somewhat. They may even be pushing sub $1000 laptop buyers to ipads.
I would look at the combined macbook + ipad business to see what apple is really doing. There is more overlap with macbooks and ipads than there is with ipads and iphones.
I think their mac range is too expensive at present. There needs to be a notebook under $1000 dollars etc..
In the past you could say that a comparable laptop from DELL etc.. would be the same price as apple's. i'm not sure that is the case right now. Apple continuously over price ram and ssd upgrades as well which kind of makes a mac laptop a very expensive purchase compared to others.
Also, with so many people using web apps rather than native software it really starts to become a matter of do you like the apple brand more or not? In regards to apple laptops its starting to get a little fashion orientated.
However, Apple are also selling ipad's at very low price points that provide a lot of basic computing needs. So they have their bases covered somewhat. They may even be pushing sub $1000 laptop buyers to ipads.
I would look at the combined macbook + ipad business to see what apple is really doing. There is more overlap with macbooks and ipads than there is with ipads and iphones.
My old thinkpads are still functioning after more than ten years, I have one in the shed. It needs a vacuum every 6 months but other than that it's going and going. Unbelievably good build quality looking back. MacBook Pro from 2014 is still OK but harder to maintain, but the 2017 MBP has had numerous problems from ordinary use: screen delamitation, chassis denting, keyboard issues, etc. And then the new mac mini disappointment was the last straw - a desktop computer with practically no upgradeability after purchase.
Thankfully MacOS is not leaping ahead anymore (instead going backwards somewhat) otherwise the hardware purchasing decisions going forward would be more difficult.
Great idea!
I'm surprised Jobs didn't get rid of the caps-lock key a couple of decades ago.
The caps-lock key is fine for typewriters. But for computers with fonts that can be bolded, it's useless.
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They're going to have to pry my 2015 Macbook Pro from my cold dead hands. Best computer I've ever owned. At work they gave me a new generation Macbook Pro. The thing was junk. Overheated constantly, weird battery drains, awful keyboard, and I walked around with a bunch of dongles all the time.
My typing experience on my 2017 MBP has been far superior to anything else on the market. I've been typing faster and more accurately.
I would love LOVE to get a new Apple computer. But the price difference here is just insane. There is no official online (or offline) Apple store here (Greece) and the prices are more or less whatever the main importer decides. You know the "recent" price drop in RAM and SSD upgrades for certain models? It just now came into effect, kind of.
Not counting the increased prices for all Apple computers compared to basically every other country in the EU. Nothing to do with VAT/Tax either.
And since Apple refuses to sell their computers online to other countries, I just don't see me buying one unless there are some drastic changes in pricing.
Funny thing, while you can find other shops here selling iMacs, they all, ALL, come with either stock configuration or a mix of hybrid drive and i7.
Meh.
Not counting the increased prices for all Apple computers compared to basically every other country in the EU. Nothing to do with VAT/Tax either.
And since Apple refuses to sell their computers online to other countries, I just don't see me buying one unless there are some drastic changes in pricing.
Funny thing, while you can find other shops here selling iMacs, they all, ALL, come with either stock configuration or a mix of hybrid drive and i7.
Meh.
Not surprised in the least. I love my Macs (MBA and iMac), but given that my use cases have shifted and gone back down to more general ones, it's impossible to justify the prices anymore, esp. with the QA/QC issues present in the hardware and software (I'm looking at you Catalina).
Have used W10 at work for a while now (on a Dell Optiplex - i3-7100T, RAM upgraded to 12GB) and for general use (web browsing, email, music, word processing), I can't discern much difference.
Have used W10 at work for a while now (on a Dell Optiplex - i3-7100T, RAM upgraded to 12GB) and for general use (web browsing, email, music, word processing), I can't discern much difference.
Apple makes very expensive computers...for no real reason. Lower the prices. Take advantage of all that Chinese slave labor and cut the prices 15% or 20%! lol
I am surprised it is not a greater decline. I presume they keep selling because of customer loyalty and MacOS. iMac had an outdated design. MacPro is super expensive and not yet on stores. Touch bar and butterfly keyboard on MacBooks. Super high prices. Not surprised
I have been a Mac user for 20 years. I've had a couple of PowerBooks, 3 Mac Book Pros, a couple of cheese grater Mac Pros, and a couple of iMacs.
Apple makes nothing I am interested in right now. My MacBook Pro 15 is 5 years old at this point. I've bought and returned a 2017 and 2018 MBP because I could not stand the keyboard. Now the rumor is that they're going to make a 16" (YAY!) with a scissor keyboard (YAY!). But the rumors are it will start at over $3k. I want a 15" screen. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and I hate carrying around my glasses. But I'm not paying that much for a laptop. When I paid $2600, that was excessive. But at the time, it had nVidia graphics, the fastest processor you could get, and a 512GB SSD (which was huge at the time), and a great keyboard and screen.
Now the keyboard sucks, the screen is only fair to middling compared to the competition, the SSD is puny compared to others, you can't upgrade anything at all, and the graphics, to put it mildly, suck. They're just a terrible value compared to the competition. Other than MacOS, they really have nothing to set them apart from other manufacturers and they still charge more.
In the desktop space, they make nothing I am interested in anymore. The iMac, again, is overpriced and underperforms. They have the iMac Pro, which is a beast, is appropriately priced, but there is nothing between an iMac and an iMac Pro. If they would give me a mac mini with upgradeable SSD, I would be all over it, but that box is more or less sealed.
So, I wait. I'm hoping that Apple is reasonable on the next MacBook Pro or that they come out with a 15" that fills the same space with a better keyboard.
It really feels like Mac development is on auto-pilot. MacOS is getting stale, Windows development has gotten much better, and it will never be the Year of the Linux Desktop. MacOS isn't the selling point it used to be because Apple has let it coast. At least from a feature standpoint.
But my 2014 MBP won't last forever. If it dies before Apple comes out with something I'm interested in, I'm switching. Hopefully not permanently, but at least for a couple of generations.
Apple makes nothing I am interested in right now. My MacBook Pro 15 is 5 years old at this point. I've bought and returned a 2017 and 2018 MBP because I could not stand the keyboard. Now the rumor is that they're going to make a 16" (YAY!) with a scissor keyboard (YAY!). But the rumors are it will start at over $3k. I want a 15" screen. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and I hate carrying around my glasses. But I'm not paying that much for a laptop. When I paid $2600, that was excessive. But at the time, it had nVidia graphics, the fastest processor you could get, and a 512GB SSD (which was huge at the time), and a great keyboard and screen.
Now the keyboard sucks, the screen is only fair to middling compared to the competition, the SSD is puny compared to others, you can't upgrade anything at all, and the graphics, to put it mildly, suck. They're just a terrible value compared to the competition. Other than MacOS, they really have nothing to set them apart from other manufacturers and they still charge more.
In the desktop space, they make nothing I am interested in anymore. The iMac, again, is overpriced and underperforms. They have the iMac Pro, which is a beast, is appropriately priced, but there is nothing between an iMac and an iMac Pro. If they would give me a mac mini with upgradeable SSD, I would be all over it, but that box is more or less sealed.
So, I wait. I'm hoping that Apple is reasonable on the next MacBook Pro or that they come out with a 15" that fills the same space with a better keyboard.
It really feels like Mac development is on auto-pilot. MacOS is getting stale, Windows development has gotten much better, and it will never be the Year of the Linux Desktop. MacOS isn't the selling point it used to be because Apple has let it coast. At least from a feature standpoint.
But my 2014 MBP won't last forever. If it dies before Apple comes out with something I'm interested in, I'm switching. Hopefully not permanently, but at least for a couple of generations.
2018 Macbook Air that I bought for my graduate studies this past Summer. Well, the keyboard now has problems with 'e' and 't' keys. Unbelievable. I'm furiously taking notes in classes and sometimes I have to go back over what I wrote because it is a mess. And spellcheck doesn't always find things. I dread one day finding out that I left a thee which was meant to be a the in a research paper.
I'm thinking of going back to Surface Pro for the classroom. I use a Alienware for my development box. Might as well go back to Windows. I hate my Macbook Air.
I'm thinking of going back to Surface Pro for the classroom. I use a Alienware for my development box. Might as well go back to Windows. I hate my Macbook Air.
Same my 2015 MacBook and 2017 15" MBP with Touch Bar has had no issues at all with their keyboards.
I love the butterfly switches and touch bar so much I purchased another MBP this time a 13" top spec but upgraded the ram from 8gb to 16gb.
I hope they never get rid of them. But maybe they'll let go of the butterfly switches on the next iteration.
A lot of comments about the keyboard and I haven’t had a single problem with my 2008. That should be our expectation from a keyboard.
Just look at how far we've sunk. Between a 2007 MB, 2011 MBA, and 2015 MBP, I typed at least 20,000 pages on Apple laptop keyboards before the butterflys came out, and I don't think I had a single unregistered keystroke in all that time. And yet, here we are, being pleasantly surprised that a brand new MBP keyboard hasn't failed in its first 2 months.
FYI, I'm on my 6th butterfly keyboard over 2 machines. The 2016 MBP keyboard failed every 4 months (I sold it after replacement #3), and the 2018 machine has had 2x replacements, the first two having lasted 10 months and 5 months respectively.
I remember a time when Apple tried very hard to grow its desktop computer market share. Remember when Apple used to advertise the Mac? Today Apple seems to want to kill off its Mac BU. Apple needs to update more than just laptops. Sadly, I don't think Apple is even aware that it makes anything other than mobile devices.
Not to kill off, they still bring them billions in revenue. They are just happy with the present state of Mac as it is.
They don't care what MacRumors say. Only what financial spreadsheets say.
Actually its amazing they are still selling so much given how retarded their MacOS software has got to, and their higher prices and inferior hardware.
Tim Cook treats the Mac line as an after thought, its all about services and idevices right now. The computer division to him is like Edge Browser for Microsoft.
You forgot no USB-A. I don't care how much they say it, out of all the electronics in my home I only have one device that uses USB-C, yet Apple thinks USB-A is dead.
Also, Magsafe was a feature people wanted Apple laptops for.
Tim Cook treats the Mac line as an after thought, its all about services and idevices right now. The computer division to him is like Edge Browser for Microsoft.
You forgot no USB-A. I don't care how much they say it, out of all the electronics in my home I only have one device that uses USB-C, yet Apple thinks USB-A is dead.
Also, Magsafe was a feature people wanted Apple laptops for.